How to appreciate a Thani

Tālam & Layam related topics
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koyaliya
Posts: 34
Joined: 27 Apr 2009, 23:01

How to appreciate a Thani

Post by koyaliya »

In the past few weeks, I have been bombarded with questions about laya and tala that I feel ill-equipped to answer, so I am turning to the apath-bandhava-anatharakshaka rasikas forums :)

Here is the background to my dilemma:
Recently, I introduced a non-indian with minimal exposure to Carnatic music to a few live kutcheris.
After listening to them, he told me that while he could not wrap his head around the violin and vocals, he enjoyed the percussion.
He has had enough percussion training to grasp rhythm and the basics of talam and I had previously bored him with explanations of tisra/catusra/khanda/misra/sankeerna jati/gati/nadai.

To be honest, my own knowlege of talam is limited to what I learned when I learned bharathanatyam. Oddly, while I may have learned more when I learned vocal, it was never in a tangible way that I could use to explain anything.

Anyway, at this point, my father entered the conversation and asked me the difference between layam and talam. I blinked... and ad-libbed. Layam is the overarching set of rhythm while talam is more akin to 'beat.'

My question now is... was I wrong in my answer and how can I better explain how to appreciate a thani avarthanam for casual listeners? Is there a guide with characteristic phrases to watch for or an audio primer that can be listened to to learn what defines a really good thani versus a passable one?

And a plea... isn't there anyone else out there that thinks if there were more exposure to talam at the elementary education level people would be less likely to get up and walk out at concerts during the thani avarthanam?

Nick H
Posts: 9385
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: How to appreciate a Thani

Post by Nick H »

Layam is rhythm, whereas talam is beat.

To expand, layam is the feeling, the essence of rhythm itself: talam describes specific rhythmic patterns and structures.

Layam does not requier numbers; talam is all about number. On the other hand, one cannot do strange and difficult things with numbers without good layam.

Layam is the track the train runs on, talam describes how the wheels turn as the train moves.

There are some very good threads on the structure and parts of a tani, with contributions from our professional members: do a search, and you'll find good stuff.

Carnatic rasikas whilst, on the one hand, going on endlessly about bhava, are hung up on intellectual understanding of what they hear. Whilst our percussion is probably one of the most complex in the world, other audiences, relieved from the necessity to understand, just enjoy!

There are tanis, and players, though, to whom maths is all --- and I don't find such performances very pleasant!

semmu86
Posts: 960
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:39

Re: How to appreciate a Thani

Post by semmu86 »

koyaliya wrote: And a plea... isn't there anyone else out there that thinks if there were more exposure to talam at the elementary education level people would be less likely to get up and walk out at concerts during the thani avarthanam?
Absolutely true. Sruti-gnanam and laya-gnanam are paramount in the learning and practice of good music. One should do sadhakam with kalapramanam, one should not learn the raga-s and sahitya-s first, then the tala. One has to learn them together at the same time; otherwise one will not get a grip over tala ever. Which indirectly means, the student will never get interested or treat thAlam/layam as a big deal in the process of learning music.

I have seen so many teachers teaching young kids going to the extent of saying, "stop putting the thAlam first, concentrate on the lyrics". They are not realising what a great blunder they are committing. Thats the prime reason when we come across any CM lover one can confidently say that 7 out of 10 cant tell you what is happening in the thani, unlike when they talk with authority about thOdi and kalyAni. Of course we cant expect them to follow the korvais sollu by sollu, but that basic grounding in thAlam in the early stages would have made them appreciate thanis even more.

Our very own akellaji is doing some great service in this regard and as Nick said, this forum can teach you so much, that you may never know that you can learn so much about thAlam/layam in this section.

VK RAMAN
Posts: 5009
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:29

Re: How to appreciate a Thani

Post by VK RAMAN »

Good subject.

Vijayakumar
Posts: 58
Joined: 03 Aug 2009, 12:01

Re: How to appreciate a Thani

Post by Vijayakumar »

Thats true. A lot can be learnt through this site. J Balaji, akellaji and vasanthakokilam have done a lots of explanations.

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