Sangita Kalanidhi 2019

[ratanabhinav]

S Sowmya is just another garden variety pudavai artist .

And you are the distinguished kOmaNam rasika?

Who knows , he listens in his home and does not attend that many live performances.

Mr shankarank , what are you trying to suggest ? This is beyond all limits. I might have to report you and Mr sureshvv if you don't clarify .

[ratanabhinav]

Rasikasmoderator , please come in. I see some gross violations here.

[shankarank]

My friend, what is left unsaid cannot be used against someone to make a case. . We were treating you with respect and countering your arguments respectfully, until you seem to have crossed the line. Even now, things are left unsaid and you can read/unread as you wish.

All the power to moderators to do what they deem fit!

[nadhasudha]

I am glad you brought up the 'the garden variety puDavai artiste' expression It irked me no end, and I am sure many women , and hopefully men too felt offended by it.

It irked me too that all of the artiste's contributions were being reduced to a reference to her attire and indirectly to her gender. This always happens with women artists. I chose to ignore and did not want to dignify the comment with a response.

[sureshvv]

This expression (and similar ones ) have been used many a times by members in this forum .

No justification! Not that far away from my characterization which you think crosses "limits".

[shankarank]

It irked me too that all of the artiste's contributions were being reduced...

Some men were no exceptions too. We know from prior SK threads and lots of commentary else where . Ra-Ga sisters were commented on in the worst way in sangeetham.com very early in their career for their stage mannerisms.

[arasi]

Do-Re-Mi a la Maria--
Let's start from the very beginning
A very good place to start

Heard the good news,
SK for Smt. Sawmya!
Well deserved! Happy are we!
Congratulations from a whole bunch of rasikas…:)

[RSR]

@152-> I suppose , if SK award is shared ,by two or even more persons,(preferably, ' by gents and ladies',' currently performing artistes and greats of the past', its value is not diminished. in any way. Granted, Nobel prize is shared by scientists for their work in related fields , mostly, independently. ( (ex)Chandrasekar), . That and posthumous awards, ( and awards to Instrumentalists) , will be fair . and would obviate acrimonious debates every year , on the academy, awards and recipients. ....Neither does non-award, diminish the glory of deserving. ( 1919-20, is the centenary year of N.C.Vasanthakokilam. Does she not deserve SK award? ) or perhaps, MA can have a separate category of posthumous awards , individually or shared) . CM is a unified field and includes percussion instrumentalists too. More recognition needed for Nagaswaram artistes too?

[Ranganayaki]

@143-> I would have used 'garden-variety dhothy-clad' artiste. More decent phrase which suits a learned forum.

Yes, if the aim is to make no point while being insipid.

[Ranganayaki]

annual dishonoring of worthy musicians.

So well said.

[Ranganayaki]

And you are the distinguished kOmaNam rasika?

Who knows , he listens in his home and does not attend that many live performances.

Mr shankarank , what are you trying to suggest ? This is beyond all limits. I might have to report you and Mr sureshvv if you don't clarify .

Ratanabhinav,

It might be hard but do try to take it easy. It’s just a funnily apt and timely dig at you using your own words in the context that developed. Nobody thinks it’s true, not even Shankarank. See the smiley? And The original retort was meant to be as provocative as you were.

It’s not a nice remark to discredit her as just a woman, which is how your words were received by most of us. Why would you choose to use that particular epithet to describe her as an artist?

[Ranganayaki]

Rasikasmoderator , please come in. I see some gross violations here.

I suppose it hasn't quite penetrated your thick skull that you're the perpetrator here, with that disgusting "pudavai" comment. You deserve every bit of ridicule and perhaps a kick in the rear end from the moderator!

Uncalled for, let’s be civil.

[RSR]

@143-> I would have used 'garden-variety dhothy-clad' artiste. More decent phrase which suits a learned forum.

Yes, if the aim is to make no point while being insipid.

'pudavai ( sari-clad)...All our senior lady-artistes are sari-clad.
After-all , the poster did not say, 'bikini-clad'.
does any male-musician appear in public with mere koupeenam ? Referring to inner garment , in a serious forum, is definitely, in bad taste.
-----------------

[ratanabhinav]

Pudavai artiste is an expression that means an artiste who wears exuberant sarees and is very popular .
It is a respectable expression that means that an artiste dresses exuberantly . It is in no way derogatory. It's male equivalent is ' panchakacham - vaira kadukkan ' artist. There were many male artists in the past who would come dressed in luxurious kurtas , panchakachams and vaira kadukkans , but whose music was mediocre . Is this in any way derogatory ?
Respected @rupavathi has crossed all her/his limits .
Now you tell me :-
Saree : Kurta panchakacham.
Mr sureshvv should have pointed at me with the phrase ' the kurta panchakacham rasika '. Him calling me what he had called me is similar to responses given by std 1 kids.

[rupavathi]

"kuppura vizhundhAlum meesaiyil man ottavillai"

Tamil: குப்புர விழுந்தாலும் மீசையில் மண் ஒட்டவில்லை.
Literal: I fell flat on my face, but there is no dust on my mustache.
Meaning: Saving face after an insult.

[ratanabhinav]

1. 'Pudavai artiste' is a term to denote artistes who wear exuberant saris. It is used to mean that the artiste is popular. Sudha , BJ , Sowmya , Ra-Ga sisters are all pudavai artistes .
My comment was taken out of context.
2. Rasikas org is a forum of connoisseurs and critics. The '3-4 sourpusses who react negatively ' remark isn't resonating this .
Have we rasikas.org ceased being critics ? Why is there so much sycophancy here ? I haven't spotted a single negative review in the past few (5-6) months.

[rbharath]

We have spoken enough here.

I am feeling sad that people are failing to recognize that all the noise made here, to change the system called Music Academy and its methods, is just going to add to digital junk. No member or office bearer of Academy sees a reason to change. Simply since they have a system and they find it good and have an established practice. They do make changes with time. But, the changes are only within their circle.

For example, the practice of awarding siblings/co-performers together. Till Sikkil sisters, this was unheard of. Even for thiruvizhimazhalai brothers and Karaikudi brothers, only one of them got decorated. Alathurs were honored individually, thanks to the insistence of Subbu Iyer that he will accept to preside over the conference, iff Seenu Iyer would get his turn next year. Muktha had to settle down with Acharya, a good 20 years after her elder sister got Kalanidhi.

Senior dancers and dance gurus had to only accept a 'Sangeetha Kala Acharya' and that also needed some musical proficiency. Now, either Natya Kala Acharya or Nrithya Kalanidhi is awarded every year, in recognition for dance.

For Music academy, the whole concept of awarding an individual is not just a recognition. It comes with duty and work. Sangeetha Kalanidhi is expected to preside over the conference, mediate the morning sessions. The music learners and students of music, look for these sessions as they are going to give them a lot of information and helps them learn more. Sangeetha Kalanidhi and Sangeetha Kala Acharya awardees are part of the expert committee which decides on the programs to be organised, they have a say in the music school that Academy runs. The committee also decides on future awardees.

And one personally has reservations regarding posthumous awards. They mean nothing to the person who is awarded, in my opinion.

What if two people are awarded together? The academy probably wants to avoid confrontations between the two presiding officers, which is very much possible, if the two people are not going to agree. This would mean, they have to find two or three or as many prospective-kalanidhis are going to prescribed here, who would all have same opinions and thoughts and all. Just next to the moon, to ask for.

We have had enough stories and scandals and controversies with Academy and its awards, right from 1929, when it was started. And thats true of every sabha. Just that academy's story is out in public.


Year after year, we start this discussion as a guessing game on who gets awarded and then it turns ugly with all kinds of comments getting added. Wish each one keeps their dignity.




All that said. I wish we close this year's discussion here.

The vidwans chosen are indeed much deserving and they need to be congratulated. The organisation also needs to be commended for their choices.

[thanjavooran]

Though I wanted Guruvayur and VVS this time, OK let them wait.
Let us wish the awardees now. No more comments about their merits.
Thanjavooran
24 07 2019

This was my contention.
Shri RBharath ,
well said. Let us not further precipitate the issue.
Congrats and Best wishes to the Awardees.
Thanjavooran
01 08 2019

[ram1999]

Batting for and against an awardee and the selection process of Music Academy is a futile and nonsensical discussion. MA or any other Sabha or any artists or the committee members are interested in what is being discussed in this forum or do they take any suggestions from here.

This forum is just to discuss music by the listeners and nothing more / nothing less.

If members are to assume or expect that suggestions will be taken from here and implemented, common guys ....

[RSR]

..................( some portions left out for brevity..RSR)
For example, the practice of awarding siblings/co-performers together. Till Sikkil sisters, this was unheard of. Even for thiruvizhimazhalai brothers and Karaikudi brothers, only one of them got decorated. Alathurs were honored individually, thanks to the insistence of Subbu Iyer that he will accept to preside over the conference, iff Seenu Iyer would get his turn next year. Muktha had to settle down with Acharya, a good 20 years after her elder sister got Kalanidhi.
.......
And one personally has reservations regarding posthumous awards. They mean nothing to the person who is awarded, in my opinion...........
------
We have had enough stories and scandals and controversies with Academy and its awards, right from 1929, when it was started. And thats true of every sabha. Just that academy's story is out in public.
Year after year, we start this discussion as a guessing game on who gets awarded and then it turns ugly with all kinds of comments getting added. Wish each one keeps their dignity.
.......
All that said. I wish we close this year's discussion here.

Wonderfully spoken, Sir. This is the way to discuss things.

[arasi]

Bravo, Bharath! Young, but mature, knowledgeable not only in music but also about organizations which bring us music. Sensitive, level-headed. Not an oldie or even nearly that. Just the right young music lover who knows what he is talking about. You were one of the very first rasikAs I met years ago, and hats off to you--you have been steadfast in your ardor for music and its well being and it shows in this well-meaning, positive post. Thanks!
Thanks to Thanjavooran among the elders, and Ranganayaki among the younger ones for her sensitive post.
Let's focus on the temple (music) and not on the distracting, crippling elements we find in and out of its precincts. Peace!

[Ranganayaki]

Pudavai artiste is an expression that means an artiste who wears exuberant sarees and is very popular .
It is a respectable expression that means that an artiste dresses exuberantly . It is in no way derogatory. It's male equivalent is ' panchakacham - vaira kadukkan ' artist. There were many male artists in the past who would come dressed in luxurious kurtas , panchakachams and vaira kadukkans , but whose music was mediocre . Is this in any way derogatory ?

Your point is taken, you probably didn’t mean it the way many of us understood it, but your meaning was lost in today's context of women being tired of being belittled.

I would never speak to you in the way sureshvv did, but if someone wanted to make a one-line jab, as a retort, it would have to be something that jolts you into your senses. But I do feel that you have a right to your opinion that the singers you mention are dressed way better than they sing. You didn’t deserve the retort, my apologies for supporting that. But you were probably misunderstood by everyone who shared in that, though I don’t mean to speak for them, just guessing.

I don’t agree with the way Rupavathi spoke to you, you deserve an apology. I flagged that post before I responded to her earlier.

[arasi]

If folks feel apologetic, they certainly can send each other mail personally through the forum. Meanwhile, a celebration and a feud cannot continue under the same roof. This is a thread which is meant for the former of the two purposes. Let it remain that way as it continues in the future. Moderators don't have to laboriously delete posts, deal with more nonsense. .
Surely, we all do know what a celebration is all about. Mangalam, jaya mangalam. The chosen one richly deserves the congratulations of happy rasikAs....

[Ranganayaki]

Are you referring to my post, Arasi? I don’t think my post is out of place here, there is no rule that says I should respond to Ratanabhinav privately. The accusations were in front of all, and I think his explanation is likely true. It makes sense. I’m not feeling apologetic, just conciliatory. Moderators should deal with that very uncivil , ugly and mean post by Rupavathi. I said so even though I disagreed with Ratanabhinav.

[Ranganayaki]

If folks feel apologetic, they certainly can send each other mail personally through the forum.

...The chosen one richly deserves the congratulations of happy rasikAs....

Why “folks?” You could have said my name! Now it feels snide, and I don’t see why it should, Arasi! In fact this response to me would have been much nicer as a private message!

I agree that all these SK threads are tiresome.

[arasi]

Let's get busy with making this place festive, and in keeping it that way, please.

Ranganayaki,
Please see your personal mail to be further assured-- that I just meant folks when I said folks.

[RSR]

@175-> Ranganayaki-> I feel proud of you, Madam ,for that post at 175. . I wanted your post at 175 , to be the last one in that thread, Otherwise, I would have added this at 176.
Criticism should be even. ./purdah',under-garment remarks should be removed.
General discussion section can be stopped . with no further posts. Let people post in other educative sections like Ragam, Layam, Reviews, Composers, musicians, and such.

[pattamaa]

finally all well. "sowmya"mana mangalakaramana ending

nI nAma rUpamulaku nitya jaya mangaLam

[ratanabhinav]

I would like to thank Ranganayaki madam for bringing forth the civil limits of this forum .
I would like to stress upon two things here :-
Not everyone would be okay with the choice of SK/any award , and that is okay . Stifling of voices of dissent/criticism has become the new fad today. Civility must be maintained whilst addressing other members . I feel that this is a forum of civilised and dignified rasikas. If at all anyone had found something offensive in my remark , they should have asked me for a clarification . Abusing and heckling me straight on is them resorting to what they're verily against !

How many rasikas do you know ? How many rasika families have you visited ? What do people know about the dining table discussions that are going on right now in families where rasikas aren't happy with the SK selection and how many mamas and mamis are using my phrasing ?

Congratulations to the awardee this year ! May her music grow and shine bright and give us all naada inbam.

[ratanabhinav]

RAjIva nayana tyAgarAjAdi vinutamaina
nI nAma rUpamulaku nitya jaya mangalam .

स्वस्ति प्रजाभ्यः परिपालयन्तां, न्याय्येन मार्गेण महीं महीशाः ।
गोब्राह्मणेभ्यः शुभमस्तु नित्यं, लोकाः समस्ताः सुखिनो भवन्तु॥

[RasikasModerator2]

First of all congratulations to Smt Sowmya for the Sangeetha Kalanidhi and all the other awardees. Another feather in the Brinda Mukta school as well as Dr. S Ramanathan's. It looks like this year's SK was a bit of a surprise for everyone considering the earlier guesses in this thread.

Of course, some may agree and some may not agree and have their own opinions, that is fine, but it is important to voice them without degrading into cheap name calling and personal attacks and insults- whether it is of artistes or each other. Or the tit for tat thing. Please.

We know that worse stuff is said over the dinner table over these topics, not to mention the kind of rage we've been seeing at artistes on social media. So this is far from those extremes, we were even slightly amused at the bickering, but once something is in writing it takes on a different level of seriousness.

Ultimately we see again and again that most of our minds have been made up a long time ago and that won't change any time soon - so what's the point fighting over it? I assume all of you are old enough not to act like kids.

Handling disagreements well is also an art and that is really where we've put our foot in our mouth often even at the cost of our dignity. Of course when a musician is awarded some people will accept and some may not, but how the disagreenents are handled is everything.

Stuff like this isn't new. Back when Sanjay was awarded the SK, we had actual palpable anger on full display alongside the congratulatory posts. But the world of CM goes on as ever, and the only outcome of fighting on the forum is soured relations amongst us.

So now that you all appear to have patched up, there doesn't seem to be anything else fruitful coming out of this. So let's close this thread and see what you all will do when the SK is announced next year.

[rupavathi]

Civility must be maintained whilst addressing other members . I feel that this is a forum of civilised and dignified rasikas. If at all anyone had found something offensive in my remark , they should have asked for a clarification . Abusing and heckling me straight on is them resorting to what they're verily against !

Aha... Now you're trying to gain the moral high ground, eh? You were the one who dragged this this thread into the mud on the day of the SK announcement with odious attire references and also questioning the vidwat and achievements of the awardee. When you were called out, you resorted to a lame explanation... And conveniently found one supporter! Sorry, your arguments and defense simply don't wash. As I said in a previous post, it's fine for you to not agree with the academy's decision, but simply not right to name-call others or drag the awardee's accomplishments thru the mud.

[RasikasModerator2]

@rupavathi @ratanabhinav and all others, that's enough for this time. Try again next year.

Locked.