The very first time I heard this raga...

[uday_shankar]

Semmangudi was probably well over 80 when he sang this. But I heard that recording twice over and didn't hear a D2 anywhere.

Not at all. I have an intimate knowledge of how Semmangudi sang at 80. This recording was in his prime, to be precise 1962-66. The violinist is most likely Tiruvalangadu Sundaresa Iyer in his last days (from the way he's playing) who left the world in 1966. That should give an idea of the time frame. The mridangist is probaby Vellore Ramabhadran.

I agree there's no D2 per se anywhere, although the "sound" or swara of D2 is there when N2 is articulated in a phrase in anupallavi "sētu bandhana sura pati etc" as S N2 R2 etc. That N2 certainly has the "sound" of D2.

Here it is at 3:38:

https://youtu.be/zLuQIAjWH74?t=217

Again in the charanam "sura taru sumamula", the highlighted phrase is articulated as the "sound" or swara of D2, athough the swara is of course N2.

Here it is at 7:13:
https://youtu.be/zLuQIAjWH74?t=429

If you just hear the sound of the recording, as from a distance you sometimes listen to nagasvaram wafting through the air, without actually following the melody, but hearing snatches of phrases and sounds, you could catch a D2 at these places.

[shankarank]

Part of the discussion happened there as well. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1381&p=348006#p348006

If it needs to be a better Manji - let it be!
If it needs to be a better Bhairavi - let it be!
If it needs to be an all new karaharapriya - let it be!
Lets work for it!
what it cannot be is some old and lost for ever naTabhairavi!
if you want a multi rAgA feeling - there is kaRnATaka kApi
Another 10 year challenge for carnatic musicians!

[Ranganayaki]

[

Semmangudi was probably well over 80 when he sang this. But I heard that recording twice over and didn't hear a D2 anywhere.

I don’t think he is that old in this recording. I am not able to shake off the feeling that I do hear a d2, but I could be mistaken.

So what we have is a Kharaharapriya canditate, that turned into naTabhairavi and is now sung in mAnji while everyone thinks the raga is bhairavi!! Confused enough?

This is not confusing, makes sense.

But I’m just going to take your word for it, the recording is too poor and my ears could be playing tricks on me.

[Ranganayaki]

I agree there's no D2 per se anywhere, although the "sound" or swara of D2 is there when N2 is articulated in a phrase in anupallavi "sētu bandhana sura pati etc" as S N2 R2 etc. That N2 certainly has the "sound" of D2.

Here it is at 3:38:

https://youtu.be/zLuQIAjWH74?t=217

I’m not sure I agree. I don’t quite hear a D there. On the other hand, I hear it as S N G R - but the recording is too cacaphonous.

Again in the charanam "sura taru sumamula", the highlighted phrase is articulated as the "sound" or swara of D2, athough the swara is of course N2.

Here it is at 7:13:
https://youtu.be/zLuQIAjWH74?t=429

Here too I disagree in my experience: Su-Ra-Ta-Ru at that spot sounds like N-D-N-S with a D1, very clear to me, and in the very next iteration it sounds like P-D-N-S with a D1 too. These two are quite clear to me.

More than anything I wonder why I didn’t notice these occurances in the first place.

All this said, i am still unable to tell that it’s a D1 in the spot I mentioned. But given all these other spots where it is clear (to me), you must be right. I don’t like the singing in this video, but may be it’s just the quality of the recording.

[shankarank]

May be something as explained here happened. He moved and the speakers (stereo effect) or something did the trick! The svara also moved! Violin accompanists beware - he knows how to play it!

https://youtu.be/PZauqBzlGzg?t=4567

[shankarank]

Of course music can be created in the tune called naTabhairavi of today:

https://www.parrikar.org/music/sivan/sr ... ivalli.mp3

( By the way the links in rAgas forum for naTAbhairavi - the sawf link is obsolete : https://www.parrikar.org/carnatic/sivan/) - I will link this post there!

How do I measure the music in it? I haven't heard or in the habit of hearing Sri S. Rajam that much even in recording. You could say , "the very first time in my life" , I am hearing him . sangItam - how much a kilO? type approach!!

From third sangati on in pallavi - atIta takes over. Second line SrI subrahmaNyA namOstutE is taken off beat. kriyAlingana dOSham cured. This doesn't sound like being done to catch a breath. dEvata sArvabouma - the dhIRgas of both words exploited to the hilt. Jaya Jaya (hrasva) is pushed to the end to become an adjective to the next line : dviSHaDbhuja kArtikEya. The violinist did not get it right the second time. And dhIrgAs there are utilized to the hilt - and in the second sangati "kARti" goes over the arudi (saSabdakriyA) and he descends with "kEyA" and "mEYA" to samam!

I seriously, truly, promise to God, did not know or realize that it is his ( SrI S Rajam's) centenary coming up on Feb 10th, 2019. He was born in Madurai it seems! From Sanjay's and rookie MA Sec. twitter line got to know there is a concert scheduled in memory of his in NGS!!

What a timing? Centenaries are good to catch up with musicians whom we might have missed all life!!

[Pratyaksham Bala]

Does anyone have the actual Sanskrit spellings of ragas? Not sure if there are any ragas out there with non-Sanskrit names.

Hope you have checked this:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... nagari.png

[shankarank]

Except that none of them are real rAgAs

[ganesh_mourthy]

May be something as explained here happened. He moved and the speakers (stereo effect) or something did the trick! The svara also moved! Violin accompanists beware - he knows how to play it!

https://youtu.be/PZauqBzlGzg?t=4567

Ah I did not know my Guru could be so eloquent interlaced with humour. He does impart us with regular titbits in a jovial way during the learning session. Thoroughly enjoyed. Thank you shankarank and thank you youtube . It is a repository of surprises.

GM .