Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

History, religion and culture
harimau
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#26 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by harimau » 13 Jul 2018, 18:56

Pratyaksham Bala wrote:
13 Jul 2018, 12:06
.
Hidden agenda :-

3. In Tamil Nadu. people are advised/encouraged/brainwashed to avoid surnames,
to help non-Tamils to hide their place of origin.
During the 2009-2014 timeframe, DMK was in power, the party which is famous for "protecting" Tamil.

During some public meeting, Dinamalar reported that two cabinet ministers were having a private conversation in Telugu, their mother-tongue, while seated on the dais.

Let us just say that their children most definitely did not set themselves on fire when Tamil was in danger! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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sureshvv
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#27 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by sureshvv » 14 Jul 2018, 11:14

Pratyaksham Bala wrote:
13 Jul 2018, 12:06
.
Hidden agenda :-

3. In Tamil Nadu. people are advised/encouraged/brainwashed to avoid surnames,
to help non-Tamils to hide their place of origin.
Nothing hidden about it. This is a gesture on the part of the sensitive and aware Tamilian to shed off the baggage of caste. It is a noble and progressive gesture and we should be proud,

This Tamil/non-Tamil is another bogey of divisiveness that the cranks thrive on. Please don't encourage it.
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sankark
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#28 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by sankark » 14 Jul 2018, 21:28

Pratyaksham Bala wrote:
13 Jul 2018, 12:06
.
Hidden agenda :-

3. In Tamil Nadu. people are advised/encouraged/brainwashed to avoid surnames,
to help non-Tamils to hide their place of origin.
A new spin? What is the need for a surname in the first place?
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sankark
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#29 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by sankark » 14 Jul 2018, 22:11

And Hart's article isn't all flawless either.

In Akam 110.16, a girl from a fishing village says to an evidently high-born man that he would not like to eat fish, which is a “low” food, while in Kali. 121.20, the fish in a harbor are said to be “low.” This suggests that in ancient times, as now, fishermen were of quite low caste.
I really don't think the first sentence in the above quote can lead to the "suggestion" in the second sentence.

But if she were a widow, she would have to undertake the harshest asceticism, or even take her own life in suttee.
Sati wasn't sangam times practice to my knowledge; and neither the vedic period.

And what was lost/imputed in translations? So take it with a pinch of salt. In general any such cross cultural/language studies are better done with a jar of salt on standby for reaching immediately.

Including theatlantic or thedailybeast (or NYT or WaPo, or oh you get the gist) articles. Every such article is to some or major extent biased by the authors worldview/pov.
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shankarank
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#30 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by shankarank » 23 Sep 2018, 10:44

sureshvv wrote:
14 Jul 2018, 11:14
Nothing hidden about it. This is a gesture on the part of the sensitive and aware Tamilian to shed off the baggage of caste. It is a noble and progressive gesture and we should be proud,
That is abolishing surnames without actually abolishing the underlying the issue. All this abolishing is like a Church acting in the past. People underestimate the power of families. They cannot employ enough Women or Men to liberate them from that hold. There are not enough resources to do that!
sureshvv wrote:
14 Jul 2018, 11:14
This Tamil/non-Tamil is another bogey of divisiveness that the cranks thrive on. Please don't encourage it.
That is a legitimate issue, and the film stars coming to fore and their backgrounds do raise the suspicion justifiably. Tamils going to their roots is a welcome thing!

Film industry weaved many false stories like projecting the valor of kaTTabomman etc.!
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shankarank
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#31 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by shankarank » 23 Sep 2018, 10:50

sankark wrote:
14 Jul 2018, 21:28
A new spin? What is the need for a surname in the first place?
Surname was invented as a guide for the taxman goes the story. But many surnames like Smith and Cook point to their occupation once upon a time. Even still it will be useful for the tax man, since land ownership is still based on the old jAti hierarchy.
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sureshvv
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#32 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by sureshvv » 23 Sep 2018, 11:06

shankarank wrote:
23 Sep 2018, 10:44
That is abolishing surnames without actually abolishing the underlying the issue.
No one is abolishing them. People are just refusing to use them.

For eg., your handle here is "shankarank". Not "shankarank <your caste name>". Not because it has been abolished.
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shankarank
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#33 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by shankarank » 23 Sep 2018, 11:12

my quadrant will be obvious pretty easily once I talk! But there are many others that can hide it easily!
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shankarank
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#34 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by shankarank » 05 Oct 2018, 08:50

sankark wrote:
14 Jul 2018, 22:11
Including theatlantic or thedailybeast (or NYT or WaPo, or oh you get the gist) articles. Every such article is to some or major extent biased by the authors worldview/pov.
And what anything is unbiased view in the discourse on humanities? The one that utilizes Marxist framework? And what is wrong about a hierarchical society in the past? Every urban culture of those times required that. You cannot build a city without that!

Why should we feel bad about the jAti system of the old times? vARNA is debatable and has a burden of proof that it is beneficial! jAti is self organized . It no doubt limits humans into a prescribed sphere of activity. But why spend energy discussing it, critiquing it? In the current scenario it has largely faded in spaces where it is not relevant, like the industrial metros and such.

Entire U.S has been built taking advantage of social hierarchy. That included slave labor from Africa and China. But U.S rich people invested back to create institutions of repute. We should demand the same from Indian bigwigs, instead of letting them donate to U.S Ivy leagues for some personal benefit.

Let them create some good private universities. Lets demolish JNU and all the leftist discourses and build hospitals for jawans and the poor there!

Instead we are taking these professors so seriously!
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shankarank
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#35 Re: Prof George Hart on Tamil Society in the Sangam Era

Post by shankarank » 29 Oct 2018, 09:59

harimau wrote:
13 Jul 2018, 01:04
Through linguistic analysis they have been dated to from 1st century AD to 6th century AD.
How could that be, if there was this interregnum? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalabhra_dynasty

Dating in India by Western Indologists has high bibilical bias. Was what happened in West Asia had some global impact?
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