Two Bharata Ratnas : Lata and MSS

[ganesh_mourthy]

To pit a carnatic raaga against a Hindustani raaga I should not have taken a movie song. But since this thread deals with a lot of HIndi film songs supposedly in a raaga , I took a raaga based film music of south for comparison. We used to be a bit sloppy in matters of voice culture and precision ( classical carnatic ) and that does not mean that the CM raagas sound less appealing. We even went more daring to experiment with vivaadi raagams while they did not. Coming to speak of precision and clarity , even the Hindustani musicians are not perfect at faster speads. The more the meend and (murkiyaan and katkas) .. the more off-note they go at higher speed. Their audiences are forgiving too even without realizing their generosity. There is no such pitch-perfect singer in the whole world ever FOR A WHOLE SONG. IT IS HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE. Not even Whitney Houston or Mariah carrey.

However when it comes film music, it is a different voice culture and voice engineering. There are no other technical aspects like tanams , pallavi , neravals or such other things. Filmy People of north and south sing in a pleasing pitch , with all the emotions needed for a film music.

But in the case of Film music of HIndi, it was popular than other regions because it had wider reach. Hence the stars became more popular than the south. The female actress were more popular than our south indian counterparts. They were more charming and epitome of beauty in the national scene. Hindi fimly singers were the nightingales and the sweetest voices and the south indian voices are second rung. Singers of south , with better voices and broader song range and talents will have to carry a faded glory of "lata and rafi of south "".

The point is , they are sensations. I do not think anyone of our singers or actors are going to be as popular unless they make it to the Hindi cinema.

The fame and the excellence tag is reserved for Hindi music. And with that comes stardom. Being a fan of Lata ( of course other singers equally) , I was curious to read articles about her and follow some of her songs. bUT The google news was feeding more of her culinary skills and her love for "mutton kothimbir"" and coriander fish curry. A few of her close circle of friends were all gaga about how she would like to prepare them herself and would try all combinations. But, wait .. these feeds were gaining more clicks and there were quickly recipes of Latas non-veg dishes and recipes all over. She was a silent star.

I am only trying to prove that The hindi songs and singers were of star quality ( not superior quality- it is a matter of one's personal taste) , their singers and actors were part of the package . In the process of admiration of HIndi songs and Latas let us not write off and brush aside other great singers and music composers. It is peppered all over often in this thread. Let us also focus on the many unsung heros and heroines.

GM

[RSR]

p-96
@arasi
Madam. As you said, identification of the raagas of all the 18 songs rendered by Smt.MS in Meera 1945 film , is not too easy. What is the ragam of (1) Kaatrinile varum geeham (2)Leelaikal seyvaane (3) Engum Nirantaaye (4) Charaacharam (5) Janaardhanaa -climax scene
.(6) vaeynkuzhalin Naadham .
-
Even Kalki has not ventured into that while he mentions the raagas of Maraintha kooNdil as Kamaaj, enathu uLLame as Chenchurutti, the three ragas of 'udal uruga' ragamalika.
.
He left out Giridhara Gopaaa (Mohanam) and anthaNaalum (Sindubairavi) , aranga in makimaiyai ( behag) as too well known to be mentioned. Even after, nearly 75 years, it is a challenge . but we can conjecture...
.
The raagas in Hindi Meera are even more challenging.
.
When you can spare some time, please have a look at
https://meera1947.blogspot.com (for Hindi version) and the opening post on Meera 1945 at

https://meera1945.blogspot.com/2020/08/ ... songs.html
---
It is in simple Thamizh and you will resonate with the spirit.
I have attempted to give raagaas of all the MS songs in that film.
.1) முரளி மோஹனா .......(காபி ராகம்)
2) காற்றினிலே வரும் கீதம் -( மிஸ்ர ஜோன்புரி )
3) எனது உள்ளமே - (செஞ்சுருட்டி)
4) கிரிதர் கோபாலா - (மோஹனம்)
5) யது நந்தனா - (திலங்)
6) லீலைகள் செய்வானே
7) வேய்ங்குழலின் நாதம் - (பததீப்)
8) சராசரம்( தொடக்கம் ஹம்சானந்தி)
9) மறவேனே எந்நாளிலுமே -(பரஜ்)
10) அரங்கா உன் மகிமையை ( பெஹாக்)
11) மறைந்த கூண்டில் இருந்து விடுதலை ( கமாஜ் )
12) உடல் உருக உள்ளம் உருக
( பூர்வி கல்யாணி , சஹானா , நாதநாமக்ரியா )
13) அந்த நாளும் வந்திடாதோ ( சிந்து பைரவி)
14) எங்கும் நிறைந்தாயே ( ஹிந்துஸ்தானி பைரவி)
15) ஜனார்த்தனா (ஸ்ரீராகம் )
--

Even in Meera 1945 Thamizh, all the tunes are based on raagas common to CM and HM ..ALL of them based on this or that of the TEN HM THAATS. I say this after years of dwelling in those great tunes of the film and consider it as the chief reason for its emotional appeal and sweetness.
-----
Kamaaj , Harikambodhi, Chenchurutti were favourite raagas of Smt.MS
There have been very scholarly discussions in this forum with specific reference to Kamaaj and Harikambodhi...not mentioning about Thyagaraja Swami's contribution in creating about ten great kruthis in Harikambodhi but just two kruthis in Kamaaj - sujana jeevana in slow pace (DKP) and Seethapathe (normal pace)...none too good ..and MD's classic in Kamaaj 'saarasa dhaLa Nayanaa' while there is no kruthi by MD and SS in Harikambodhi. and ofcourse, 'the vintage classic of Mysore Vaasudevachar ...'Brocheva ' as a 78 rpm lovely in 1946.
Sri.VK has mentioned both these ..'vaNddadum colai' in Harikambodhi and vaasudevachar kruthi. in kamaaj.

https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... a-evaruraa

[RSR]

p-101
-----
Ganesh.
@ganesh_mourthy ..
We are talking about the voice,and tunes only and not about the visuals. though some visuals of the two stars , the topic of this special thread , are indeed full of grace and homely beauty . Visuals while discussing music are most often irrelevant, distracting and even disconcerting .That is why I am trying my best to give music clips from films without the actual scenes there.. ( NewDelhi is unique ).
and Godan equally special , ..it is not any romantic scene and has been filmed with finesse. The song is in background only.

[ganesh_mourthy]

RSR

I am not talking visuals and visuals does not have an impact on my musical taste. I just stated that for a comparison of north-south singers, north-south actors and to show where all popularity tilts to.

I am sure the songs give you an euphoric nostalgia and it is normal. But my appreciation is not narrowed down to that period of Hindi films and Lata's songs alone. Yes, I appreciate all your MS songs and your list is an endless treasure. They are unique with the style and timbre and pitch and carry in her voice (she as an exception who did not compromise on her voice and pitch as a Carnatic singer) with which she sang those numerous songs - no one has done it in a style so remarkable and such flair. She is par excellence in that style and rendering, especially for the range of her presentation.

However, as far as the Lata songs and Hindi , they are different. There were singers with better voices, better rendering, and more emotive in their voices with a wider range who sang more soulful compositions. As far as me ( even to talk from a musical perspective) , Old hindi film music is another period and another region with its own distinctive style, but definitely not par excellence. To merit with a highest civilian award ...never mind.. .. I dont mind when there are 3 from a single unit and hope not the fourth also gets one.

I will sure continue to relish all your MS . Thank you for your effort.

[RSR]

Indian films have to go a long, long way, to reach the best of Hollywood films, totally without any music . 'andha NaaL' has been the only exception in nearly 100 years of Indian cenema. The director was VeeNa S.Balachandar. and perhaps some Sathyajit Ray films like
Pather Panchali. where the very theme percludes any singing.
.
I dont think, anybody 'sings' in real-life situations. Amiya Chakrabarthy's 'Dekh kabira roya' with its wonderful songs by Lata, MannaDey and Talat , was actually a parody on singinging in real life situations. Brilliant.
.
Why all this preamble in this thread ? it has to do with the Godhaan song.... We will now see two lovely, lovely songs by Lata in Hrishikesh Mukerjee's classic, 'Anuradha'.. The heroine was a famous vocalist according to the story line and the actual video-clip adds to the greatness of the singing.. with absolutely brilliant acting by Nazir Hussein, Balraj Sahni and ofcourse, Leela Naidu. ( I saw that film as a morning show in outskirts of Chennai , sometime in 1963. My neighbour in next seat had come just to listen to 'sawnre sawnre' in title music and left immediately after that !). He missed two delectable songs and scenes.
The first song is 'Kaise din bithe' , said to be maanj -kamaaj. and the second song ' hoy re woh dhin kyon na aaye in Kallavathy raagam.
Music was by Pt.RaviShankar..
------------
kaise din bithe
https://youtu.be/yPMF_vNlnVw
--------------------------------
hoy re woh din kyon na aaye
https://youtu.be/v57QxIkF3nI

-------------
https://sites.google.com/site/decadesba ... r-anuradha

[arasi]

RSR,
Thank you for bringing these songs: all Sailendra's lyrics? Pandit Ravisankar's tunes, his playing too a bit. A one of a kind film. Yet, just as they sounded in those times, among them I still find 'kaisE din bItE ab' to be riveting. There, Lata sounds like Lata. Not as if Panditji is the music maker. Was she conscious of it while singing the other songs? I have no idea.

ganesh_m,
Yes, seeing rAgA names on these videos as you look at the screen does not help. They distract you. The melody comes to us first in a film song which has a heightened emotional appeal. All right, once I see the rAgA appear on the screen with the video, I can't avoid thinking about it. Why does it name a rAgA which I don't hear in the song? Why do I hear something different at times? In this particular song, more of yamunA kalyANi?-which perhaps makes one think, film songs are film songs, even if a classical artiste tunes them. Lata is Lata when she lends her voice in a film, even though she is a classical singer by training.

May be, in that make-believe world, music too gains that 'you can't really capture it' kind of elusiveness? Perfectly fits a shadow play of life rather than in a real, solid classical music performance? That's why musical biographies on screen have that extra dimension of some distant quality compared to a stage play of the same? I wasn't there yet to see S.G. Kittappa on stage and I wonder--did the audience get more of the musical experience there than say, they did by watching MKT on the screen, with the shadow play adding a mysterious, ethereal element to the experience?
Arunachala kavi's Rama nATAkam for instance--how different the stage performance would have been? Had Sivakavi started off as a drama production, would it have been very different?

With Shakespeare's plays, you certainly saw the difference! The few I was lucky enough to see were totally different (no music there of course, but I mention it here for the emotional impact). Yet, when a play is filmed with drama foremost in mind, the cinematic element in check--example: BBC's King Lear, Olivier shines like a gem unlike being a Hamlet on the screen, it's different. I am digressing, but Hindi movie songs GAINED by having that elusive quality because those romantic and heart-wrenching songs assumed that extra mysteriousness on the screen, and Lata's voice sounded better than any other on it--a perfect match--just as yes, so many sweet voices were there in CM, but MSS's stood out and continued to capture our hearts. Two inimitable, long-lasting gems they certainly were in their own territories...

[ganesh_mourthy]

Arasi ,

That last post of yours is a bit esoteric. . But I get a fair gist of what you would like to convey. Yes , indeed Lata was the best among the HINDI LOT. Inimitable is a slippery term. Needless to say, Asha is inimitable too.

GM

[RSR]

This rarest MS URDU Song by Miirza Ghalib which could rival any gazal by Talat...
@thenpaanan May be an unheard MS to many...in theme too!

https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... urdu-by-ms


Thanks to Bala Girish
-----------------------

[ganesh_mourthy]

So thank you RSR.

[thenpaanan]

We will now see two lovely, lovely songs by Lata in Hrishikesh Mukerjee's classic, 'Anuradha'.. The heroine was a famous vocalist according to the story line and the actual video-clip adds to the greatness of the singing.. with absolutely brilliant acting by Nazir Hussein, Balraj Sahni and ofcourse, Leela Naidu. ( I saw that film as a morning show in outskirts of Chennai , sometime in 1963. My neighbour in next seat had come just to listen to 'sawnre sawnre' in title music and left immediately after that !). He missed two delectable songs and scenes.
The first song is 'Kaise din bithe' , said to be maanj -kamaaj. and the second song ' hoy re woh dhin kyon na aaye in Kallavathy raagam.
Music was by Pt.RaviShankar..

Ah, lovely memories of "Anuradha". I first watched this movie on Doordarshan in the 70s and was instantly struck by its rather different musical score. In those days I knew nothing about HM or Ravi Shankar (in those days I thought he was yet another music director!). The singing is out of this world and of all the songs here my favorite is "haaye woh din" that you reference here. I have watched this movie umpteen times and yet the music gets me every single time. Not just the singing but also the trademark sitar background pieces for some of the scenes -- somehow Ravi Shankar's sitar seems to have a different sound -- very much like the background music in Satyajit Ray's "Pather Panchali" when the boy Apu opens his eyes and an absolutely exhilarating sitar sequence breaks out in the background.

My daughters are always perplexed by my repeated references to "haaye woh din" as the best example of effortless singing ever. I keep telling them to note the absolute lack of stress (or appearance of it) in the singing at any moment, the smooth uniform treatment of all the notes, the subtle inflexions in the phrase "jaa jaake ritu", and the totally seamless register changes as Lata Mangeshkar traverses the octaves in this song. Plus the way the melodic line merges with the 7-beat (deepchandi?) madhyalay gait is absolutely icing on the cake. The way LM sings 'kahaan gaye woh taare" with no sign of any effort, and then the phrase "mana baati jale" <pause> "muskaaye". That pause is simply out the world and so is the modulation on "muskaaye". Classical singers would do well to learn this. We CMians lay great store about out lyrics but miss these basic things when singing them.

This song to me is even superior to the companion "saanware" where you can hear some shrillness when the song goes up into the stratosphere. "kaise din beethe" is similarly superlative but the treatment of the line "jiya jaane naa" is not as well-supported as the rest of the verse. Of course anyone would kill to be able to sing ANY of these songs like this, but when you are at this level of ability that no one else can touch, you can only compare songs sung by the same singer-composer pair (sort of like how Pavarotti's singing of some arias can only compared with his own singing of those arias at different times).

Thanks for the lovely reminder!

-T

Addendum: My 11-year old, watching over my shoulder as I play the clip and type this up, floors me with her earnestness "But, Dad, I don't know how to do all this in my singing". I nod and reply "Neither do I".

[thenpaanan]

This rarest MS URDU Song by Miirza Ghalib which could rival any gazal by Talat...
@thenpaanan May be an unheard MS to many...in theme too!

https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... urdu-by-ms


Thanks to Bala Girish
-----------------------

Thanks again for these lovely reminders! When the highest quality lyrics meet the highest quality singing, the effect is simply beyond words. So I will keep quiet.

One thing I can say here that I have not noticed before is MSS's impeccable pronunciation. Even in this day of instant knowledge we struggle with proper pronunciation of Urdu, and here is MSS giving us a master lesson on how to properly pronounce these lyrics in song, and seemingly laughing at even the idea of a "South Indian accent".

-T

[thenpaanan]

--------------------------------
hoy re woh din kyon na aaye
https://youtu.be/v57QxIkF3nI

I had forgotten that this immortal line in the dialog happens before this particular song. "Kya din the woh, jab mohobbat se mohobbat thi" (What days were those (of youth), when we were in love with love itself).

I guess you can tell that I am reveling in the ecstasy of the movie. Cannot thank you enough.

-T

[RSR]

ref-110, 111, 112
@thenpaanan Wonderful post.

My daughters are always perplexed by my repeated references to "haaye woh din" as the best example of effortless singing ever. I keep telling them to note the absolute lack of stress (or appearance of it) in the singing at any moment, the smooth uniform treatment of all the notes, the subtle inflexions in the phrase "jaa jaake ritu", and the totally seamless register changes as Lata Mangeshkar

Addendum: My 11-year old, watching over my shoulder as I play the clip and type this up, floors me with her earnestness "But, Dad, I don't know how to do all this in my singing". I nod and reply "Neither do I".

-
Blessed children and doubly blessed father to have such children.
I am reminded of RaNu in the film. (In real life, she was daughter of Hemantha kumar Mukerjee). How wonderful some children are!.
Do you remember RaaNu's "('Name so big.. Hand also so big1',
Haan. I will take care of your father.. You take care of mine').
--
'Kabulliwalh' Bengalli film Short story by Tagore, Diected by Tapan Sinha, lead actor Chabby Biswas and the cute, cute girl who acted as Mini. She is just a three year old girl in the film and does a 'dance; in her school function, for a song in Rabindra Sangeet. Every one in the film acts perfectly. But that would be a digression.
---
I agree with @arasi madam, ...
For all the great reputation of RaviShankar as a great Sitarist, his music direction in the film was not good. 'jaane kaise sapnon se ' is not upto the mark, either in music score or filming.
.
If 'jama albela' is fairly good, we have to close our eyes and listen , one of the worst directed scenes, and Leela was never a dancer.
,
The background score in 'kaise din bithe' was intruding and of low quality. but Lata sings the second line of the stanza, in her own enchanting manner. ,'sarsaree naina...'
.Neha Laga Ke
Mai Pachhatayi
Neha Laga Ke
Mai Pachhatayi
Sari Sari Raina
Nindiya Naa Aayi

As for Sawnre , it is just a routine classical tune , memorable more for her rendering and 'bruga'. The Sitarist composer should have added two more stanzas without repetition ,with such a gloriously endowed voice of Lata. CR would have done that.
. How many heavenly songs Lata could have left to us, if only she had the best music directors even better than CR, SJ, Sallill, Naushad and Burman!
.
The songs live for ever, more due to Lata than due to RaviShankar' s music 'direction'.. I read somewhere that the Sitarist
composer made Lata render the title-music song three or four times before approving and Lata was vexed. , rightly so.
.
@arasi Madam is perfectly right .in saying that in these songs, Lata sang her own version than as 'directed' by the Sitarist.
. .Thenpaanan

Thank you for the great input. and for sharing my infatuation with
the remarkable film for the portrayal of true emotional bond and total absence of any bad characters anywhere.

I had forgotten that this immortal line in the dialog happens before this particular song. "Kya din the woh, jab mohobbat se mohobbat thi" (What days were those (of youth), when we were in love with love itself).

"I guess you can tell that I am reveling in the ecstasy of the movie"

I am unashamedly and proudly with you.

[ganesh_mourthy]

As far as RSR, he is trying to keep his conservatism intact.

Somehow, we think differently of cinema music. I am against obscenity but not against romantics in cinema. Cinema is all for wild imagination and to let people walk in the dreamland. How I wish the time period matched IR and Lata. That would have produced the best magic than ever of Latas. In this song .. the voice is matured ( no problem at all ) .. language imperfection ( that is double OK .. ChOOOO sweet ). But this song proves how unfortunate it is to not have two people in the same time period. A song that echoed a million times across TN . The lata magic.
And the raaga.. ahem scale .. well, it is easy .

https://youtu.be/N15ET23CpLQ

[RSR]

Here comes a non-film Meera Bajan --(the Thamizh version ,did appear in the film - music by S.V.Venkataraman.. the song following 'charaacharam- lyrics- rather clumsy- not by Kalki but by PSivan)
but the Hindi version is synonymous with perfection.
What is the raagam ? For sure, based on a slight variant of CM MaayaMaaavaGowLA ( HM-Bairav) .

Pyaare dharsana ,by Smt.MS - 1947 plate.
,,,The divine 'tum bina rahyona jaay'..first and second time.
.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... e-dharsana
. Notably, she did not sing this in any of her concerts. I tend to think that her best was in her records.
[/color]===============================================
Here is Lata - tuned by Shankar-Jaikishan- same scale as the above
but some janya slightlly different.
Kathputli. -1956--- Vyjayanthi starrer again with Balraj in lead role. No..not a love story at all , No duets.
-
A 'lory'
.
https://sites.google.com/site/decadesba ... -kathputli
--
An mp4 would do better justice to Lata, SJ and the tune. but allow for delay in loading.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1glDh2C ... sp=sharing
---
@Ranganayaki Madam, May I have some suggestions about the exact raagam of the abve two songs ( MS and Lata) ?

[RSR]

Lyrics-meaning-of Chali Aaj gori ' song from Go-dhaan
-
translation by my brother.
-
The bride leaves for her beloved husband's city today
With sindhoor(vermilion) on her forehead and the shawl over head and shoulders
Tears falling from the eyes appeared like blooming flowers
and the little girl who always hides behind her mother’s anchal(saree ) with fear is today leaving to her strange new home
-
Eyes swell with tears and breath sounds like a storm
The girl is leaving for her union with her gentle, new life partner
And tears roll down her cheeks as rain drops fall from tiny cloud
===========================================

[RSR]

about p-114 by Ganesh
@ganesh_mourthy
---------------------
Thank you for posting the video withoout the actual scene.
And , once again, the raaga is sindhubairavi ! proves my contention.
We have seen more dignified portrayal of romance -very subtle and moving- even in tamil films - like Devdas, Enga veettu mahalakshmi based on Sarath's' Nishkruthi; Missiamma, amaradheepam, ethirparaathathu, Kaanal Neer - a Sarath Chhandra classic- 'Badi Didi', Navaraathri, ...
-.
..Even very early films in 1935 used to be bad stuff. but the 1947-1957 decade gave us many romantic gems --each of slightly different type -of Dilip, Dev and Rajkapoor..
..And wonderful duets by Lata many of which have been marred by the visuals. ..stereotyped and artificial.
This is not 'conservatism' but just a matter of propriety. I learn that even very leading Hindi film stars like ShawRuk insist on clean script and shoots.
Good Art and wholesome entertainment is not meant just to portray 'reality' but to uplift.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Thank you RSR ,

It is indeed sindhubhairavi . I think it is a easy fit for movie because of almost all the notes. Respectfully, I think we have a generation gap in appreciation and may not see eye to eye which is OK. I find the present style of music to be outrageous and I cannot expect you to view things any differently. I recall you said you were born in early 40's . And your respository is a treasure trove full of surprises . I have not heard many because of poor sound quality . But I am listen to them because of you . Thank you .

[arasi]

RSR
Thanks for your endless zeal and diligence in bringing my old world of listening within my reach now.

G_M,
You make me focus my gaze into that hazy world a bit more.

Thenpanan,
Your young children listen to some of this music too!

Well, how much impressed are you all with the hamsadhwani Lata with Manna Dey has sung in Parivar?
jA, tujhsE nahIn bOlUn kanhaiyA? Again, no doubt, lyrics boost the quality of a song. Salil Chowdhry, Shailendra.

Another, same sort of 'kanhaiyA' song??
jhan jhan jhan jhan pAyal bAjE, kaisE jAvUn. Film Buzdil, An early S.D. Burman.

Then, all those jhanak jhanak pAyal bAjE songs: saiyAn jAo jAo, mujh sE na bOlO (dEsh), and the title song in durbAri kAnaDa,
nain sE nain nAhi milAo, jO tum tODO piyA(sindhu bhairavi)..the list goes on...Vasanth Desai. Though classical sounding, keep their cimematic charm intact. .

RSR,
Enjoying the whole slew of Meera songs you have brought us...

[ganesh_mourthy]

RSR is going to be bringing all those old memories back , driving you all into a post independance era.

But listen to these too...

https://youtu.be/F10aeM9V1Ho

G_M

[arasi]

Quite a song! Refreshing, I'd say, and Lata sounds as if she is rejuvenated with this new (to me) young music maker's tune. Gulzar's lines start with a get-up-and go mood--though the situation is well-worn. Could be Anarkali for all I know. See, I parted ways with the dhuns of the day, wandered away, and how! Thanks...

[ganesh_mourthy]

This is another beautiful song by Salil Chaudary sung by Lata and Manna Dey. The tune is so hummable.

https://youtu.be/eoeB2vCEbWU

Salil was popular in Hindi, Bengali as well as Malayalam and he gave some of the best tunes in Malayalam.

The duet becomes a lullaby (malar kodi pole ... mayangu nee en madi mele ( i learnt Malayalam in 7 days ) ) here with another singer who sang 90 percent of the Salil Choudary songs. This is a very popular Malayalam song and I only stumped on the Hindi of Lata Manna later. Both Hindi and Malayalam is poorly picturized.

Intriguing to me is why did he choose a higher pitch in Malayalam for a lullaby. What prompts music directors to choose a particular pitch?

https://youtu.be/5Y81ltayukA

G_M

[ganesh_mourthy]

deleted

[RSR]

Some specials for @arasi madam.
-----------------------------------------------
I saw Janak Janak (1955) and Jagthe Raho (1956) , only around 1960. at Chennai , though I had heard the songs in radio earlier. Both the films were outstanding creations. Janak Janak was a masterpiece to showcase the classical art tradition of India,, Music director was Vasanth Desai. and there were many HM classical tunes. Once again, the most moving song was by Lata in HM Bairavi..a Meera Bajan. The visual was great. Sandhya-a dancer and wife of famous
director. Shantaram
jo thum chodo piya
janak janak payal baaje -1955-vasanth desai-bairavi tune
meera bajan
https://youtu.be/WbTxFVxDhL4
============================
The song from Jagthe Raho follows next...trying to get lyriics and meaning.

[arasi]

RSR,
Yes, jO tum tODO piyA was an obvious one I omitted mentioning. Reason? Used to be a staple for too long in my lowly state as a casual singer to the point I was tired of singing it Sorry for that. To this day, jAgo re jAgo rE jAgO is an energizer. Quite modern in those days. We also knew that Nargis was saying goodbye to Rajkapoor as his leading lady with that beautiful dawn scene when she is seen watering the flower garden. She was a naDigai tilakam, for sure.

G_M,
Yes, a lovely song having an eerie quality (in an agreeably haunting way). It reminds me of AyegA AnEwAlA in Mahal). Yes, this scene is shot as if by an amateur. It improves as the song progresses! The much older oldie had non-pareille Madhbala beautifully captured by the lens.

Now, the lullaby (photography, as you say is poor), since I am not that fine-tuned to tell the difference--must be by Lata. The credit says otherwise. A good one. As for your wondering about the pitch for the lullaby, I thought of CR's dhIrE se AjAri akhiyan mE nindiyA. Starts at a low pitch, but as in an anupallavi, goes up. So too, the old 'kaNNE, kaNmaNiyE, kaNNURAngAyO?' from Parasakthi which brought Sivaji to the silver screen with a jaya bhErikai. SaraNams are in higher pitch. Could be, not to put the moviegoers to sleep! ??

[ganesh_mourthy]

Hello Arasi

The malayalam lullaby is sung by SJ and not Lata. The song is one tone higher throughout. If the Hindi is C , the malayalam is D . It is shift of pitch .

G_M

[RSR]

'arasi'
Madam
'jago mohana pyare jago' (Jaagthe raho'- 1956)was a nice tune indeed. ..said to be in HM 'bairav' scale.. -some janya of maayaamaaLava gowLa. The music was by Salil Chowdry...This was the only song by Lata in that film. and in my opinion, the only good song by anybody in the film. I liked the tune without the intruding chorus. It was jarring. and ...the visuals!..It was quite unnecessary.
https://youtu.be/BP_nPLavgAs
For such a serious and award-winning social-satire, it was an anti-climax, visually. .
The director could have very easily shot the scene with the angelic DaisyIrani baby giving water to the villager and playing the song in background... Sorry to differ from your view.

[ganesh_mourthy]

Hello Arasi , ( this helloing comes right after RSR's respectful addressing ) .. Don't mind we are all friends. RSR too .

The answer came instantaneously for the pitch from a trusty person. . The slightly lower pitch was to match Manna dey.

OK .. here is a different melancholy. Sorry RSR. You are not going to like it. But this is another facet of Lata's versatility.

https://youtu.be/iurWdg4vC8E

G_M

[RSR]

Ganesh
Have you heard /seen 'Lagan tose lagi balma' -Lata- Dekh Kabira Roya-1957- Amiya Chakrabarthy- MadanMohan-RajinderKishen-
ANITA GUHA's frolicking fast-paced delight? Versatility!
I have never heard a better song in that genre so far. -still based on classical raaga . https://youtu.be/Thfqd907CqA

[ganesh_mourthy]

RSR
Thank you. I have never heard these songs. You are taking to me to another realm .She must be young to sing in such a teenage like voice.

And the gusto filled song dance vyjayathi the greatest beauty with Gopi krishna . Even the prelude where she talks is sweet to listen to .

https://youtu.be/vYVCgh_YN68

Arasi , are you keeping up ? Or do you want RSR and me to pull over the car a bit and wait to check that you are close behind us
?

G_M

[arasi]

G_M,
Thanks for your asking. Please go ahead, the two of you and others.
l am sorry. I need to take some time off at present. Will join a bit later...

[arasi]

Deleted. Repeat post.

[RSR]

https://sites.google.com/site/decadesba ... -ja-raath-
Film- dil-ek-mandir-1963- MeenaKumari starrer- Shankar-Jaikishan-
Hindi version of Sridhar's Tamil film 'Nejil oar Aalayam','
Audio only.
No visual. A remarkable tune.
SJ seemed to be in HM Keerwani mood in that film. ..had Rafi's 'Yaadh na jaaye' classic but this is a thread exclusively for Lata and MSS.. No duets , even of Lata.
Lata was 33 then- the threshold , for any lady vocalist, before the voice loses its youthful timbre.

[RSR]

Sarojini Naidu's speech on Smt.MS- 1947- Meera premiere at Delhi
-----
Here are Sarojini Devi’s living words while introducing Subbulakshmi in the film Meera
Can be seen and heard at
https://meera1947.blogspot.com
--------------------------------
“I commend Subbulakshmi of the South to the people of the North. She is presenting the Hindi version of her Tamil film Meera.
Meera rightly belongs to the North though she belongs indeed to the whole world.

“Every child in India has heard about Subbulakshmi for the beauty of her voice, the magic of her personality, the gracious charity
of her heart; but in the North she is still to be known, to be loved, to be honoured, to be cherished as one of the greatest artistes in India.

“I am speaking not in Hindi but in English of set purpose, because I want my words of commendation to reach the whole world and
not merely Northern India.
“I want my living words to go to the uttermost corners of the world so that people may realize how one great woman artiste in India has been able to move the hearts of millions and millions of
men and women by her songs. I expect, I believe the feeling roused in me will be roused in every one who hears the enchanting voice of this enchanting singer who is abundantly gifted. It may not be
known to many that that golden voice is an instrument of great causes.
“I had the privilege of seeing the Hindi version of her film Meera. It was pure enchantment against the back- ground of Rajput grandeur and Rajput chivalry. It was a true representation of Meera, nay it was Meera herself singing songs of devotion, of prayerful appeal. “The story of Meera is the story of India, the story of Indian Faith and devotion and ecstasy. Meera, the princess poetess of India has no equal, no sequel rather, in any part of the world . . . SaintTheresa, Saint Cecilia, were great lovers of the mystic and had communion with Christ.
“Meera, she was one with her beloved Sri Krishna and Subbulakshmi’s performance is not the performance that gives the illusion of the reincarnation of the princess-poetess- lover of Sri Krishna and for the two hours that we heard her singing the verses of Meera we felt that it was Meera herself come to life.
“And I am sure that whoever hears this wonderful voice, whoever watches the gestures of this wonderful artiste, whoever comes under the enchantment of her great gilts will agree with me that she is not an interpreter of Meera but Meera herself.
“I need no more words to commend her. She will take her to your hearts. You will cherish her; you will be proud that India in this generation has produced so supreme an artiste.”
------------------
Brundhavana kunja bavana
https://meera1947.blogspot.com/p/08.html

--
https://youtu.be/dAP8HtfH3Lc

[ganesh_mourthy]

RSR

The dil ek mandir link does not work

[RSR]

dil ek mandir - 1963- lata-rukja raath- shankar jaikishan- meenakumari

https://sites.google.com/site/decadesba ... andir-1963
sites.google.com/site/
decadesbacksongs/
special/
ruk-ja-raath-dil-ek-mandir-1963
Ganesh
I hope that the URL is right

[ganesh_mourthy]

It works now .

[RSR]

Lata Mangeshkar -
Garam Coat
(1955) -LATA was 25 then.
'jogiya se preet kiye dukh hoye'
-
uploaded by Archisman Mozumder
Music: Amarnath Chawla
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amar_Nath
A devotional song, by Meerabai.
https://youtu.be/sv7okOLlMUc
The tune is set in raag Manj Khamaj.
Sarangi accompaniment by
Pt. Ramnarayan

[RSR]

A nice semi-classical song (music-class-duet) by Lata and Asha in the 1955 film Miss Mary.
The uploader has mentioned the raaga as Tilang, but it may be a misra-version.
The music director was Hemantha Kumar Mukerji.
https://youtu.be/lb-qXjEVeRA
Lata was 25 then and Aasha her sister , 20.

[RSR]

Tilang as sung by Smt.MS
-------------------------
The first tune is from her first film 'Sevasadhanam' in 1938. She was 22 then. The lyrics and music were by P.Sivan. The film was co-produced by Director K.Subramanyam and Sri.T.Sadasivam.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... ara-tilang
-
It was not a film on any romance at all. Its theme was about the sufferings of poor girls .A translation in Thamizh is available in
viewtopic.php?p=370748#p370748
a synopsis.
----
The second example is from her Meera film -1945. The song lasts just for a minute .
https://meera1945.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_15.html
Music by S.V.Venkataraman

[ganesh_mourthy]

These songs take you to a different realm. Thank you RSR

[RSR]

ref -p-141
Ganesh
---
Glad that these have your approval.
Here is a 'tarana' by Lata- 1953 film by AVM.
Raaga Chandrakauns
slightly differing from Malkauns
https://youtu.be/ddwdk7YelI0
MUSIC by Daniram
The raagam has been discussed in 'raagas' section in this forum.
(RG have sung an abhang)

[ganesh_mourthy]

RSR

My approval should not be a point. People will enjoy it nonetheless. I think this is similar to the song in shivbhakthi where padmini dances . It may not be the same raaga . But sounds similar .

GM

[RSR]

In continuation of p-142
---------------------
There was a Thamizh film 'PeNN' in 1953, starring the dancer Vaijayanthi. It was produced by AVM . The Hindi version also had the same story and actress. with Kishore Kumar. The tarana' given in p-142 was the concluding part of a nice song by Lata . Wonderful dance by Vaijayanthi and wonderful lyrics too. Usually, the visual clips spoil the effect of great singing by Lata.. ( may be true of even MS!..
'BRUHI MUKUNDETH' in Savithri -1941 as Naaradar. ). But occasionally there are exceptions. This scene is one such. Film LADKI.
===========================================
ladki
https://youtu.be/EV8k4M7X3s0
.
Sudarsan was the in-house music director with AVM.
For this particular song , Dhaniram was the music director assisted by Sudarsanam.
======================
The translation and note are by my brother. I dont know Hindi.
-
There is no land like my motherland in the entire world
My motherland shines like most precious stone in the world
.
An incomparable land where the rivers Ganga and Yamuna flow
.
a land of great literary creations which no other land can boast of
.
a land of fertile earth and heavenly sky
.
There is no land like my motherland
---
2.
This is the land Lord Ram, Gautam Buddha and Gurunanakji
.
A land which gave birth to a noble soul in Mahatma GAndhi
.
And no other land can boast of such history
.
There is no land which is as good as my motherland
---
3.
this land of mine gave birth to so many noble souls
and great poets and singers like Mahakavi Kalidas and Tansen
And I am proud of my motherland

===========================================
Followed by tarana with presentation of three dance forms including Bharatanatyam .
=

[arasi]

RSR,
Thank you for the clips. I think Vyjayanthi was about fifteen when she appeared in peN, and then LaDki. Then came vAzhkai, a big hit.
To us youngsters who had already seen her on stage as a dancer, and also Kamala (as Baby Kamala first and then Kumari Kamala), at that time, Vyjayanthi was just a beautiful young thing who even in a dance performance would change costumes--such stunning ones, looking more beautiful than anyone else. We were certain that no one could beat Kamala in her art, expressions, flexibility and movement. That was a given. As a result, to us, Vyjayanthi was merely a very pretty presence, enhanced further by her dazzling wardrobe!
Now: As I saw her in this clip and in the previous one, I see how expressive she is. Kamala is still the winner. I saw a few of her clips recently and I can't change my mind about her being a boon who was born to dance her way into our hearts. Not in the very classical sense, of course (Balasaraswathi for that). Kamala had that quality which I do see in her sister too, and get moved by seeing her even now as a mature dancer. But Kamala is Kamala.
As for Vyjayanthi, more reach, more stardom, more years of gaining more talent and fans everywhere in India and elsewhere.
Yes, this is a beautiful clip and how expressive her eyes are--which I didn't notice that many years ago:(
I am digressing. As for Latha's singing, what can I say! Two music directors as it were, making it a so very pleasing tarAnA to hear...

[RSR]

Smt.MS , concerts and concert-song clips are now available from 1956. but not a single concert from her earlier years from 1936 to 1956. -20 years. (age 20 to 40). But for 78 RPM records, we would not know how sweet her singing was , full of Niravals, and occasional flashes of brugas. -Not lagging in swarams either. Here is a great kruthi in Vasantha raagam , composed by P.Siivan. A kruthi on Subramanya at Thiruccendoor. ..'maa dhayai nithi enum'. It is a studio-recorded song with some simple orchestration.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... nidhiyenum
---
This record must have been given sometime before 1940, judging by the voice.
---
Talking of 'brugaas', here is the ultimate classic in Jaijaivanthi from the film Seema' - Who else? Lata . Sarangi accompaniiment. Music by ShankarJaikishan. 1955
https://youtu.be/uXGMxTTB_Dg
-Lata was 25 then.
======================================
Smt.MS rendering the famous 'Chetasri baalakrushnam'...in Jujavanthi.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... lakrushnam
=============================

[arasi]

What a delight it is to listen to this! Thank you, RSR,
Like a babbling brook, her singing has no restraint whatsoever and yet it flows just within the sweet limits of what the rAgA and the lyrics allow . Sivan's offering too is simple but has superbly constructed verses that just blend in with the rAgA. Simple but sonorous accompanying music to boot!
So, this was what she sounded like then, the way most of us have read about her at that stage, but not have heard! Yes, a rare gem this--but how many have gone missing...
Thanks again.

[RSR]

'arasi' madam,
Thank you.
There are only about 100 'plates' of Smt.MS , from 1936 to 1956. but Lata would have sung atleast 1000 songs from 1946 to 1966. We have not heard all the thousand . May be, there are many more gems like the Seema Jaijaivanthi, ..Still, possibly due to the nature of Hindi film music and its music composers, there are very few songs which can be ranked with the best of Smt.MS , especially her Thamizh plates. Thamizh language gains great loveliness, when rendered by Smt.MS
as in 'kaalaith thookki Nindraadum dheyvame' in Yadhukulakaambothi.
Kalki has written a review about her rendering the song in a concert and audience response .
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... -nindradum
record- sometime in 1946

[RSR]

This is a raagamaalikaa from aruNachala kavi's famous set of kruthis. 'enakkun iru padham Ninaikka varam aruLvaay- sri raamachandra'.. The very first line is wonderful. The poet is not asking for any favour from the Lord except the boon to think of the Holy feet.
This 78 RPM record was given in 1935 itself. MS was just 19 then. How tender the voice!......She was a rage even before her first film 'SevaSadhanam'. -1938.
Thanks to P.Bala @Pratyaksham Bala who spotted it and shared.
-
The page that follows gives the lyrics and raagam information from book too. ( Raaga must be always sensed from the rendition and not from any book. Very often, they differ.. Rama Naataka kruthis have been retuned by many. )
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... iru-patham
-

[arasi]

Thanks P Bala for finding this rarity!

RSR,
This awesome all-encompassing 'story poem' of Arunachala kavi brought to life effortlessly by MSS was hitherto unheard by many of us, of course. Thanks to the valuable source too.

DKP's version of it which we were all familiar with was, needless to say, endearing. This, is a mountain spring winding its way down happily, telling the tale of the great RAma in an inspiring manner.