Palghat T.S. Mani Iyer

advaitin · Post by **advaitin** » 05 Jan 2012, 17:52

thathwamasi. good one

. Would like to hear that particular song if it is ok to share. In the meanwhile, let me see if I can rustle up
something else in misram, during a tani as well as while playing for the swara renditions.

http://www.mediafire.com/?uk3oua916dcimou

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 06 Jan 2012, 11:41

@advaitin - Thanks for that clip.

Here it is.

http://www.mediafire.com/?61f5mfc52do92vi

Regards
T

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 20 Jan 2012, 12:04

Memorial for the maestro
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2814124.ece

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 20 Jan 2012, 21:36

Folks.Here is the celebration detail.Please try to attend.The highlight is going to be the release of a new CD--unique in the sense that it is a virtual 'clinic' on how to accompany for Varnam,krithi,Neraval,swaram--handpicked (from various recordings over his life)--by a team consisting of Palghat Rajamony(son),P.C.Ramakrishna and my brother M.S.Sekhar(both disciples of PMI)-I have seen the list of the concerts/artists from which these execrpts have been compiled--I can assure you it is a veritable feast-- Do buy the CD when released.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Palghat T.S.Mani Iyer Centenary 2012 Committee
invites you to the
Centenary Celebrations of ~:. Mridangam Vidwan Palghat T.S.Mani Iyer
, and release of a special audio CD album of the Maestro ,
at 6.30 pm on Saturday, January 28th 2012 at the The Music Academy, Chennai.
Chief Guest, Sri Gopalkrishna Gandhi, former Governor of West Bengal
Key Sponsors -Sri P.Vijaykumar Reddy and Smt. Preetha Reddy
Co-Sponsors -Sri R.Thyagarajan Sri Nalli Kuppuswamy Chetty Sri Venu Srinivasan
Programme Overleaf
.'
Programme
9.30am to 12.30pm : Technical Sessions
Vidwan Sri T.K. Murthy speaks on Palghat Mani Iyer's greatness Presentation by Sri T.R.Rajamani
(Son and disciple of Palghat Mani lyer)
Presentation by Sri T.R.Rajaram
(Son of Palghat Mani l yer)
Group discussion
6.30pm:
Invocation -Sri Palghat Ramaprasad
Tributes -Vidwan Sri T.N.Krishnan Vidwan Sri Lalgudi Jayaraman Vidwan Sri Vellore Ramabhadran Dr. C.V.Krishnaswami
Honouring of the disciples of Palghat Mani Iyer Release of special audio CD album Address by the Chief Guest, Sri Gopalkrishna Gandhi Vote of thanks
followed by a unique Mrida.,gam solo in Thayambaka style by Sangitha Kalanidhi Dr.Umayalpuram K.Sivaraman

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 21 Jan 2012, 10:37

Brilliant Line up of events. Should make it

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 26 Jan 2012, 18:00

Links from "The Hindu" Archives on the Mridangam Maestro
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2834299.ece

randomhari · Post by **randomhari** » 27 Jan 2012, 04:05

See Thyambaka here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCj8lXEue8M

no wonder why PMI was influenced by this.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 27 Jan 2012, 21:36

Cienu/Forumites: FYI--the function @ MA is Sat 28th Jan .Nice archives--the FIRST attempt by Hindu Publisher Balaji(who is the Chairperson for the centenary celebs and a devout admirer of PMI). My brother tells me(he is one of the committee members) that K.Balaji has the BEST ALL-ROUND collection of PMI that eeven PMI's sons do not have--most of the selections in the CD to be released are from his collections. CD is a must buy(I have no commercial interest in publishing this!!!)--
One of the archives carries PMI's views on Vocalists Pitch--that affected his playing very much --the progressive degradation of pitch by vocalists aided and abetted by the Mike--he had great difficulty in accompanying younger stalwarts(during his time) like MDR--while he had high regard for MDR's Vidwath,sincerity and dedication,he simply could not produce the sounds that he wanted given MDR's low sruthi(half Kattai)--he used to describe in a lighter vein--in Tamil translated --"I felt I had just removed my mridangam soaked in well water !!!

I am not a mridangist but after hearing the several snippets of the CD to be released, I have to say unambiguosly that PMI's Meettu Chapu Suddham and Nadam is yet to be equaled with all due respects to the TKM/UVS/TS et al.

Kambhoji · Post by **Kambhoji** » 28 Jan 2012, 20:14

The beauty of PMI's mridangam sound is that even with no stereo or other acoustics, the sound of the mridangam is just so phenomenal. One can listen to the old recordings (recorded often with poor acoustics) on computer with no stereo and one can immediately recognize his playing. Just pure bliss. No other mridagam artist present or past could replicate that sound. The Late C. V. Raman was so fascinated by the sound of PMI mridangam that he sought to analyze the physics of sound and published papers!
The unique style of his playing is also because he believed that only Kappi mridangam can produce authentic thari kita thom. His playing also invoked lot of "azhutham" and the tonal quality of the mridangam is also because of his ability to deploy his shoulder muscles while playing. As Sri Palghat Raghu would remark, he was just like God playing mridangam!

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 28 Jan 2012, 20:53

Kambhoji wrote:The Late C. V. Raman was so fascinated by the sound of PMI mridangam that he sought to analyze the physics of sound and published papers!

C V Raman's investigation about the mridangam (and in fact its cousins like the tabla, etc.) had nothing to do with PMI and everything to do with a general physicist's curiosity about the acoustics of musical instruments, particularly a physicist with a taste for Carnatic music. Here's a list of all papers published by C V Raman on the subject:

* Musical drums with harmonic overtones , Nature (London), 104 500 (1920).
* The acoustical knowledge of the ancient Hindus , Asutosh Mookerjee Silver Jubilee Volume 2 179-185 (1922).
* Musical instruments and their tones , Handbuch der Physik, 8 354-424 (1927).
* The Indian musical drums , Proc. Indian Acad. Sci. A1 179-188 (1935).

As can be seen, the first publication, which contains a lot of experimental observations about the harmonics of the valandarai, was in 1920 when PMI had not yet made his concert debut and was still a talented but completely unknown kid in Palakkad. Even the last paper, published in 1935 was just around when the old generation of Azhaganambi Pillai and Dakshinamoorthy Pillai gave way to the new phenomenon on the block that was PMI.

My point is that while idolizing our heroes, it would be good to be as factual as we can. Otherwise we'll be propagating myths and untruths.

Kambhoji · Post by **Kambhoji** » 28 Jan 2012, 22:12

"My point is that while idolizing our heroes, it would be good to be as factual as we can. Otherwise we'll be propagating myths and untruths."

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2834201.ece

It is true that Sir C. V. Raman published the first paper in 1920. From my interactions with others, my statement about some of his later papers is based upon what I heard from his contemporaries and information passed on to their generations. I was not born in that era. There is no intention to about propagate myths and untruths.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 30 Jan 2012, 14:21

Kambhoji, I don't know why the article from the Hindu by Sriram Parasuram is cited. It makes no reference to C V Raman or anything else that's unverifiable. Most of us did not live in that era but it still behooves us to write only those things that we're sure of. As for his "later papers", I quote below from the conclusion of the last published paper on the subject that C V Raman wrote, "Indian musical drums , Proc. Indian Acad. Sci. A1 179-188 (1935)":

"...The paper gives a detailed description of the results obtained by the author in the year 1919..."

There's no reference anywhere to which artists' collaboration Raman might have sought to do the experiments. Perhaps it is somebody local in Calcutta where Raman lived at the time.

It is a fascinating paper that describes, among other things, the differences in the modes of vibration between a chappu and an arai chappu qualitatively but in technical language. For me it clarified exactly why the arai chappu generates the second harmonic or the mel Sa compared to the the normal chappu. For those interested:

http://www.mridangam.info/~chidu/cvraman/cvr-ias.html

Kambhoji · Post by **Kambhoji** » 30 Jan 2012, 20:14

As stated before, what I have written regarding PMI and Sir CVR is based on my interactions with his later disciples. I did not consider it necessary to verify whether what was told to me was absolute truth since there are certain things that you can only trust but not verify especialy certain historial events. And I am not a physicist. And Rasikas forum is not a scientific journal.
There is no question that Sir CVR published his first paper on the subject in 1919. But, if one reads the numerous commentaries on PMI (like the Hindu article I cited as an example), it is clear that he gave mridangam a special status that it has today. And it would appear to be logical to think (like I did) that physicists like Sir CVR may have been inspired by mridangists including PMI and others especially considering the fact PMI was beginning to make a mark very early in his childhood (PMI was born in 1912). The website dedicated to PMI has many interesting anecdotes going back to his early days.

http://palghatmaniiyer.org/

I could be wrong that Sir CVR was inspired by PMI for that matter by anyone who played the instrument including Dakshinamoorthy piallai or Azhakanambi Pillai. It is possible that Sir CVR was inspired by just the way the mridangam was structured and perhaps he may even been inspired by the artisans who built the instrument. And in scientific publications, Sir CVR just focused on the science of sound and not write about who inspired him to research on it. He may not have been interested in CM for that matter. I dont know. May be there are others who may have more knowledge about this.

Although not a physicist, my own curiosity about mridangam was triggered by its definition "The mridangam is a double-sided drum whose body is usually made using a hollowed piece of jackfruit wood about an inch thick" and my question to the mridangists I interacted with was whether and how the vibrations produced by the hitting the left side travel to the valanthalai and vice versa in a hollow body. I was also curious whether the vibration traveled straight through the hollow body or whether it did reflect off the walls and whether this had any effect on the tonal quality of the mridangam. This was what led to PMI and Sir CVR etc.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 31 Jan 2012, 05:01

And I am not a physicist. And Rasikas forum is not a scientific journal.

Kamboji, While these may both be true, we cannot make up apocryphal stories. It may well have been that PMI inspired CVR, but we have no evidence of that in anything that you have cited (written or hearsay). I still do not see how the description of the double-headed drum in the last paragraph led you uniquely to PMI.

I appreciate your intentions and even your admiration of PMI, but we need to be more careful in reporting history. As Uday warns, making up myths (which is a huge problem in our oral history and culture that is so fond of obsequiousness) does not add to or diminish value from greats like PMI or CVR.

He may not have been interested in CM for that matter. I dont know. May be there are others who may have more knowledge about this.

Please keep in mind that Sir CVR's family has been involved in CM for a long time. This interest is seen even in the following generation. For e.g, Smt Vidya Shankar (sister of the other Nobel laureate Subramanyam Chandrasekar and niece of CVR) was a noted vainika and musicologist.

My grandfather (Sri Kalpathi Ramanathan, PMI's first disciple) was very close to PMI in the 1920s and early 30s. To the best of my knowledge, he did not describe any functional relationship between CVR's research and PMI. It is highly unlikely that later disciples of PMI (do you mean the generation of Tanjore Ramadas/P Sreenivasan or even the earlier generation Sri Kamalakar Rao) would have any better knowledge of this interaction that took place when they were possibly toddlers, if that.

That said, the only people I know that have studied the harmonics of the arrai-chapu since CVR are Sri UKS in collaboration with Dr. T. Ramasami (formerly of CLRI, Chennai and the Dept of Science & Technology). However, much of their work has focussed on how to achieve the ideal arrai-chapu harmonic with a variety of synthetic/polymer-based materials. I attended an excellent lec-dem on theirs at KGS in Dec 2010. It is so much easier doing an FFT in 2010 than in 1919, that's for sure.

More details here: http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article911305.ece and http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/articl ... epage=true and http://www.mridangams.com/2007/08/scien ... angam.html

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 31 Jan 2012, 06:51

Re: the remark about "myths" and exaggerations. PMI himself in one of his speeches acknowledged this:
PMI was talking about great mridangam Artists in the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth Century.
One of them was Tanjore Narayanaswami Appa about whom legend grew "exponentially". PMI said he had only heard of Narayanaswami Appa but never heard him play. he narrates an incident--which PMI believed to be true--it appears when Narayanaswami Appa visited Ramanathapuram, the Maharaja(Ramanathapuram) heard about his fame and sent an invitation to visit the Palace so that the Raja could have an opportunity to hear him. It was a Friday I believe. Narayanaswami Appa politely declined saying that on Friday he has his usual Bhajans and if the King so desires he is welcome to attend.
PMI while saying this illustrates how principled Narayanswami Appa was in not going after Sanmanams,we should not go overboard--one of the myths was that he used to wear his Silk Dhoti in such a manner that the border would be touching the floor/road when he walks,but he would not bend to pick the end up lest the soft hands become 'rough"( in Tamil Kaikku Mridutvam-softness- Poi Vidum") if it touches the ground.

PMI ended the anecdote saying in Tamil " Konjamai Nadandadai mihai Paduthi Solluva)( people will exaggerate small incidents to glorify the person)! Also in jest he said "Some people say a Mridangist played like Nandikeswarar--we do not know if these people ever heard Nandikeswarar play!!!".

Another remarkable quality of PMI is his down-to-earth philosophy. My father used to say, PMI felt that after the concert when sycophants come rushing to express their appreciation and go overboard, his advice was in Tamil--Ullangaiyile EEram poradukku munne sanmanathai vangi kondu medayile irundu poyidanam("Before the sweat on the palm dries up-- take your remuneration and exit the stage!!).

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 31 Jan 2012, 15:52

Dear Uday_Shankar, Kambhoji and Mahavishnu

After reading the above posts, I have to say my view on this. Yes. Dr. C V Raman published his papers prior to his interaction with PMI. But Im sure Kambhoji's intention was not to spread myths. Sometimes facts get dissolved. For example, in the above post, its mentioned that in 1920, PMI hasn't even made his concert debut, which was untrue. I clarified it with PMI family. He made his debut in 1919, accompanying an artist named Kochammal. Now I will not accuse whoever wrote about 1920 as spreading myths and untruth. It was a simple mistake.

Regarding CVR and PMI interactions, the peak of these interactions were in 1940's and 1950's when PMI went to Bangalore, exclusively for assisting CVR's research. CVR is a very big admirer of PMI's mridangam playing and has also said that PMI has the perfect technique to extract the best sound of the instrument. And CVR also acknowledged that PMI was the first to actually sculpt the inner walls of the mridangam in the same shape as the outer wall,which earlier used to be different: i.e. the inner wall was just a cylinder. And also said that being a Non-Physicist, PMI had the intuition to conceive of a sound which would be enriched by changing this mechanics.

All the above mentioned information in my post are authenticated by the family of Palghat Mani Iyer. I confirmed it with them over the phone before posting it here.

Regards
T

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 31 Jan 2012, 16:59

thathwamasi,

Thanks for the clarification.

My apologies to kamboji - I am definitely guilty of insinuating that he was spreading myths.

Facts may get "dissolved" but it is still not good idea to interchange cause and effect. The cause for CVR's interest in and interactions with PMI was his inherent interest mridangam and tabla. It was not, as kamboji has insinuated, as if PMI triggered this interest and caused him to publish all those papers. Read the papers, they emphasize equally the parallel universe of the tabla. The later interactions with PMI were an interesting sequel to his original researches.

If I hadn't raised this issue, and you had not verified with the PMI family, we would not have had this level of clarity in this matter. And such clarity is very important to those of us who dwell a little in the world of science and a little in the world of music.

And I apologize to all concered for spreading the "myth" that he had not yet made his concert debut in 1920. I usually don't spread myths and I am very open to being proven wrong

.

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 31 Jan 2012, 17:15

hahaha @uday_shankar - Amen.

I completely agree with you on the issue of clarity. It is very true that CVR and his interests in Mridangam predates PMI. I enjoyed your tongue in cheek last paragraph.

Regards
T

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 31 Jan 2012, 19:59

Regarding CVR and PMI interactions, the peak of these interactions were in 1940's and 1950's when PMI went to Bangalore, exclusively for assisting CVR's research.

That makes a lot of sense in the historical context. For the record, CVR did not publish anything on the mridangam after 1935, that is not to say that he did not experiment on the topic after that ...

Thathwamasi, thank you for taking the time to clarify things with the PMI family. As Uday already pointed out, we have much more clarity on this by being more diligent.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 31 Jan 2012, 22:53

mahavishnu wrote:I still do not see how the description of the double-headed drum in the last paragraph led you uniquely to PMI

Ramesh, I find myself in the strange role of coming to kamboji's rescue

. You're the mrdangam expert but here's my non-mrdangist speculation - for me Palghat Mani Iyer's playing represents one of the most balanced use of the thoppi and valandharai. Right from his finishing act of tuning up with that characteristic "dhu-doom dhu-doom dhu-doom", it's the stuff of goosebumps. It is this particular distinctive tone, the deep thoppi followed instantaneously by the nam (I hope I'm using the right term), echoed to some extent by Raghu sir who developed his own unique tone and style, that immediately distinguishes the "Mani Iyer tone" to lay ears and makes everyone sit up in awe. So back to the "double-headed hollow drum" - as a mridangam player, does any operation on the thoppi affect the tonality of the valandharai in obvious and/or subtle ways ?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 01 Feb 2012, 03:32

Uday, the "thom" sound (non-damped full strike on the base of the thoppi) is played without reference to valanthalai in the Tanjore school. When producing this sound, the two hands are not independently controlled, but their movements are not phase-locked in any way.

But the same sound is represented in combination with the valanthalai in the Pudukkottai school. So, even playing "tha thi thom nam" in the Pudukottai school requires bimanual action. Trichy Sankaran considers this to be the paradigmatic difference in technique between the two schools. See this clip from his last year's demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U6M5elXYvQ (it is only visible to those with this link).

does any operation on the thoppi affect the tonality of the valandharai in obvious and/or subtle ways ?

One could say that how the thoppi and valanthalai interact is the basis of the "nadham" of the mridangam. An arrai chapu with the thoppi closed will sound different from one with the resonant open thoppi. The thoppi can serve to damp the sustained oscillations in the "ringing" of the valanthalai, can enhance the ring or mute it. All this can be achieved just by placing the hand on various locations of the thoppi without any overt movement (by the right people, of course).

In this clip of PMI http://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubram ... mo/s-ZbPv7 you will see that most of the chapu (tham) strokes are not accompanied by any overt thoppi activity, but the "dhin" phrase (played with the index finger and ring finger on the corner of the soru/blackspot) is almost always accompanied by a thom on the open thoppi. I would say that this is a defining characteristic of PMI's nadham. No one has managed to replicate this effect.

Here the "dhin" sounds richer because of the use of the open thoppi (especially see after 0:40 in the clip). At this point 0:45 and later he uses a gumki-esque phrase (not common in his style) to bring out the different tones that are possible in the dhin, a very good example of how the thoppi influences the valanthalai sound.

On a different note, the higher harmonics that CV Raman described for the arrai chappu are less obvious in a kappi mridangam. A kuchi mridangam like what UKS uses today will produce a longer and more resonant ringing arrai chappu. UKS's technician, Johnson is exceptional good at customizing mridangams for that style.

I am a huge fan of kappi mridangams, having I learned on one myself. But it is very hard to find good kappi makers these days (people like Selvam's family being the exception).

Bhaktavatsalam and Patri Satish kumar have tweaked and engineered especially sharp arrai chappus in their instruments, in the former's case probably more than is required, but that is another discussion.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 01 Feb 2012, 11:31

Thanks Ramesh for the insights. As regards the clarity of the arrai chappu in Kuchi mridangams it was quite evident to me based on the informal observations. Another thing about the Kuchi mrdangam, to my ears, is that the vibration of its valandharai has a pleasant "graininess" and a longer sustain to it, at the right hands of course. This "graininess" has an analogy to the tambura's jiva - without the properly adjusted jiva, which make the vibrating string just kiss the bridge at another point during vibration, the tambura will not have its characteristically pleasant "grainy" sound. This process also helps in generating the upper partials and perhaps a similar principle applies to the kuchi mridangam and its ability to generate clearer upper partials during array chappu. The mridangist who seems to have perfected best the art of sustained, "grainy" vibration of the valandharai seems to have been C S Murugaboopathy. On a separate note, I've listened to PSP recordings of old and they say he played a kappi mridangam too but somehow I can hear the same "grainy" type of tone in his playing. How did he manage that and what am I missing ?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 01 Feb 2012, 12:06

Amazing insights and technical knowledge from you guys! Really fascinating.

I think it is right to say that the western-drum equivalent of kutchi is snare where the skin vibrates against wire coils underneath it.

I've listened to PSP recordings of old and they say he played a kappi mridangam too but somehow I can hear the same "grainy" type of tone in his playing. How did he manage that and what am I missing ?

A Kapi mridangam can give nadam almost like tabla, and it may include some vibration from the tiny stones between the skins providing that snare effect. I haven't handled many kapi mridangams, but the ones that I have seen are either either extremely easy to get sound from, or very, very hard. I remember one, among the latter, which seemed to have very heavy skins which were, no doubt, part of its engineering as required by the mridangist that it belonged to.

Let me have a small quibble, half a quibble only, about "arrai" chappu. chappu should sound the same whether it is full or half. In fact, however much right-and-proper insistence there may be in the classroom that the little-finger tip must be exactly here, or exactly there, the teacher, on stage, may place it almost anywhere. Having moved through discipline to skill, they arrive at a point where the mridangam will do whatever they ask, however they ask it!

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 01 Feb 2012, 17:51

uday_shankar wrote:I've listened to PSP recordings of old and they say he played a kappi mridangam too but somehow I can hear the same "grainy" type of tone in his playing. How did he manage that and what am I missing ?

Its got more to do with the nAdham in their hands, rather than in the vAdhyam. Regarding the mastery of "aRai chApu" in thooL (kappi) vAdhyam, you may please listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaniMI9QF6s

Esp do not miss from 0:47 to 0:57. How UKS Sir produces this quality of "arai chApu " in a thooL vAdhyam with such clarity in a mike-less era for mrudangam is something which will continue to amaze us....

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 01 Feb 2012, 21:43

I agree with Semmu, a lot of these differences between instrument types dissolved at the hands of people like PSP.

Semmu, Thanks for that link. It is amazing how UKS has internalized so many PMI sollus and made them his own.

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 02 Feb 2012, 14:06

Sorry for the digression on Palghat Mani Iyer thread -

uday_shankar wrote:The mridangist who seems to have perfected best the art of sustained, "grainy" vibration of the valandharai seems to have been C S Murugaboopathy. How did he manage that and what am I missing ?

Uday - great point. As a novice, I have wondered about this a lot; How can mridangist generate a sound with that frequency (almost a metallic sound) from a leather/wooden instrument. Is it one of the magic of the mridangam makers (Selvam, ...) to add some special "maanja" like concoction for the black spot. I am fascinated with the mridangam tone of CSM almost blending with morsing; I sometimes feel like I want to open up the box to check; the way Hockey officials wanted to inspect Dhayan Chand's hockey stick if it had a magnet !

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 02 Feb 2012, 22:31

Actually, I'm more fascinated by the sound of his thoppi. There's a MMI AIR concert with a thani for Marivere with CSM, Vinaykram and a Dholak. The thoppi sound in that concert is really amazing. The bass sound he produces in that concert is similar to the one UKI produces in the epic thani avarthanam played by PSP and UKI for GNB's Brochevarevarura.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 06 Feb 2012, 10:46

Nice selection of photographs at http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2828385.ece
Note the absence of the microphone in most of the images.

In the Edinburgh image, Is the person behind Mani Iyer, his mrudangam technician?

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 06 Feb 2012, 16:25

Lovely pics, made for some splendid viewing that day @ the MA in that ambience

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 07 Feb 2012, 00:21

Excellent pics. Although many have been in circulation in the public domain, it is very nice to see them in the context of the PMI centenary. It is amazing how young Sri LGJ & TNK were when they started accompanying the stalwarts of the previous generation!

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 07 Feb 2012, 09:34

Mahavishnu: YES-those were Golden days and it was a treat to watch how much respect and encouragement PMI gave to TNK,LGJ. LGJ has tons of stories of his train travels with PMI to Delhi,Bombay and Calcutta. In one of these conversations GNB was also involved. It was a discussion on how to balance rasikas' expectations with the Musicians' ability to meet them. PMI will keep quiet in the initial phase of the conversations between GNB and LGJ. GNB will wonder aloud how realistic audience expectations can be --if we give 100 % today what if it becomes the benchmark and the audience would naturally expect 110% in the next concert and if this goes on how much can the artiste do to meet those rising expectations--to which the young and eager LGJ will respond saying--these rasikas go to great lengths and sacrifices in terms of their time and money and attend our concerts despite difficulties they may be having at home--Is it not our duty to perform to a level exceeding their expectations and the discussions between the two would go back and forth at which point a "Daniel" in the form of PMI will come to a judgement--"we the artistes are the ones who spoil the rasikas by raising their expectation levels.It is not that we should not try to give the audience the best we can offer but we should also recognize that at some point the spiral of expectations will have to end and we need to temper our performances accordingly. PMI goes on to say --as he has done in several speeches that he gave--To a rhetorical question WHO is a TRUE Kalaignan(Artist_--the ONE who makes the rasikas forget all their worries for 3 to 4 hours.
PMI was an enigma no doubt to even some of his contemporaries!!

In those early days--TNK started accompanying all the Senior artistes--encouraged,promoted and touted by SSI--since he was 16/17 years old--LGJ although younger to TNK by 2 years started when he was twenty --although he had concert-level talent--his Father Lalgudi Gopla Iyer was advised by Tiger(who died in 1950) --who had heard him a couple of years earlier during the Thiruvayaru Aradhana -- is reported to have told Gopala Iyer,''Nanna Vasikkiran anaal enna avasaram_ meaning let it "marinate" a little more!!
Sure enough when LGJ burst on to the scene --- Chowdiah,Rajamanikkam Pillai and Papa Venkatramiah were still active on the concert circuit--but both TNK and LGJ took the Carnatic Music scene by storm with two distinct styles and flourished. Although MSG was not too far behind them in age and was also awesome talent-wise--MSG/MSA's father Parur Sundaram Iyer was not in favor of them being accompanists and made them do lots of solos

. Back to the PMI thread-- PMI after the concerts would advise TNK or LGJ(strictly on an one-on-one basis)what were the points that need their attention--be crisp in your raga alapanas,do not try to do too much in every kriti etc etc.
PMI encouraged Kanjira Vidwan Swaminatha Pillai(son of Pudukottai Dakshinamurthy Pillai) and interceded with sabha authorities to give him chances(once he wanted my Father to give chances in 2 or '3 concerts accompanying PMI and also PSP--PSP turned it down for reasons(I have narrated this story in one of my posts on the PSP thread). PMI had tremendous loyalty and respect for Dakshinamurthy Pillai--although early in his career--the latter had raked PMI over the coals--yet to honor Dakshinamurthy's wishes after his death to take care of his son--PMI championed his cause whenever he could .Likewise,at SSI's request PMI would recommend Umayalpuram Kodanda Rama Iyer(Ghatam Vidwan and also Ramnad Krishnans father-in-law) for his concerts at Shanmukhananda Sabha--although UKI was quite old .

If I remember right in the early forties Kalpathy Ramanathan used to accompany MSS at PMI's behest)--one of our forumites I recall is a relative of Kalpathy Ramanathan and could possibly corraborate this.
PMI was a Great Man--unfettered by praise,undaunted by Musical Challenges,highly principled(perceived to be stubborn--although he had his reasons!!),a good family man,loyal to a narrow circle of tried and tested friends reminiscent of Shakespeare's Hamlet:(Polonius advice to his son Laertes)
"THOSE FRIENDS THOU HAST,THEIR ADOPTION TRIED,GRAPPLE THEM TO THY SOUL WITH HOOPS OF STEEL-BUT DO NOT DULL THY PALM WITH EACH NEW UNFLEDGED COMRADE".

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 07 Feb 2012, 09:43

If I remember right in the early forties Kalpathy Ramanathan used to accompany MSS at PMI's behest)--one of our forumites I recall is a relative of Kalpathy Ramanathan and could possibly corraborate this.

Yes, that is true. Kalpathi Ramanathan was my grandfather.
PMI was like a graduate advisor that went beyond the call of duty and became a father to many, my grandfather included.

From your recollections above, it sounds like he took an almost paternal interest in the careers of TNK and LGJ as well.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 07 Feb 2012, 11:38

Has PMI played with S Kalyanaraman, TRS ,madurai somu and Maharajapuram santhanam. Any audio recordings /photos to indicate that combo is appreciated.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 16 Feb 2012, 14:49

cool has uploaded lots of great photos of Shri PMI. Scroll and You will enjoy till the end.
http://rasayanakarnatic.wordpress.com/p ... mani-iyer/

Any reply to my previous post #108.

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 16 Feb 2012, 16:45

Rajeshnat Avl,
Many thanx for the excellent link. Enjoyed till the end.
Thanjavooran 16 02 2012

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 16 Feb 2012, 19:59

Unbelievable collection. Thanks for the link

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 16 Feb 2012, 20:56

Rajeshnat: Great collection!! If you can numver the pics(if at all possible!!) I will identify some of the old friends and musicians in those pics.

For starters, the group photo(sitting for the group) with GNB,Rajamanikkam,PMI and PSP is Circa April 1950 @ the Shanmukhananda Sabha in Mumbai-- in the second row just behind GNB is TR Balu his disciple and TRB is sandwiched on his right by my Father K.S.Mahadevan(who was the Secretary and instrumental to arrange the FIRST concert in Miumbai with PMI/ PSP. The gentleman on TRB's left was my uncle P.S.Sitaraman wo was a committee member in the Sabha and who in the Eighties was secretary to an Ernakulam Sabha. For this concert Rajamanikkam gave up his regular remuneration9without any request) to accommodate the High-Budget concert with the Giants!! What a magnanimous gesture!!

More later on the pics-- this is some collection worthy ofbeing enshrined in a Museum!!

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 17 Feb 2012, 09:17

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:Rajeshnat: Great collection!! If you can numver the pics(if at all possible!!) I will identify some of the old friends and musicians in those pics.

MKR Sir,
I was just pointing to the url, I am not sure how easy or difficult to add numbers by Cool , possibly I will pick up just few group photos and upload them so that you can name all of them there. They are just priceless and the names can be attached to faces for posterity

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 17 Feb 2012, 12:30

MKR Sir
Cool has given a serial no for all photos. You can give names for the two group photos (photo #19 and #35), the #19 in shanmughananda sabha with your dad and uncle and the #35 where PMI is seated between MSG and BMK.

Also I would like to know the disciples behind GNB and SSI in photos #34 and #38 respectively.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 19 Feb 2012, 19:21

Wow, what an excellent repository. Thanks to Coolkarni, and to Rajesh for the link.

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 26 Feb 2012, 08:06

Rajeshnat: Pic #12--PMI with his Guru Tanjore Vaidyanatha Iyer--a story I heard about how dedicated a Teacher Vaithanna(affectionately called by his peers) was especially towards PMI.

It seems PMI would visit Tanjore from Palakkad to learn some advanced lessons--the previous night Vaithanna would pace up and down -restless and when somebody asked him WHY he was so restless I believe he would say "Tomorrow morning Mani will arrive and I do not know what I can teach him--his grasp is so quick and I may not have enough to teach him for the whole day!!
Pic#10 PMI with a young Kamalakar Rao.

#15 Mali--the person to the right of Mali (behind)--the boy with glasses is my brother M.S.Sekhar who incidentally was one of the organisers of the PMI Centenary celebs in Chennai and recently(2 days back) in Mumbai(Any Mumbaikars who may have attended the function held at the Shanmukhananda Hall??? Would appreciate a report!!)
#35 Sitting from Left to right:- (unknown),trichy Sankaran,Guruvayur Dorai,MSG,PMI,BMK,Dwaram(???) and Kamalakar Rao. The ones standing I have no idea.

#36 SSI with lGJ--the sishya is the late V.R.Krishnan(excellent Teacher and the one who can "yank" SSI's chain more often than most people!!!). behind PMI on the Ghatam is Umayalpuram Kothandarama Iyer (Father-in-law of the late Ramnad Krishnan.) Mani Iyer had great respect for UK because of his excellent nadam on the Ghatam) to the left of UK is UK's son Narayanaswamy(Pattu as he was known)

#38 SSI-LGJ-PMI and Swaminatha Pillai (kanjira)--s/o of Pudukottai Dakshinamurthy Pillai-- SSI's disciples in the pic are V.R.Krishnan and P.S.Narayanaswamy(Pichai).

#50 Thiruppamburam Swaminatha Pillai(Flute),PSP.

#52--Palladam Sanjeeva Rao(Flute),Tiruvalangadu Sundaresa Iyer(violin)

To be Continued---

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 27 Feb 2012, 04:19

More on other pics in the PMI chain of pics:
#66 GNB flanked by SSI and the late R.Renganathan(br-in-law of GNB--sister's husband and Father of the late Visweswaran--husband of Chitra Visweswaran). Renganathan and his brothers were staunch friends/sycophamts of SSI.

#68 GNB-TNK-PMI with Madras Venu Naicker(kanjira)--the latetr had accompanied MSS in many concerts in the late forties.

#75.My guess is this pic was taken in Alleppey in Advocate Parthasarathy's House(Mr. Parthasarathy seated in the center is the father of Aleppey Venkatesan). Mr. Parthasarathy was a leading successful advocate, a connoisseur with very discerning tastes,a good singer-- learnt from ARi who was a staunch family friend (so was KVN,TNK et al. As an amateur he had given several performances in his friends' family weddings . He was affectionately known amongst the Musicians' circles as Aleppey Papa Mama. His house it seems would be like a Travelers' Bungalow with musicians darting in and out!! Great patron of Music and Musicians,notwithstanding Samuel Johnson's indictment of Patrons (" definition of a patron: "COMMONLY A WRETCH WHO SUPPORTS WITH INSOLENCE AND IS PAID WITH FLATTERY".

Continuing

The person in the left extreme(right of Mr. Parthasarathy and PMI is Mr. C.K.Venkatanarasimhan(Babu Sir to his friends)-- one of the leading criminal lawyers in Chennai in the forties and fifties. CKV was for a long time the Secretary(along with Dr.V.Raghavan) of the Music Academy and had the unenviable task of forcing the musicians to adhere to the time schedule--the Enforcer you may call him. Although I liked him for his enforcement work,I did not relish his chasing MMI when the great artist had to wind his evening concert in MA during the Season by 8: 30 P.M. so as to accommodate the 9 P.M. performance.
CKV was a great friend of ARI/PMI and GNB--PMI always stayed in his house --in Pilathope Mylapore whenever he came to Chennai for a concert--the beauty of it I have been told was that they hardly met and chatted during his visits--PMI minding his own business tending to his instruments and CKV tending to his practice!! Their friendship never wavered and withstood the vicissitudes of the times although there may have been misunderstandings between CKV and GNB at times .

An anecdote involving CKV,ARI,and GNB.

GNB and CKV were engaged in a heated discussion(although they were very good friends I believe they would have frequent arguments about Music or Institutions etc). ARI comes from behind GNB and interjects in Tamil "What is happening? GNB was so engrossed in the debate that he did not turn around to see where was the comment coming from or who was commenting. Without turning his head he says irritatingly in Tamil "Neengal Summa Irum ganum Engalukkulle Ayiram Irukkum"(rough translation in English; You keep quiet, there will be thousand things between us). ARI replies: Adukkenna Ainuru Ainuru aaga Pangittukkalame(why not split 500 between the two of you!!).

The other two artistes in the pic are Rajamanikkam Pillai and GNB in the picture.

Most of the other pics I am sure would be identifiable by the Forumites.

As I finished writing this piece after a long pause and several interruptions, I was wondering what is the use of all the trivia that I have thrown about which 99.999% of the Forumites would be indifferent to or could not care less about or some --like "DOYOUCARE" may legitimately order me to "cease and desist"!!--like the old tabloid newspaper Indu Nesan's warning to celebrities of those times .
THIRUNDA VIDIL PENA MUNAYIL THODARUVOM (If you do not mend yourself we will hound you on paper!!)-- If such an admonition does come from some or all of the forumites, I will still adhere to my Journalistic credo(learnt from the former CM of Tamil Nadu--MK)-

-A Journalist before he writes any piece must think that the whole world is literally waiting with bated breath for what he is going to write about and then reconcile himself to the fact that after it is published not a soul would have read or cared for what has been written--only if you have a such a thick skin you can survive in the journalist world"--in an radio interview given to the India Club of Columbia University in 1971(when MK had visited the US as CM)--I was one of the interviewers!! It is with that indomitable spirit I chose to write this much of useless trivia--Crave the indulgence of the indulgent-forumites!!

Rajeshnat I blame you for provoking this piece!!! Just joking!!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 27 Feb 2012, 04:30

Sri MKR, please do continue...I think you may have misunderstood Doyoucare...I think all he was saying was that the story of the stainless steel pAtram did not sit well with him.
I'm sure all of us read and enjoy the insights that people like you and RaviSri give us. Reading what people like you write (at least for me) invoke in me the feelings of watching the 'sound and light' (son et lumiere) program at the lAl khilA....the same bated breath, the same feeling of sneaking a peek into history, while all the time being romanced by the storyline....

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 27 Feb 2012, 07:25

MKR Sir
Thanks for taking the time , for sure we all like what you are doing?
In photo #19, can you name others (the photo where GNB is flanked by rajamanickam pillai and PMI) and Trichy Sankaran is above GNB and your dad is in the row above.

Also who is singing in #58(young spectacled vidwan), I think violinist is A Kanyakumari or T Rukmini , with PMI in mrudangam

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 27 Feb 2012, 11:16

my guess of #58 could be TRS TRSubramayan ? or Neyyantikara Vasudevan.

I have heard that TR Rajamani (son of PMI) has written a sequence of reminiscences of Palghat Mani Iyer for a Malayalam weekly magazine. It would be nice if those can be translated to English. I have heard some of those.

After a concert @ Trichy, Mani Iyer was staying @ Alathur Subbier's house. There was a festival procession at Mathrubhutheswarar (rockfort) temple and TN Rajaratnam was performing. Lying down on the Thinnai ,half asleep,they were listening to the concert in a semi-conscious state. TNR was elaborating some raga (I forgot) with all different prayogams and finally in the still of the night, TNR hit the thara thayi panchamam. At that point, from the half sleep state, Subbier and PMI, blurted out "sabash, ...".

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Feb 2012, 12:46

MKR, sir, if you do cease or desist, we will hound you until you begin again.

Your stories, and those of other elder members of the site, are a nectar to us all. To those of sufficient age to remember the same times and the same people, they must be not just the nectar, but the perfume of the flowers themselves, wafted over the decades.

(Hope you don't mind me calling you "elder." I was quite upset, recently, by a reference to an "old person" of fifty or sixty!"

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 27 Feb 2012, 21:27

Nick: Thanks for your encouragement--you do not realise what you have gotten yourself into!!
I am like the Village Preacher in Oliver Goldsmith's Deserted Village--long after the congregation has left,he would continue his homily--how can one dislike a forum where one could write anything without the fear of a rotten tomato/egg being tossed at!! By the way I do not take umbrage at references to age. Whenever anybody asks me how old I am-- I simply reply"I am just that old when on my birthdays the candles cost more than the cake!!!

Seriously though,I enjoy writing about the people whom I had known since the time I was young,reminiscing about the events--constantly juxtaposing within myself the polar opposite opinions I had about the incidents and the people at that time and the more charitable and hopefully understanding opinions I have learnt to cultivate in my twilight years. In other words I can confidently say I am slowly emerging from a state of cocksure ignorance to thoughtful uncertainty.. I hope to demonstrate this realisation when I resume the SSI saga which has been dormant for quite a while.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 27 Feb 2012, 21:28

Sri MKR,

Your ancedotes, as Ravi has eloquently said, give us rare but ever so meaningful glimpses into the rich history of our music and musicians.

You must continue. And I'm not taking no for an answer!

Ramasubramanian M.K · Post by **Ramasubramanian M.K** » 28 Feb 2012, 02:17

Bilahari: Thanks.

Any mumbaikars who attended the PMI function in Bombay@the Shanmukhananda sabha(Punarvasu?) Looking for the report as to how it went. Ofcourse I heard from my brother as he was one of the organisers of the function in Chennai and Mumbai--BUT I am looking for an UNBIASED account!!

nadhasudha · Post by **nadhasudha** » 28 Feb 2012, 23:21

Ramasubramanian M.K wrote:As I finished writing this piece after a long pause and several interruptions, I was wondering what is the use of all the trivia that I have thrown about which 99.999% of the Forumites would be indifferent to or could not care less about or some --like "DOYOUCARE" may legitimately order me to "cease and desist"!!--like the old tabloid newspaper Indu Nesan's warning to celebrities of those times .

MKR Sir - I like reading the trivia that you write. It gives us a glimpse into the life and times of these great vidwans. Similarly your anecdotes on MS Amma are very good too. We are able to get a peek into the personality of these great artists. Please continue your writings.

I have been many a time guilty of just reading but not letting you know how much I appreciate your taking the time to write. Hope to correct that with this post. Thanks for sharing these anecdotes. Looking forward to more of your posts