Jayachamaraja Odeyar (Mysore Maharajah) - Part II

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Mar 2006, 00:03

Next bRhannAyaki- nAyaki, Adi
http://rapidshare.de/files/14517854/bRu ... i.mp3.html

DRS,
This clip was SUPERB...who is the singer? He is melodious and absolutely delightful to listen to. Is it Bangalore Shankar?
In this composition, he seems to separate the identity of brihannAyakI from that of umA/Parvati, because he says 'umA, ramA, vANyAdi sevyE'...is my understanding correct?
Ravi

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 01:46

The vocalist is RudrapaTNa R.S.Ramakant (Vid||Srikantan`s son).
As for umAramAvANyAdi, at first sight, it looks the way you see it. But it can also be separated as umA(addressing her), ramA vANyAdi sEvyE. Anyway let me post the lyric ad meanings. I will need help wih some parts. CML- watch this space.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 03:07

Yes!
like a hawk

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 04:19

mAtu of || bRhannAyaki jagadrakShaki ||

rAga- nAyaki; AditALa

bRhannnAyaki jagadrakShaki |
bRhadAnandakari tripurasundari ||P||

brahmajAtE bRhaspativanditE |
bhRgu muni sannutE bhavyacaritE ||
bRhadISvara vAmAnkasthitE SrIvidyA ShODaSAkSharahitE ||AP||

umA ramA vANyAdi sEvyE |
amAdi pUrNimAnta tithyArAdhye |
samAdhiyOga mAtra dhyEyE |
SamayamE mOhAndhakAram mAyE ||
vimalE akSharAkShara mUlE manUnAmkavayE namaH kalayE ||C||

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 04:23

Some clarification may be needed in the caraNa.

Ramakant sings "samAdhi yOga mASra dhyEye". I think this is incorrect.

Then is akSharAkSharamUlE correct. What about
"manUnAmkavayE(manUnAnkavayE) namaH kalayE" ?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 06:23

samAdhi yOga mASra dhyEye does appears to be incorrect, it must be
samAdhi yOgamASraya dhyEye. I don't know why you have 'mAtra'!
akSharAkSharamUlE = you the one who is at the root (base) of every letter sounds OK!
manUnAnkavyE = manUnAM kavyE= you the one fit to be praised (kavyA) of the (fourteen) manUs

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 07:40

Notes on || bRhannAyaki jagadrakShaki ||

rAga- nAyaki; AditALa

bRhannnAyaki; jagadrakShaki- Protectress of the universe;
bRhadAnandakari- You Who bring about great happiness;
tripurasundari.

brahmajAtE- You who begot brahma;
bRhaspati vanditE- You who are saluted by bRhaspati;
bhRgu muni sannutE- You Who are praised by Sage bhRgu;
bhavyacaritE- You with an elegant and gracious disposition;
bRhadISvara vAmAnkasthitE- You Who are present on the left thigh of bRhadISvara;
SrIvidyA; ShODaSAkSharahitE- You Who are impelled/pleased by the 16 letter mantra;

umA; ramA vANyAdi sEvyE- You who are served by lakShmi and saraswati;
amAdi pUrNimAnta tithyArAdhye- You Who are to be worshipped in the Sukla pakSha stretching from amAvAse to pOurNime(new moon to full moon);
samAdhiyOga mAtra dhyEyE- You Who can only be meditated upon/ conceived in the samAdhi yOga(among the aShTAnga yOga);
Samaya mE mOha andhakAram- Alleviate/calm the darkness of my attachment;
mAyE;
vimalE- O pure One;
akSharAkShara mUlE- The origin of every letter and speech thereof;
This can also be interpreted in a more esoteric way. akShara means imperishable/unalterable as also syllable. akSharAkShara means the unalterable syllable- Om or hrIm. She is thus the origin of OmkAra
or hrImkAra or by extension, any bIjAkShara;

manUnAmkavayE namaH kalayE- I will leave this line out as I am not sure of either the sAhitya or the meaning.

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 17 Mar 2006, 08:03

DRS and others,
Sorry for a slight digress.(I am sure I will be repremanded for that

,but nevertheless),I was able to fish out a recording of His Highness's composition in Gundakriya .I thought I would share it since it has a slightly different set of chittaswarams than the one employed in the AIR series(though the pathaantharam seems to be the same).Which of them is the authentic one?

The recording is as usual bad.I had difficulty in identifying the artiste/artistes(is it Bombay Sisters or Nagamani & party)?
The link is
http://rapidshare.de/files/15692963/Gundakriya.ra.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 09:36

OK!
My take is
samAdhiyOgaM Ashraya dhyEyE = You the One who is fit to be meditated (dhyEyA) through taking refuge (Ashraya) in the samAdhiyOgaM
(smAdhiyOga is the highest form of unification described in patanjali's aShTAnga yOga)
In addition to what you have I add,

amAdi pUrNimAnta tithyArAdhye = amA(the first day of new moon), pUrNimA (the final day of full moon) = You the one who is worshipped through the whole monthly cycle.

akSharAkSharamUlE = akSharA (the non decaying (conceived as the female principle(shakti)) + kShara (the decaying (the universe)) + mUlA (one who is the root or underlying cause) + sambhodana vibhakti

manUnAmkavayE = manUnAM (of the (fourteen Manus)) + kavi (Brahma (the originator)) + caturthi vibhakti = to you who is the primordial Brahma (originator of the Manus) (prostration (namaH)

kalayE = kali + 4th vibhakti = to you who is the 'kali yuga principle' (prosprations (namaH)).

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 17:52

amAdi pUrNimAnta tithyArAdhye = amA(the first day of new moon), pUrNimA (the final day of full moon) = You the one who is worshipped through the whole monthly cycle.

Can you give reference as to where amA= first day of new moon. I have checked the dictionaries.
Also why I think this explanation is unlikely is because in effect you are saying she is worshipped throughout the year- 24/7 and 365/12. Then the word tithi becomes redundant.
Also I think the waxing of the moon specifically alludes to her rising from mUlAdhAra to sahasrAra and becoming pUrNakalE.

akSharAkSharamUlE = akSharA (the non decaying (conceived as the female principle(shakti)) + kShara (the decaying (the universe)) + mUlA (one who is the root or underlying cause) + sambhodana vibhakti

akShara + kShara will not add up to akSharAkShara. I have also not seen akShara being treated as feminine, ths converting it to akSharA.; certainly not in oDeyar`s kRtis. However if sAhitya s taken as "akSharakSharmUlE", your interpretation could well be right.

manUnAmkavayE = manUnAM (of the (fourteen Manus)) + kavi (Brahma (the originator)) + caturthi vibhakti = to you who is the primordial Brahma (originator of the Manus) (prostration (namaH)

kalayE = kali + 4th vibhakti = to you who is the 'kali yuga principle' (prosprations (namaH)).

The whole of the kRti addresses her in sambOdhanA vibhakti. Why would the caturthI make a sudden and jarring entry in the very last line?
Referring to her as the kali principle does not fit into the larger picture of this kRti. She is the jagadrakShaki here.

[a related doubt in vyAkaraNa, although being masculine, due to reference to female deity, will kavi and kali not be declined as feminine(to kavyai and kalyai)?]

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 17 Mar 2006, 18:46

My 2 cents:

In Lalitha Sahasranamam, there is a nama "Pratipanmukhya Rakanta Tithi Mandala Pujitha".

Here, Pratipan means the day one, Prathama, the next tithi after Amavasya or Pournamasya. But in Srividya, it is commonly taken as
after Amavasya.

Rakanta, when split up is raka + anta. Raka refers to the full moon and therefore, Rakanta should mean end of full moon, which is Amavasya. So, AFAIK, the nama should mean "She who is worshipped from the Prathama Thithi (of the Shukla paksha) up until Amavasya." Since this period starts from Amavasya and ends in Amavasya, it becomes a mandala or a circle. So CML's deductions could be correct.

There's something else too that I would like to tell here. In Srividya, the usual panchanga is not used. Instead, there is something called Devimana Ashtanga Ganitham. While Panchanga has Tithi, Vara, Nakshatra, Yoga and Karanam as its parameters, Ashtanga has Yuga, Parivritta, Varsha, Masa, Dina, Tithi, Vara, and Ghatika. I really don't know of what use this could be. Just giving it as a FYI since probably something could be made out from this.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 18:59

In Lalitha Sahasranamam, there is a nama "Pratipanmukhya Rakanta Tithi Mandala Pujitha".

Here, Pratipan means the day one, Prathama, the next tithi after Amavasya or Pournamasya. But in Srividya, it is commonly taken as
after Amavasya.

Rakanta, when split up is raka + anta. Raka refers to the full moon and therefore, Rakanta should mean end of full moon, which is Amavasya. So, AFAIK, the nama should mean "She who is worshipped from the Prathama Thithi (of the Shukla paksha) up until Amavasya." Since this period starts from Amavasya and ends in Amavasya, it becomes a mandala or a circle. So CML's deductions could be correct.

Thanks for the wealth of info Darshan.
Your interpretation of rAkAnta is incorrect. rAkAnta means upto the rAkA/full moon as its end i.e ending with rAkA. It is similar to "pAdAdi kESAnta".
That reference to the sahasranAma clinched it. I just referred to the explanation and for
"pratipanmukhyarAkAnta tithimaNDala pUjitA"

The explanation is "Her Who is worshipped in the maNDala of 15 tithis from pratipat to pUrNimA. ". During the 15 days of SuklapakSha, She is worshipped in the form of the nityAdEvates starting with kAmESvari and ending with citrA.
So my interpretation is correct.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 17 Mar 2006, 20:01

Thanks, DRS, for the clarifications. Great explanation.

CML, can you please explain the reason behind associating akshara with the feminine principle?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 17 Mar 2006, 22:19

http://rapidshare.de/files/15729595/01- ... Nayaki.mp3

by tns

http://rapidshare.de/files/15732021/02- ... Nayaki.mp3

by trs

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 22:35

coolkarni
Thanks for the nAyaki pieces. The varNa by rudrapaTNa venkaTarAmayya in khaNDa tripuTa is a classic in itself. (mudre- dharmapuri which is a paryAya nAma for rudrapaTNa). TNS`s rendition added beauty to the piece.
nAyaki canot be complete without ranganAyakam. Please post it as also other lesser known kRtis in the rAga.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 22:47

Coolkarni
There is something wrong with the TRS -kanugonu. pallavi missing.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 22:53

nAyaki is a janya of the 22nd mELa- SrI/kharaharapriya. Although no explicit bhAShAnga swaras occur, due to the occurrence of jAru gamaka on N and G, it has been called a bhAShAnga rAga.

The SSP gives a krama sampUrNa ArOhaNa and avarOhaNa for the rAga.
As is sung today, the rAga`s scale is

SR2M1PD2/N2,DPS* | S*D/N,DPMR/G2,RS ||

The N and G are sung/played with a characteristic jAru from D and R respectively. N and G are the jIvaswaras.It is a dESIya rakti rAga that shines well particularly during the evening time. It is best rendered in viLambakAla.
oDeyar has however brought out the beauty of the rAga in the madhyama
kAla in this kRti.

The similarity between this rAga and darbAr is well known. The rAga evokes dainya and some SOka. It is well suited for SRngAra padas.

A link to the carnatica newsletter on darbAr which explores some similarities with nAyaki.

http://www.carnatica.net/newsletter/dur ... letter.htm

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:13

Can you give reference as to where amA= first day of new moon. I have checked the dictionaries

Look up Apte (student dictionary)
amA... -f 1 The day of the new moon, the day of the conjunction of the sun and moon.
Hence
amA+Adi pUrNimA+anta tithy= starting from New Moon to Full Moon ending lunar days (tithy)

Your explanation

Also I think the waxing of the moon specifically alludes to her rising from mUlAdhAra to sahasrAra and becoming pUrNakalE.

is poetic and esoteric but how do we connect 'amA' with the mUlAdhAra?

(Darshan note the following too!)
akShara means undecaying/eternal. This is akaarantam pumlingam. The feminine (as it applies to dEvI) is formed as akSharA (TAp affix).
Hence akSharA is the eternal AdiparAshakti, whereas kShara denotes the ephemeral universe. Naturally akSharA +kShara = akSharakShara (samAhAradvandva)

Also according to Devi Bhagavtam Adi parAshakti is the creator of the whole universe including the Trinity.. She trifurcated to become, umA raMA and vANI and hence Shankar was correct!

It is not necessary for the whole lyric to be interpreted in the sambhOdhana. It is structured as:

hE bhagavti! tubhyaM namaH

Also note that kavi and kali are masculines declined like hari! They will remain the same (not become kavI or kalI when used to qualify women). The ikaarantam (hrisvam) are optionally declined like hari!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:21

Can you give reference as to where amA= first day of new moon. I have checked the dictionaries
Look up Apte (student dictionary)
amA... -f 1 The day of the new moon, the day of the conjunction of the sun and moon.
Hence
amA+Adi pUrNimA+anta tithy= starting from New Moon to Full Moon ending lunar days (tithy)

Your explanation
Also I think the waxing of the moon specifically alludes to her rising from mUlAdhAra to sahasrAra and becoming pUrNakalE.

is poetic and esoteric but how do we connect 'amA' with the mUlAdhAra?

Exactly Aptesays- "day of the new moon".
How did you euate that to 1st day. Poetic or otherwise, I have already given sufficient explanation to show my interpretation of 15 days of SuklapakSha is correct. It only need a little bit of imagination and extension to relate the waxing of moon to rising of kuNDalini. If you are trying to equate amA to mUlAdhAra and pourNami to sahasrAra, that is probably carrying an analogy too far.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:24

(Darshan note the following too!)
akShara means undecaying/eternal. This is akaarantam pumlingam. The feminine (as it applies to dEvI) is formed as akSharA (TAp affix).
Hence akSharA is the eternal AdiparAshakti, whereas kShara denotes the ephemeral universe. Naturally akSharA +kShara = akSharakShara (samAhAradvandva)

If akSharA is the eternal AdiparASakti, She is akSharA herself. She cannot be Her own origin. It Should then be akSharEkSharamUlE.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:38

Also according to Devi Bhagavtam Adi parAshakti is the creator of the whole universe including the Trinity.. She trifurcated to become, umA raMA and vANI and hence Shankar was correct!

A very plausible explanation that occured to me too. I was however won over by various interpretations of umA. Please quote the reference from dEbibhAgavatam as I am unable to fnd it.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:41

http://rapidshare.de/files/15729595/01- ... Nayaki.mp3
by tns

Is this Poochi's varNam? Lakshman, can we have the lyrics, please.
Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:42

ha ha!
When one becomes two you do not ignore the unchanging original. When mother gives rise to a child they count as two coming from the original mother! It is semantics! Also refer to viShNusahasranama for 'kSharamakSharaM' for AcArya's explanation!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:46

Keep your chuckles to yourself CML. I know the explanatio for kSharamakSharam. I certainly did not know that the mother is her own mother. haha indeed.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:46

Deleted duplicate.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 17 Mar 2006, 23:47

You are contradicting yourself in your interpretation of the last line. If the format had been of "hE bhagavati tubhyam namaH", i would not have questioned it. But You are applying the caturthI vibhakti pratyayas which is what I take issue with. I have not come across sch formations in CM and not in any other of oDeyar`s kRtis either

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 00:11

DRS

I dont have the original text with me. The prathamaskandam has the 'vedastuti' of parAshakti. I quote:
....
brahmaA haraH shouri sahasranEtrE
vAyvagni sUryAH bhuvanAdhinAthAH
tE tvat k^RitAH santi tatO na mukhyAH
...
Hence she is the origin of the trimurti as well as all the devas including the vedas. Somewhere the story of her trifurcation also is described but I have no access to original text now!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 00:47

http://rapidshare.de/files/15729595/01- ... Nayaki.mp3
by tns
Is this Poochi's varNam? Lakshman, can we have the lyrics, please.
Ravi

The varNa is by rudrapaTNa venkaTarAmayya whose mudre is dharmapuri(rudra paTNA) as I already mentioned.

Here is the lyric

sarasijAkSha ninne kOri
marulu konnadira ||P||
satya dharmapurivAsAdhISa
SrI manjunAtha ||AP||

ettugaDe pallavi
marubArikOrvanurA |

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 00:58

DRS

I was chuckling at myself for having missed your 15 day cycle. It does require a stretch of imagination to make it thirty. But if the two end points are defined then the whole cycle is defined. You are connecting the end points using a straight line and I am using a circle that is all!

Now look at the lyric construction:

he mAyE, etc etc (all sambhodanas)! namaH manUnAmkavayE kalayE
The karma (namaH) requires a caturti object for attribution! In the previous line he has used 'mE' which can be interpreted as in 4th or 6th vibhakti! So what is peculiar in these constructions. CM lyrics are legitimate sanskrit lyrics too!

The eternal splits as eternal and the ephemeral. Hence the eternal is the origin of both! where is the paradox?

Is duritakaalam rendering unusual in Nayaki? (will it be confused with darbat?)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 01:30

mE is used in the ShaShTI sense as applied to mOhAndhakAram in the composer/singer. Thus the sambOdhane is still retained intact as far as the deity is concerned by asking her to "Samaya".

Just that change of vibhaktis, particularly sudden and easily avoidable ones are hardly seen, if any, in CM.

drutakAla is much less common in nAyaki for the reason you have expressed. It is not unknown though. It is best to keep the identity intact without confusing the averagel-informed listener.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 01:49

Having listened t the kRti again, my wife and I both feel that the last line is

manUnAnkavacE namaH kalayE |

manUnAm kavacE means "You Who are a protecting armour for the manus"(as described in the dEvI bhAgavata).

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 02:18

SamayamE mOhAndhakAram mAyE

Here it is more logical to consider mE to be in the 4th vibhakti (based on some discussions in Siddhanta Kaumadi)
shamaya =(imperative mood) you allay or put out ( note the dhatu 'sham' is used in parasmai pada only!)
mOhAndhakAram = mOhEna janita andhakAram (darkness/ignorance produced by delusion)(2nd vibhakti i.e., direct object of 'allay')
mE = to me (4th vibhakti indirect object of 'allay')

When you take 'mE mOhAndhakAram' as my delusion-induced-darkness the recipient (phalaprdhaana) is missing! (note that in the camakaprashnam the mE (to me) is a vital part of the invocation!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 02:31

I just listened to it:

he sounded like
'manUnAMkavaca namaH kalayE'

That makes sense too! Note kavacaM is akaaraanta neutre gender and in vocative will be just kavaca which is what he sings!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 02:36

Now Now. Dont bring in a new controversy You had not even noticed it and now when we bring it to everyones notice, you come up with an alternate version!

He sings kavacE only and you will have to take that from me (You know why

)

Now kavaca is masculine gender (Look up Apte et al).
CML
You do have the knack of throwing your sanskrit knowledge around to your advantage

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:03

OK!
Don't believe my ears!
Listen!
http://rapidshare.de/files/15755060/kavaca1.mp3.html

Any volunteers (with unimpaired hearing

)to resolve our conflict

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:08

OK!

I give up!

Even my wife has ruled in your favour

Alas!

But it is unusual to form feminie words like kavacA from essntially neutre words like kavacam (Of course dictionary gives both masculie/neutre)!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:08

CML
Hats off to your perseverance. BUT it is still kavacE only.

"mukkaNNanE Aguga. neTRikkaN tirappinum kuTRam kuTRaE"

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:11

Hurray!
Much obliged to you MrsNarayanan.

Supreme courtlerndu vanduDutu. ippo appeale kiDaiyAdu.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 03:22

chuckle to your heart content at a handicapped old man

There is an approach claiming darbar as male nAyaki as female (raga/ragini) concept. Is there any merit in it from raga evolution aspect!

coolkarni/badri/kartik/others;

Does nAyaki have a HM conterpart?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Mar 2006, 07:40

Having listened t the kRti again, my wife and I both feel that the last line is

manUnAnkavacE namaH kalayE |

It is now my turn to do some careful sharp listening! He sings

manUnAnkavacE namaH kala*ya*yE |

So it is not appropriate to invoke 'kali' here!
The word has to be in caturti to be grammatically correct which leads to 'kalayi'.
No such word in the dictionary! But kalaya means one or that which counts or depend on (eg., deva deva kalayAmi (svAti))
So the feminine is formed as 'kalayi' (why not kalayA or kalayI which will lead to kalayAyai or kalayyai; but that is not the way I (hear

) him sing!)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 18 Mar 2006, 07:51

CML
I am immersed in another rAga now .

So you cannot lure me to listen to nAyaki again now. But I will say this, being madhyamakAla, there is no more space than for kalayE and thats how he sings. I am not invoking any vibhakti here as I am not sure that part has been rendered correctly. Even if it has been, I am not interpreting it.

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 19 Mar 2006, 01:33

Well, How to resolve this friendly banter!

DRS d/l

http://rapidshare.de/files/15831338/nAyaki.pdf.html

And hope it will help both CML and DRS have their own chuckle too !

Also to add to Sudrashan?s & CML's eulogies on oDeyar:

d/l

http://rapidshare.de/files/15587565/jcr ... a.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/15506206/jcr ... a.mp3.html

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 02:00

Raja Chandra
haha. I am chuckling indeed. Thans a ton. This is exactly what I had been wanting. Anyway this helps in clearing things. Frineds, the version I originally posted is in complete and perfect agreement with what Raja Chandra has posted. So stick to it.

The interpretation of the last line will be

"Her Who is brahma/creator/preceptor of the manus. Salutation to that kali"
For reasons mentioned earlier, here I would interpret kali as "the Only One" as kali symbolically means One rather than as the vice of the kaliyuga.
(CML This is in a different vibhakti from the rest of the song. I am happy for you that you were right at least on one count

)

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 02:06

------
There is an approach claiming darbar as male nAyaki as female (raga/ragini) concept. Is there any merit in it from raga evolution aspect!----

If any, I am not aware. The rAgas however are connected from the evolutionary aspect. This is the opinion of schoilars.

coolkarni/badri/kartik/others;

Does nAyaki have a HM conterpart?

You spoke my mind. I am eager to know as well.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Mar 2006, 04:29

DRS

At least you conceded the vibhakti change

(I dedicate it to Panini

)
Now I am totally in the dark. Are we still covered with a 'kavaca' or kalaya

Pl post the text of last line in Roman script!

RC

Do help! You are a life saver

The Raga/Ragini concept is essentially HM. It is hearsay that I was told Nayaki was the ragini and Darbar the 'Naayaka'. I am sure JC must be well aware of these concepts in his choice of the ragas.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 04:49

manUnAm kavayE namaH kalayE |

As for nAyaki and darbAr, there is no doubt that the former sounds feminine and the latter masculine. One does not have to be aware of the rAga-rAgiNi concept to experience this. But I am not aware of these 2 being specifically paired in the texts.

And also rAga-rAgiNi concept is not entirely HM`s. puruSha rAgas paired with particular strI rAgas was very much there in CM.

sriucl · Post by **sriucl** » 19 Mar 2006, 17:04

[d/l

http://rapidshare.de/files/15587565/jcr ... a.mp3.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/15506206/jcr ... a.mp3.html[/quote]

Nice Varnam and Thillana..

Can someone help with the lyrics for these..It is a bit diffcult to decipher the words from this recording.

Thanks

Srivathsan

Raja Chandra · Post by **Raja Chandra** » 19 Mar 2006, 21:37

DRS /CML

Just a passing thought:

In Muthuswami Dikshitar's navavarna kRitis :kamalAmbikAyai in rAga kAmbhOji, a similar sounding word manUkOnAyai is used. There obviously the reference is to the Chakra containing fourteen Konas or triangles ! Any chance the same was the intention of the composer here also but the word got distorted as no one has seen the original ?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 21:55

Raja Chandra
Good thinking. I also thought on those lines. So far I have been unable to make a connection. Distortion of sAhitya is very much possible as we have seen in some other kRtis. It may well be that there is no change of vibhakti at all in this kRti`s case.

What was te source for all these AIR series?- I mean for the kRti mAtu and dhAtu. Wonder if that can be accessed. If it is with Sri.S.Krishnamurthy, it may not be accessiblle at all.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 19 Mar 2006, 22:02

The padavarNa(madhukauns) and tillAna(vAsanti) by Vid||Nagmani Srinath (composed and rendered) were nice. Clarity was so-so

Could not make out the lyrics at all.
Can you give more details of the recording? (programme, venue, date etc).