What is mishra korraippu and khanda korraippu?

yadugiri_nivasa · Post by **yadugiri_nivasa** » 09 Dec 2009, 00:48

I have heard these two as being sung and played during the thani. What exactly are they?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Dec 2009, 14:06

If you recognised them, then you will probably know more than I do already!

I suspect that you already understand the meaninf of koraipu -- reducing, and that it is the name for the part of the thani where the musicians take ever decreasing turns, perhaps starting with two, or more, full avartanams, and going down to as little as one beat. The same pattern can also be found in the kalpana swara.

So why misra and khanda? Simply because the patterns that they play will be all calculations around the numbers seven for misra and five for khanda, with some adjusting pattern to fill out the cycle.

Misra koraipu is generally adjusted by leaving a gap at the beginning. This creates a theatrical tension, because the gap will reduce, simply because, if one plays a seven-beat pattern within 8 beats, one beat gap will come; at half cycle, half-beat gap, at quarter cycle, quarter beat, and so on. Even without understanding what is being played, the increasing tension of this can be felt, even by a complete novice.

Vijayakumar · Post by **Vijayakumar** » 11 Dec 2009, 12:36

Mr Nick or anyone,

can you please share some sollukattus of the commonly used kuraippus in thani?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Dec 2009, 15:30

That would be a big job, like a chapter or three of a mridangam text book!

Sorry, I do not know them anyway.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Dec 2009, 21:51

Here is a pictorial representation of the standard ( chathusra ) Koraippu. Please check if this is correct. I do not understand the misra and khanda koraippu details enough to draw the picture for it. If someone can explain fully, then I offer to try to represent it pictorially.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Dec 2009, 22:04

VK
Nice graphical/simple esplanation!
Should both have equal time?
Can be asymmetrical too as long as they both together respect the thaaLam grammar?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 11 Dec 2009, 22:18

I've never quite got to grips with this, so it is a good opportunity to raise it.

When the talam is an even number of beats, I know that the time is divided evenly in avartanam koraipu, which is what I understand to be used for this section of the thani --- there are other kinds of koraipu.

However, when the talam is not an even division? Taking 7 as the sample, is the division according to even time? Or according to 3 + 4 proportions?

VK... what you have drawn is adi-talam koraipu. The "time sharing" will be the same, only the compositions and calculations played will differ. You could, though, for misra koraipu, illustrate the reducing gap at the start of each turn with a blank space

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Dec 2009, 22:54

Nick, I will work on the Misra Koraippu diagram based on your guidance and offer it for comments.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Dec 2009, 12:57

Here are the pictures for Misra Koraippu and Khanda Koraippu. The resource material I used is Sri. Balaji's posting : http://rasikas.org/forums/post49739.html#p49739

Please provide any corrections to the depiction.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 14 Dec 2009, 02:14

Nice intuitive graphics VK!
can bAlAji/Nagaraj/... check it out ?

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 15 Dec 2009, 06:03

Thank you very much for the graphic display, this helped very much.

After seeing this image and reading Balaji's post in the other forum, I understand how the Khanda korraippu is played technically, rhythmically, and mathematically, however if one could explain how to play this aesthetically I would very much appreciate it. I do know some mishra and chathusra korraipu's, however Khanda I have yet to learn and I am both curious and eager to learn this. If one could pull up an example online I would be grateful. Thank you.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 15 Dec 2009, 12:52

mridangamkid wrote:. If one could pull up an example online I would be grateful. Thank you.

What VK has put is khanda koraippu in chatusra gathi( If am not wrong ) . However to listen to a breathtaking khanda koraippu , suggest you listen to a famous trichy sankaran-v.nagarajan thani for dkj ( that famous "irattai vedi " reference ) . They would have played a brilliant khanda koraippu in thisra gathi , literally setting the stage on fire . Remember seeing that thani in sangeethapriya . If you cant locate it , let me know. Will upload that .

Arvind .

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Dec 2009, 21:43

Arvind, yes my picture assumes chathusra gathi. While we are at it, can you please review if the pictures are correct and consistent with practise for both misra koraippu and kanda koraippu.

Please upload the thani and point out the time when the thisra gathi begins and also when the koraippu begins.

I will also attempt a picture for Kanda Koraippu in tisra nadai.

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 16 Dec 2009, 00:27

Arvind-

I understand what VK has posted is Khanda Koraippu, I was hoping I could get a demo of it played in concert- perhaps pick up on some new phrases or the like. Thank you for pointing out the Sankaran sir thani, I will be sure to look that up.

And again- VK- thank you very much for diagram, you don't understand how easy it makes it to follow.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Dec 2009, 03:10

Here is my depction of Khanda Koraippu Trisa Nadai mEl kAlam 2 kaLai Adi. 8*2*6 = 96 sub-beats. The Koraippu works out to be more regular than khandai koraippu thisra nadai. You can see the starting point gets reduced from 16 to 8, to 4, to 2 and then to 1 before merging.

I used Erode's thumb rule "ettu(8) thalli ettu(8), nAlu(4) thalli nAlu(4) etc." and adoped it as "padinaru(16) thalli padinaru(16), ettu (8) thalli ettu (8), nAlu(4) thalli nAlu(3)...etc.".

This way the initial offset sub-beat count is the same the number of repetitions. For example, the first colored line starts after 16 sub-beats and the khanda pattern gets repeated 16 times which is shared between the two instruments

This rule works uniformly for misra kuraippu in chathusra Nadai, kanda kuraippu in trisra Nadai, sankIrNa kuraippu in kanda Nadai, trisra kuraippu in misra Nadai.

Again, I am doing this based on the theoretical knowledge I learnt from Sri. Balaji and Erode's posts. Please review and provide any corrections.

(Note: there is no intended significance to the bold vertical line separating the sub-beats, it is just a picture artifact. )

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 16 Dec 2009, 22:22

vasanthakokilam wrote:Arvind, yes my picture assumes chathusra gathi. While we are at it, can you please review if the pictures are correct and consistent with practise for both misra koraippu and kanda koraippu.

Please upload the thani and point out the time when the thisra gathi begins and also when the koraippu begins.

I will also attempt a picture for Kanda Koraippu in tisra nadai.

Ya VK. The pictures you have put up are perfect .

http://www.mediafire.com/myfiles.php

Here it is. Enjoy as the two greats have a go at each other . In such an intimate atmosphere like sastri hall , with the arrays of sabash / bale / besh from the audience and an excited dkj , one can feel the heat even when listening to this thani in an a/c room . Lucky were those who attended this live ..

The tisra gathi here starts around 18:53 and the khanda koraippu around 25:33 . Hope you all enjoy this .

Arvind

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Dec 2009, 06:48

Arvind and others: I have a question about the picture. Compare the picture in post #15 above to the following picture. Which one correctly depicts what happens in practice?

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 18 Dec 2009, 11:41

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1wk6p9

Probably this link should work . The tisra gathi here starts around 18:53 and the khanda koraippu around 25:33 .

VK , The thani above follows the picture in post # 17 . Usually post 17 is the one followed from whatever i little i have heard till nnow .

Arvind .

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Dec 2009, 05:12

Arvind: Thanks. That koraippu is quite mind boggling.

iamkirinlemon · Post by **iamkirinlemon** » 21 Dec 2009, 05:18

Arvind - thanks for posting this link.

It takes a bit of time for Nagarajan sir to pick up on this koraippu. And I don't blame him ... Sankaran sir initially is not just playing 5's, he's playing 7+3, or 2+8, or other combinations. Imagine how it is for us listening in the comfort of our homes, and then picture Nagarajan sir having to decipher it on stage, on the spot. Eek!

iamkirinlemon · Post by **iamkirinlemon** » 21 Dec 2009, 05:20

VK

A small comment on the pictures ... only in the first one are "Instrument 1" and "Instrument 2" properly indicated as different colors. In all the other pictures, you've instead used color to show the subdivisions of beats into 7's or 5's.

Otherwise they provide a great illustration of what koraippu looks like!

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 21 Dec 2009, 07:31

iamkirinlemon wrote:Arvind - thanks for posting this link.

It takes a bit of time for Nagarajan sir to pick up on this koraippu. And I don't blame him ... Sankaran sir initially is not just playing 5's, he's playing 7+3, or 2+8, or other combinations. Imagine how it is for us listening in the comfort of our homes, and then picture Nagarajan sir having to decipher it on stage, on the spot. Eek!

No , to start of with , he is playing 5's only . In fact he is playing 10's . It is only after 4-5 rounds he starts to play 7+3 , 6+4 combinations .

Think thats where harishankar stands apart . I have infact one more recording of sankaran sir-harishankar accompanying hyd bros , where sankaran sir plays the same koraippu , but harishankar grasps it and plays it so effotlessly , internalising whatever sankaran sir played . Probably i can say , that the thani with nagarajan sir was in 1982 and with harishnakar was in 1994 . Could also be due to the fact that sankaran sir had just formulated that koraippu during the 80's and hence nagarajan sir had some problems picking it up . By the time in 1994 , that could have become famous . But then everyone knows about harishankar's genius .

Arvind .

iamkirinlemon · Post by **iamkirinlemon** » 21 Dec 2009, 08:32

semmu86 wrote:
No , to start of with , he is playing 5's only . In fact he is playing 10's . It is only after 4-5 rounds he starts to play 7+3 , 6+4 combinations .

Arvind .

It's all a matter of how you think about it. He is playing standard khandam phrases, but I don't think of them or hear them as straight 5's ... I hear them as aesthetically different combinations, especially at this speed and how he is emphasizing it. I mean to contrast against just playing "tham . tham . ka" over and over again, as many artists do to establish the first round of the koraippu, which makes things very obvious to the upapakkavadyam.

This kind of koraippu is just a part of mridangam fundamentals. But you have to be Harishankar to keep up on the khanjira, both for genius and for sheer speed. The great vidwans barely show any of their knowledge in concerts - the treat in this recording is rare. I have asked Sankaran sir in person why he seems to recycle a lot of his playbook, and he flat out said it is because it can be produced reliably with great effect and impact on any audience, so no need to go into more difficult areas that not everybody can appreciate.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Dec 2009, 12:15

iamkirinlemon wrote:VK

A small comment on the pictures ... only in the first one are "Instrument 1" and "Instrument 2" properly indicated as different colors. In all the other pictures, you've instead used color to show the subdivisions of beats into 7's or 5's.

Otherwise they provide a great illustration of what koraippu looks like!

iamkirinlemon, thanks for the comment. I thought so too about the pictures in posts #9 and #15. Is the picture in post #17 OK?

iamkirinlemon · Post by **iamkirinlemon** » 21 Dec 2009, 20:12

VK

Post #17 also has some issues. Remember that there is always a gap before each artist's turn. So you want your first horizontal bar to have a single color for the first instrument, and the second horizontal bar to have a single color for the second instrument. Both of these bars should be identical, with the same gap, except for the choice of solid color. This indicates the trading of full avarthanams between the artists. It's just like your post #5, but with the gaps (which you indicated correctly). Optionally, you can indicate the groupings of 5 within each artist's turn using thicker lines or some other scheme.

Really everything should follow from post #5, except that you have gaps preceding each artist's turn, and the duration an artist plays can be split into sets of 7s or 5s or what have you (indicating mishra koraippu, khanda koraippu, etc.)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Dec 2009, 07:28

iamkirinlemon, See if this pictures captures what you said regarding 'gap before each artist's turn'

(general note: for grouping by five, I used slight change in shade of the same color, otherwise it is still only two instruments )

iamkirinlemon · Post by **iamkirinlemon** » 22 Dec 2009, 10:32

VK

This picture looks right to me and should be very helpful to people trying to understand the nuts and bolts behind this koraippu. Thanks for being so thorough.

In an actual concert, there can of course be more than 1 full-avarthanam exchange, more than 2 half-avarthanam exchanges, and so on, but making the illustration fully accurate to that point would take away from the clarity that it has right now.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Dec 2009, 12:01

Thanks iamkirinlemon. Here is the fixed version of the Misra Koraippu. Once you OK it, I will gather the three good pictures and post all of them together.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 22 Dec 2009, 15:11

vk,
Good pictures. Regarding #26, would it not be a good idea reduce tishra nadai to 48 beats per cycle (i.e., normal kaalam tishram)...that makes the konakkol more easily "utterable" for lay folks like me (as opposed to the "laya" folks). Of course, then your blanks get reduced by half in each case and the merge occurs one round earlier.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Dec 2009, 00:47

Uday: Yes, valid point. Here is a picture for the 48 beats per cycle. Please check if it is correct.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 23 Dec 2009, 11:22

vk
Whew

. 48 is definitely more manageable. One small error - the title in #30 should say "khanda kuraippu".
Also, if you want to make it perfect should you should shade (or hatch) one extra box for each instrument at the end of their cycle to represent the finishing flourish at samam, arudhi, 5th beat, etc... ?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Dec 2009, 12:55

Thanks Uday. I fixed it now.

Regarding the extra box, I think I understand what you mean. Let me think about a representational scheme like the way you suggested. Question: What happens at the last cycle before the merge where there is only one box separting the cycles? Will we pretty much hear sounds without any gap? ( I will listen to Semmu's upload again looking for this ).

Thanks.

Sath · Post by **Sath** » 15 Nov 2021, 02:38

vasanthakokilam, the illustrations are probably the most valuable part of this thread, and unfortunately, are now missing on tinypic. Would you mind reposting them? Thank you.

What is mishra korraippu and khanda korraippu?

Re: What is mishra korraippu and khanda korraippu?