hnbhagavan wrote:
It has been mentioned (mentioned in INCURABLE ROMANTIC) that Neelambari raga was not suitable for varnam compositions.This was attempted by Sri LGJ and successfully adopted in the concerts.I heard a few violin duet concerts of LGJ-GJR in which the opening Varnam was in Neelambari.I do not get to hear it these days.
Dear HNB,
In addition to what is in "INCURABLE ROMANTIC" I can say I was present when Mrs.Sujatha Vijayaraghavan& LGJ discussed NILAMBARI IN DETAIL; Wish I had recorded it. It was scintillating & THE unique TWISTS LGJ gave to his compositions in Jaya Jaya Devi to ACCOMODATE the dancers was simply put THE WORK OF A GENIUS. She gave a lecture about this in a few places.I will have to look for it. S.Ramanathan also has described in his lecture on Thyagaraja how the bard TRANSFORMED Neelambari which was considered PEDESTRIAN into one of beauty&depth......VKV
SrinathK wrote: : our art form still has more dimensions to explore (Varnams IMHO certainly do)
MMI CERTAINLY DID! IN THE mohanam & bhairavi varnams he used to EXPLORE SWARA PATTERNS, STHANAMS etc after rendering the exact varnam in great detail; He found NEW PATTERNS effortlessly & they SOUND very invigorating & some SENIOR VIDWANS whom I QUESTIONED why they dare not don't do this said THAT they simply cannot do this as MMI had an innate God given gift; Actually Devakkottai Narayana Iyengar (as quoted by Ravi Kiran) has said: Even if Sun sets in the East & rises in the West Madurai Mani's Sruti & Swarasthana Suddham will never falter. To this I add Sarvalaghu Suddham myself. They usually used to gauge their voice capabilities & control they said for that PARTICULAR Concert. M.S. could have done it but she was not willing to experiment along these lines...... VKV
Srinath K: My views about TMK might have been. About the format and his claim to innovation-less innovations no. The para you highlight is to place in perspective why strong views are justified. Generally, I feel there is no place for strong views as no one can claim complete and imperfectible knowledge.
I agree with ur views on the stage manners of Sri TMK.I do not know whether you were present at Bangalore Gayana Samaja a couple of years back.There was a problem with the mike.Suddenly Sri TMK lost patience and threw the mike down.Later he settled down to complete the concert without mike.The hall was full about 700 people including balcony with several senior citizens.
He continued to sing without mike even after replacement/rectification.Many seniors requested him to use mike as he was not at all audible and this was not a chamber concert.
In the history of Indian Classical Music, Karnataka Music in particular-there is no revolution but evolution. Revolution originating in revolt,seeking complete rejection of the existing to completely new, has not been attempted. Artists with years of practice, gaining insights and perceiving the beauty and getting higher sense of fulfillment, resolve to stay firmly with the internalized values, values of classicism and aesthetic. Achieve uncommon higher states of sensitivity. With sensitivity,their yearning for outreach to the potentialities and possibilities in imagination and creativity or re creativity resulting in pleasure arising out of pristine and pure qualities. In such state, urge as a performer is to partake such pleasure with the rasikas. They do revolt in a mild or strong manner for the habituated and cultivated qualities in their music, music they offer as popular performers with appeal and following. They resolve, not revolt, to consciously to refrain from creating music qualities which results in commanding the appreciation and momentary pleasures. Instead partake qualities in music which give very deeply felt and cherished, with respect and reverence of centrality of Karnataka Music as a great art form.
Tradition in Classical Music is excellence as a art form, uplifting. Sampradaya is the wealth of theory and practices giving ever lasting pleasure created and handed down to the worthy in trust for its safe keep and its qualitative increase or enhancement for one's own pleasure and for partaking the pleasure. Artists with greater vision, strive relentlessly for this achievement with firm resolution and resolve.
Higher intelligence in the content of music does not guarantee higher intelligence in the conduct of living. Any intellectual with the urge for communication about the state of his sense of mind and state of the art and its relationship, individually and collectively, provokes thoughts and urges for fresh thinking and understanding resulting in desired actions. With discourse on one's own thoughts and its resultant actions seeking changes for the perceived inferior or misplaced values and actions, artist is at rest. In its absence, restlessness is created in artist as well as music fraternity. Monologue without the dialogue, confusion results. Confusion results in suspicion. Suspicion results in doubts. Doubts results in conflict. Conflict results in violence-oral (mostly), very rarely, physical-expressions or communication. Violence results in rejection and dejection. Rejection or dejection results in lack of clarity and understanding. With out understanding, the relationship suffers. With relationship in sufferance, qualitative analysis and evaluation also suffers. The true qualities in artists and his works are missed out, to the detriment of the very art itself.
I seek dialogue and discourse with the intellectual artist and establishment of perfect understanding and appreciation in the best and long term interests of the art and its practices.
varsha wrote:On a rail journey while returning home , the subject of the essential difference between CM and HM cropped up . Dad explained how CM was a bit like the rail journey . It had a bradshaw of its own , the varieties of stations that came enroute , small , medium , big . The sense of comfort in running over two parallel rails .And so on .
And what about HM ? We kids piped in . He took one look around . The train had stopped , waiting for the signal from our local station . We were five kms away .
He hopped down suddenly , onto the field . We scrambled too .
And taking one look at the direction where our home lay we started to cross the field . Unsure of each step.But knowing our destination .
This is a bit like HM he explained . And that story has stayed with me .
With that kind of approach, who cares to keep travelling? Just get down in any wayside station and wade through the wilderness in the company of nature, with no destination to reach.
VKRaman Sir
Real problem is lack of clarity and understanding. History of Karnataka Music establishes clearly the facts. All innovations with values of rasaanubhuti or aesthetic, time tested, offering naadanubhuti achieve state of excellence. Achieving state of excellence, offering recall pleasure of the original creativity in re creativity become the Tradition. Also great maestros with great lakshya and lakshana knowledge, saadhana and performance experience ideate and imagine and create ornamentation, in line with the original creator or composer's great composition, in impersonal way with desire for rasothpathi or aesthetic enhancement. With patantara sudhatvam and systems and practices of the great maestro such innovation become the bani.
Great Maestros and Maestros innovation in the method and manner of delivery with personal stamp of class or popular appeal, become the style with the identity of the Great Maestros and Maestros. The Sampradaya, Bani and Style establishes the evolution in Karnataka Music and also gives the clarity that creativity and re creativity with values of rasa and excellence seamlessly become the tradition.
The expressions of concern and rejection is only for the innovations of temporal values creating excitement, creating the cultivated habits for appreciation and popular appeal and support and loss in values of the original rasaanubhava or aesthetic. It is also a fact that while extolling the conformance, they overlook their own non conformance, arising out of either ignorance, conscious or deliberate actions with ulterior motives for achieving the patronage and popularity with ease and comfort. They achieve great success because of mass appeal, patronage and support. With the class of discerning rasikas caring and supporting the merits, artists with great merits also achieve success even though they may not attain the level of mass appeal, popularity and support. Their success may be delayed, but can not be denied. This is universal state for any art, performing arts in particular.
Revolution in Classical Music, Karnataka Music is possible only with the rejection of the existing creative tools of manodharma-raaga aalaapana;taana; composition;niraval; pallavi;svara prastara or any one of the creative tools and creating an alternative tool of creativity. Any creativity or re creativity within the scope of the existing creative tools of manodharma sangita, is only evolution.
devan wrote:VKV SIR, you are doing agreat job.more than tmk,his so called intellectual followres should be shown their place.keep it up.
RESPONSE: Dear devan, THANKS. Even tho' not too bright 60 years of trying on my part has to count for something! I can at least speak the TRUTH AS I KNOW IT. VKV
devan wrote:VKV SIR, you are doing agreat job.more than tmk,his so called intellectual followres should be shown their place.keep it up.
Nice try to create a wedge among us!
MY RESPONSE: I am not trying to create a wedge WHEN the TWO are NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE! I hope I am SMART enough not to create a North Korea vs USA Situation.....I want persons to understand the ABSURDITY of the situation. MORE than anything else I want persons to realise the contributions of ARI as my assessment of TMK is his are pretty close to ZERO. AM I plain enough? VKV
vkv sir, you misunderstood, that was not directed at you. It was in response to Devan's post. Even when we disagree with each other, there is no 'showing someone their place' here. And it has been quite a respectful discussion among us even amidst disagreement with no loss of good will we have for each other.
vasanthakokilam wrote:vkv sir, you misunderstood, that was not directed at you. It was in response to Devan's post. Even when we disagree with each other, there is no 'showing someone their place' here. And it has been quite a respectful discussion among us even amidst disagreement with no loss of good will we have for each other.
MY RESPONSE: SORRY. OLD AGE PROBLEMS ON MY PART?! VKV
VKV,
Older age, agreed (and, don't I know it?), but problems? Nah, problem solving...and that at our age doesn't diminish if we keep our minds keen. And that too, with minds like yours. Problems with remembering small things in the present, agreed, but with a mind like yours--having been put to work by Feynman and his ilk, sorry, problems of age has nothing to do with drawing from your amazing asset of experience, and Devan after all paid a compliment, which is very welcome
We may not all be keen and sharp like our younger lot here, but how they need to hear from store houses of musical experiences like you! Chroniclers of your kind make the pages of history come alive for them, which reminds me--why isn't MKR posting? Surely, California does not have a ban on folks from NY commenting on Rasikas.org
Last edited by arasi on 22 Feb 2015, 14:26, edited 1 time in total.
arasi wrote:VKV,
Older age, agreed (and, don't I know it?), but problems? Nah, problem solving...and that at our age doesn't diminish if we keep our minds keen. And that too, with minds like you. Problems with remembering small things in the present, agreed, but with a mind like yours--having been put to work by Feynman and his ilk, sorry, problems of age has nothing to do with drawing from your amazing asset of experience, and Devan after all paid a compliment, which is very welcome
We may not all be keen and sharp like our younger lot here, but how they need to hear from store houses of musical experiences like you! Chroniclers of your kind make the pages of history come alive for them, which reminds me--why isn't MKR posting? Surely, California does not have a ban on folks from NY commenting on Rasikas.org
MY RESPONSE:THANKS! YOU ARE VERY KIND AS USUAL........I DON'T KNOW why MKR HAS NOT POSTED.. If you remember he said he will wait for me to start & he would join in. I will wait a couple& write him email. VK
