Contrast the two: In the minimal entropy state the potential to do work is maximum, omnipotent, but no work needs to be performed. In the maximal entropy state, the potential to do work is minimum and no work can be performed.
vk,
there is a tamil song similar to this- 'muLLu munaiyilE mooNu kuLam vettinEn, reNdu kuLam pAzhu, oNNulE thannIiyE ilai'- I dug three ponds- two were dry and one did not have water.
there is more to it; I dont remember;probably my mother may know.
I am amazed at the similarities of thoughts!
Last edited by PUNARVASU on 20 Jul 2008, 01:27, edited 1 time in total.
Another song of Purandaradasa which I like is 'ikkalArada kai yenjilO'-wherein he talks about people, who give various reasons for not doing charity-the house wife tells the 'dasayya who come for alms -'my hands are not cleaan,children are crying, there is baby on my lap crying for milk, whatever money I have is not een enough for buying provsions for us etc. etc.'
Punarvasu wrote:vk,
there is a tamil song similar to this- 'muLLu munaiyilE mooNu kuLam vettinEn, reNdu kuLam pAzhu, oNNulE thannIiyE ilai'- I dug three ponds- two were dry and one did not have water.
there is more to it; I dont remember;probably my mother may know.
I am amazed at the similarities of thoughts!
Punarvasu: yes, they are very similar. May be adaptations? Until I read that link provided by Nanda, I did not know about such compositions/poems by Purandaradasa. And then you point out there is a traditional song in Tamil also, along the same lines. Reading the English translation is one thing ( it just reads like any other puzzle ) but reading it in Tamil gives a strange feeling. "What are they talking about here, what is the meaning, is it some old code words that we do not know about" etc. It is hard to describe.
Probably reflecting on the impermanence of life- the futility of all our material pursuits or some such thing.
'Reminds me of the lines-'kAyamE idu poyyadA kAtradaitta paiyyadA'.
I think we should start a separate thread to discuss -such folk songs and the philosophy behind them- folks songs from variou parts of the country and even from abraod; just to find out about the similarities of the human mind the world over.
Proverbs are another example of this sort. They say the same thing but in different languages. In some proverbs, even the props are the same--as with muLLu munai!
This particular song starts with an impossible premise: muLLu munai--and the hopelessness grows with each line.
VK,
The puzzle? While there could be many explanations for it, I feel this is one way of looking at it. The puzzle itself, or going through it-- the very exercise, is the solution. The very well-known BuddhA parable has a question and answer in it: distraught mother whose child is dead falls at his feet asking him to revive the child. He asks her to bring a handful of mustard seeds from a house in the village where the shadow of death has not fallen. We know how futile a search it is. She too comes to know of it at the end. The puzzle has the resolution built in. Though it is not a solution after her own heart, she realizes her foolishness, and perhaps at some point will get to accept her misfotrune .
I think these songs were sung (penned) by the wise ones, as counseling aids. Of course, songs were born out of folks who were toiling away too: to allay boredom, to divert themselves from hard work and to express their emotions, among other things...
Both in the story and the song, is that what it is? That life is a struggle, and at times can be the nadir of existence, a bundle of impossibilities, nd that shouldn't stop you--if the space is as little as the point of a thorn, water ha sto be had and the workmen are the disabled and the blind...
Arasi, I understand. I can relate to that in general.
But there is a pattern to the song. There are always three and they are grouped into two categories. The first category consists of two things and the second category consists of one thing. The characterization of the first category and the second category are different though they seem to mean the same thing on first glance.
Like, there were three people, two were blind and one does not even have an eye. That pattern holds through out the song.
holes in two pots, no bottom for the other pot
three ponds, two have gone dry, one never had water
The one commonality is, the first group once had it (water, eye etc ) but then lost it where as the second group never had it. The end result is the same ( no water, can't see ).
Again, I do not know if any special meaning has to be derived from that way of grouping and drawing a distinction but given the consistency of that pattern, it is intentional. What is the intention?
I am intrigued!
Like the 'chicken and egg story', which came first? The kannada version or the Tamil one? (Not that it matters).
Or did they both arise in the minds of the poets, independent of each other? Word to word, they are the same!
Last edited by PUNARVASU on 22 Jul 2008, 04:54, edited 1 time in total.
Nandagopal,
Thanks for the two articles.
Nature inspired, their hopes and tragedies sung simply from the heart, these folks from the river country and elsewhere--toilers in the fields too--sang their hearts out.
While clothed in the unrecognizable trappings of a cinematic setting, the meaningfulness of it all is lost. 'tum mOre bandhurE' from Sujatha is an exception for me, since I was very young then, and Bimal Roy and Burman captured my imagination!
arasi: i can relate to what you say about adaptations for cinema; indeed Bimal Roy and SD Burman are such an inspiration! Lets journey to the far western land of sand dunes and camels..........
a few months back i heard Md. Bhutte Khan and his troupe sing kesaria balam, nimbuda nimbuda, dama dam mast kalandar and others to the accompaniment of the khamaich and khartaal.. an unforgettable experience indeed..
“Gorbandhâ€
Last edited by knandago2001 on 23 Jul 2008, 22:52, edited 1 time in total.
punarvasu, thanks.. a commercial album featuring the Belfast Orchestra with the Chieftains (a tribute to the legend Edward Bunting) has very soothing strains of the harp.. provides for a great listening experience.
nandagopal,
Thank you for posting the links chronologically. whenever I see the Irish dancing, I am reminded of the natural instinct in humans for keeping the beat with one's feet!
Though Irish dancing has gone through changes, it hasn't lost its essence. Even in modern times, it is just the 'production' which has changed--in staging, lighting and in technological aids. The pure form of the original is intact in spite of all the new influences...
Can anybody post 'ON THE EVER GREEN TREE' by Cliff Richard ? Somehow, I am very partial to things that are old, like OPN's music,riding in a bullock cart in a village road, enjoying the greeneries around, tasting manapparai murukku while on a train journey from TRICHY TO Madurai, similarly tasting boli at a station near Tenkasi, stories in Kalaimagal and ananda vikatan more than 50 years back.. IS IT A PHOBIA? GOBILALITHA
YES,it is kadambur Poli. Stories were by anuttama,lakshmi.devan and so on .tuppariyum novels by Vaduvoor Doraiswamy Iyengar. At TRICHY, Peninsular cafe. Happy that t here is another friend andt hat too a prolific writer to share my nostalgia. gobilalitha
Nostalgia is contagious; once somebody starts writing about 'old times' every body starts travelling down the memory lane.
I also remember how we were so interested in the 'Deepavali malars' than in the 'Deepavaali bakshanams and pattasus(crackers). Am reminded of the 'nei omappodi(made in gheee) from the Tiruvaarur temple madappalli, pEraLam vadaai , the cashewnut from AdanakkOTTai, a bath in the kamalAlayam , the list is endless.
As Arasi said,nostalgia does drive out phobia.
Thanks , raagam talam,I was always wondering why I have fallen in love with this song. Probably, because it is in raag mohanam. Now , why not a thread for foreign songs in our raagas, Once again mohanam will be the number one,AS ALMOST ALL JAPANESE AND CHINESE MELODIES ARE EITHER IN MOHANAM OR BILAHARI Gobilalitha
Country music is mainly mOhanam, and the intro and conclusion on the violin in the song is just that. I cannot say Cliff Richard does any justice to the rAgA! Well, pop music had to wait until the Beatles came along. Paul' Mc Cartney's Mull of Kintyre has a pretty mOhanam imprint...
Last edited by arasi on 12 Aug 2008, 20:59, edited 1 time in total.
I'm no Beatles expert, even though I did grow up during that period (always a late developer, I did not realise the brilliance of their melodies until much later) --- but does raga appear in music? Given their time in India, and their involvement with Ravi Shankar, I'd be surprised if it didn't, but I wouldn't know where to start looking.
Nick, your mention of the Fab Four brought a flood of memories...
George Harrison's 'Within you without you' was the one song that was most influenced by Indian classical music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbPj3d90qME
Nick,
You know enough about indian ways of thinking--sometimes, you think it too . Just as dwelling on the subject of the resemblance of a child to various members of the family, this-- 'doesn't this song sound like a particular rAgA or an indian song?' is another hobby of ours, I suppose! I am not establishing the mOhanam in Mull of Kintyre, but I can't help hearing it. Even before Ravi Shankar (not our own buddy here), my guess is that their fascination with american music--along with Elvis, jazz, country too (?) could have exposed The Beatles to mOhanam--sounding tunes.
As Gobilalitha says, most of oriental music sounds like mOhanam, just as middle eastern music is redolent with sindhu bhairavi!
Last edited by arasi on 13 Aug 2008, 03:06, edited 1 time in total.
ragam-talam,
I hear more of tilang and bahudhAri as Punarvasu does, and a fleeting glimpse of valaji. Nick understands this now, a true indian that he is!
Yes! your nostalgia quote makes me laugh. By the way, what IS sogreat about nostalgia these days? In our days, blah blah blah...
The song of Harrison mentioned by ragam-talam in post 33 reminds me of 'TANDI TANDI' byAshaBhosle in filmJagteRaho , music by SalilChoudry said to have been set in theraag, Tilak khamod. any takers? Another song picturised on Raj Kapoor in an inebriated mode in this film,sung by Mukesh; Zindagi khwab hai ' was a great hit. occupying top position in BinacaGeet Mala for many weeks.. Oh! my nostalgia, don't trouble me againand again gobilalitha
A discussion of folk tunes would be incomplete without these gems from Salil Choudhury.....
Many years ago, I saw an interview with him on DD where he said how he'd been captivated by the folk-music from Assam, and when he scored the music for madhumati, he could not resist using the tunes and instruments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKrM4lj8 ... re=related
Does anyone know the name of the instrument featured at approximately 4:05 or so into this song for a few seconds? Another thing that occured to me is the universal appeal of dancing with sticks - from kOlaTTam in TN, to the DaNDiyA in Gujrat, and now this from Assam.
Of course, the breathtaking beauty of Vyjayantimala and her grace, or the dulcet tones of Lata did not exactly hinder the popularity of these tunes! A great advertisement for folk melodies.
Does anyone know the name of the instrument featured at approximately 4:05 or so into this song for a few seconds?
Good catch there Ravi. I do not know what it is either and I am also curious. I searched in google images for Indian folk musical instruments and did not find anything that matches what was in the video.
Dr. Kulkarni, an expert on world folk instruments from Bangalore--
might help out there. Months ago, we had a review of her concert with rare instruments.
Ravi: The meter long flute-like instrument, held vertically while playing it, is the filili (also known as fifli) from assam and popular among the Sema and Lhota tribes http://www.4to40.com/music/print.asp?id=35
Madhya Pradesh
“Aalha is a ballad very popular in the Bundelkhand region but its singers are spread beyond the region too. It narrates the tales of two warrior brothers- Aalha and Udal who were in the service of Raja Piramal of Mahoba. Its singing style is very dynamic and full of the flavour of war. Beginning with a prayer to 'devi' or goddess, renditions include various incidents from this very lengthy ballad. Styles of singing differ from region to region but it is usually sung in the monsoon months - the time villagers get after sowing grain in fields after the first monsoon showers. Villagers gather around the village chaupal and Aalha singers, always men, take centre stage.â€
I am reminded of our own folk songs by kuppuswami and ANITA KUPPUSWAMY. . he swears our carnatic music is only anoffshoot of tamil foljksongs which he popularises..gobilalitha
. Just as dwelling on the subject of the resemblance of a child to various members of the family, this-- 'doesn't this song sound like a particular rAgA or an indian song?' is another hobby of ours, I suppose! I am not establishing the mOhanam in Mull of Kintyre, but I can't help hearing it. Even before Ravi Shankar (not our own buddy here), my guess is that their fascination with american music--along with Elvis, jazz, country too (?) could have exposed The Beatles to mOhanam--sounding tunes.