What is usi tALam?
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I came across it in this site dedicated to Sri PMI http://www.geocities.com/~maniiyer/impr ... NKARAN.htm. Can someone please explain? The only 'usi' I am aware of is the one in bharatanATyam (particularly, in the pandanallUr style) which refers to the start of movements before the tALa commences.
Last edited by rshankar on 08 Feb 2009, 21:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Dear sister-member, Vidya Raja, As you wrote this ‘usitala’ must be of only a colloquial usage. I have never come across such Tala at all. The ‘Visarjitam’ is also called as ‘Usi’ and its act is just waving the hand towards right without producing any sound at all. In the olden days even Kakapada has been prohibited being a Nisshabda-anga (soundless-anga) as a blind person cannot follow it being a soundless-anga. Even an Anga itself has been prohibited as it is soundless I do not know how this ‘usitala’ is justifiable. This kind of ambiguity, prevailing everywhere and in every walk of life in our country, pertains to the very high level of indiscipline and who ever talks against it will be branded as ‘revolutionist’. amsharma
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>This kind of ambiguity
I share that pain. Especially in the context that 'usi thala is becoming extinct' when its clear definition itself is in doubt. From what Vidya Raja says, it does not seem to be a thalam at all but a special name for fractional eduppus along the lines of madhyadi and desadi nomenclature. But then the mention of Visarjitam confuses the issue. May be the author of the article can clarify for us. The article is tagged as 'Sankaran' but I do not know if it is the well known mridangist Sankaran or someone else.
I share that pain. Especially in the context that 'usi thala is becoming extinct' when its clear definition itself is in doubt. From what Vidya Raja says, it does not seem to be a thalam at all but a special name for fractional eduppus along the lines of madhyadi and desadi nomenclature. But then the mention of Visarjitam confuses the issue. May be the author of the article can clarify for us. The article is tagged as 'Sankaran' but I do not know if it is the well known mridangist Sankaran or someone else.
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Dear brother-member, vasanthakokilam, Not only a mere painful but also it is very highly shameful to be in such a hapless and hopeless state being the earliest, wealthiest and most complex system of music in the world. While the westerners are able to standardize and symbolise many of the things of their music we are unable to do so in the disguise of so called ‘sampradaya’, disinterest and irresponsibility. While even the duration of ‘Maatra’ has long ago been standardized and defined even in our ‘Sangeeta Ratnakara, the Great’, all our Vidwans use it in so many ways and in all our modern books, in respect of the 1st element, Kaala-prana of the Taladashapranas, most unfortunately, a most ambiguous list of technical-terms like Kshana, Lava, Kaashta etc., etc., has been furnished which are meant only to get them by heart for the examinational purpose but not for any practical purpose at all. Everywhere and in every beings while the parents are always striving hard to earn and accumulate money or property or anything as much as they can to provide them easily to their descendants, in our music, our parents, the so called ‘Gurus’, are not doing so but exploiting them. amsharma
Last edited by msakella on 10 Feb 2009, 07:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Vidya Raja seems to be on the right track.
An "usi talam" is mentioned here. And an "usi mode of singing", here, which looks like it might be as Vidya Raja explained (as it is mentioned along with deshadi and madhyadi), and "mode of singing" also makes sense with what mohan said (although he was talking about a mode of playing the percussion instrument). The usi of bharatanatyam seems to me to be the same concept relating to eduppu.
"The song itself begins in usi, so the teermanams set by percussionist Karaikudi R. Mani began and ended in the samam and yedam of the composition".
If I'm not mistaken, some members of that forum are here. (Lakshman? I think it's in that forum that I requested Balamurali lyrics/notes long ago, which you sent me by email. It amazes me that you've been doing this for years!). Maybe that member "S" is here and can explain further.
But I also saw references to usi kriya elsewhere. Could be just a case of "name overloading".
An "usi talam" is mentioned here. And an "usi mode of singing", here, which looks like it might be as Vidya Raja explained (as it is mentioned along with deshadi and madhyadi), and "mode of singing" also makes sense with what mohan said (although he was talking about a mode of playing the percussion instrument). The usi of bharatanatyam seems to me to be the same concept relating to eduppu.
"The song itself begins in usi, so the teermanams set by percussionist Karaikudi R. Mani began and ended in the samam and yedam of the composition".
If I'm not mistaken, some members of that forum are here. (Lakshman? I think it's in that forum that I requested Balamurali lyrics/notes long ago, which you sent me by email. It amazes me that you've been doing this for years!). Maybe that member "S" is here and can explain further.
But I also saw references to usi kriya elsewhere. Could be just a case of "name overloading".
Last edited by Vinay on 13 May 2009, 02:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Thanks Vinay for those links. They sort of helped though it will be good if someone who knows the usage of 'Usi' in various contexts clarifies it for us. Also, is it usi or Usi? For now, let us go with the working understanding that it refers to 'fractional eduppu'. But 'fractional eduppu' is not same as syncopation, so there may be a nuanced interpretation to this word.
The forumhub discussion is interesting and you are right, the person 'S' seems to be quite knowledgeable. One thing that he says appeals to me quite a bit, namely, the desadi tala songs of Tyagaraja when kept to 2-kaLai chathusra Eka is not that strange an eduppu after all. There are other elaborate songs of T in 2K Adi which have that kind of an eduppu. But the interesting feature of the desadi thala songs is the laya consists of self-similar alternating stresses with a heavy emphasis on the 5th beat. I can see how that kind of a beat structure could have come from Bhajan traditions. In that sense, it seems to me that treating them as 2K Chathusra Eka is quite appropriate.
The forumhub discussion is interesting and you are right, the person 'S' seems to be quite knowledgeable. One thing that he says appeals to me quite a bit, namely, the desadi tala songs of Tyagaraja when kept to 2-kaLai chathusra Eka is not that strange an eduppu after all. There are other elaborate songs of T in 2K Adi which have that kind of an eduppu. But the interesting feature of the desadi thala songs is the laya consists of self-similar alternating stresses with a heavy emphasis on the 5th beat. I can see how that kind of a beat structure could have come from Bhajan traditions. In that sense, it seems to me that treating them as 2K Chathusra Eka is quite appropriate.
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USI is not a talam, its a nadai.
Actually speaking USI is a nadai which is common in Marati-Abhang, and its very famous in Bajanai Sambradayams.
Usi nadai follows the below Sketch, and It always sits on Adi talam you can be sure that it will come only aadi Talam or chatusra Ekam, "AS FAR AS I KNOW : I am not sure how this method can fit in other talams for Ex. rupakam or Misra chapu, since there is not enough scope".
The below Solkattu Explains a Simple USI Nadai and Talam should follow the same pattern..
2 4 (Two claps one with 2 karvai and another with 4)
2 2 4 (3 Claps 2 with 2 karvai and 1 with 4 karvai)
2 2 4 (3 Claps 2 with 2 karvai and 1 with 4 karvai)
4 3 3 (3 Claps 1 with 4 karvai and 2 with 3 karvai) --- Samam
6 + 8 + 8 + 10 = 32
Or the simple method is to play 8 Beats after 2 Mathrais from samam)
..
8
8
8
3 3
2 + 24 + 6 = 32
For reference pupose, Will try to play, record the same and upload it soon.
Actually speaking USI is a nadai which is common in Marati-Abhang, and its very famous in Bajanai Sambradayams.
Usi nadai follows the below Sketch, and It always sits on Adi talam you can be sure that it will come only aadi Talam or chatusra Ekam, "AS FAR AS I KNOW : I am not sure how this method can fit in other talams for Ex. rupakam or Misra chapu, since there is not enough scope".
The below Solkattu Explains a Simple USI Nadai and Talam should follow the same pattern..
2 4 (Two claps one with 2 karvai and another with 4)
2 2 4 (3 Claps 2 with 2 karvai and 1 with 4 karvai)
2 2 4 (3 Claps 2 with 2 karvai and 1 with 4 karvai)
4 3 3 (3 Claps 1 with 4 karvai and 2 with 3 karvai) --- Samam
6 + 8 + 8 + 10 = 32
Or the simple method is to play 8 Beats after 2 Mathrais from samam)
..
8
8
8
3 3
2 + 24 + 6 = 32
For reference pupose, Will try to play, record the same and upload it soon.
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More on USI......
Usi can be defined in two ways,
Desadi & Madhyamadhi
Lets take some Example: Giri Raja Sudha (Ragam : Suddha Bhangala, Talam : Desadi)
Keeping the Tala structure as :
2 2 4
gi ri raa
2 2 4
Ja Su Dha
2 2 4
Tha Na Ya
2 2 4
Sa Dha Ya
Dont worry about Ragam or Raga Swaroopam, Just spell the words with the above mentioned tala structure you will
be able to sing the the song in USI NADAI. Desadi is nothing but type of USI. In many of the Tyagaraja Kritis talam might be mentioned as Desadi, which are nothing BUT USI only.
Reason Behind this : Thygaraja might be having a tambura in one hand and Chippla-kattai in another hand (as far as the picture / movie / photos ). In my opinion he might have never put talam for a song and sang the same, considering his Bhakti towards the god. All he will do is Clap the kattai and start singing. I tried with a Chippla kattai in hand and tried counting the fingers for talam, i am not able to count the fingers, since the fingers are inside the Clamp. What else can i do, Just proceed with USI nadai.
Which means, Any song that stars after 6 mathrais (Adi talam) Can be sung in USI NADAI or also called as DESADI.
Example for Madhyamadhi :
Anything Starts in Samam of Talam can be sung in USI Format .
Keeping the Tala structure as : Telisi Rama (Ragam : Poorna chandrika, Talam : Madhyadi (aadi - samam) )
2 2 4
Te LiSi
2 2 4
Ra -- Mach
2 2 4
inTh Na Tho
2 2 4
Na --Ma
2
Mu
Other example : JagadhaNandaKaaraka
To keep it simple,
a. Anything that starts in Samam, can be sung in USI MODE, ensuring that the starting point be on the 2nd c l a p.
b. Anything that starts After 6 Mathrais, can be sung in USI MODE, ensuring that the starting point be on the 1st c l a p.
2 means, a clap with 2 Karvais.
4 Means, a Clap with 4 Karvais.
Assume that you have chippla kattai in hand and start practising you might feel the difference.
There are Different ways of playing for a USI.
1. Straight Forward 2,4,2 ( thin - Thathing - thin = 2 - 4 - 2)
2. Cross Beat ( Edir Nadai) 4,2,2 (thathing, Thin, thin = 4 - 2 - 2)
Improvisations can be done on top of this structure, if you are really comfortable with the USI nadai.
This kind of style is still on the move in Bhajani Sampradayams, Infact most of the songs are sung only in this mode.
I have listened to my sir's (mani sir) playing, that too different varieties/Sorkattus of USI nadai and he explained to me how he has handled the baghavathars and Upanyasakars ( Thanks for a 4 hour long drive ). Apart from that, two of my close friends Ganapthi and his brother Siva (B.ganapathyraman and B.Sivaraman) are too good in playing USI Nadai. These guys can rip anybody off if they are given a chance to play on USI MODE. Btw, I am not exaggerating here. Its a fact.
Regards
Sriram J. Iyer
Usi can be defined in two ways,
Desadi & Madhyamadhi
Lets take some Example: Giri Raja Sudha (Ragam : Suddha Bhangala, Talam : Desadi)
Keeping the Tala structure as :
2 2 4
gi ri raa
2 2 4
Ja Su Dha
2 2 4
Tha Na Ya
2 2 4
Sa Dha Ya
Dont worry about Ragam or Raga Swaroopam, Just spell the words with the above mentioned tala structure you will
be able to sing the the song in USI NADAI. Desadi is nothing but type of USI. In many of the Tyagaraja Kritis talam might be mentioned as Desadi, which are nothing BUT USI only.
Reason Behind this : Thygaraja might be having a tambura in one hand and Chippla-kattai in another hand (as far as the picture / movie / photos ). In my opinion he might have never put talam for a song and sang the same, considering his Bhakti towards the god. All he will do is Clap the kattai and start singing. I tried with a Chippla kattai in hand and tried counting the fingers for talam, i am not able to count the fingers, since the fingers are inside the Clamp. What else can i do, Just proceed with USI nadai.
Which means, Any song that stars after 6 mathrais (Adi talam) Can be sung in USI NADAI or also called as DESADI.
Example for Madhyamadhi :
Anything Starts in Samam of Talam can be sung in USI Format .
Keeping the Tala structure as : Telisi Rama (Ragam : Poorna chandrika, Talam : Madhyadi (aadi - samam) )
2 2 4
Te LiSi
2 2 4
Ra -- Mach
2 2 4
inTh Na Tho
2 2 4
Na --Ma
2
Mu
Other example : JagadhaNandaKaaraka
To keep it simple,
a. Anything that starts in Samam, can be sung in USI MODE, ensuring that the starting point be on the 2nd c l a p.
b. Anything that starts After 6 Mathrais, can be sung in USI MODE, ensuring that the starting point be on the 1st c l a p.
2 means, a clap with 2 Karvais.
4 Means, a Clap with 4 Karvais.
Assume that you have chippla kattai in hand and start practising you might feel the difference.
There are Different ways of playing for a USI.
1. Straight Forward 2,4,2 ( thin - Thathing - thin = 2 - 4 - 2)
2. Cross Beat ( Edir Nadai) 4,2,2 (thathing, Thin, thin = 4 - 2 - 2)
Improvisations can be done on top of this structure, if you are really comfortable with the USI nadai.
This kind of style is still on the move in Bhajani Sampradayams, Infact most of the songs are sung only in this mode.
I have listened to my sir's (mani sir) playing, that too different varieties/Sorkattus of USI nadai and he explained to me how he has handled the baghavathars and Upanyasakars ( Thanks for a 4 hour long drive ). Apart from that, two of my close friends Ganapthi and his brother Siva (B.ganapathyraman and B.Sivaraman) are too good in playing USI Nadai. These guys can rip anybody off if they are given a chance to play on USI MODE. Btw, I am not exaggerating here. Its a fact.
Regards
Sriram J. Iyer
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Sriram: Thanks for the write up on this topic. I like such simplied picture of the built-in laya of the songs thus removing the artificial complexity that naturally results when it is overlaid on an external representation like Adi.
I understand the two types you refer to within the simple 2-2-4 structure ( spanning 2 beats of the regular Adi thala ), namely one starts on the first clap and the other one starts on the second clap. So essentially, it is 2-2-4 or 2-4-2 . I think I understand that part and I like the simplicity and symmetry with such a characterization.
I am trying to understand fully and clearly the rest of what you wrote, so please bear with me as I run through some of my questions.
1) Prior to this, my understanding was ( as discussed in this forum elsewhere ): Within the Adi tala, Desadi songs are those that start after 6 mathras from samam. You say the same thing for Desadi. But I did not even realize that Giriraja suta is sung with 6 mathrais from the samam. I tried laying other desadhi thala songs 'Bantureethi' and 'Manavyala' in that 2-2-4 format and that seems to fit. I want to make sure you would concur that those two songs and the other numerous desadi songs would fit that 2-2-4 format.
2) I am confused about what you say about madyadi. I was under the impression that madyadi meanas that the songs starts 2 mathrais after the samam. You say that this term is applied, in the usi context, for Adi songs that start on samam. Are these two different usages of the word madhyadi or it is still the same but represented differently?
3) While discussing kOravi, Sri. Balaji mentioned about 'Asu' to mean patterns of playing that came to us from Thyagaraja's times. I am just wildly speculating/wondering if that 'Asu' and this 'Usi' have some relationship to each other.
I understand the two types you refer to within the simple 2-2-4 structure ( spanning 2 beats of the regular Adi thala ), namely one starts on the first clap and the other one starts on the second clap. So essentially, it is 2-2-4 or 2-4-2 . I think I understand that part and I like the simplicity and symmetry with such a characterization.
I am trying to understand fully and clearly the rest of what you wrote, so please bear with me as I run through some of my questions.
1) Prior to this, my understanding was ( as discussed in this forum elsewhere ): Within the Adi tala, Desadi songs are those that start after 6 mathras from samam. You say the same thing for Desadi. But I did not even realize that Giriraja suta is sung with 6 mathrais from the samam. I tried laying other desadhi thala songs 'Bantureethi' and 'Manavyala' in that 2-2-4 format and that seems to fit. I want to make sure you would concur that those two songs and the other numerous desadi songs would fit that 2-2-4 format.
2) I am confused about what you say about madyadi. I was under the impression that madyadi meanas that the songs starts 2 mathrais after the samam. You say that this term is applied, in the usi context, for Adi songs that start on samam. Are these two different usages of the word madhyadi or it is still the same but represented differently?
3) While discussing kOravi, Sri. Balaji mentioned about 'Asu' to mean patterns of playing that came to us from Thyagaraja's times. I am just wildly speculating/wondering if that 'Asu' and this 'Usi' have some relationship to each other.
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In fact ‘Visarjita’ is the Sanskrit term of the ‘Deshya-kriyashtakas’ i.e., 8 acts of Deshya-kriyas pertaining to ‘Kriya-prana’ among the Tala-dasha-pranas and the ‘Usi’ is ‘Apa-bhramsha-roopa’ i.e., ‘disturbed-spelling’ of this ‘Visarjita’. This is one kind of act of rendering a particular ‘Kriya’ only but never the name of a Tala at all.
Most unfortunately, in the guise of tradition, in our country, some people are used to claim themselves some great thing or other in their name to get fame for which we can’t help. It has become a birth-right in many cases in which way every Tom and Dick wants to write or create a book or to write or create a composition or to write or create a Tala in his own name or to write or create a Raga etc., etc.
For example, even prior to Sharngadeva of 13th century there was a set of 108 Talas. But while writing his book Sangita Ratnakara, in claiming his greatness in creating Talas, he brought out another set of 120 Talas among which the last two talas are created in his own title and name, Nihshanka-tala and Sharngadeva-tala. Apart from this, even to prove himself an adapt in Talaprastara also, he copied the Prastara-portion of Tala from some other treatise and included it in his book. In doing so, he had not only furnished many contradictory versions in his book in respect of the latent secrets of Nashta and Uddishta but also unnecessarily modified two tables, Druta-meru and Samyoga-meru by which I had to waste many precious years of my life to find the original truth of them. I have brought out all these details in my book, Talaprastara of Nisshanka Sharngadeva’s Sangita Ratnakara - with a critical interpretation. While the author Sharngadeva himself made a mess of it in this respect of Talaprastara not only the editor Pandit Subrahmanya Shastry but also his daughter Smt. S.Sharada added fuel to the fire by still more worsening their contradictory versions in this respect.
Even later, another author Bhandaru Lakshminarayana brought out ‘Sangita Sooryodaya’ not only with another set of Talas through which he brought out another Tala in his name, Lakshmanahvaya but also another highly defective mode of permutation, Virama-prastara making another mess of it. But he also claimed that he was honoured with Gajaarohanam and Kanakabhishekam by his King. In the absence of the knowledge of Talaprastara, just like all others, the then King also took him a great person and honoured him in that manner. When I brought out many of his contradictory versions to the editor of this book, Shri Kamata Prasad Tripaathi of Indira Kala Sangita Vishwavidyalaya, most surprisingly, there was no response at all.
In this manner, at any time, things move on and on on their own course in respect of such knowledgeable persons and our ‘Usi-tala’ is one among such things. amsharma
Most unfortunately, in the guise of tradition, in our country, some people are used to claim themselves some great thing or other in their name to get fame for which we can’t help. It has become a birth-right in many cases in which way every Tom and Dick wants to write or create a book or to write or create a composition or to write or create a Tala in his own name or to write or create a Raga etc., etc.
For example, even prior to Sharngadeva of 13th century there was a set of 108 Talas. But while writing his book Sangita Ratnakara, in claiming his greatness in creating Talas, he brought out another set of 120 Talas among which the last two talas are created in his own title and name, Nihshanka-tala and Sharngadeva-tala. Apart from this, even to prove himself an adapt in Talaprastara also, he copied the Prastara-portion of Tala from some other treatise and included it in his book. In doing so, he had not only furnished many contradictory versions in his book in respect of the latent secrets of Nashta and Uddishta but also unnecessarily modified two tables, Druta-meru and Samyoga-meru by which I had to waste many precious years of my life to find the original truth of them. I have brought out all these details in my book, Talaprastara of Nisshanka Sharngadeva’s Sangita Ratnakara - with a critical interpretation. While the author Sharngadeva himself made a mess of it in this respect of Talaprastara not only the editor Pandit Subrahmanya Shastry but also his daughter Smt. S.Sharada added fuel to the fire by still more worsening their contradictory versions in this respect.
Even later, another author Bhandaru Lakshminarayana brought out ‘Sangita Sooryodaya’ not only with another set of Talas through which he brought out another Tala in his name, Lakshmanahvaya but also another highly defective mode of permutation, Virama-prastara making another mess of it. But he also claimed that he was honoured with Gajaarohanam and Kanakabhishekam by his King. In the absence of the knowledge of Talaprastara, just like all others, the then King also took him a great person and honoured him in that manner. When I brought out many of his contradictory versions to the editor of this book, Shri Kamata Prasad Tripaathi of Indira Kala Sangita Vishwavidyalaya, most surprisingly, there was no response at all.
In this manner, at any time, things move on and on on their own course in respect of such knowledgeable persons and our ‘Usi-tala’ is one among such things. amsharma
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Yes it does fit for all the Songs that starts in mukkal edam (6 mathrais after samam).vasanthakokilam wrote:
1) Prior to this, my understanding was ( as discussed in this forum elsewhere ): Within the Adi tala, Desadi songs are those that start after 6 mathras from samam. You say the same thing for Desadi. But I did not even realize that Giriraja suta is sung with 6 mathrais from the samam. I tried laying other desadhi thala songs 'Bantureethi' and 'Manavyala' in that 2-2-4 format and that seems to fit. I want to make sure you would concur that those two songs and the other numerous desadi songs would fit that 2-2-4 format.
Samam means it can be any samam, Sundu veral samam, or Arai edam (Rendu kalai) or Arai Samam. In Simple words, songs that starts on any "thattu" or on any Clap (but not on fraction).vasanthakokilam wrote: 2) I am confused about what you say about madyadi. I was under the impression that madyadi meanas that the songs starts 2 mathrais after the samam. You say that this term is applied, in the usi context, for Adi songs that start on samam. Are these two different usages of the word madhyadi or it is still the same but represented differently?
I am Not sure.vasanthakokilam wrote: 3) While discussing kOravi, Sri. Balaji mentioned about 'Asu' to mean patterns of playing that came to us from Thyagaraja's times. I am just wildly speculating/wondering if that 'Asu' and this 'Usi' have some relationship to each other.
Last edited by ajsriram on 14 Jun 2009, 12:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Sriram: Thanks for clarifications.
I tried to align 'endaveduko o raghava' on the 2-2-4 scheme of usi but it does not work as neatly as your giri raja sudha example. It seems to line up ok if I split it as '(enda vedu ko....), ( O raga va... ) but that is only two grouping instead of 4 in your example. If I tried to split into 4 groups of 2-2-4, the words and stress patterns do not line up. Can you help please?
There is still one terminology confusion. As discussed in this forum elsewhere, madhyadi usually refers to a specific form of fractional eduppu, 2 mathrais after the first beat. And you are using it to refer to any-finger samam eduppu songs. Is this a difference in terminology?
( In any case, it does not matter for the 'usi' discussion given your clarification above but just want to keep the terminology in order )
I tried to align 'endaveduko o raghava' on the 2-2-4 scheme of usi but it does not work as neatly as your giri raja sudha example. It seems to line up ok if I split it as '(enda vedu ko....), ( O raga va... ) but that is only two grouping instead of 4 in your example. If I tried to split into 4 groups of 2-2-4, the words and stress patterns do not line up. Can you help please?
I understand what you are saying about 'samam with respect to any beat' and I also understand what you mean by Arai Edam on Rendu kaLai. I like that generalization since that is how I intuitively understand layam anyway.Samam means it can be any samam, Sundu veral samam, or Arai edam (Rendu kalai) or Arai Samam. In Simple words, songs that starts on any "thattu" or on any Clap (but not on fraction).
There is still one terminology confusion. As discussed in this forum elsewhere, madhyadi usually refers to a specific form of fractional eduppu, 2 mathrais after the first beat. And you are using it to refer to any-finger samam eduppu songs. Is this a difference in terminology?
( In any case, it does not matter for the 'usi' discussion given your clarification above but just want to keep the terminology in order )
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Entha vedu ko (Ragam : Saraswathimanohari, Talam : Desadi)vasanthakokilam wrote: I tried to align 'endaveduko o raghava' on the 2-2-4 scheme of usi but it does not work as neatly as your giri raja sudha example. It seems to line up ok if I split it as '(enda vedu ko....), ( O raga va... ) but that is only two grouping instead of 4 in your example. If I tried to split into 4 groups of 2-2-4, the words and stress patterns do not line up. Can you help please?
Keeping the Tala structure as :
2 2 4
en tha ve
2 2 4
du ko ....
2 2 4
O .. ra
2 2 4
Ga Va ....
I think this is the way it should be grouped.
Regarding Madhyadhi its refers to Arai Edam only. All songs that starts with samam (any place) will also be will in sync with Madhyadhi ( 2-2-4 pattern, where the starting place will be on the 2nd clap).
Regards