AbhEri - Old and New

Rāga related discussions
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SrinathK
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#1 AbhEri - Old and New

Post by SrinathK » 09 Jan 2019, 10:34

The old AbhEri that used Shuddha Dhaivatam (D1) is literally extinct now. Were it not for a couple of recordings still left of it, we'd not know.

Ever since D2 got introduced into nagumOmu, this rAga has become karnATaka dEvagAndhAri (which in turn is the same as it's hindustani equivalent bhimplAsi), with dhanashree being yet another polymorph of what is essentially the exact same scale.

As it turns out, there are two versions of the rAga, one of the Dikshitar school (veenAbhEri) -
S M1 G2 M1 P S / S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAKOF41vWlY

And the other version : S G2 M1 P N2 S / S N2 D1 P M1 G2 R2 S - which belongs to the Thyagarja school.
Only Vedavalli mami still sings nagumOmu with the old D1. This has been recorded by her in an album called "Pramanam" - it's available on Amazon Music (a free 30 day trial will give you unlimited listening) or you can get it here : https://www.kalakendra.com/music/carnat ... alli-sa491

That album also contains old versions of many other kritis and ragas.

M L Vasanthakumari also sang Papanasam Sivan's kandA vandaruL in the old scale (the original scale is very naTabhairavi -sh in it's flavour, maybe it was why naTabhairavi itself didn't develop much as a rAgA) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYFZng1kshg

MLV has even done a full AlApana for the old AbhEri.

As part of my latest brainwave (I hope I get time to at least implement some of them, many projects I started are in limbo due to lack of time), I am going to develop the raga threads next. The time is right that enough free music is now out there to share and we can hope that the links will remain for years down the road.
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ajaysimha
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#2 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by ajaysimha » 09 Jan 2019, 18:28

the thumb rule is abheri is with d1 and karnataka devagandhari is with d2 in both the schools.

but in the process of metamorphosis abheri of nagumo has become replaced with d2 for jana-ranjaka-prayogam in a few pathantarams and has continued to stay (need to identify from when the change happened ?)
(also the rasikas of today like the nagumo with d2 prayogam, as it gives the pleasant elevation in mood of listener)

you can also hear to the actual abheri here in Thyagarajars documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWPRNdNZK9o

just curious to know does both ragams (abheri and karnataka devagandhari) have same rasa/bhavam ?
is the bhavam of nagumo changed or still remains same ?

i also think the same has happened to
pre-trinity composer Oothukkadu venkatakavi's composition Nanda gopala - Abheri/Adi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkhsLDKbssU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C3CKLf0cK4

and also to Papanasam Sivan's kandA vandaruL
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RSR
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#3 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by RSR » 09 Jan 2019, 22:15

Can I get help from enthusiastic and learned members in this forum in building up this site?
https://sites.google.com/site/carnaticgems/home
It is enough if I get 100 ragams, well known.
and songs ( mp3) with links
googlesites allows collaborative efforts.
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SrinathK
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#4 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by SrinathK » 09 Jan 2019, 22:30

Give us time. With so much free music out there we will be doing a lot of link posting in coming days.
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SrinathK
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#5 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by SrinathK » 09 Jan 2019, 22:32

but in the process of metamorphosis abheri of nagumo has become replaced with d2 for jana-ranjaka-prayogam in a few pathantarams and has continued to stay (need to identify from when the change happened ?)
(also the rasikas of today like the nagumo with d2 prayogam, as it gives the pleasant elevation in mood of listener)

you can also hear to the actual abheri here in Thyagarajars documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWPRNdNZK9o

just curious to know does both ragams (abheri and karnataka devagandhari) have same rasa/bhavam ?
is the bhavam of nagumo changed or still remains same ?

i also think the same has happened to
pre-trinity composer Oothukkadu venkatakavi's composition Nanda gopala - Abheri/Adi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkhsLDKbssU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C3CKLf0cK4

and also to Papanasam Sivan's kandA vandaruL
It totally changed when the D1 was changed to D2. Did you know that sAramati might have used D2 at one point (this was why Brinda never sang mOkshamu because it was originally composed with D2 - can you imagine how that would sound?)

Regards OVK, all his compositions as sung today are in modern versions (the only known versions) of ragas and not how they existed pre trinity (which were according to the prevailing lakshana texts of those times). It's a long story, but it concerns a big question mark over how Thyagaraja's ragas are so different from all other schools of his time -- dark age tune fixing seems to have created a new system of ragas that completely overwrote the book, and these are the popular versions of the ragas we use today. Only Dikshitar's school to an extent has remained attached to the old ways - it's relative obscurity preserved more of it - even there many ragas changed even between his time and when the SSP was written. Otherwise, we have no idea how ragas or krithis sounded in those times anymore.

Now, even if they held on to the old versions, the level and sophistication of gamaka has now gone far beyond anything conceived back in those days - old treatises seem to treat ragas and gamakas like swara combinations with some oscillations sprinkled for taste, and this is even reflected in some old varnams or even the attempts to reproduce the SSP exactly as per the uber-text. Old folksy sounding gramaphone records would also support this. tODi for example would be unrecognizable to anyone 200 years ago.

It's clear that raga and tune fixing were rampant in those days. Only after the 1960s when recordings started preserving music did ragas finally stabilize for good and that's where they've been ever since. The music of OVK (and all composers before or since) is essentially modernized.

kandA vandaruL still survives with it's pathos mood intact even now. I recently heard a Lalgudi Jayaraman recording played with it's original tune.
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RSR
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#6 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by RSR » 10 Jan 2019, 21:59

Aberi, Beemplaas, Karanataka Devagandhari sound very similar.
Nagumomu by Musiri is said to be the modified version that has survived seven decades.
panchaashadpeeta roopini by DKP ,that of Karnataka Devagandhari
a nice song by NCVasanthakokilam
and ofcourse that of Madurai Mani Iyer.
https://sites.google.com/site/hindustha ... /beemplaas
------------------------------------
Is Rathipathipriya song jagath janani suka paani ...very different from beemplaas? Not in my opinion.
Dandapani Desikar had the best voice among all the male musicians. Sad, that he is not given due recognition.
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RSR
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#7 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by RSR » 10 Jan 2019, 22:17

From wiki on Musiri...
"In his career, the popularity of Musiri and his name reached every corner of India. His 78 rpm gramophone records were successful to the point that the audience would sometimes demand he sing songs in the exact way as heard on the record.
Beginning with the krithi Nagumomu, everything Musiri recorded were best sellers. Nagumomu was a song that, previous to Musiri, was only sung in the Abheri raga, as India's Trinity composer Tyagaraja is thought to have composed it in Abheri.
However, Musiri Subramania Iyer felt that the song sounded more emotional in the Karnataka Devagandhari raga, (a similar but subtly different raga) and he sang and recorded Nagumomu with Karnataka Devagandhari.
Carnatic music is an exacting music that places large importance on tradition. Therefore, Musiri Subramania Iyer's rendition of the song in a different raga than it was originally written caused outrage in many Carnatic musical purists. But Musiri stuck to his decision. Given that Musiri was a devotee of Tyagaraja, taking liberty with Tyagaraja's song was out of freedom of spontaneous expression and not out of irreverence.
As a point of fact, Nagumomu sounded so suited to Karnataka Devagandhari raga that everyone began to perform it in the "Musiri Subramania Iyer way", artists such as Bangalore Nagarathnamma, M. S. Subbulakshmi, and Bhanumathi Ramakrishna. "


--------------
we can listen and order the song from saregama page on musiri
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ajaysimha
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#8 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by ajaysimha » 11 Jan 2019, 17:48

RSR wrote:
10 Jan 2019, 22:17
From wiki on Musiri...

However, Musiri Subramania Iyer felt that the song sounded more emotional in the Karnataka Devagandhari raga, (a similar but subtly different raga) and he sang and recorded Nagumomu with Karnataka Devagandhari. "
yeah, even i have heard the same, when i was looking for authentic version of thyagarajars keerthanais
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SrinathK
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#9 Re: AbhEri - Old and New

Post by SrinathK » 12 Feb 2019, 09:37

SSP version of veeNabhEri - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XICA270RN4M

I've been checking these against the SSP itself. veeNabhEri and Dikshitar's Abheri as rendered today is pretty much as it is. And the chittaswaram for the kriti is also in the SSP.
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