What constitutes a true dancer?

Valli · Post by **Valli** » 23 Mar 2006, 10:24

Lately in my training for my arangetram next year, I have been posed with the question of what makes up a great dancer. My guru insists that it is one who not only shows emotions on the face, but feels them from the heart. Accuracy and skill in the outward appearance, he says, is not enough though it is important. Only dancers who really feel what they are dancing will leave the audience with an impression or "touch" the audience.
What are your views?
Valli

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Mar 2006, 11:01

Valli, good luck with your preparations for next year's arangetram. What you have written is what I have heard people say as well. I do know enough to form a personal opinion... Actors says the same things too, they have to be pretty deep in character to bring out the true emotions.

Among singers a similar thing is felt as well. MDR, when he sings Varugalamo, I feel he is singing as if he is Nandanar himself speaking to Lord Shiva. It is really exhilarating. It all translates into subtle nuances... like his voice breaks just a little ( for probably less than half a second ) at the end of a really moving line.... I have heard Jazz players say the same thing.... 'you have to feel the thing'...

So, yeah, emotions coming from within when translated automatically to outward effects transmit something deep to the audience.

Valli · Post by **Valli** » 23 Mar 2006, 12:37

Thanks for the opinion, vasanthakokilam.
It seems all great minds think alike. True artists really feel their art.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 23 Mar 2006, 17:53

""
Technique is what you fall back on when you run out of inspiration.
Rudolf Nureyev""

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Mar 2006, 23:57

Valli,
GOOD LUCK on your arangEtRam/rangapravEsham!
Your question will evoke very subjective responses, but here's what it means to me:
I would like to combine what VK and Kulkarni sa'ab have said. IMO, there are several levels to dancing, and one can treat it as a purely performing art where greatness will be defined by the ability to communicate with the audience. Or one can treat it as a form of devotion, and if taken in the latter sense, there are 3 levels of dancing/dancers that I have seen:
Purely physical phase:
This is where the mastery of technique comes in: the ability to dance with the proper araimandi (the big fan/periya visirI fully spread out, heels not too far apart, back straight etc....), the ability to have perfect hasta mudrAs, clean and complete movements of the arms, keeping time etc. etc. etc....these are the things that make this dance form a visual treat - i.e. elevating it from a form of exercise to an aesthetic plane. And I am told that with repeated practice, a lot of this can be trusted to sheer 'muscle memory'.
Mental phase:
This where the dancer becomes mentally involved in the piece, and brings it to life - understands and portrays the emotions behind the piece: i.e. move the performance from an aesthetic plane to that of a 'drishya kAvyam' (visual poetry). Example would be to dance to 'krishNA nI bEganE bArO' portraying the moods of Yashoda and Krishna very realistically.
Spirutual phase:
When the dancer reaches this plane, she/he is no longer acting or trying to emote: she/he becomes one with the character. To use the same 'krishnA nI' example, instead of portraying yashOdA, the dancer becomes yashOdA. When this happens, the whole exercise transcends from a performance to 'nAtya yOgA', and the dancer is the devotee, priest, and even god all in one to the audience that is priviledged to watch this. I am sure that Balasaraswati's performances were of this caliber.
This is, of course, in addition to what the NS and AD list as desired traits in a dancer!
When done perfectly, a dancer in any of these stages is still delightful to watch...To aim for the spirutual phase before one's arangEtRam should not be expected, but, to try and understand the meaning of the composition, the mood and ethos of the composer, and to interpret it your way will all come as time goes on. Once the foundation (technique) is achieved the others will come with time, and with life experiences.
A truly great dancer, in my opinion, is one who has acheived the spiritual plane.
Ravi

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Mar 2006, 00:51

Well written Ravi....

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 24 Mar 2006, 07:22

Remember the last scene in Shyam Benegal's movie Ankur ?

Where Shabana Azmi vents her anger against the young landlord for thrashing her dumb husband -throwing handfuls of mud at his house and cursing repeatedly .
She once said in an interview that Shyam Benegal made her watch some very painful video clippings of the Indo Pak War -Shots of rape and murder-for hours together to build up the frustration and pain inside herself before emoting it on the screen.

Here is a clip from a great Doordarshan Video .of Kelucharan Mahapatra.Says it all in pictures.
http://rapidshare.de/files/16229386/KELU.MPG

Those of you have not got this , please grab it from your nearest AIR / Doordarshan Office.
It is worth a million rupees.

Rshankar
I recently came across a promotional video made by Doordarshan giving details of all the vcds of masters they have published.And the pity is that the outside world knows so little of it.
And that Chennai AIR Office says that they have only a few of these with them.The Rest ? you can only expect a shrug.
Strange but true.Even in this promotional vcd they procliam "LIMITED EDITIONS OF THESE VCDS OF MASTERS WILL NOW BE AVAILABLE TO PUBLIC"
Can you believe it.They want to limit the editions !!
As I went through the list of artists covered, i felt so sick, for their amateur ways of marketing.
In a separate thread I will put up the clips of each and every artist they have exhibited in this video.With the hope that we members can fan out to all the Doordarshan / AIR Kendras of India and find out which VCD is available where
Oh ! I and almost forgot.
Valli. Wish you the best of Luck ..

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Mar 2006, 08:00

Shankar

I agree with vk, that is an inspired writing. I wish the young dancers also get dyed in the philosophy in addition to learning the techniques. I have seen umpteen dance teachers in NA (almost one in every street corner) who have taken some lessons as a child and have practised with some DVDs offering to train the new generations into this artform! They have no concept of the puranas or even the context of the themes they put up. it will be nice to have some discussions on the aspects you have raised at this Forum!

coolkarni

Please tell how we folks living abroad can influence the AIR practices! Should we write to the Ministry of I &B?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Mar 2006, 08:27

""
Technique is what you fall back on when you run out of inspiration.
Rudolf Nureyev""

How true. One can relate to this at many levels. Even in the work place, you can see people who run out of ideas, inspiration and creativity will fall back on processes to get by.

Not that it is necessarily bad to fall back on technique...it alteast helps to bounce back and get back into inspiration..

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Mar 2006, 23:19

CML/VK thanks...it was heartfelt.

Just yesterday I was on the panel of a local student who is part of a global scholars' program. Her reserach and presentation was on the devadasi system of India and focused mainly on the ones in TN...and traced the origins of present day bharatanatyam to their dances. She did a very commendable job, and navigated the subject that was full of minefields with aplomb and elan!
It concluded with a clip from a performance: it was a technically awful video tape, the girls were not very proficient technically, BUT the silver lining was that they were obvioulsy enjoying it, and were in synch and kept to the tALam well...so, to me, there is nothing like a totally useless performance. Just the sound of the cymbals and the anklets can transport me to a world populated by the likes of Padma Subramaniam, Alarmel Valli, Malavika Sarukkai, Leela Samson and their ilk. But when technique merges with the spiritual, something so beautiful is created that you carry it within yourself if you were priviledged to watch it.

It has been very clear to me for many years now that DD needs to have it's head examined!
Kulkarni sa'ab, anyway of ordering those 'limited editions' from here?
Ravi

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Mar 2006, 02:58

They have no concept of the puranas or even the context of the themes they put up. it will be nice to have some discussions on the aspects you have raised at this Forum!

CML,
You are absolutely correct!
Knowledge of the purANAs is essential for a dancer to enact the sanchAri BAva (sTHAyi or static BAva, the literal or padhArTHa interprettation, is not very difficult), but to weave in the appropriate sanchAris (dynamic or moving BAva) requires an in-depth knowledge of the purANAs in addition to imagination that is married to a creative spirit...medicority in choreography (at least in Bharatanatyam) to me manifests in unvaried repitions of the sTHAyi BAva every time.
Ravi

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Mar 2006, 03:10

Here is a clip from a great Doordarshan Video .of Kelucharan Mahapatra.Says it all in pictures.
http://rapidshare.de/files/16229386/KELU.MPG
Those of you have not got this , please grab it from your nearest AIR / Doordarshan Office.
It is worth a million rupees.

Kulkarni sa'ab:
You have convinced me: I have the BN, and Kathak, VCDs from this series. I will order the rest from KB ASAP!!!
I will also recommend the DVDs from INVIS multimedia: B'natyam (Anita Ratnam), MohiniAttam (Dr. Omacheri Bhalla), sattriya and many more.

Do you know if DD will release Prof. Sudha Rani Raghupathy's Bharatanjali, and Dr. Padma Subramaniam's programs that were made for Madras DD?

Having had the opportunity to watch Odissi maestros like KM, and SP, Kathak virtuosos like BM, US and SS live, in addition to the numerous B'natyam dancers, I am able to see the line of unification between the dance forms, despite their obvious differences. I was very interested to learn that the dance form all over India had the same basic stance (arDHamandalI - half seated posture with knees turned out, thighs facing forward and heels close to each other) until the 14 or 15 century...after which it changed to the chauka in Odissi and the standing position was adopted in Kathak, while South of the Vindhya's the araimandi was retained! Wonder what socio-cultural event(s) catalyzed this change?
Ravi

Valli · Post by **Valli** » 26 Mar 2006, 09:29

Thanks for your indepth description of the three levels of dancing, Ravi. It was very enlightening to read and I have never looked on the art form in that manner. It will be sure to help me with my preparation.
At the moment I'm not doing so well with my abhinaya. My guru says that it is 'childish', 'superficial', and 'lacking in depth', but i'm working on it.
What Coolkarni says is very true. Accurate technique and inspiration are directly connected and I have first-hand experience of that.
Valli

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Mar 2006, 01:37

Valli,
Good luck with your preparations. Your level of involvement and interest alone will go a long way in making you a great dancer. aBinaya is wrongly understood as emotion: it is actually the expression or communication of emotion. So, first, you must feel the emotion, and then figure out how to communicate it: the thing with dance is that it needs to be communicated with just stylized facial gestures (use of mouth, eyebrows, eyes, and neck movements) and body language: you do not have the advantage of vAchika aBinaya (emotion expressed thro' speech) or Aharya aBinaya (emotion expressd thro' attire). I hope this helps with your aBinaya exercises.
Ravi

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 28 Mar 2006, 07:47

Valli,
Here is a web resource that I am sure you are aware of:
http://kalakendra.com/shopping/index.php?cPath=22
Hope it helps.
Ravi

Valli · Post by **Valli** » 28 Mar 2006, 11:59

Thanks

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 29 Mar 2006, 06:13

Valli,
If I may ask, what are the items in your araNgEtRam?
Ravi

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 04 Jun 2006, 13:56

If you don't mind me asking, Valli, how old are you?

Abhinaya improves with age (and sadly, nritta becomes more difficult!) because great abhinaya, of course, requires much maturity. If you take a top young dancer like Medha Hari, you find that her abhinaya alone is nothing special... not that it's bad, but it is IMO not on par with her fantastic nritta. Your abhinaya may look "childish" and "superficial" to your guru, but all you can do is continue to be mad about dance and the music to which you are dancing. I would not worry too much at this time. Don't waste your time with DVDs, VCDs, CD-ROMS, and whatever else. Study song lyrics and the stories in our religion associated with those lyrics and sattvik abhinaya will gradually flow out of you... !

Also, perhaps I have been taught by my Guru to interpret it differently, but I feel aharya abhinaya is indeed present and important in dance... the jewelry and costume you wear say a lot.

Good luck with the arangetram!!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Jun 2006, 21:03

If you don't mind me asking, Valli, how old are you?
If you take a top young dancer like Medha Hari, you find that her abhinaya alone is nothing special... not that it's bad, but it is IMO not on par with her fantastic nritta. Good luck with the arangetram!!

For those who are unaware who Medha Hari is, check out her website. Umesh is correct: her nrita is fantastic, and from what I have seen in clips from her performance, she wisely choses pieces for abhinaya that are appropriate for her age/experience.
http://www.medhahari.com

Her araimandi is just fantastic...She seems to have mastered the kinesiology of this position, and is able to accomplish it flawlessly, everytime. Her height in this position goes down to almost half her standing stature, like it is supposed to!

Ravi

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Jun 2006, 21:10

Also, perhaps I have been taught by my Guru to interpret it differently, but I feel aharya abhinaya is indeed present and important in dance... the jewelry and costume you wear say a lot.

Meena helped me sometime ago in my quest to understand the origins of the current stitched pyjama-like costume for bharatanatyam: Once again, the credit for the creation of this stitched costume of deceptive simplicity, and untold elegance, appears to go to none other than Rukmini Devi Arundale, who is supposed to have designed it with the help of an Italian seamstress employed at Kalakshetra. She also replaced the garish jewellry with the current jewellry worn by dancers. In the kutcheribuzz website, a long time ago, Prof. Sudharanai Raghupati had explained the significance of the costume and jewellry in detail. (Examples of the costume and jewellry worn before can be seen in the tribute to E. Kishna Iyer brought out by the MMA - they looked chunky and 'way uncool').
Ravi

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Jun 2006, 00:19

Yes, aahaarya abhinaya constitutes an impt. and glamorous part of BN recital, enhancing the beauty,charm, and aesthetic value of the performance and at the same time possessing a deeper significance and meaning.

The costumes forms a vitial part of the aahaarya and complements the ornaments and the beauty of the dancer, hence it should be of a pleasing color well-stitched worn in a dignified manner, and allowing free movement.

Each traditional piece of temple jewellery possesses a special significance.
Like for example 'rakodi' worn on the back of the head is set with the navaratnas and is said to prevent migraine. The 'chandran sooryan' (moon and the sun) worn on the top pf the head signify that their beauty and grace have descended upon the dancer.The 'thalai saaman' is worn to emphasize the line of the forehead. The 'mookuthi' (nose ring) is said to preserve chastity. The 'maatal' worn covering the ears is to protect the eardrums. The 'maangaa maalai' worn on the chest above the navel, prevents pulmonary disorders. the 'oddiyaanam 'or belt keeps the spinal cord straight. 'Bangles' protect the wrists, 'rings' encourage philanthrophy when worn by women, and 'anklets' give strenght to the ankes of the dancer.

Ranjie · Post by **Ranjie** » 05 Jun 2006, 00:37

Hello ! I'm new to this forum. I learn Odissi and it was very interesting to see a link to clips of Guru Kelucharan Mohapatra. But, unfortunately, that file has been deleted by the owner already. That reminds, me a website called www.ignca.in, if I'm not mistaken, has wonderful clips of Guruji's abhinaya.

Valli, I'm happy to know you will have your arangetram soon. Wish you all the best. Empathise with your dance and your movements. Place yourself in the situations you try to depict and the emotions will come out all by themselves.

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Jun 2006, 00:44

Ranjie
welcome to the forum.

the website is :
DELETED

Ranjie · Post by **Ranjie** » 05 Jun 2006, 01:02

Thanks for the correction !

Also, the bit on what each component of the temple jewellery signifies was also very informative.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Jun 2006, 06:20

Here are some additions to Meena's great description. Please correct me if I am wrong: the 'pyjama' like outfit is well suited for the 'araimanDi' posture, and the big fan (periya visiri) fans out beautifully when the 'araimanDi' is indeed achieved.
The netti chuTTi represents a line of symmetry: symmetry in the movement of the limbs of the dancer, as well as symmetry in stage coverage. The single long braid symbolises a line of symmetry in yet another plane while representing the kundalini, which will be awakened and ascend if the 'nAtya yOga' is practiced appropriately.
Ravi

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:08

shankar

what does the flowers represent?

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 05 Jun 2006, 10:58

Just a little tidbit for people who may not know...

The thalai saamaan and flower arrangements used in Bharata Natyam are directly taken from a South Indian bride's head dress with some additions and/or modifications. It is a simplified version of the traditional bridal attire. The devadasis were considered "wives of God," so it makes sense that they would be made-up to look like brides.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Jun 2006, 21:22

shankar
what does the flowers represent?

AFAIK, they represent auspiciousness...and will go with what Umesh has written....bride of god, nitya sumangalI etc...
On a lighter vein, I had an uncle who used to say that the reason a bride from those days kept her head bowed was 2 fold, and neither had anything to do with girlish modesty: The kunjalam at the end of her braid used to be so heavy, and tug hard at the bride's head, that she would have to keep her head bowed forward to prevent it from being pulled backwards; and secondly, if the bride's nose ring was made from high quality diamonds, walking with her head held up would cause the light to be reflected off the diamonds very uncomfortably into her eyes!
:cheesy:
Ravi

meena · Post by **meena** » 05 Jun 2006, 23:29

rshankar wrote:

On a lighter vein, I had an uncle who used to say that the reason a bride from those days kept her head bowed was 2 fold, and neither had anything to do with girlish modesty: The kunjalam at the end of her braid used to be so heavy, and tug hard at the bride's head, that she would have to keep her head bowed forward to prevent it from being pulled backwards; and secondly, if the bride's nose ring was made from high quality diamonds, walking with her head held up would cause the light to be reflected off the diamonds very uncomfortably into her eyes!

shankar
i too have heard the same reasons that ur uncle provided.(from an old telugu movie , song sequence, i cant reacll the name now) thanks .

Indu45 · Post by **Indu45** » 26 Jul 2006, 09:01

take a top young dancer like Medha Hari, you find that her abhinaya alone is nothing special...

Umesh, did you get this impression after watching those tiny video clips on her site? These clips are so blurred that one can hardly see her expressions there at all!

I watched her DVDs (got them on http://www.JayQ.org ), and could appreciate her abhinaya - it made a GREAT DIFFERENCE!

I am sure that watching a dancer close on the stage would even enhance the impression because you would see the dancer's face very well.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 26 Jul 2006, 09:34

Indu,

You forgot to quote the second part of that remark: "not that it's bad..."

Medha Hari is a great dancer in all respects and I was an instant fan when I saw her clips (though recently so much talk of her has turned me off a little). Her abhinaya, however, is not at the level of excellence her nritta is, and at her age, no one really expects it to be. I've seen mostly those clips but I have also seen parts of the DVD on a large television screen. I am reminded of a comment I read somewhere-- everything she does has a touch of sringara in it... done in a somewhat 'cutesy' way. Interpret that as you may, but she is a young girl, so while she has maturity in abhinaya this does not mean that she excels in it and has the ability to move people like she does with her nritta, or at least not in the same capacity. Maybe she does for you--- I shan't argue with that.

Or maybe I'm just picky, since very few dancers' abhinaya really (and I mean really!) touch me.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 28 Jul 2006, 19:41

Did not want to start a separate topic for this. hence posting here. This is a review posted today in the Friday review section of The Hindu(Bangalore edition). Ravi, any comments?

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2006/07/28/stor ... 180300.htm

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 29 Jul 2006, 03:58

The traditional mArgam (mArga in kannaDA and telugu) is indeed the creation of the the tanjAvUr quartette, who with typical genius arranged the items with gradually ascending complexity peaking with the padavarNam - the centerpiece of any traditional performance. The underlying sublimity/divinity of the order of the items was explained by Balasaraswati many years later (she was part of their guru-sishya parampara): entering the temple (alArippu); traversing the ardhamanTapam (jatiswaram); entering the sanctum-sanctorum (shabdam); the ecstacy of darshan of the lord (the varNam); quiet communion with the Lord (padams and jAvaLIs); the incandescent dIpArAdhana and leave taking (tillAnA and mangaLam) that ends the journey.....

RDA modified the content of the items and not the format: she used 'non-erotic' compositions, or substituted bhajans for the usual earthy padams and jAvaLIs...I think that one of her major contribution was in the creation of the stitched 'pyjama-like', now traditional outfit for bharatanATyam dancers - apparently, she came up with the idea with the help of an Italian seamstress in Kalakshetra; and the creation of the elegant jewelry to replace very amateurish clothes and chunky jewelry that was worn by many (not all) dancers before her...

Ravi

Thirusha · Post by **Thirusha** » 02 Oct 2006, 19:11

rshankar wrote:The traditional mArgam (mArga in kannaDA and telugu) is indeed the creation of the the tanjAvUr quartette, who with typical genius arranged the items with gradually ascending complexity peaking with the padavarNam - the centerpiece of any traditional performance. The underlying sublimity/divinity of the order of the items was explained by Balasaraswati many years later (she was part of their guru-sishya parampara): entering the temple (alArippu); traversing the ardhamanTapam (jatiswaram); entering the sanctum-sanctorum (shabdam); the ecstacy of darshan of the lord (the varNam); quiet communion with the Lord (padams and jAvaLIs); the incandescent dIpArAdhana and leave taking (tillAnA and mangaLam) that ends the journey.....

Ravi

I didnt know that. I knew the 'format' of a maargam, but this just sounds so nice, so full of love for the Lord.