Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Ideas and innovations in Indian classical music
kvchellappa
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#51 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by kvchellappa » 18 Nov 2015, 07:14

Now, I get it. We should be careful to preserve Mudduswamy.
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MaheshS
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#52 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by MaheshS » 09 Dec 2015, 17:29

So I was reading Mahaperiyava's commentary on Sri Subramanyaya Namasthe [Link], and he says the following,
Muthuswami Dikshitar has much connection with Subrahmanya. He has been to, and sung in praise of, many kshetras and Gods, just as Adisankara has. But in his devotion (upAsanA), he has been known to be a 'dEvi upAsakA' - he even breathed his last singing 'mIna lOchani pAcha espressoni' on Meenakshi. But his birth, beginning of his composing career, were are all associated with Subrahmanya.

His very name, Muthuswami, is that of Muthukumaraswami, the deity at Vaidheeswaran koil. His father, Ramaswami Dikshitar - scholar, musician and Srividya devotee - was without an issue till he was forty. He visited Vaidheeswaran koil with his wife and fasted for 45 days (one mandalam). His wife then had a dream as if someone was tying coconut, fruits and other 'mangalavastu' on her womb. And soon she became pregnant. The couple understood that Subrahmanya had granted their wish and that the dream meant this. And a boy was born on 'krithikai' day in the month of Phalguni or Panguni. That boy was Muthuswami.
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hanquill
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#53 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by hanquill » 01 Jan 2016, 12:40

I think it is better to have our discussion on music only than too much branching off..Great scholar (late) uesed to tell as.Muthuswamy Dikskhithar.only.I think it is time to conclude.
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hanquill
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#54 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by hanquill » 01 Jan 2016, 12:43

Sorry ommision:great scholar Dr.srivatsa.
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thanjavooran
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#55 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by thanjavooran » 06 Jan 2016, 19:51

As per Jaya TV ' s slide shown on the song list of Rajesh Vaidhya's veena program today it is Muthu Kumarasami DIkshadar.
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rshankar
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#56 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by rshankar » 07 Jan 2016, 02:15

Sri Tanjavooran - spellings on TV, CD/DVD/cassette sleeves are not worth the paper/screen they're written on. It doesn't mean anything at all, and its authenticity is questionable at best....
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GloriainExcelsisDeo
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#57 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by GloriainExcelsisDeo » 26 Oct 2018, 14:57

To the wide ranging and lofty earlier posts from 3 years ago, I would like to add my ONE cent:

Please see NBT's 1968 Dikshitar biography by TL Venkatarama Aiyar. It clearly traces Dikshitar's lineage from 2 generations earlier, from Virinchipuram (Vellore area). This biography in the first few pages explains the family tradition about his birth including his naming., the forty days puja at Vaitheeswaran Kovil, the Devi appearing in a dream presenting a muktaahaaram and the self reference in Bhaja re re. Please read the preface, and then the first 5 pages. The cavalry attack mentioned there sounds like one during the Carnatic wars, which ended in 1763. The preface gives the author's momentous meeting with Ambi Dikshitar aka Muthuswami Dikshitar, the son of Subbarama Dikshitar, at Ettayapuram in 1931. Ambi Dikshitar was named after his ancestor, Muthuswami. Sounds quite authentic. People were just freer with spelling and terminology in earlier times. Since the NBT book was printed for a national or global audience, the kriti is listed in Devanagari (apparently with the chh to satisfy sandhi). Btw Dikshitar has used many "non" dictionary words. One example are the Tantric syllables in many kritis. So using a Tamil name as such, as it is his personal name, could be the case. Rangaramanuja Iyengar's comment that someone quoted above from the Tamil book, would therefore IMHO surprise me as to the need of it being noteworthy.

I cannot comment on so many learned authors using Mudduswami in their works. Of two people, I can say something. Rangaramanuja Iyengar ploughed a lonely furrow. He did tremendous work but he was also highly opinionated in his time, railing against Sabhas and Carnatic music reaching out to the public and so forth. Including he, authors were not as precise as the modern day in terminology and usage. TKG's compilations are terrific references. But, I know from people who helped him with Telugu and Sanskrit in the 90s, that his grasp of the different languages was not expert level. This was when he was getting his books ready for publication in final form, that is not even an initial draft when you are testing the water, but close to completion. Even so, some errors have definitely come into his books. So I would not take his, as the last word on the "Muthuswami" question.

To me, the NBT book seems convincing enough that it is Muthuswami. If you don't like it, can I have my one cent back :)
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GloriainExcelsisDeo
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#58 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by GloriainExcelsisDeo » 28 Oct 2018, 03:45

Would like to add a couple of things for completion: TL Venkatarama Aiyar was the one who brought Ambi Dikshitar to Chennai, as he says so in the preface. He goes to great lengths to say repeatedly that there is little direct evidence of anything and the Dikshitar legends being many, he will restrict himself to those where there is a clear family tradition of an incident, and there is something else like a putative reference in a kriti to support it. The book mentions the patronage of the Manali Mudaliar of the day to Ramaswami Dikshitar, but does not mention the kanakabishekam incident. It also refers to the later Manali Mudaliar (AKC) of the "staff notation" fame, and adds a few details about the family like being dubashes but does not note when they turned Christian, which is germane to their still supporting Carnatic music. The book also clearly states the family had always been Tamil by saying so, and also by being silent about something: families transplanted into Tamil country those days, did remember their antecedents, like Kakarla for Tyagaraja. The patashala where Ramaswami Dikshitar first studied, seems to be the Rajavedapatashala set up by Govinda Dikshitar, who was of Kannada Smartha origin. No such details being given, from direct family tradition, safe to way they were Tamil all along, and so no reason to disbelieve it is Muthuswami.
GloriainExcelsisDeo wrote:
26 Oct 2018, 14:57
To the wide ranging and lofty earlier posts from 3 years ago, I would like to add my ONE cent:

Please see NBT's 1968 Dikshitar biography by TL Venkatarama Aiyar. It clearly traces Dikshitar's lineage from 2 generations earlier, from Virinchipuram (Vellore area). This biography in the first few pages explains the family tradition about his birth including his naming., the forty days puja at Vaitheeswaran Kovil, the Devi appearing in a dream presenting a muktaahaaram and the self reference in Bhaja re re. Please read the preface, and then the first 5 pages. The cavalry attack mentioned there sounds like one during the Carnatic wars, which ended in 1763. The preface gives the author's momentous meeting with Ambi Dikshitar aka Muthuswami Dikshitar, the son of Subbarama Dikshitar, at Ettayapuram in 1931. Ambi Dikshitar was named after his ancestor, Muthuswami. Sounds quite authentic. People were just freer with spelling and terminology in earlier times. Since the NBT book was printed for a national or global audience, the kriti is listed in Devanagari (apparently with the chh to satisfy sandhi). Btw Dikshitar has used many "non" dictionary words. One example are the Tantric syllables in many kritis. So using a Tamil name as such, as it is his personal name, could be the case. Rangaramanuja Iyengar's comment that someone quoted above from the Tamil book, would therefore IMHO surprise me as to the need of it being noteworthy.

I cannot comment on so many learned authors using Mudduswami in their works. Of two people, I can say something. Rangaramanuja Iyengar ploughed a lonely furrow. He did tremendous work but he was also highly opinionated in his time, railing against Sabhas and Carnatic music reaching out to the public and so forth. Including he, authors were not as precise as the modern day in terminology and usage. TKG's compilations are terrific references. But, I know from people who helped him with Telugu and Sanskrit in the 90s, that his grasp of the different languages was not expert level. This was when he was getting his books ready for publication in final form, that is not even an initial draft when you are testing the water, but close to completion. Even so, some errors have definitely come into his books. So I would not take his, as the last word on the "Muthuswami" question.

To me, the NBT book seems convincing enough that it is Muthuswami. If you don't like it, can I have my one cent back :)
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GloriainExcelsisDeo
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#59 Re: Mudduswamy or Mutthuswamy Dikshithar

Post by GloriainExcelsisDeo » 30 Oct 2018, 23:57

Long story short, the naming history of Dikshitar aside, in writing from South Indians in the early part of the last century, particularly of the erstwhile Madras Presidency, I have come across other muthus, whose names are given as muddu in English, but as muthu in Tamil, and heard people of those times, who are nonagenarians now, simply read "muddu" and pronounce it as "muthu". My point is, there are two issues here. How was Dikshitar named? and What are the relevant spelling conventions? Dikshitar as per Ambi Dikshitar was named after Muthukumaraswami, or Muthuswami for short. Muddu is just an alternate, older English spelling for muthu, like neo and new, connexion and connection, from a time when they put up with Trichinopoly, Tinnevelly and Trivandrum. We just wouldn't write Mudduswami in the present day. That seems to be all there is to it.
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