Songs on Nataraja

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
Ponbhairavi
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#1 Songs on Nataraja

Post by Ponbhairavi » 07 Sep 2018, 13:46

Compositions on God Nataraja of chidambaram
When I think of God Nataraja and the kshetram of Chidambaram,the songs which come. readily to my mind are the tamil compositions. Are there (m)any compositions in telegu or sanscrit by sri Thyagaraja , Sastri, or Dikshithar on thepresiding deities of Chidambaram the dancing god Nataraja or the Govindaraja ?
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MaheshS
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#2 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by MaheshS » 07 Sep 2018, 14:22

Two MD krithi's come to mind, both in Kedaram. Ananda naTana prakASam & cidambara naTarAjam.
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vijay.siddharth
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#3 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by vijay.siddharth » 07 Sep 2018, 16:02

Govindarajam Upasmahe (Mukhari) [On Govindaraja Perumal]
Chidambara Nataraja Murthim (Tanukirthi)
Last edited by vijay.siddharth on 07 Sep 2018, 17:23, edited 1 time in total.
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MaheshS
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#4 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by MaheshS » 07 Sep 2018, 16:29

vijay.siddharth wrote:
07 Sep 2018, 16:02
Govindarajam Upasmahe (Mukhari)
It's not about Natarajar though. It's about Govinda Rajar inside the Chidambaram Nataraja temple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govindara ... mal_Temple
http://guru-guha.blogspot.com/2007/11/d ... rajam.html
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vijay.siddharth
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#5 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by vijay.siddharth » 07 Sep 2018, 17:22

Thank you MaheshS. I saw the post and saw that Ponbhairavi wanted krithis on Govindaraja Perumal too, and posted Govindarajam Upasmahe. I will edit my post accordingly.
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Lakshman
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#6 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by Lakshman » 07 Sep 2018, 20:13

I found songs (non Tamil) by other composers on Nataraja:
cidambara naTarAjam. rAgA: kEdAra-Dikshitar
cidambarapurIshvaram. rAgA:dAtuvardhani-Kadalur Subramaniam
nI pada bhayamu niratamuga. rAgA: vakuLabharaNa-Madurai G.S,Mani
gaurI nAyaka (t). rAgA: kAnaDA-Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer
nigama niyamEna. rAgA: kharaharapriyA-Minakshisuta
inta bhramA pAlimpa. rAgA: shrImanOranjani-N.S.Ramachandran
nATyamADO naTarAja. rAgA: pUrvikalyaNi-Arasi
sadAshivamEva sadA. rAgA: Arabhi-Svarna Venkatesha Dikshitar
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Ponbhairavi
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#7 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by Ponbhairavi » 08 Sep 2018, 11:41

thanks MaheshS, Vijay.siddarth.
Thanks Lakshman . Could you pl indicate the language of the composition, to be sure though the beginning words appear suggestive.
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harimau
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#8 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by harimau » 08 Sep 2018, 14:55

Deena Karunakarane Nataraja Neelakantane. :D
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ajaysimha
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#9 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by ajaysimha » 09 Sep 2018, 00:50

Hi ,
There is one interesting yet small and rare composition by diksithar on nataraja perumal
Chidambara nataraja murthim in Raga tanukeerithi
It also has the Raga mudhra embedded beautifully
https://youtu.be/qxunOy0tdmQ
Here is the link for the same
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shankarank
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#10 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by shankarank » 09 Sep 2018, 01:54

harimau wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 14:55
Deena Karunakarane Nataraja Neelakantane. :D
அதுலே அனாகத எடுப்பாவது இருக்கே! அப்படியாவது கொஞ்சம் சங்கீதம் பொழைச்சு போச்சு !

At least it got some off beat stuff - some music escaped into it! A good tantalizing quarter :P
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shankarank
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#11 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by shankarank » 11 Sep 2018, 07:43

http://www.chembur.com/carnatic/page06.html
In his time and down to the time of Tyagaraja, music and dance were much related and this is reflected in his use of tala words in several of his compositions. We find this usage in Oothukkadu Venkatasubbier, half a century later. In fact this practice persisted down to Muthuswami Dikshitar. It was Tyagaraja who broke this practice and cut off the connections with dance, with his ill concealed aversion to dance as made clear by his stern refusal to refer to Siva even once as a dancer.
Well even if so, that SrI tyAgarAjA was averse to ISvara as the dancer. He was not so much averse to apsaras dancing:

https://youtu.be/7twnTx0xcis?t=1763

That is the siShya of tirupAmburam svAminata pillai ( tribute here: https://youtu.be/AKAgDfUuzYg?t=243) singing a caraNam almost never sung!

Search for dance here : http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html

How did SrI tyAgarAjA compose opera etc., if he was so much averse to dance?

Many of his not so somber kritis can be danced to, including at least 3 of the pancaratnas.

And Sruti publishes such stuff!
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vgovindan
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#12 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by vgovindan » 11 Sep 2018, 08:36

Of all the stutis of natTaraja, Siva tANDava - purportedly by rAvaNa - stands out as an exquisite piece.
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HarishankarK
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#13 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by HarishankarK » 13 Sep 2018, 17:02

Aadenamma harudu in paraju is on Dancing Siva isn't it?
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HarishankarK
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#14 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by HarishankarK » 13 Sep 2018, 17:03

Tyagaraja and Venkata kavi have composed on Narthana Ganapathi
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RSR
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#15 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by RSR » 14 Sep 2018, 10:55

Prof.PonBairavi has raised a very pertinent point. He ofcourse might beknowing all the famous songs on Nataraja in btamil.
I maybe pardoned for giving three gems in tamil.
1) 'kAlaith thookki nindradum deivame -yadhukulakambothi by Smt.MS
https://youtu.be/3Zt9WJYdi3k

2) Thookkiya thiruvadi thunai ena nambinen - bsankarabaranam, Smt.DKP
https://youtu.be/O2Trm7q-fdE

3) pitthan endraalum ..aaberi...n.c.vasanthakokilam
https://youtu.be/OrSqOGYtr2k
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MaheshS
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#16 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by MaheshS » 14 Sep 2018, 14:09

HarishankarK wrote:
13 Sep 2018, 17:03
Tyagaraja and Venkata kavi have composed on Narthana Ganapathi
What krithi[s] of Thyagaraja is on Nataraja? Thanks.
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Ponbhairavi
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#17 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by Ponbhairavi » 16 Sep 2018, 22:05

533

When I casually opened this thread under the spell of nadamAdi thirindha(kamboji ) of PapavinAsa mudaliar, I did not realise that I am opening a pandora ‘s box.This subject needs a profound study by competent tamil scholars , musicologists and archeologists and bharathanaatyam experts.ALL my observations below are only my random reflexions and impressions and not authoritative facts.
Subsequent to the era of thevara padalgal ,Chidambaram and Nataraja have been the subject of musical compositions of the tamil trinity ( Muthu thandavar (1560-1640) ,Arunachala kavi (1712-1779), Marimutha Pillai (1717-1787,), pApavinAsa mudaliar (first half of 18th century )
SRi Thyagaraja (1767-1847) , a main pillar of telegu compositions in carnatic music, did not apparently compose a single song on Nataraja. Though he was born ,lived and died in tamil nadu he has not composed a single song in tamil. As per the legend, when Gopalakrishna Bharathi (1811-1896 ) sang Sabapathikku veru deivam samAnamAguma in front ot Thyagaraja,the latter is said to have replied with a composition in telegu Rama ni SamAnamevaru.. MD has composed a couple of kirthanai on the lord of Chidambaram in SANSKRIT
It looks as though there are no compositions in telegu on Nataraja( subject to verification )
OOthukadu (1700 -1765) who lived prior to Thyagaraja and a prolific composer in tamil, had a predilection for dance jathis and sollukattu.and change of nadai,. But he also does not appear to have composed on the Dancing Lord Siva. For dance he was thinking only of krishna and in one of his compositions AdAthu asangAthu vA , he obliquely refers that Nataraja has given up his dancing and has come to Gokulam to watch Krishna’s dance.But actually, it was GovindarAja who has gone over to thillai and settled in a shrine close to Nataraja to watch his dance.
There are apparently no Nataraja in North india temples On the initiative of Kanchi Mahaswamigal, a UTTARA Nataraja mandhir, was built in Satara near Pune.
How about Andhra and karnataka?any Nataraja temple?

I remember to have read somewhere that the location of Chidambaram has some global significance in Earth( magnetic field ..? ).
I reproduce below a quotation by Shankarank dated 21/6 in another thread: Tamil: A biography- David Shulmann in members stuff and lounge.

‘’https://nasa2000.livejournal.com/5343.html.
The figure of Nataraja is amazing. It is like a whirl of movement.the same archetype of movement we can see in the images of our galaxy, milky way,which belongs toclass of spiral or S galaxies.Limbs and flying matted hair remind spiral arms of the galaxy, and the circle of fire outilines its round boundaries. The face arrest out attention as bright center of star constellation.
On Arudhra day of Dhanur masa , the earth, Sun, and moon are not just in alignment with each other,but they are also in alignment with the centre of the galaxy.

https;//www.nasa,gov/topics/earth/featu...nment.html,
And Dancing Shiva is not there in any other culture- even within india. “”

It appears that Nataraja is typically tamil god. All shiva temples in Tamil nadu have a shrine for Nataraja(always facing south ).another interesting observation:
In the Chidambaram temple the western,northern and eastern gopurams do not straightly l;ead to a major sannidhi. But the southern gopuram faces straight to Nataraja sannadhi. The temple architecture of Nataraja temple is also at variance from the other siva temples of south india.. The legend that the tamil poems of the saint quartet were hidden somewhere there and much has been eaten away by termites apparently holds some chidambara rahasyam ( not the few strands of vilva leaves hanging in front of a black wall.
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shankarank
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#18 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by shankarank » 17 Sep 2018, 01:56

Ponbhairavi wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 22:05
I remember to have read somewhere that the location of Chidambaram has some global significance in Earth( magnetic field ..? ).
https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2015/04 ... rse-study/

Yet to read it in detail.

But I have heard about this one before:

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2016/10 ... longitude/

And here is one where Dr Raghavan's work is cited:

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2015/09 ... n-1054-ad/

Referred article: http://www.narthaki.com/info/articles/art217.html

But the fact is astronomical observations are old, and the winter solstice time [Ahem!] has special significance for all old cultures.
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RSR
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#19 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by RSR » 17 Sep 2018, 21:11

Ponbhairavi wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 22:05
533

When I casually opened this thread under the spell of nadamAdi thirindha(kamboji ) of PapavinAsa mudaliar, I did not realise that I am opening a pandora ‘s box.This subject needs a profound study by competent tamil scholars , musicologists and archeologists and bharathanaatyam experts.ALL my observations below are only my random reflexions and impressions and not authoritative facts.
Subsequent to the era of thevara padalgal ,Chidambaram and Nataraja have been the subject of musical compositions of the tamil trinity ( Muthu thandavar (1560-1640) ,Arunachala kavi (1712-1779), Marimutha Pillai (1717-1787,), pApavinAsa mudaliar (first half of 18th century )
SRi Thyagaraja (1767-1847) , a main pillar of telegu compositions in carnatic music, did not apparently compose a single song on Nataraja. Though he was born ,lived and died in tamil nadu he has not composed a single song in tamil. As per the legend, when Gopalakrishna Bharathi (1811-1896 ) sang Sabapathikku veru deivam samAnamAguma in front ot Thyagaraja,the latter is said to have replied with a composition in telegu Rama ni SamAnamevaru.. MD has composed a couple of kirthanai on the lord of Chidambaram in SANSKRIT
It looks as though there are no compositions in telegu on Nataraja( subject to verification )
OOthukadu (1700 -1765) who lived prior to Thyagaraja and a prolific composer in tamil, had a predilection for dance jathis and sollukattu.and change of nadai,. But he also does not appear to have composed on the Dancing Lord Siva. For dance he was thinking only of krishna and in one of his compositions AdAthu asangAthu vA , he obliquely refers that Nataraja has given up his dancing and has come to Gokulam to watch Krishna’s dance.But actually, it was GovindarAja who has gone over to thillai and settled in a shrine close to Nataraja to watch his dance.
There are apparently no Nataraja in North india temples On the initiative of Kanchi Mahaswamigal, a UTTARA Nataraja mandhir, was built in Satara near Pune.
How about Andhra and karnataka?any Nataraja temple?

I remember to have read somewhere that the location of Chidambaram has some global significance in Earth( magnetic field ..? ).
I reproduce below a quotation by Shankarank dated 21/6 in another thread: Tamil: A biography- David Shulmann in members stuff and lounge.

‘’https://nasa2000.livejournal.com/5343.html.
The figure of Nataraja is amazing. It is like a whirl of movement.the same archetype of movement we can see in the images of our galaxy, milky way,which belongs toclass of spiral or S galaxies.Limbs and flying matted hair remind spiral arms of the galaxy, and the circle of fire outilines its round boundaries. The face arrest out attention as bright center of star constellation.
On Arudhra day of Dhanur masa , the earth, Sun, and moon are not just in alignment with each other,but they are also in alignment with the centre of the galaxy.

https;//www.nasa,gov/topics/earth/featu...nment.html,
And Dancing Shiva is not there in any other culture- even within india. “”

It appears that Nataraja is typically tamil god. All shiva temples in Tamil nadu have a shrine for Nataraja(always facing south ).another interesting observation:
In the Chidambaram temple the western,northern and eastern gopurams do not straightly l;ead to a major sannidhi. But the southern gopuram faces straight to Nataraja sannadhi. The temple architecture of Nataraja temple is also at variance from the other siva temples of south india.. The legend that the tamil poems of the saint quartet were hidden somewhere there and much has been eaten away by termites apparently holds some chidambara rahasyam ( not the few strands of vilva leaves hanging in front of a black wall.
Absolutely wonderful post Sir. I tend to agree with every line there. The last few lines about Nataraja always facing South is a new information worth probing.
Best Regards
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vgovindan
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#20 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by vgovindan » 18 Sep 2018, 05:53

IMO naTarAja temple is only a later addition to the main temple - tirumUla nAthar temple where Siva is worshipped in linga form. This is more so because, there is no nandi at the entrance of naTarAja temple and it is facing south. All these put together, I assume that naTarAja is actually 'dakshiNAmUrti'. And the ambalam is a later addition. The ancient 'tillai vana nathar' temple is stated to have been located on the sea shore, but was destroyed during Muslim invasion. The present temple is stated to have been built in the middle of the town later on.

I have read somewhere that in ancient times, vEdic brahmins would not enter the temple beyond nandi because they never believed in deity worship, but only in yajnas. This is also substantiated by the story of dAruka vana (tillai vana) incident where vEdic brahmins were performing magical rites and Siva appeared before them as bhikshATana (there is another dAruka vana in another part of India). In this place (tillai vana), kALi is stated to have been worhipped and Siva subdued kALi (tillaik kALi) by performing tANDava.

As far Tamil areas are concerned, it was the Sivacharyas - who were part and parcel of bANa community (musicians) who were responsible for the temple archana etc. It is curious that only in naTarAja temple, the brahmins (tillai vAzh andaNar - mUvAyiravar) are stated to have descended from heaven. Even today the Sivacharyas - gurukkal - and correspondong bhaTTar in vishNu temples - are not considered as brahmins.

(I am only expressing an impression I formed from reading various Tamil literature. Let people not jump to conclusions that I am suggesting something radical and start pouncing on me.)
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Pratyaksham Bala
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#21 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by Pratyaksham Bala » 18 Sep 2018, 07:54

Ponbhairavi wrote:
16 Sep 2018, 22:05
Sri Thyagaraja (1767-1847), a main pillar of Telegu compositions in Carnatic Music, did not apparently compose a single song on Nataraja. Though he was born, lived and died in Tamil Nadu he has not composed a single song in Tamil.
Strange indeed !
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harimau
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#22 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by harimau » 18 Sep 2018, 22:52

shankarank wrote:
17 Sep 2018, 01:56

Referred article: http://www.narthaki.com/info/articles/art217.html
The article says the Chola -- and Pallava -- bronzes depict Nataraja with his right leg extended. This is incorrect; Nataraja is depicted with his left leg raised and his right leg on the ground supporting his body. Any doubt about this is easily dispelled by the song Idathu Padam Thookki Aadum Natarajan Adi Panivame .

The exception is the Meenakshi Temple in Madurai where Nataraja is shown with his right leg raised. There is a legend associated with it. The Pandya king of Madurai, saddened that Siva would be tired from standing on his right leg, begged him to change his stance and Lord Nataraja obliged his devotee.
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rshankar
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#23 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by rshankar » 18 Sep 2018, 22:59

harimau wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 22:52
The exception is the Meenakshi Temple in Madurai where Nataraja is shown with his right leg raised. There is a legend associated with it. The Pandya king of Madurai, saddened that Siva would be tired from standing on his right leg, begged him to change his stance and Lord Nataraja obliged his devotee.
Hasn't Smt. Andavan Picchai composed a kRti on this? kAl mARi ADiya kanaka sabhEsA un mEl kAdal konDEn ayyanE - IIRC, in one of the caraNams, the sAhityam goes 'pAdam varundum enRu pANDiyan vENDiDa, vEdan mAlum kANA vimala malar pAdam nI dayavuDan Endi nartanam ADiDa....' referring to this episode.
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harimau
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#24 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by harimau » 18 Sep 2018, 23:10

rshankar wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 22:59
harimau wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 22:52
The exception is the Meenakshi Temple in Madurai where Nataraja is shown with his right leg raised. There is a legend associated with it. The Pandya king of Madurai, saddened that Siva would be tired from standing on his right leg, begged him to change his stance and Lord Nataraja obliged his devotee.
Hasn't Smt. Andavan Picchai composed a kRti on this? kAl mARi ADiya kanaka sabhEsA un mEl kAdal konDEn ayyanE - IIRC, in one of the caraNams, the sAhityam goes 'pAdam varundum enRu pANDiyan vENDiDa, vEdan mAlum kANA vimala malar pAdam nI dayavuDan Endi nartanam ADiDa....' referring to this episode.
I am not familiar with the song.

Kal Mari Adiya Kanaka Sabhesa, while alliterative, is incorrect, for the Meenakshi Temple houses the Rajata Sabha! :lol:

PS. I recognize that Nataraja is always referred to as Kanaka Sabhapathi/Sabhesan, the one exception being the name Rathna Sabhapathi that is not uncommon.
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Pratyaksham Bala
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#25 Re: Songs on Nataraja

Post by Pratyaksham Bala » 18 Sep 2018, 23:40

harimau wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 23:10
Kal Mari Adiya Kanaka Sabhesa, while alliterative, is incorrect, for the Meenakshi Temple houses the Rajata Sabha! :lol:
Great !
PS. I recognize that Nataraja is always referred to as Kanaka Sabhapathi/Sabhesan, the one exception being the name Rathna Sabhapathi that is not uncommon.
Kanakasabhapathi – Ananda Thandava Nataraja of Chidambaram.
Ratnasabhapathi – Kali Thandava Nataraja of Tiruvalangadu.
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