Typically, I have seen (or heard) Sruthi BhEdam only in the AlApana. Has anyone attempted it in other parts of ManOdharma like Neraval (seems possible), Taanam (seems possible again), or SwaraprastAram (Is it even possible here?)?
Clueless
Sruthi BhEdam,other than in AlApana
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ramakriya
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clueless,
Definitely possible in Swaraprastara.
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=34395#p34395
Look at post #273
part of the same concert which was posted in DRS's quiz!
- Ramakriya
Definitely possible in Swaraprastara.
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=34395#p34395
Look at post #273
part of the same concert which was posted in DRS's quiz!
- Ramakriya
Last edited by ramakriya on 23 Jan 2007, 02:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Suji Ram
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kartik
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rasaali
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Sri BMK has a tillana totally based on this. It is basically in Kalyani and he uses grahabhedam to present a number of ragas.
Sankarabharanam, Mohanam, Hindolam are part of the mix but there are also a couple of others that I forget. Very nice tillana, was in a Sangeetha cassettes release, late 80's or so.
Sankarabharanam, Mohanam, Hindolam are part of the mix but there are also a couple of others that I forget. Very nice tillana, was in a Sangeetha cassettes release, late 80's or so.
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mohan
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I think Lalgudi Jayaraman's misra sivaranjani tillana also concludes with a greha bedham section in a few ragas.
I have heard Charumathi Ramachandran sing a Nannu Palimpa (Mohanam) and do greha bedham on each note while singing kalpana swarams. This was in a Philadelphia concert organised by Sruti.
Lalgudi Jayaraman in his Melbourne concert (1994) played Garudagamana (Nagaswaravali) and then shifted to Hamsadhwani via greha bedham during kalpana swaram. He actually played a short passage of Vathapi to emphasise the greha bedham.
I have heard Charumathi Ramachandran sing a Nannu Palimpa (Mohanam) and do greha bedham on each note while singing kalpana swarams. This was in a Philadelphia concert organised by Sruti.
Lalgudi Jayaraman in his Melbourne concert (1994) played Garudagamana (Nagaswaravali) and then shifted to Hamsadhwani via greha bedham during kalpana swaram. He actually played a short passage of Vathapi to emphasise the greha bedham.
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ramakriya
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darbAri kAnaDa is another rAga coming in this ; We have discussed this tillAna in few other threads on this forum - This is called a rAga ThAya mAlika tillAna. The sAhitya also has the words "rAgaThAyamAlika chE"rasaali wrote:Sri BMK has a tillana totally based on this. It is basically in Kalyani and he uses grahabhedam to present a number of ragas.
Sankarabharanam, Mohanam, Hindolam are part of the mix but there are also a couple of others that I forget. Very nice tillana, was in a Sangeetha cassettes release, late 80's or so.
-Ramakriya
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ramakriya
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Also there is a composition of ShatAvadhAni R Ganesh with the grahabhEda pentAd - shuddha dhanyAsi, mOhana, shuddhasAvEri, hindOLa and madhyamAvati. I have heard Smt Nagavalli Nagaraj singing this. Each charaNa moves to a different grahaswara bringing out one rAga. It has the rAga mudre in each charaNa also, if I remember correctly.
-Ramakriya
-Ramakriya
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gb
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tmohan
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I have heard MLV singing in Music Academy , revati and sunAda vinodini as sruti bhedam pair in an RTP in
dharmavati.
This concept has featured long back in the Tamil film 'mAlayiTTa mangai' in the the famous song 'nAnanRi yAr varuvAr' ? by T.R. Mahalingam and A.P.Komala in Abhogi going to valaji .
BMK has the recording of "sa ri ga ma pa da n pADeDa" in nATA bhairavi where the KalpanA svarAs are rendered following its standard sRuti bheda ragAs.
MOHAN
dharmavati.
This concept has featured long back in the Tamil film 'mAlayiTTa mangai' in the the famous song 'nAnanRi yAr varuvAr' ? by T.R. Mahalingam and A.P.Komala in Abhogi going to valaji .
BMK has the recording of "sa ri ga ma pa da n pADeDa" in nATA bhairavi where the KalpanA svarAs are rendered following its standard sRuti bheda ragAs.
MOHAN
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mohan
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Re: Sruthi BhEdam,other than in AlApana
Here is a useful greha bhedam calculator
http://www.ibiblio.org/guruguha/MusicRe ... r-0031.xls
http://www.ibiblio.org/guruguha/MusicRe ... r-0031.xls
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SrinathK
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Re: Sruthi BhEdam,other than in AlApana
There is a varnam (Mohanaanga Murali Dayakara) in Mohanam that in the charanam does graha bhedam at all the notes of Mohanam giving rise to Madhyamavati at R2, Hindolam at G3, Shuddha Saveri at P and Shuddha Dhanyaasi at D2 apart from exploring all the 5 nadais in the chittaswarams and the raga names appear in the respective sahityam for those chittaswarams (Don't know the composer, but the recording was of Smt. Charumati Ramachandran). I remember how we performed it for our annual day celebrations many years ago. The hardest part was to get each raga to sound like itself and not like Mohanam and it is even harder to do on the instrument!
Since this is a technical discussion, I'd like to digress for a couple of paragraphs to add that the present 12 tone scale does not lend itself accurately to graha bhedam because the relative positions and range of oscillations must be maintained while shifting the shadja to a new position. If I were to shift the Sa to the position of antara gandharam (5/4), the shuddha madhyama relative to that position (4/3) will be slightly different from the normal position of D2 (D2 aligning with shadja occurs at 27/16, but the sruti bhedam shifts it to a frequency of 5/4 * 4/3 = 5/3). I'm using plain notes as an example -- in actual practice the gamakas have to make such an adjustment as well. It is in these microscopic handling of gamakas and svaras that the raga bhaava can be accurately distinguished.
Dear mohan, since you shared that useful graha bhedam calculator, I'll see if I can share my own excel sheet on sruthi bhedham using the old 22-sruthi system, in which I've put in the relative intervals of each note that arise due to graha bhedam at each position (with the base sa at a relative position of 100). The fact is that all the plain note varieties of our swaras were actually derived from graha bhedam on the perfect fifth, fourth and the third in the first place!
The mathematical beauty of it is that it shows that sruthi bhedam is possible at any of the 22 intervals and even when some intervals are unavailable due to dissonance with the tanpura it is still fully possible to play a 12 tone scale from any position keeping all the relative intervals within those 22 positions itself (without the need for equal temperament!). If anyone can suggest where I could upload that where it can be readily downloaded, I'll post it up here.
Now if one could adapt that to gamakas, it becomes possible to do graha bhedam and still retain the raaga bhaava with a good degree of skill which requires a good ear that can perceive finer than the normal 12 notes and is fully aware of the fine details of the gamakas that are unique to every raga. The point where your brain thinks the shadja is very important, I once heard a GNB alapana of what I thought was Mohanam until I realized where the shadja was and then I realized it was actually Hindolam!
Back on topic, in one concert at IITM Music club, we had Ganesh and Kumaresh playing thodi and they shifted co-ordinates to Kalyani and it sounded exactly like Kalyani without any hint of Thodi and it was wonderful to hear. In another concert of veena Gayatri at CLT, she also attempted sruthi bhedam in the main piece (I forget the exact details now). It is especially significant because Graha bhedam is quite hard on an instrument -- it cannot speak swaras, so your only reference is within the correct relative intervals and gamaka movements. I think there are also some recordings of Lalgudi doing sruthi bhedam.
Since this is a technical discussion, I'd like to digress for a couple of paragraphs to add that the present 12 tone scale does not lend itself accurately to graha bhedam because the relative positions and range of oscillations must be maintained while shifting the shadja to a new position. If I were to shift the Sa to the position of antara gandharam (5/4), the shuddha madhyama relative to that position (4/3) will be slightly different from the normal position of D2 (D2 aligning with shadja occurs at 27/16, but the sruti bhedam shifts it to a frequency of 5/4 * 4/3 = 5/3). I'm using plain notes as an example -- in actual practice the gamakas have to make such an adjustment as well. It is in these microscopic handling of gamakas and svaras that the raga bhaava can be accurately distinguished.
Dear mohan, since you shared that useful graha bhedam calculator, I'll see if I can share my own excel sheet on sruthi bhedham using the old 22-sruthi system, in which I've put in the relative intervals of each note that arise due to graha bhedam at each position (with the base sa at a relative position of 100). The fact is that all the plain note varieties of our swaras were actually derived from graha bhedam on the perfect fifth, fourth and the third in the first place!
The mathematical beauty of it is that it shows that sruthi bhedam is possible at any of the 22 intervals and even when some intervals are unavailable due to dissonance with the tanpura it is still fully possible to play a 12 tone scale from any position keeping all the relative intervals within those 22 positions itself (without the need for equal temperament!). If anyone can suggest where I could upload that where it can be readily downloaded, I'll post it up here.
Now if one could adapt that to gamakas, it becomes possible to do graha bhedam and still retain the raaga bhaava with a good degree of skill which requires a good ear that can perceive finer than the normal 12 notes and is fully aware of the fine details of the gamakas that are unique to every raga. The point where your brain thinks the shadja is very important, I once heard a GNB alapana of what I thought was Mohanam until I realized where the shadja was and then I realized it was actually Hindolam!
Back on topic, in one concert at IITM Music club, we had Ganesh and Kumaresh playing thodi and they shifted co-ordinates to Kalyani and it sounded exactly like Kalyani without any hint of Thodi and it was wonderful to hear. In another concert of veena Gayatri at CLT, she also attempted sruthi bhedam in the main piece (I forget the exact details now). It is especially significant because Graha bhedam is quite hard on an instrument -- it cannot speak swaras, so your only reference is within the correct relative intervals and gamaka movements. I think there are also some recordings of Lalgudi doing sruthi bhedam.
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Rsachi
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Re: Sruthi BhEdam,other than in AlApana
Srikanth, thanks for a fine explanation.
I understand grahabhedam quite well, thanks but no thanks for most concert attempts at grahabhedam which leave me underwhelmed being a mere exercise in showmanship. I have had moments yes like the one you mentioned of GK at IITM but they are rare.
In fact I was curious to see how radioweb.in tackled this subject so I accessed via my account their latest grahabhedam presentation. Alas, the RJ explained the Mohana to Madhyamavati etc bit and played a Mohana song by artiste A, a madhyamavati song by artiste B etc..!!!!
If you want to share a document like excel file etc try Dropbox. Create your free account and you can share a lot of things there.
Next alternative is archive.org.
I understand grahabhedam quite well, thanks but no thanks for most concert attempts at grahabhedam which leave me underwhelmed being a mere exercise in showmanship. I have had moments yes like the one you mentioned of GK at IITM but they are rare.
In fact I was curious to see how radioweb.in tackled this subject so I accessed via my account their latest grahabhedam presentation. Alas, the RJ explained the Mohana to Madhyamavati etc bit and played a Mohana song by artiste A, a madhyamavati song by artiste B etc..!!!!
If you want to share a document like excel file etc try Dropbox. Create your free account and you can share a lot of things there.
Next alternative is archive.org.
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mohan
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- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 16:52
Re: Sruthi BhEdam,other than in AlApana
There are lots of options file sharing sites you can post it to for example, save it to DropBox and share the linkSrinathK wrote: If anyone can suggest where I could upload that where it can be readily downloaded, I'll post it up here.
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sweetsong
- Posts: 556
- Joined: 29 Nov 2009, 16:48
Re: Sruthi BhEdam,other than in AlApana
Here is a nice sruti bhedam in Mohanam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT1xKVbPwwc
and an unbelievable sruti bhedam in Sindhubhairavi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnq5tdukBeg
by Prince Rama Varma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT1xKVbPwwc
and an unbelievable sruti bhedam in Sindhubhairavi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnq5tdukBeg
by Prince Rama Varma