T.R. Subramaniam

Carnatic Musicians
rajeshnat
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#326 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by rajeshnat » 04 Oct 2017, 15:01

MaheshS wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 14:04
rajeshnat wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 07:17
--------------------------------------------------------
# Year 1994/1995 was the controversy year where TRS mama wrote the thesis . Jhalsik(an id here) gave snippets of the thesis , i downloaded it and did not find anything wrong . My Delhi Periappa who was a close friend of TRS in Delhi thought it was not proper for him to collaborate and write that thesis . I and my periappa have vehemently disagreed , because I still think he had the guts to write on what he wrote and there is a high degree of truth. When you stear a whole gamut of problem statement you are just bound to hurt here and there few people- the price of speaking the inconveniant truth
Is there an ecopy of this thesis or if you have it can you please send it to me? Thanks.
MaheshS,
I have it downloaded , this was first shared by jhnlasik in the below thread . Give me this week end i will share it

All
If you have a chance read this thread
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4215

Way back in 2007, Coolkarni and few of us organized a series of concerts and this was the first lecdem where the immortal TRS mama spoke . Just read the above thread , with vgv commentary , then view points of cmlover , sangeeth rasik, ramaraj sir who is also vaggeyakkara,sbala,vijay and of course many more who are still active with our forum(arasi and team) have put their lovely thoughts.
The lecdem topic is 'Status of Telugu as a language employed in CM'
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rajeshnat
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#327 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by rajeshnat » 04 Oct 2017, 15:08

CRama wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 12:40
Rajesh, Thank you for posting the reminiscences about TRS on this day- the day he left us four years back. We miss him a lot. But his music - plenty of them are available with us. On October 10th, his Remembrance day is going to be held in Arkay Hall with a violin concert by Smt T.Rukmini who paired with him in innumerable concerts.
Crama,
I am not sure if plenty of music of trs is actually available is factually right. I am for the past 10 to 12 years have heard thru grapevine that dalachina vaaru in dhanyasi is one song that TRS has taken to himalayan heights . The recording is somewhere there .I recollect few years back i asked you in forum you said you dont have it. May be some one who has that can share the dalachina vaaru of taala raaga swaroopan.
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MaheshS
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#328 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by MaheshS » 04 Oct 2017, 15:17

rajeshnat wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 15:01
MaheshS wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 14:04
rajeshnat wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 07:17
--------------------------------------------------------
# Year 1994/1995 was the controversy year where TRS mama wrote the thesis . Jhalsik(an id here) gave snippets of the thesis , i downloaded it and did not find anything wrong . My Delhi Periappa who was a close friend of TRS in Delhi thought it was not proper for him to collaborate and write that thesis . I and my periappa have vehemently disagreed , because I still think he had the guts to write on what he wrote and there is a high degree of truth. When you stear a whole gamut of problem statement you are just bound to hurt here and there few people- the price of speaking the inconveniant truth
Is there an ecopy of this thesis or if you have it can you please send it to me? Thanks.
MaheshS,
I have it downloaded , this was first shared by jhnlasik in the below thread . Give me this week end i will share it
Many thanks, either post it here or do contact me via email.
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kvjayan
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#329 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by kvjayan » 04 Oct 2017, 18:12

rajeshnat wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 15:01
MaheshS wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 14:04
rajeshnat wrote:
04 Oct 2017, 07:17
--------------------------------------------------------
# Year 1994/1995 was the controversy year where TRS mama wrote the thesis . Jhalsik(an id here) gave snippets of the thesis , i downloaded it and did not find anything wrong . My Delhi Periappa who was a close friend of TRS in Delhi thought it was not proper for him to collaborate and write that thesis . I and my periappa have vehemently disagreed , because I still think he had the guts to write on what he wrote and there is a high degree of truth. When you stear a whole gamut of problem statement you are just bound to hurt here and there few people- the price of speaking the inconveniant truth
Is there an ecopy of this thesis or if you have it can you please send it to me? Thanks.
MaheshS,
I have it downloaded , this was first shared by jhnlasik in the below thread . Give me this week end i will share it

All
If you have a chance read this thread
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4215

Way back in 2007, Coolkarni and few of us organized a series of concerts and this was the first lecdem where the immortal TRS mama spoke . Just read the above thread , with vgv commentary , then view points of cmlover , sangeeth rasik, ramaraj sir who is also vaggeyakkara,sbala,vijay and of course many more who are still active with our forum(arasi and team) have put their lovely thoughts.
The lecdem topic is 'Status of Telugu as a language employed in CM'
I think TRS sir was the guide and the student-author of the thesis was Smt. Radha Venkatachalam. Of course, the complaint of the anti-TRS group (led by the late editor of SRUTI magazine) was that TRS passed off his own views on many great Carnatic musicians in the guise of thesis (entitled EPOCH MAKERS) written by his student. SRUTI carried on the propaganda against TRS for quite a long time, until there was nothing more left and was somewhat contended that TRS (who was in Delhi at that time) was orstracised, at least, for a while.
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rajeshnat
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#330 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by rajeshnat » 08 Oct 2017, 19:19

jhnlasik posted this on Dec 2007 wrote:
in 1987 , Prof. TRS and his student Smt.Radha Venkatachalam made the following report card after analyzing many of the yesteryear musicians. I like to see similar report on the present day artists.

http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/sGAq ... D%3D922037

http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/AmOe ... D%3D894606

http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/QbdW ... D%3D328521

===========================================

When this was given by Jhnlasik , I downloaded the 3 pdf .

I am not sure if the writeup is exhaustive , it may be abriged .

Also I traced lot of magazines inclusive of sruthi and tried to read more about the thesis of TRS - Radha Venkatachalam. I did not get any thing more than these 3 pdf . Few letters to the editor about this article many slam dunking TRS and very very few appreciating TRS and Rave . Most of the writeups concludes saying that - i wish he did not write that way he would have still got the coveted award.

I am without a doubt in the camp of appreciating Prof TRS and Dr RAVE, there is no slander in writing about say personal lives etc which was such a big taboo with those artists. TRS and Rave attacked excess sensationalism , zero objectivity and pure hearsay which is still there in CM .

Just may be , Dr Rave could have written few not so good things about Prof TRS Music. I am sure I can list atleast few things , but she failed to do that , she put TRS mama in such a high pedestal - these kind of big writeups should have an extremely balanced conclusion.

OR

It is just that Rave wrote every thing inclusive of TRS mama shortcomings. But as such that was not published is some thing that I have in my mind for the last few years . Some times abridged writeups just like partially using our quote in our forum will always miscommunicate.

As such Prof TRS and DR Rave had GUTS . PERIOD . There is lot of truth in what all has been written in the pdf .
Download the writeup in the below link.

http://bit.ly/2xrnmbz
Last edited by rajeshnat on 08 Oct 2017, 20:29, edited 3 times in total.
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rajeshnat
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#331 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by rajeshnat » 08 Oct 2017, 19:23

MaheshS and others
I hope you can click the above link and download the zip. The zip has 3 pdf , i am not sure the source of this article . wrote a small readme just as disclaimer so that they know they are only reading part of the thesis. THe 3 pdf is bit hazy , I recommend you can zoom a bit and take print out if you are really finding it difficult to read . Also it is tricky to read as it is column wise print of content.

When you read it first time , you feel O god on some artists and vageyakkaras he is right . Also on some artists whom you adore you may feel the thesis is not right and you may feel How can this be true for so and so ?? .

When you read it second time , you may find what was written is not that bad at all . May be there is an element of truth that you didnot know yet?

Possibly if some one publishes the original manuscript we all will be happy , for sure Prof TRS and Dr Rave are great mahanubhavulus. Period. Hoping to read the entire manuscript some time soon...
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SrinathK
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#332 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by SrinathK » 08 Oct 2017, 23:54

It so happened when I heard about the capabilities of TRS, his knowledge and his generosity as a teacher (a friend of mine learnt from him as well and would tell me how enthusiastic and dedicated he was even at that age), and was trying to find recordings of his music that I found out about this infamous thesis incident, courtesy google, the all knowing guru of modern mankind.

I even read quite a few excerpts of it, if you can call that a "Ph.D thesis" - which started somewhere from the trinity to composers and vidwans and musicologists and instrumentalists and all that was contemporary at the time) -- in my honest opinion, it was a mish mash of below average forum posts, youtube comments and a collage of random condescending gossip, hearsay, the occasional hyperbole or the pat on the back, with maybe a fact here or there that was already open knowledge anyway, at times open trolling, and some misgivings and some genuine observations that have been expressed by others in better tones. There was even a separate section taking cheap shots at the music of the great ladies...

And if you're thinking of "music criticism", the truth is that nothing and nobody is beyond it, but even criticism has standards. This was not a counter to hagiography. Some excerpts were so cringe-worthy it made me think of what would happen if faking news or the onion wrote about Carnatic Music :lol:. Some of the most condescending posts on this forum have been outdone by that draft in that regard...

Yeah, I was reminded of this :- http://www.fakingnews.firstpost.com/sni ... hone-23181 -- that's the level of satire I'm talking about, in a manuscript intended for a doctoral dissertation....

But this is the part I didn't like -- you take something like this, that wasn't even published and which should have been dispatched to the "vambu" bin right away and turned to smoke -- you bring it out in the open, pass equally sarcastic criticisms on it, use this to ruin the reputation and careers of two musicians by creating a scandal -- this is very poor journalism. There was definitely an agenda there for sure. Otherwise all this would have just come and gone off the radar. Why raid the garbage bin?

If anything, the moral of the story is never to wash dirty linen in public, and never allow flammable material to be put in writing, and never willingly fan an ember into a forest fire. Don't do trolling in the name of research. And always dispose off the trash thoroughly.

I hope I never have to discuss this incident again -- it makes me sad to think about it - a brilliant musician like TRS ending up being known for this. IMHO, All these opinions and satires that belong indoors firmly between one's two ears should have never come out in the first place. I mean, many books have been written about CM musicians where their pluses and minuses have been made known, but this thesis was trolling it. Those things ought to be left to the tigers and the porcines and sheep and trolls and all other species of anonymous rasikas, and that stinks enough already. :twisted:

There is so much about TRS mama's music I have admired -- his knowledge, diction, laya and pallavi expertise. It is now a dream of mine that will never be realized of learning pallavi singing from him. I only regret that I did not meet him (and so many others) when he was alive. Anyway, a nice RTP to take my mind of this is very much the need of the hour....
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varsha
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#333 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by varsha » 09 Oct 2017, 09:15

Anyway, a nice RTP to take my mind of this is very much the need of the hour
I settled for this
https://archive.org/details/TRS-TR-KM-M ... ndaraDAsar
:roll:
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varsha
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#334 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by varsha » 09 Oct 2017, 09:32

The tragedy - like with Anna Karenina as Tolstoy put it - was that there was never a doubt about the "Crime".
Only that the Punishment was disproportionate .
And meted out by a scurrilous guy who himself hid behind a whispering screen cheered by a whispering gallery .
https://archive.org/details/TRSParAkuMA ... ndaraDAsar
nararolage pAmararu "nAvu" .....
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MaheshS
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#335 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by MaheshS » 09 Oct 2017, 19:29

rajeshnat wrote:
08 Oct 2017, 19:23
MaheshS and others
I hope you can click the above link and download the zip. The zip has 3 pdf , i am not sure the source of this article . wrote a small readme just as disclaimer so that they know they are only reading part of the thesis. THe 3 pdf is bit hazy , I recommend you can zoom a bit and take print out if you are really finding it difficult to read . Also it is tricky to read as it is column wise print of content.
Thank you! Read it :/

Now I am going to listen to Purvi Kalyani :)
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SrinathK
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#336 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by SrinathK » 09 Oct 2017, 20:38

Is mAnava janma in mishra naDai? What tala and eduppu? (That mishra naDai is handled like child's play...)
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shanks
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#337 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by shanks » 10 Oct 2017, 23:47

Here is a unique kalyani by TRS

https://archive.org/details/TRSConcert72

The taanam and pallavi are quite unusual and intriguing.

The pallavi was composed by one of his students at Delhi - may be a year or two ago, Sruti had an issue on TRS in which there was a piece about how he encouraged/challenged his students to compose pallavis and if my memory serves right, this specific pallavi was quoted in that article.
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semmu86
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#338 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by semmu86 » 11 Oct 2017, 17:48

The Hall of Fame "1-2-3-4 Pallavi Lec-Dem" of TRS shall stand out as a testimony to the genius of the man. Pallavis have never been demystified better, for the layman and the connoisseur alike.

One can clearly see what a great guru he has been. Its one thing to have the vidwath, but totally another thing to pass it down so beautifully to the students! GOD Bless, the likes of TRS/ DKJ etc...
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SrinathK
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#339 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by SrinathK » 11 Oct 2017, 19:38

Is there a recording of that?
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varsha
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#340 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by varsha » 12 Oct 2017, 08:12

Is there a recording of that?
---
how time flies !! A decade ago we christened this track as the 1234 demo.
And it lives on....
https://archive.org/details/trs--pallavi-1-2-3-4
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rajeshnat
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#341 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by rajeshnat » 18 Jan 2018, 09:46

The below post was made by Swami , the original poster is from facebook and thanks to Priya Sisters for throwing so much pointers about Prof Mahavidwan TRS
......

Post by Swami » 30 Dec 2017 17:50

hello sir,

below I took it from their Fans page. Please find the consolidated

Simply no words to describe the amazing lecture demonstration today on Prof. T.R. Subramanian's pallavis by Priya Sisters.
Within the short time they had, they covered Prof. TRS' pallavis based on:

1) gopucha yati
2) srotovaha yati in the purvangam
3) srotovaha yati in both the purvangam and uttarangam
4) mridanga yati
5) sama yati
6) multiple yatis in the same line
7) raga mudra
8) raga tala mudra
9) trikalam in the same line
10) svaraksharam
11) puns
12) different kalams (speeds) in the same line
13) jatis/solkattus
14) vishama arudi
15) dwiragams
16) existing sahitya lines
17) composers

They shared a lot of interesting ideas on how to do neraval for these, how to put kalpana swarams etc.
They ended the session with a pallavi in the raga gAnamurti composed by them as a tribute to Prof. TRS.
They had requested TRS mama for one in this raga but he passed away unexpectedly before he could revert to them.
They also sang a similar one in the raga chandrajoti.


A list of Pallavi's of their Guru Prof TRS presented and explained by Priya Sisters. It's almost impossible to write all what they explained but a small effort to atleast list the pallavis. What a fantastic presentation by the Sister's. We hope we have many more such wonderful lecture demonstration's by them, giving rasikas an insight to the wonderful compositions of their Guru Prof TRS.

1. Pallavi in Hindolam " Muruganai Guhanai Ninai Nee Maal Maraganai Sharavananai " [Gopucha Yati]

2. In Poorvikalyani " Maa Umaa Vinumaa Brovumaa Maayammaa Maatanga Kanya Maravaku ][Shrotovaha Yati]

3. In Reetigowla " Velavaa Yennai Aalavaa Enkurai Teerkavaa Murugaa Shanmugaa" [Complete Shrotovaha Yati]

4. In Poorvikalyani "Paarvati Parameshwari Chamundeshwari Parvata Kumari Haranaayaki" [Mrudanga Yati]

5. In Poorvikalyani "Aadi Sankaram Ati Dayaakaram Aarsha Guruvaram Aham Bhaje Aharnisham Aacharyam" [Sama Yati]

6.In Todi "Sharavananai Muruganai Guhanai Ninai Nidam Padame Tudisheyvaai Nee Arule Perave Tiru" [All Yati's - Gopucha , Shrotovaha , Sama]
------------------------------------------------------------
Next Raaga Mudra Pallavi's

7. In Hamsadhwani "Hamsadhwani Sahite Dhwani Sahite Sahite Hite Te Namaste"

8. In Charukeshi " Suhasihi Agha Naashini Chaarukeshini Sundari Paradevata Parashiva Mohini"

9. " Ranjani Niranjani Bhavabhanjani Sadaa Paahimaam Maarajanai Mahaalakshmi Haripriye"

10. In Bindumaalini " Enduko Neekrupa Raadu Bindumaalini Maa Talli"

11. In Shanmukharpiya " Sharanu Vaibhave Shamale Shive Shanmukhapriye Shankari Vashankari Shivashankari"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Pallavi's having Taala Mudra.

12. Pallavi in Kalyani having Raaga Taala (Roopaka) Mudra "Kalyani Mamukaavumu Kamaneeya Roopakalyani Roopa Kalyani"

13. Pallavi in Hamsadhwani having Taala (Adi) Mudra " Karam Shubhakaram Mohana Karam Bhajeham Aadi Devam Ahibhushanam"
----------------------------------------------------------------
14. Trikaala Pallavi " Dasaratha Tanayuni Maravaku Manasa Dinamu Kshanamu"

15. Trikaala Pallavi "Triyambakanai Maheshwaranai Sadaashivane Maname Dinamu Tudishai"
----------------------------------------------------------------
Swaraakshara Pallavi's

16. "Sa Ri Ga Ma Pa Da Ni Sa Paadega Saamagaanamruta Saaramagu"

17. " Sammanamaa Sabhapathe Sadaashiva Sakala Daivamu Unaku Sari "
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raagamalika

18. In Kharaharapriya "Velai Panivade Nam Velai Adi Kaalai Avan Kaalai Vadi"
And change over to Bowli at '......Adi Kaali Avan kaalai....
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Pallavi Line in different Speeds
19. In Poorvikalyani " Meenakshi Me mudam Dehi Sadaa Paradevi Parashiva Jaaye Marakatamani Chaaye"

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pallavi's involving Jatis

20. " Tattadhimi Tatadhimi Tadhimi Anisadaa Shivudu Bahuchakkaga Natanamu Aadevu"

21. "Dhitai Dhi Dhi tai Yendradu Daivame Tai "
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dwi Raaga Pallavi

22. In Vasanta and Mohana "Ellapaudu Vasanta Rutuve Mohana Krishnuni Dayayunte"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pallavi Based in Jaavali

23. "Vega Todi Teve Saamini YelarAdAyane Kaamini"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
24. Pallavi in Nayaki " Rangapathe Paahimaam Ranganaayaki Sameta Sri"

25. Pallavi on Saint Tyagaraja and Saint Annamacharya "Tyagayya Annamayya Bhagavatotamulu ???"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Priya Sister's concluded with a Pallavi in Gaanamurthey
A pallavi in tribute to their Guru Prof TRS composed by them.
"Guru Murthey Sangeetha Spurthey Gandharva Gaanamurthey Akhanda Keerthe Subramanya"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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semmu86
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#342 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by semmu86 » 18 Jan 2018, 10:26

Some of the above Pallavis are demonstrated by the great man himself, in his 1-2-3-4 Lec-Dem recording. The Genius of the man lives on!
What a vidhwan!
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shankarank
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#343 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by shankarank » 03 Mar 2018, 11:29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4jmoMivUew

Please don't miss the mInakshi mEmudam towards the end. He enjoys kARvai in each syllable, produces music with syllabic intervals alone, nothing else. The svara, sounds , just dripping paint for him!

Smt. T. Rukmini such a support.

Sri Kamalakar Rao - what a confident gait and surety in his playing!
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rajeshnat
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#344 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by rajeshnat » 20 Apr 2018, 09:59

2 weeks back when i wrote a review of Abhishek crt, I asked a question as to who else sings the below krithi as I heard for the first time :

sadAshiva bhajanamE - todi - papanasam sivan

One friend/accquintance sent me a personal note that Taala Raaga Swaroopan (TRS )has sung this. I have not heard the sadashiva bhajanamE of papanasam sivan sung by TRS. Any pointers from any one preferably recording link ? Crama- have you heard this krithi from TRS
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CRama
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#345 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by CRama » 23 Apr 2018, 13:19

I have never heard this Thodi song of Papanasam Sivan from TRS.
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sathreya
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#346 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by sathreya » 10 Sep 2018, 07:57

Hi

I am no longer able to find this 1973 concert of Shri TRS

https://chowdaiahandparvati.blogspot.co ... rough.html

The gajavadana beduve and the Paramadbhuta Maina are imprinted in my mind, and I would love to be able to access it again.

If I am not mistaken, Sachi was kind enough to get us access to these recordings from Parvathi, so if he could please oblige, id be much grateful.
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Sachi_R
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#347 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by Sachi_R » 10 Sep 2018, 12:05

Am at it. Hope I can find the tracks.
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Sachi_R
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#348 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by Sachi_R » 13 Sep 2018, 08:00

Happy Vinayaka Chaturthi!

Sathreya and all,
The tracks are working!
Please note you need to access the site and embedded audio files via a browser that supports flash
Take care
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CRama
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#349 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by CRama » 13 Sep 2018, 21:58

Heard the above concert. Brilliant. Thanks Sachi.
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Sachi_R
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#350 Re: T.R. Subramaniam

Post by Sachi_R » 13 Sep 2018, 22:33

🙏
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