prayOga flexibility and well-known rAgas

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 03 Jan 2009, 06:51

Sriram V .reports on the discussions that covered rudrapriyA, karnATaka kApi, darbAr and kAnaDa at
http://sriramv.wordpress.com/2008/12/31 ... mber-2008/

One interesting observation reported by him is quoted below:

>>There was a debate here as to how when the ascent and descent scales specify a sequence, notations for songs appear to vary from it. SP (Suguna Purushottaman) was of the view that even in ragas such as Shankarabharanam, we use phrases such as SDP, SP etc, but because the raga is so well known everyone accepts. On the other hand Rudrapriya being a less well-known raga, there is an emphasis to adhere to the scales<<

What do fellow rasikas think of this explanation relating how well known a rAga is to the degree to which one is ready to accept deviations from the prescribed ArOhaNa/avarOhaNa?

I wonder if there are other/additional factors at play, beyond how well known the rAgas are.

Could it be, simply, that such non-conforming prayOgas themselves pre-date attempts to discipline the rAga by forcing it into the 72 mEla scheme? (e.g. SP or SDP in s'bharaNa). Antiquity is not the same as familiarity, as some really old rAgas have fallen into oblivion and some recent rAgas have become very well known.

A related hypothesis is that rAgas of paNN origin have more such non-aa phrases.

Could it be a mere sampling effect, with rAgas that have a larger corpus of extant compositions admitting of greater variety than those known by one or a few extant compositions?

Could it be the presence of closely allied rAgas that makes some more rigid than others. I'm thinking specifically of the mALava gauLa clan, where virtually every sequence appears to be taken. If you take liberties with jaganmOhiNi, gauLa may surface and mess up your party, for example.

Thoughts and examples/counterexamples welcomed.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 04 Jan 2009, 13:40

Shama-shastri - Thyagaraja and Mutthuswami Dikshitar, and the musicologists their songs seem to follow - Govinda and Venkatamakhi, belonged to a time when writing was well established. Govinda and Venkatamakhi have enumerated and given the lakshana gIta-s for all the ragas used by the latter two Vaggeyakaras, to say the very least.
All traditional non-scale-oriented-ragas, however, have a swarupa which can't be encapsulated in ArOha-avarOha. The lakshana gIthas too, are useless in elucidating characteristic gamakas and anyaswara prayogas, if they learn from a book, and not from someone who has learnt it in the oral tradition.
For all major rAgas which have been extant since more than two hundred years, it is possible to show phrases and sancharas out of the scope of the ArOha-avarOha.

Vainika in response to your suggestion about rigidity in allied ragas, I feel that the same sancharas may repeat in allied ragas without faltering, by keeping in mind :
- frequency of the Sanchara in the two ragas.
- Anuswara (Microtonal )differences in the same note in two rAgas.
- Application of characteristic Gamakas(graces) and kAku(Slurs) which will irrevokably establish the identity of the rAga in mind.
This can be demonstrated(and i think it has been ) with any pair/set of allied rAgas.

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 08 Jan 2009, 02:06

keerthi wrote: - Application of characteristic Gamakas(graces) and kAku(Slurs) which will irrevokably establish the identity of the rAga in mind.

Thanks. I am not familiar with the term kAku. Could you explain with an illustration? thanks,

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 08 Jan 2009, 22:29

Kaku ("slur") reminds me of the way the madhyamam is handled by certain artistes in certain janyas of Shankarabharanam

But seriously, I think Keerthi has captured it very well. Most of the major ragas probably pre-date codification/the melakartha scheme...since the scheme is foisted on certain ragas, it is only fair that some latitude be shown for prayogas that do not strictly adhere to the a-a sequence.

After a very Kalyani-ish Dharmavathi last season, 1 vidwan was heard saying to another "but how would you react if I said that a Kalyani sounded like Dharmavathi!". My response would have been that there is an implied hierarchy of ragas which has a bearing on what is appropriate and what is not.

I would approach the permissibility of prayogas in a given raga as follows (this is of course very much a lay opinion):

The composition bank should the first point of reference. They are not always 100% logical but our music is so inextricably linked to the works of half a dozen composers that this has to be accepted. But as Keerthi points out, attention must be paid to frequency, tone and charactertistics of gamakas. No anti a-a sequence that does not have legitimacy of established compositions (the adjective is obviously very important) should be permitted.

Sequences not established by compositions but within the aa ambit - whether straight, vakra or varja - need to be mapped to other ragas that include the sequence. The relevant points to be considered are 1) The relative importance of the phrase to the "competing raga" 2) The relative importance of the "competing raga" itself and all of Keerthi's points - in particular, the artiste should evaluate options for using the notes in a manner that can be distinguished from other ragas that use the sequence.

Needless to add, squeezing out a novel phrase keeping in mind the above constraints is not an easy job..."periyavaallam ellam panni vechhootu poita" as they say...still more vexatious is the question of whether it will lead to an aesthetically appealing result ("meedhi irukaradhellam odhikki veccha kuppai"). Such additions, especially, in established ragas would require a very high degree of musical proficiency but unheard of either - In Sanjay's podcast I learnt about how the power of the Dhaivatha in Kalyani had been unravelled in the krithi, Nijadasavarada. Similarly some ingenious brain found a role for the Madhyamam in Kharaharapriya (Sivan perhaps) resulting in the phrase d,nd p,dp M which is now standard fare in alaapanas in the raga.

In relatively virgin ragas (very often melakartha scales) such as Vakulabharanam or Kokilapriya, the uniquness of sequences often involve stringing together all of the 5 variables swaras and the room for vakras/varjas is generally greater.

Finally we have to consider "embellishments" that fly in face of raga lakshana - Nishadam in Khamas for example. Such deviations require such a powerful aesthetic logic so as to acquire a bhashanga-legitimacy. Naturally this requires the connivance of a broad spectrum of the musical community and is not always easy to achieve.

There is another side to the coin - whether a particular sequence can be avoided in an alaapana at all...or certain notes sung without a characteristic gamaka...even if these omissions do not intrude on the territory of other ragas...I think the Nilambari incident is again a case in point!

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 09 Jan 2009, 12:56

kAku is effective modulation of the voice. It is tool which can be used to great effect to accentuate the swarUpa of a rAga/krthi and also to augment the emotive content of the song. KAku is an important tool which can be used in different ways to portray different bhAvas in the same AlApana or krthi rendition.
It was used by BMK, M.Santhanam and Oleti to great effect.

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 09 Jan 2009, 21:41

keerthi wrote:kAku is effective modulation of the voice. It is tool which can be used to great effect to accentuate the swarUpa of a rAga/krthi and also to augment the emotive content of the song. KAku is an important tool which can be used in different ways to portray different bhAvas in the same AlApana or krthi rendition.
It was used by BMK, M.Santhanam and Oleti to great effect.

Can kAku be used in Raga alapana too?I mean as an example,can we use kAku to represent bhayankara effectively in Shanmukhapriya or the sangathi governs how the rasas are represented by the raga?

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 10 Jan 2009, 13:09

Kaku can and should be used in any musical piece, from the geetham onwards, to highlight the musical and bhAva related details. Along with sangathis, it serves to create the rasAtmaka environment of the rAga.I opine that, if the phrases and sancharas establish the sthAyi bhava of the raga, the kaku usages can portray multifarious sanchAri bhavas.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 10 Jan 2009, 13:11

Keerthi I don't think I have understood exactly what it means. Can you post links to a short clip perhaps? Or at least a phrase from a popular song which is typically embellished with a kaku?

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 10 Jan 2009, 14:56

Adding to Vijay's question, to which of the six types of kAku described in this Carnatica glossary are you referring?

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 12 Jan 2009, 13:37

I looked at the Carnatica glossary and, honestly, wasn't familiar with Parshvadeva's account of Kaku. However his descriptions of swara kaku and raaga kaku come close to what I have in mind.My understanding of Kaku arises from the Natya shAstra.

In as much as examples, I am severely handicapped by my Techno-illiteracy, even typing with two index fingers is something I am rather inept at..

If one were to sing Sa gmPa (sadharana ga, suddha ma) with equal weightage or emphasis for all the notes, it would be an Abheri phrase. The same phrase with a nokku or emphasis on the ga[indicated by a fresh pluck, if on the veena] will be a rItigaula phrase. if we listen to the two versions of Ninnu vina mari galada of Shama shastri, sung in these two rAgas, we can appreciate the role of emphasis on particular notes; which is one aspect of kAku.

NAyaki is replete with phrases which atre enlivened by the kAku employed. Sing the ArOha/avarOha plain and then sing/ play on a keyboard the phrases dNi,,pmr- pdNi,,pmr-mpdNi,,pmr-dndnpmrGa/rs without any intonation or modulation of volume... It will sound like devamanohari(with the other ga) or some such raga. The rAga gets its identity from the dNi,,(n) where the Ni diminishes into a gentle n, and the rGa/r gets the NAyaki motif only when ga is just ri rising to it upper limit, briefly touching g and ebbing into ri again. The raga's identity is established when the amplitude of ga rises and recedes.

Hope this makes things clear, and not more muddled!!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 12 Jan 2009, 23:42

Thanks Keerthi - it is beginning to get clearer. I did not know about the Abheri version of Ninnu Vina - would be intersting to hear! But the Gandharam in Reethigowla is too strongly associated with jantais for me to pick out the Kaku. From the Nayaki description I can understand it a little better

Thanks for taking the trouble to explain

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 13 Jan 2009, 20:33

Keerthi,unfortunately I got even more confused

I read your post twice and also correlated with the Carnatic glossary of the definition of Swara Kaku.Is this not the same as defining a lakshana for a raga-emphasis on Jiva Swaras.The treatment of a particular swara to define the raga-is this not the normal stuff that a Guru would teach a shishya?For example-deergha kampita Ga for thodi as against the treatment of Ga in hindolam for example-Is this swara kAku?

This link is a cache from the old Sangeetham.com which discusses Shankarabharanam-is there anything that you can point to exactly which points to kAku?

http://209.85.175.132/search?q=cache:4h ... =clnk&cd=2

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 15 Jan 2009, 12:42

Vijay,
MLV's ninnu vina in abheri is available on sangeethapriya.

Kartik,
Try singing the stock outline of atAna, pmpsD,,; pmprsD,,; pmpS,,/N,,/D,,,, Here, the S,,/N,,/D,,,, phrase employs kAku; the s-n-d notes aren't sung, like they would be played on a keyboard, but with a combination of JAru gamaka and kaku.
there is a difference between emphasis as in repetition for emphasis, and using modulation of notes to underscore the raga swarUpa. Some common usages of kaku are taught by teachers as part of songs etc, i agree; but they are few and far apart, and some of them are cliched.
kAku, is a musical device quite distinct from gamaka(s) and is not used as much in Manodharma music as i would like it to be.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 15 Jan 2009, 17:18

Thanks Keerthi will look it up

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 Jan 2009, 21:19

keerthi - IMHO, the best way to illustrate would be to also post a tiny audio sample to go along with explanation. That way more people can benefit from it.

Arun

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 18 Jan 2009, 22:49

I second (third?) this request for an audio demo: I remain confused about what a kAku is and isn't.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 22 Jan 2009, 16:10

Someone will have to give me a tutorial as to how i should upload an audio clip. i can get till the stage of mp3-ification by myself.. tat-paschAt ??

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 22 Jan 2009, 23:44

post it on esnips.com, archive.org etc.

vageyakara · Post by **vageyakara** » 14 Apr 2009, 17:28

Dear Vainika and other s you all have dealt in detail on the above ,important subject I just now happened to come across the same . It is very interestimg and I am avery happy to note that how our formites are getting inured to a very intricate aspect which requires an instinctive knowledge about ragas, which quite obviously is absent in most of the performing artists.
AND now to deal with KALYAANI AND DHARMAVATY I have the following observarion to put in hereunder.
one famous vidushi , some years back during her concert(MYLAPORE FINE ARTS) started singing a raga from MA PA DHA NI SA; PA DHA NI SA ;NI MA PA DHA NI SA NI SARI SAMA RI SA NI RI SA NI DHA
PA MA PA RI SA NI DHA ; like wise for more than five minutes sailing in the same region with no semblance whatso ever of which raga she was going to eloborate.! needless to say that unless one touches the Ghandharam the above sanchaaras would result only in mind bogling exercises amomgst discerning Rasikas. And finally by god's grace she could touch upon Antara Ghandharam and rendered Kalyani. Till then one of my friends who was sitting next to me EMPHATICALLY arguing it out to be DHARMAVATI !
This should serve as a lesson to up-and coming artists to adhere to the basic principle of touching the
JEEVA SWARAM IN ANY PARTICULAR RAGAM at the very first instance and develope it to further areas of Raga vistAram.And finally the artist I referred was Bombay Jayashri(mumbai )
KR

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Apr 2009, 12:43

I hope Keerthi has not forgotten about some audio samples to further illustrate 'kaku'.

And to the original topic that vainika asked about, my sympathy lies with what Smt. Suguna Purushottaman said. We can definitely include ancient ragas and add the familiarity dimension to it.

A few specific points.

1) In a discussion before about Shankarabaranam a few members mentioned with conviction that Shankarabaranam is not an ancient raga but came about as a result of the melakartha classification system. I was surprised by that but given the conviction with which that was stated and that I did not have any counter evidence, I did not pursue that further.

2) Who actually took it upon themselves and made the Aro/Ava conformance as a requirement for raga? Does Venkatamakhin explictly state that? I know his biggest concern was bringing ragas under some well defined slots. The most useful practical use of the mela scheme for defining the grammar of a raga is to precisely define which swaras the raga takes by defining which mela it belongs to.

3) I remember reading somewhere that Aro/Ava as an ornamentation or gamakam. Initially it was strange to call that one of the gamakams but upon further reflection that makes some sense. Instead of Aro/Ava as a structure to define the whole raga, it takes a back seat, but a prominent one at that, as one of the special usages where you strictly follow the increasing/decreasing frequency. But the raga itself is defined by the characteristic phrases. Somewhere somehow somebody took all the characteristic phrases and tried to fit into the Aro/Ava scheme. I think that part of it is an unnecessary exercise. If the characteristic phrases are strictly in the order of the Aro/Ava, so be it but making that as a predominant raga definition tool seems like an overkill to me.

4) And a side effect of this enforcement is the concept of vakra aro/ava. I do not understand why one needs to elevate some prayogas to the level of arohana/avarohana when there are several ragas that are not defined as vakra but whose characteristic phrases are very vakra'ish. I think this is unnecessary baggage as a side-result of elevating Aro/Ava order as something to be strictly followed.

5) The ancient books define ragas by the characteristic phrases, the starting swara, ending swara, the jiva swara, the nyasa swara, the gamakas etc. By starting with Aro/ava as the predominant grammar, these things which in the end are the only ones that really matter are given a lower significance. This is a role reversal of momumental proportions that has come to afflict the domentation of CM.
Here I mean it strictly in talking and writing about music and not the performance. Good performances are always about the right elements anyway. I personally would prefer a small change in the way the aro/ava is used while describing ragas. Instead of singing them continously, one should simply say, this raga "uses" these swaras and then sing the characteristic phrases. If it so happens that certain swaras are not used in ascending/descending phases of all the characteristic phrases, one can then say, 'The feature of this raga is that the characteristic phrases omit swara X while going up/down'. In fact, in some cases, one can say the varja'ness of certain swaras is characteristic of this raga, if that is not already obvious from the characteristic phrases.

6) Back to Smt. Purushottaman's point, I do not see why one should restrict aesthetically pleasing proyogas that are not in strict conformance with Aro/Ava in scales for whom there are no ancient raga counter parts. Why impose that strictness only for such scales?

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 16 Apr 2009, 13:27

Keerthi,

I came across a review in a tamil daily where the critic had written that the artist did ANULOMAM & PRATILOMAM and embellished the neraval.

What does this mean ? If you know kindly reply.

( Mod note: Please continue the Anuloma, Pratiloma discussion here; http://rasikas.org/forums/post67406.html#p67406 )

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 17 Apr 2009, 13:42

Thanks Moderators for your guidance