Learning of the violin - sahitya or swara

[kedaram]

I have been learning violin for a number of years now but never really had much interest in learning when I was younger. But after listening to many of the old masters, my desire to play has now become nothing short of an obsession!

But herein lies the problem.

After a marathon practice session of 8hrs playing only the ragam kamboji, I came face to face with a startling reality.

I remember coolkarni mentioning an anecdote where his father asked him to determine if t.n.krishnan really soaks his bow in honey before concerts. I found that I don't have a problem playing the alapana or rendering a difficult (but also majestic) dikshitar composition in kamboji but the so called "magic" is lacking. All I need to do is to put down my violin and press play on the computer to bring me down to earth while listening to lalgudi belting out some magical swaras with mmi or t n krishnan literally "sing" a pallavi on the violin.

Im not trying to compare my playing with that of those two great souls. No, No - but I was just trying to get an idea of why their bows produce the magic that they do. Thinking abt this for a long time yesterday I came to the conclusion that they werent really playing the violin. They merely made the violin an extension of their vocal chords.

Let me explain what I am trying to say here. You see when I play the violin, there was a time when I learned all the songs by just swaras alone. The first few songs and varnams that I learnt, ex. vathapi, deva deva (mayamalava), ramanannu (harikambodhi) were all learnt and still remembered in my brain as Ga;; Ri; Sa; - Sa; ri ga; m - and Pa ma ga; ga... i.e. just the swarastanas alone. As I became a more advanced student, I finally learned to play sangathis by the ear but it seems that the old crutch of just playing the swaras refused to go away. Especially on complicated sangathis, the sahitya in my head dissapears and I am once again just working through swaras with sahitya bowing so to speak.

I am not saying that I do that all the time but it happens more often than I would like and I am wondering whether this is a direct result of the way I initially learned or whether it is something every student faces before moving on to the "next level". The reason is that in western music there are methods like suzuki that emphasise playing by the ear and there is the traditional way that starts from musical notation and somewhere along the lines the two methods merge and the end product of both the schools are exemplary violinists who can not only play brilliantly by looking at notation but also pick up sangathis by ear.

Is it the same case with our music as well? I hope so.

[thanjavooran]

I remember to hv noticed Dwaram VSNaidu selecting a particular bow while playing RTP. besides style of bowing does a different bow itself add melody to music. Just curious to know more about this.

[msakella]

Dear b/s-member, kedaram, To speak in a language fluently and efficiently one has to gather wide vocabulary, know how and where to use each word of them, become able to use the correct word when needed. These things are essential in respect of a language, which is visible and available in books. But, in respect of music, which is only audible but not visible like a language, it is very difficult to become a professional unless one starts his study in music in an early age, learns in a disciplined manner from an efficient teacher (but not an efficient performer), makes regular and KNOWLEDGEABLE practice for hours together for many years. By making that kind of practice VIOLIN itself our Guru. This my personal experience. amsharma.

[coolkarni]

By making that kind of practice VIOLIN itself our Guru.

Reminds me of the joke where a young lady who has lost her way in London and late for a Concert , stops and enquires from a violinist , playing near a park for alms -

"Which is the surest way to the Royal Albert Hall ?"

The man stops playing and after reflecting for a while ,replies

"Practice.My Dear Lady, Practice.Thats the surest way."

[kedaram]

Thank you Sharmaji and Coolji for the encouragement! I'm off to listen to more recordings and try and replicate some sangathis!

Tvooran - I dont think the bow itself can add much melody to the music (unless of course we are talking about a difference in the quality of the instrument itself) but quite often it can be selected to suit the STYLE of the music. Perhaps Naidu sir would choose a bow that was strung tighter and was more "rosined" for lack of a better term to play some of the more "stachato - thanam" type phrases required. Perhaps far more knowledgeble ppl like Sharmaji might be able to come up with a simpler more technical answer.

[Suji Ram]

Kedaram,
I too have similar problems as you are facing with respect to swaras sticking in the head. I am not as advanced as you are though.

I had learnt a dozen varnams long back -
and now when I play them I am not happy at all because I keep shifting from swara to sahitya.

So now, I made it a point to learn only sahitya for varnams after initial practice with swara (before they stick in my head) and I am personally satisfied with the 4 NEW varnams I have learnt recently. The old ones will never change!!

With regards to kritis it is better to play sangathis with sahityam in mind.

As for playing like a pro...even if I get "few phrases" like the great masters I feel thrilled.

I have recently even changed violin (better one) and it does make a big difference!
Call this my obession too!

[msakella]

Dear b/s-members, If the Violin is of reasonably good quality and if the Violinist can bring out melodious music then we can enjoy the melody of it. Melody will not remain either in our playing fingers or hands or in the bow. It remains in the Violinist’s mind and if the Violin, the bow, the hands, the fingers etc., properly co-operate with the artist, then only, he can bring out melodious music.

Playing an Alapana of a Raga differs with the playing other divisions of Manodharma Sangita in which the rhythm is included in a slightly restricted manner in Tana and in a fully restricted form of Tala in Pallavi, Niraval and Svarakalpana. That is why it is very difficult to justify with the rhythmical intricacies of Pallavi, Niraval and Svarakalpana unless the individual gets proper acquaintance with all of them making heavy regular and knowledgeable practice. Even though people mistake me I always harp upon regular and knowledgeable practice only.

If you are finding the way of playing some of the Varnas defective, that is not the defect of the Varnas but your playing method of Varnas only
.
In Violin play, you may call it staccato or with any other name, but there is a particular technique of using the bow while playing Tana. Unlike any other Violinist upon earth, Shri M.S.Gopalakrishnan has mastered this technique.

While practicing Swara-bow each Svara has to be played with an individual bow and a continuous moving bow from one end to the other is called Sahitya-bow. It is told that while playing the Sahitya the direction of the bow should strictly change for each letter of the lyric. But, it is essential to note that this is not possible to strictly follow this rule while playing some of the Varnas.

Some people praise some Violinists that they are able to reproduce each and every letter of the lyric of the composition of Tyagaraja successfully. But, I doubt, can they follow the lyric of any other un-known composition of other un-known composer, which they do not know? Like this, there are so many facets to be discussed and I shall, better, put a full stop here and try, later, to bring some of these techniques through some video clippings to become helpful to the aspirants. amsharma.

[kedaram]

Suji Ram - Good to know someone has a similiar issue with sahityam as well and am glad you mentioned that the "old ones will never change!" because I thought there was just something wrong with me. hope things work out for you too

Sharmaji - I don't mistake your intentions on telling us to practice sir! I am kicking myself for not practicing enough and going off to play tennis instead while I was in high school. I am honoured that someone as knowledgeble as you is willing to share their experience and wisdom with us. I have some questions about playing however that I hopefully will be able to convey correctly in writing.

1) One of the strings on my violin strings snapped (the right most "P" string) and I am not sure what to buy. The strings on my violin have changed quite a few times but my teacher was there to replace them for me and I never actually saw what he bought. Western music stores have hundreds of string choices all written in western musical notation and I am rather confused. They tune to E A D G correct? and therefore there are 4 different strings are they not? Since we tune ours to S P S P (no idea what they are in western notation!) do we purchase 2 of the same strings. ( I dont think so considering that they work at different octaves) Also they seem to use strings of different characteristics. Some that vibrate more, are brighter, are mellower, have longer "reaction times" etc. etc. This put me on a very awkward spot at the violin store as the store owner looked at me quite puzzled and he was probably wondering whether I have ever played a violin before or not.

2) My second question pertains to that of playing. Recently in order to improve my ability to play certain ragas, I have been practicing playing all the notes from low s to high S on the same string for many varnams that I know. While my playing ability has certianly improved from this exercise, I find that although played correctly, the notes played on that string never sounds as good as when played on the P string. Even playing P alone on both strings produces a note that sounds slightly different even if the tuning is correct. I think it is just my violins inability to sound good when played high on the finger board, but it could be just me!

3) I find that when I play raga alapanas, my playing deteriorates to a purely swara exercises played with one bowing action. Is this cause for concern? My play has GREATLY improved after listening to the masters sing. Perhaps I just need to listen more and apply what I am listening more.....

[Suji Ram]

Kedaram,
You need to buy E string.
Any instrument shop will be able to help you if you show them physically on the violin which string snapped!
A violin is a violin..

msakella garu,
I was taught to play 2 swaras for each bowing for playing swaras for varnams in first speed and 4 swaras for each bowing in second speed for purvanga part.
Then for mukthayi swaras single bowing for both speed. Then offcourse single bowing for all cittaswaras.
I do not have problem playing swaras for varnams.

For sahitya I do play the bowing as you stated. No problems there.

The real probem is remembering the sahitya in mind while playing sahitya only. Because we are first taught to play swaras and then sahitya, the mind switches to swaras easily (maybe I found it easier or say I skipped learning it properly when I was younger or thought nobody really can tell apart what I am playing). By the way learning sahitya bowing for varnams is rather hard because of long Akarams, ekaramas etc ..it seems odd at times.

That is the reason I have taken to learning sahitya only from now on so that I will not take the easy route of fooling myself -and really feel happy that finally sahitya only is flowing in my mind.

Please do let me know your style of bowing. Eager to see that.
And thanks for all your advice.

[kedaram]

Suji Ram - Thats exactly what I showed them at the shop when they asked me what I tune it to I suddenly got this weird idea that we may use differnt strings. But I got my violin equipped with the new string now. Thank you. I decided to try out this "gut" string with steel over the top of it. It definitely reduces the "twang" on the higher swaras. I agree with you that long akarams make the bowing difficult indeed. Maybe Sharmaji will help us there.

Here's a little info on Sharmaji himself. Quoted off an interview with him
"I used to play mridangam from the age of three, and in my 17th year I learnt the violin."
That is truly inspirational sir! Gives me the incentive to practice more! Maybe 20 is not too late after all...

[msakella]

28-06-2007:
Dear b/s-members, kedaram & sujuram,
In Western system they tune the Violin to E-A-D-G. According to our system our Shruti-1 corresponds with their C, our 1 ½ is their C-sharp, 2 is D, 2 ½ is D-sharp, 3 is E.(no 3 ½ or E-sharp), 4 is F, 4 ½ is F-sharp, 5 is G, 5 ½ is G-sharp, 6 is A, 6 ½ is A-sharp, 7 is B (again no 7 ½ or B-sharp). Thus, our Shrutis, 1, 1 ½, 2, 2 ½, 3, 4, 4 ½, 5, 5 ½, 6, 6 ½ & 7 correspond their C, C #/b, D, D #/b, E, F, F #/b, G, G #/b, A, A #/b, B respectively. Accordingly, in their G-D-A-E, while G corresponds our Shadja in Shruti-5, D, in our terms, is our Panchama of the previous G, A, is our Panchama of the previous D and E is our Panchama of the previous A – thus, to explain in our terms, they start tuning their Violin with Mandra-shadja in our Shruti-5, tune the next string to the Panchama of the previous Mandra-shadja which we call it Mandra-panchama, tune the next string again to the Panchama of the previous Mandra-panchama which, in our terms, call it Chatusshruti-rishabha and tune the next string in the right extreme again to the Panchama of the previous string which, in our terms, call it Chatussshruti-dhaivata. Thus, from right to left, while we always tune our Violins to S-P-S-P in each and every Shruti, they always have their Violins are tuned permanently to G-D-A-E. Even the Violin-strings, they manufacture them accordingly in suitable guage of their tuning. So, when I was using the strings of the brands, Pirastro or Thomastic, which are of the best quality, I have purchased all the strings of various gauges of these brands, measured the guage i.e., the thickness or thinness of each string with micro-guage-indicator, noted down on a paper, made experiments umpteen times, chosen the strings with suitable gauge to meet my needs of pressure of the strings on the finger-board of my Violin. In those days I have purchased the ‘stain-less-steel-string-coils’ - Roslau - German-make - bearing guage numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and so on measuring their guage to have the suitable guage to different Shrutis. In those days there was nobody to guide me either in music or getting out good sound of my Violin or the playing technique of the violin or any other related thing of music. You may believe it or not, but for the Almighty’s grace I would have directly gone to Hell in all these matters relating to music.

No doubt, playing Gamaka on a single string is a very good practice. But, in practicing this there are many kinds and, being a practical subject, it is not possible to give all those details here. It is better to explain all such things through some video clippings. I am trying to prepare some practical lessons of Violin teaching and get these thing done through some of our friends in ‘rasikas’, like our brother-member, vasanthakokilam , who took all the pains in uploading the CD, ‘AMS Easy methods’ to bring it within the reach of each and every aspirant. Please allow me a little time to enale me to do it for all our brothers and sisters.

The seeds of playing techniques of Svarakalpana and Ragalapana should be sown right from the beginning of the preliminary exercises Efficient teaching plan including the teaching of 9 or 10 Varnas with a logical approach should successfully make an aspirant play Svarakalpana and Ragalapana reasonably even before the completion of those Varnas. There is a perfect formula to decide the future of an aspirant within the duration of the first 6 months and later to shape him as a successful accompanist and soloist. I shall try to bring this out through my video clippings in near future for the benefit of our aspirants.

Among the bow-techniques main varieties are of two and they are Sahitya-bow and Svara-bow. Sahitya-bow must be taught at first and, in it, the bow should be used to from one end to the other while playing the Gamaka exercises. One bow per each note is played in Svara-bow. I did never teach two notes per bow or 4 notes per bow or 8 notes per bow to any one of my students. I feel these things very minor in bow-techniques and they are like eating the chatny leaving away the idlies. One should become able to play entire Varna with Sahitya-bow, svara-bow, Tanam-bow, Taakita-taakita-bow, kitataka-kitataka-bow and jumping bow. I shall try to play and demonstrate all these things in my video clippings for the benefit of the aspirants.

Of course, to learn Violin, 20 years of age is late but not too late, if you are properly taught, initiated and guided. You are always welcome to ask me any of your doubts and, being far away from you, I shall try to do what I can. amsharma.

[shanks]

Kedaram,
Choosing from the myriad of manufacturers and products within is a tough task for sure.

A couple of brands that do well for lower pitch that indian violinists tune to are Dominant and Pirastro Chromacor; the latter one sounds bright while the Dominant has a good bass. Gut strings are not bright and will not play well in pitches other than the EADG combo.

Also buy these as sets and change the strings as sets - changing one at a time other than the E string which snaps more frequently is not a good idea. Changing once in 6-9 months is desirable.

What pitch do you play at? With the standard string set playing at anything below F dramatically brings down the quality of sound produced by the violin however good the violin may be.

BTW, Dwaram VN played at F or around F in his solo concerts. Also his daughter Dwaram Mangatayaru continues to play the very same violin that her father used to play in.

Shankar

[sbala]

This thread is really awesome with a young student full of questions, an expert teacher ready to share his knowledge, other learners pitching in with their experience as well and lot of technical stuff. I'm just relishing the ringside view and have just taken the liberty of straying onto the field( with good intentions ) I hope the mods can start a separate sticky thread on Carnatic Instruments.

[Suji Ram]

Indeed a lot of information flowing in different aspects of violin .

While it is true that no matter what violin, strings, bows one uses- music flowing through the mind is what comes out- I still need some information on how to improve the quality of sound produced from the violin.

msakella garu, Shanks,
First question
I have a violin with strings(I do not know which kind) which only plays well at E shruti (3 kattai) and above. Below that shruti it produces rasping sound and the strings seem loose especially high pa string.
I want to change the string(s) especially because the high Pa string plays as if someone is screeching on top of their voice. The rest are fine.
Will changing the strings to "Dominant" help since it has good bass? Then I can set the shruti accordingly to get pleasing sound.

Second.
I have a "made in india" violin which I have been practising until now.
It has a higher bridge -which means strings are held higher . I get blisters playing our gamaka oriented music. The violin plays good only at C, C# but still I am never satisfied.
Can this violin be repaired by changing the bridge to a lower height?

Until I started the new violin I never realised the pleasure of playing (a good) violin.

Any input will be appreciated.

[Suji Ram]

28-06-2007:
Tanam-bow, Taakita-taakita-bow, kitataka-kitataka-bow and jumping bow. I shall try to play and demonstrate all these things in my video clippings for the benefit of the aspirants.

I would love to know the above techniques....

[msakella]

Dear b/s-member, sujiram, Improving the quality of sound from the Violin depends upon the suitably aligned strings, good-finger-board, good-bridge, bow with the required shape, good instrument, proper aligned bridge with the sound-post, good fingering, good synchronization of both the hands, good sense of sound etc., etc. Every time different kinds of doubts crop up unless all these lots of such things are demonstrated and defined properly in person. Even if I try to bring a video-clip with many of such details, there, always remain one thing or other to be explained. However, I shall try to do the needful as an optimist.

Our music is much Gamaka-oriented and the instrument should facilitate and inspire the player to play it enthusiastically. In respect of strings, different gauges are preferred to follow basing upon the number of Shruti and the distance between the finger-board and each string. Basing upon the pressure used to be given by the player the gauge of each string and the distance between the finger-board and each string differ. Without seeing the patient in person it is very difficult to the Doctor to diagnose the decease of the patient. In the same manner, unless I personally see the instrument and listen to its sound I also cannot prescribe the medicine. Depending upon the availability of strings of good quality and their guage I have always been used to maintain three suitable bridges with different heights for each of my two concert Violins basing upon the number of Shruti and its required strings. The height of the bridge should be decided by the chosen number of Shruti and the gauge of its strings. The height of the bridge could also be reduced by rubbing the bridge on a sand-paper and reducing its height to the required level. Going on reducing the size of your bridge whenever you change the set of strings is not at all desirable and in such case you have to maintain a stock of bridges which is not possible and desirable. Bridge is the most important part through which the sound of the Violin becomes pleasant or un-pleasant and every bridge is not suitable to every Violin. You may believe it or not, I have changed nearly 2 or 3 dozens of bridges of foreign make in a span of 12 years and, at last, after finding a suitable German bridge and got a pleasant sound out of it, I have started using it in my concerts. That is the Violin I have played in my concert-trip to Britain, Canada and USA in 1980 along with my Guruji Shri Nedunuri Krishna Murthy. If you bring your Violin to me I shall make the minor repairs to get good sound out of it.
In my video clippings I shall try to demonstrate the usage of the bow in producing different Jati-groups. amsharma.

[kaapi]

Sharma Garu,
Thanks. Very Useful advice.

[Suji Ram]

msakella garu,
Thank you so much for all your input.
There was something about the bridge that I always thought should be the big reason. And now you told me you have changed dozens.
I will bring my patient home when I visit India and you are the specialist.

Meanwhile I will try to record nattakurinji varna with swara bow and put the link here.

[kedaram]

Thanks for answering my questions patiently Sharmaji and Shanks.

I tune at 4 - F. I found this is about as low as I could go before my violin stopped sounding like a violin!

Thanks to all of you I now have a much better understanding of the correlation between our tuning and western tuning as well as the strings that work well with our instruments.

However, as both of you mentioned before, different strings of different gauge suit different sruthis. I guess that was the confusion that I had earlier. I think I made a fairly decent buy with my gut sting but as shanks mentioned it isnt as bright as my other steel strings. Henceforth I will endevour to change all of them together but I would like to know from your experience the strings I should buy for a certain sruthi.

I also have an interesting question. As I have been learning violin, I realised I never had the opportunity to accompany anybody (barring a few other students) and I realised that accompaniment is a big part of music. One of the things I do nowadays is to start playing concerts of the old masters, reduce the high freq components (almost always the violin) and try and play along with them. It does make me feel REALLY REALLY good by the way. Me accompanying the great stalwarts. But I am hoping Sharmaji can give us an insight into the mind of an accompanist who performed at the highest levels. For one thing, I am wondering how the violinist keeps up with the difference in styles of many artists who perform. Especially those who have learnt with a slightly different style from that which you have learnt. A great example would be to listen to M. D. Ramanathan sing a heart wrenching thyagaraja kirthanai and realise that those sangathis can never be taught or replicated. There is too much a mixing of his personality and feeling in them. So what does the violinist do in that case. Also, what happens when one has not learnt a particular song. I guess that is the importance of having a large and varied repetoire but I do not think that the songs sung by the vocalist will match 100% with the knowledge of the violinist. I have heard a few concerts of chembai where he literally "teaches" the violinist a new krithi as he sings. It is just a thing of beauty to hear and the violinist has lived up to it admirably!

Thanks again for your patient replies. I thank god for the bhagyam of being able to ask these questions to ppl so knowlegble. I guess thats why I love this forum!

[msakella]

Dear b/s-member, sujiram, You can even send your patient through somebody
and I shall do the needful and send it back through the same person. In such case, you can send me an account of your feelings with your Violin. Each and every instrument has a quality whether good or bad and, even if you try your level best, you cannot increase or decrease its quality. But, we should always be optimistic and there is nothing wrong in doing the needful. If you video-record a clipping of your Violin play of the Varna either in Natakuranji or Darbar, in two degrees of speed of both Purvanga and Uttaranga (but not any other Varna) and send it by ‘You-tube’ I shall be able not only to listen to it but also to see your finger-technique and also assess the things properly. Do so. With best wishes, amsharma

[msakella]

Dear b/s-member, kedaram, Always it is better to tune the Violin to 2 ½ (D-sharp) or 3 (E) Shruti. The tension of the strings should always facilitate the player to play the different Gamakas with minimum tension. There are two kinds of instruments in our country to measure the guage and they are, 1.B.W.G -British Wire Guage -a thin round plate of stainless-steel on which different numbers are written along with holes facilitating to insert the string in the hole of a respective number and measure 2. Micro-screw-guage-indicator - with more precision than the former. While purchasing the strings it is always better to purchase Chromium-wound-stainless-steel strings which are more durable than gut strings. The selection of strings should be made keeping in view the pressure of the fingers used to be given by the artist while playing, the height of the bridge, the gap lying in-between the strings and the finger-board, the tension used by the artist in tightening the bow-hair and the Shruti. If you bring your Violin along with a stock of strings of all different guages I can do justice and give you a precicive picture of strings you should use.
You wrote that you are accompanying the music of some of the artists. OK. Very nice to hear that. But, are you able to reproduce the Sangathis of the artist as they are? If you send me a video-clipping of it I shall be able to assess the things properly by listening and seeing it. In fact, if you video-record a clipping of your Violin play of the Varna either in Natakuranji or Darbar, in two degrees of speed of both Purvanga and Uttaranga (but not any other Varna) and send it by ‘You-tube’ I shall be able not only to listen to it but also to see your finger-technique and also assess the things properly. Do so.
Some of the things you have asked me in your post have to be explained in person and some have to be demonstrated but cannot be written lest the details run for pages.
amsharma.

[vasanthakokilam]

Suji Ram wrote
The real probem is remembering the sahitya in mind while playing sahitya only. Because we are first taught to play swaras and then sahitya, the mind switches to swaras easily (maybe I found it easier or say I skipped learning it properly when I was younger or thought nobody really can tell apart what I am playing). By the way learning sahitya bowing for varnams is rather hard because of long Akarams, ekaramas etc ..it seems odd at times.

That is the reason I have taken to learning sahitya only from now on so that I will not take the easy route of fooling myself -and really feel happy that finally sahitya only is flowing in my mind.

Though this is under the "learning the violin" thread, I am wondering in general how one goes about transitioning from 'playing the swaras' to 'playing the sahitya'. 'Sathitya with the music' is in one's mind and that needs to be translated to the physical motions and techniques of the instrument without bringing swaras, the vehicle and carrier of music, into the mix, though people are initially taught with swaras on instruments. Playing the song with swaras in mind is rather like the scaffolding when putting up a building. They have to come out when the building is done. (Vocalists have a huge advantage in that regard, I suppose.)

Suji, you have accomplished that transition and can you narrate the mental/physical process you went through, for our benefit. Others with practical experience with violin and other instuments, chip in as well, please. Thanks.

[arasi]

msakella,
I am amazed at the way you show patience and offer insightful guidance to fellow members in their efforts in improving their playing skills.

VK,
I like your comparison of the scaffolding. Strange, isn't it? In order to play a kriti, you resort to notes first (the scaffolding). Once the learning process is over, off it comes (you retain the swara gnAnA of course, which comes in handy when you play kalpanA swarAs). The building that stays is your mastery of the song!

Suji,
Good to hear that you are riding the bike without training wheels!I have an odd confession to make. Though I have my share of swara gnAnA, most of my learning in CM came from listening to it. I still have problems with singing the swarAs when it comes to the panca ratnAs. Yet, I had no trouble singing some of them as a child (the sAhityA part)! Interesting. How varied we are in our relationships with CM

[msakella]

Dear b/s-members, arasi & vasanthakokilam, Thank you for your kind comments. In general subjects, generally in the class room containing 40 students, the teachers go on reading the material furnished in the text books and go on teaching the intricacies of the subject and, at last, while preparing the Teaching-diary they write that the syllabus is covered. But, in music, the Violin-teacher should make his students play in the manner in which he himself plays. There is vast difference between these two. I always recollect ‘While examining the students, you should know what a Junior student knows and you should know what a Senior student does’nt know’ once told by Sangita Kalanidhi Dr. Shripada Pinakapani. In this manner, the efficient teacher should always initiate the student to do things on his own and, thus, make him stand on his own legs. In this process the teacher has to directly teach some times, indirectly teach sometimes and inititate his/her to play sometimes, everytime passing on the required knowledge to him/her, but not mere imitation. I have made many successful experiments upon my students and, according to this easy method of teaching, I directly and very patiently teach upto Varnas only to my students and do not teach even the first Kriti but initiate them in learining the Kritis. By this, unlike all other music-teachers, I could make this teaching process time-bound and result oriented.

Playing either Svara-bow or Sahitya-bow is a matter of getting good acquaintance with the things to do. A person’s acquaintance in cycling for 4 months deffer with cycling for 4 years or 40 years. How many hours of regular practice is required to become a professional Violinist depends on the regularitiy, duration, items of practice, the finger-techniques involved in your practice, along with Metronome and so many other things,
amsharma.

[Suji Ram]

Though this is under the "learning the violin" thread, I am wondering in general how one goes about transitioning from 'playing the swaras' to 'playing the sahitya'. 'Sathitya with the music' is in one's mind and that needs to be translated to the physical motions and techniques of the instrument without bringing swaras, the vehicle and carrier of music, into the mix, though people are initially taught with swaras on instruments. Playing the song with swaras in mind is rather like the scaffolding when putting up a building. They have to come out when the building is done. (Vocalists have a huge advantage in that regard, I suppose.)

Suji, you have accomplished that transition and can you narrate the mental/physical process you went through, for our benefit. Others with practical experience with violin and other instuments, chip in as well, please. Thanks.

VK, Arasi,
I missed reading your posts the last few days..

Let me start by saying that I am learning music for my own pleasure and understanding this art. By no means this is what a teacher or musician might suggest. I had training only up to varnams on violin and I was taught swara and sahitya bowing.

As for playing Varnams now I slightly changed my style.

I start out by first listening(and singing) to the varnam in swara and sahitya several times. While playing the violin I pay a lot of attention to sahitya and group together the underlying swaras for each word which fall into one single stretch bowing and then practise with only sahitya in mind. This is the only way I can get finger and bowing memory of the sahitya into me.
As a matter of fact I actually can play swara bowing after learning sahitya bowing(kind of reverse engineering). Playing swaras are also as important as you will need them for good control, manodharma and also understanding the raga patterns.

I am not sure how it works for veena and flute. I guess it is one stroke on the string or one breath of blowing for playing each word of the sahitya.

As for playing kritis-
I do not learn by swaras at all. I try to figure out the patterns just by playing the sahitya-trail error- and offcourse knowing the scale of the raga. As much as possible I play without notations and figure out myself the phrases that make up the raga in a kriti. It is so much fun and satisfying when finally you get it. Having notations on hand is still good to cross check and learn how it is composed. It is the subtle nuances of each swara in each raga that finally bring out the beauty. I do have a long way to go....

Arasi,
I do share your experience of pancharatna singing. Yes sahityam is so easier to sing. I do fumble here and there on swaras.
For one who started first playing old hindi films songs on bulbul tara(also called banjo) all by myself in 5th grade sahitya rules for me.

[msakella]

Dear b/s-members, sujiram & vasanthakokilam, While constructing a building the scaffolding is a must to finish it and it could very well be removed, even without their trace, after finishing the construction of the building. But, swaras are not like that at all. If you have seven children and, for the time being at the time of their birth, name them as sa, ri, ga, ma, pa, da & ni and, later, if you want, you can change their names but not the persons at all. These sa-ri-ga-ma-s are representing the respective sounds of those notes and without these sounds in the mind how can one sing any composition? To tell the truth, due to lack of the required level of acquaintance with either Swara or sahitya, one can play either of it successfully. Cycling of 4 hrs.or 4 days or 4 months or 4 years or 40 years obviously reveals the deference in the level of acquaintance with that instrument, cycle. The same thing could be adjudged either with a non-professional or professional.
More over, there is much difference between an Instrumentalist and a Vocalist and, still, there is another difference between a Violinist and other Instrumentalist. While a Vocalist cannot go on singing mere swaras in his concert without any lyric at all, many of the instruments will not ficilitate to differenciate whether the player is playing either Swara or lyric and there are hundreds of instrumentalists who play only notes but not lyric at all. The main difference between a Violinist and other Instrumentalists is while all other instrumentalists can play their own music what they have already learnt the Violinist, as most of his life is accompaniment (Sahagamana, not Sahakaara) only, always he has to
Dance to others music. This is a very long discussion and I shall better stop it here. amsharma.

[srikant1987]

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