Prince Rama Varma @Music Academy (mini) on Aug 18th,2009

Review the latest concerts you have listened to.
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rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

Prince Rama Varma @Music Academy (mini) on Aug 18th,2009
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Conducted by sarvani sangeetha sabha with "Devi stuthi " as theme. Shri vermA was accompanied by Dr hemalAtha - violin and gaNapathirAman - mrudangam

Late by 15 minutes
1. Missed the first one in vakulAbharanam - T or BMK
2. nArayani dharmAdhike nannu ??? - kesari - T or BMK
between 1 and 2 one is T and BMK, shri verma spoke at the end of 1, but I am still not sure with 1 and 2 composer.

3. shree kamAlAmbhikE - shreerAgam - MD

4. sudhAmayi sudhAnidhi(R S) -amrithavarshini - HB
alApanai for 2 minutes , 1 mins violin and 14 minutes swaras
5. kamAkshi aNudhinamu - bhairavi - SS
** 6. vara veeNA mridhu pAni(geetham) - mohanam - appiah dikshitar

7A. devi pAvaNE(R S T) - sAveri - ST
9 mins alApanai, 7 mins violin , 9 mins swaras
7B. tani for 5 mins

8. sundari tripura sundari - ??? - grandfather of BMK( prAyaga raNga dAsA??)
9. thillAnA - kApi - MDR
10. bhujaga sAyiNam - yadhukula kAmbOdhi - ST

This is my first live concert experience of Sri rama verma . For sure there is a balamurali trademark everywhere, his voice was a typical keralite voice . But his delivery was having its ups and down, some I loved it , some I did not like it all and some somewhere in between.

What I loved:
------------

1.The amrithavarshini swaras were very manOdharmic ,there was a lot of flat note singing in alApana , but for his kind of male rich voice amrithavarshi suited him , the swaras were beautifully sung.

2.sAveri alApana had the right sedate tinge and his krithi rendition was clean with quite a good aesthetics in swaras (may be he could have gone more in swaras).

3. Even though I only heard the last violin return for the first no , I am assuming I would have loved his first vakulAbharanam because his deep male voice would have suited him.

4. There was a brief contextual speech for every krithi his communication was very good .


What I did not like:
-------------------

1. Sri rama vermA was not going at many places with the actual flow of the krithi or the alApanai , there were at times too much of "stop the train pull the chain" saNgathis. To that extent the music was not music4ever. :rolleyes:

2. vara veenA mridhu pAni is a geetham that I learnt , in my concert experience there was once TNS in his sangeetha kalAnidhi started with a geetham , but why he sang this number as a filler before main is not to my liking, I was atleast thinking all my life that vara veenA is generally taught to rasikas like me who will not make into concert league but still fake the family that he/she knows CM. ;)

3. sundari tripura sundari was an unknown rAga (may be a janya of k'priya), it was appearing as a very filmish number(Please note film based songs are in plenty like say MS amma, MLV and GNB which gives a carnatic aura , but this no does not seem to be in that league)

Somewhere in between like and didnot like:
-------------------------------------------
1. For me bhairavi swarajathi can represent comfortably the chowka, madhyama and dhurita kAlam, the dhuritam was missing especially towards few sangathis in the second half.ramA verma in general does not comfortably sing well in dhurita kAlam he appears to restrict his open throated singing. It would help immensely if he just opens more and does not get too conscious with melody. At times melody of voice will kill the expressiveness of this beautiful CM.

2. Shree rAgam krithi had its moments of glory , but at many places he split the lines like as though it was like a slOkham, the same happened in the previous number narayani dharmadikhe where there was lot of emphasis on diction .

3. MDR's kApi thillAna was quite good.The last YK KAmBodhi was also nice, I would have loved if he had included a rAgamAliga slOKham. What is the point in having concerts end at 08:20PM when he started at 06:15pm.

The violinist Dr hemalatha did a very fine job, her returns were quite tough as the style of verma itself is quite difficult to follow, especially her long swara returns were very well done. THe mridangist gaNapathi rAman was playing very subtlely more in line with verma's time, his tani was very good more in line with sAveri sedateness.

Overall a good to very good 2 hours and 5 minutes concert from ramA vermA.


** for the geetham in mOhanam , he was just mentioning that the composer is under controversy, he pointed to TRS in the first row and said that he can help in telling all of us the composer. What is the controversy there for this varnam , karnatik lists that as appiah dikshitar.

rbharath
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Post by rbharath »

rajeshnat wrote: 2. nArayani dharmAdhike nannu ??? - kesari - T or BMK
between 1 and 2 one is T and BMK, shri verma spoke at the end of 1, but I am still not sure with 1 and 2 composer.
should be.. nannu kanna talli nA bhAgyamA nArAyaNi dharmAmbhikE, a composition of Thyagaraja Swami
rajeshnat wrote: 10. bhujaga sAyiNam - yadhukula kAmbOdhi - ST
bhujaga sAyinO nAma mangaLam
Last edited by rbharath on 18 Aug 2009, 22:35, edited 1 time in total.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

rbharath wrote:
rajeshnat wrote: 2. nArayani dharmAdhike nannu ??? - kesari - T or BMK
between 1 and 2 one is T and BMK, shri verma spoke at the end of 1, but I am still not sure with 1 and 2 composer.
should be.. nannu kanna talli nA bhAgyamA nArAyaNi dharmAmbhikE, a composition of Thyagaraja Swami
bharath,
I think he started with the lines nArAyani dharmAbhikE , I do know nannu kanna talli (kesari), but did not connect during the concert.Thanks

devi
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 18:16

Post by devi »

Thank you Rajesh for the detailed review of Varmaji's concert.

Regarding nannu kanna talli, commencing from narayani dharmambike; I have often listened to Varmaji singing songs from the second portion of the pallavi and some times from anupallavi. For example, he starts the Purandaradasar Kriti, Naneke Badavanu @ Srinidhe; Swathi Thirunal Kriti Smarajanaka Subha Charitha @ Akhila loka Nayaka etc.
Last edited by devi on 18 Aug 2009, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

rajeshnat... I didn't see you! Always enjoy exchanging a few words, or even a friendly wave, so disappointed there. I did, however, meet up with an old friend, now London-based, who I haven't seen since her wedding a couple of years ago, so that made up for it.

Rama Varma had a cold. I doubt that he would want to announce it publicly, much less make any sort of excuse out of it, but it may have affected how far he travelled down each path he explored. I don't think it was noticable in his voice, though, except, maybe, just a touch, in the thillana. I would have liked more neraval, and more, longer, alapana. Maybe also the fact that it was a thematic concert, restricted by time, did not give him the opportunity of greater development. Perhaps the way that he delivered some of the kalpana swaras made up for there being less neraval.

I enjoyed the concert very much. I love a slow concert, and Varma very often delivers this. There seemed to be a very contemplative nature to his singing tonight.

I'm full of praise for Smt Hemalatha and Ganapathiraman. Hemalatha measured her delivery exactly to Varma's style and mood of delivery. The way that she "harmonised" with him was wonderful to hear. Her own creativity, especially in the alapana to the main piece, was a joy and, with my eyes closed, it occurred to me that I could be listening to a much more senior musician.

Ganapathiraman also played with great sensitivity and delicateness, never hurrying, always appropriate, but adding small sparkles with his thiermanums and occasional flourishes.

As always, I wish for more Chennai concerts by Rama Varma.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

And several in the season too, so that we can hear him too.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

nick H wrote:rajeshnat... I didn't see you! Always enjoy exchanging a few words, or even a friendly wave, so disappointed there. I did, however, meet up with an old friend, now London-based, who I haven't seen since her wedding a couple of years ago, so that made up for it.

I would have liked more neraval, and more, longer, alapana. Maybe also the fact that it was a thematic concert, restricted by time, did not give him the opportunity of greater development.

I enjoyed the concert very much. I love a slow concert, and Varma very often delivers this. There seemed to be a very contemplative nature to his singing tonight.

I'm full of praise for Smt Hemalatha and Ganapathiraman.
Nick
I did see you and your wife,wanted to say a quick hi, but as the concert got over I had a chance to talk to sureshvv who was also there, hence could not. Yes certainly more elaboration of alApana would have been better, I think he must have not sung a neraval for the first one too, it is "yes to cold -no to neraval " concert.

Sri rama verma's music is very poignant , may be if he did not have the cold it would have been a far better first impression. There is something original in his music, despite lot of style overlap with BMK .

As indicated by you, hemalatha was very good she had to go with a different style and just played like a shadow. gaNapathirAman's play was also very good kind of subdued during verma's turn, showing little more aggression during violin returns.
Last edited by rajeshnat on 19 Aug 2009, 09:27, edited 1 time in total.

mohan
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Post by mohan »

rajeshnat wrote: 2. vara veenA mridhu pAni is a geetham that I learnt , in my concert experience there was once TNS in his sangeetha kalAnidhi started with a geetham , but why he sang this number as a filler before main is not to my liking, I was atleast thinking all my life that vara veenA is generally taught to rasikas like me who will not make into concert league but still fake the family that he/she knows CM. ;)
The concert paddhati is surely getting tested these days. First varnams in the middle of concerts and now geetams? What next? Sarali Varasai as part of the concert for a warm up?

KSJaishankar
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Post by KSJaishankar »

Hmmm... the prince surely does seem to have a dedicated following. Am copying a songlist from a recent concert posted on this same forum:

Devi Kritis Special Concert by Swathi Thirunal Sangeetha Sabha, Thiruvananthapuram

Vocal: Prince Rama Varma
Violin: Parur Sundareshwaram
Mridangam: B Harikumar
Ghatom: Manjoor Unnikrishnan
Morsing: Kottayam Murali

Song List:

1. Amma Anandadayini - Gambhira Natta - Adi- Dr. Balamuralikrishna

2. Mayatheetha Swaroopini - Mayamalavagowla - Roopakam - Ponnaiah Pillai of Tanjore Quartet (S)

3. Nannukannathalli - Sindhu Kanada (Kesari) - Adi - Sri Tyagaraja

4. Sri Kamalambike Sive - Sri - Khanda Eka - Muthuswami Dikshitar

5. Sudhamayi Sudhanidhe - Amruthavarshini - Rupakam - Harikeshanallur Muthaiah Bhagavathar (S)

6. Bhairavi Swarajathi - Mishra Chappu - Shyama Shastri

7. Vara veena (!) - Mohanam - Rupakam - Purandaradasa(?)

8. Devi pavane - Saveri - Adi - Maharaja Swathi Thirunal (R, N, S)

Niraval @ Samajapungava charugathe. Varmaji is usually in the habit of offering short niraval sessions, but today he decided to offer an elaborate niraval treat for his audience which was taken very well!

9. Balathripura Sundari - (?) Prayaga Rangadasa

10. Bhagyada Lakshmi Baramma - Revagupti & Pantuvarali (?) - Purandaradasa

11. Sharanu Sharada - Chenchurutti (?) Anayya

12. Kapi Thillana - (?) M D Ramanathan

13. Mangalam - Bhujagashayino - Yadukulakamboji - Maharaja Swathi Thirunal

A good concert with interesting variety of songs.

Last edited by devi (2009-07-29 10:33)

Alert Moderator Post 1 Quote Post 1


Items 3 downwards is an identical listing as this concert ... this is what I call "lazy" selection by the artiste ... or is Rama Varma the new holy cow of Carnatic music and no one should critisize him?

rajaglan
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Post by rajaglan »

I guess when the theme is same , repetitions are fine. I remember in this season
Sanjay gave overlap of many songs in marghali maha utsavom and the concert in
tamil isai sangam.

skutty
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 09:27

Post by skutty »

Many great masters of Carnatic Music in the yester years often had a very limited repertoire of songs- but the way they rendered it always injected some freshness to it each time. This surely is the hallmark of a creative artiste. And people loved to hear them again and again.
But with technology, the young musicians of this generation are keenly watched, their concerts analysed and dissected by self-proclaimed critics and their list of songs are scrutinised for repetition. What a sad state of affairs when the artiste has to scramble for new songs each time there is a concert !! And what right does anyone have to belittle years of dedication, practice and polishing??
Surely when the audience is a different one, the venue is a different one the artiste has the right to decide the songs selected and what exactly does KSJaishankar mean by "holy cow"?
@rajeshnat I didn't understand your reference to his voice as a Kerala voice ? Have we started distinguishing voices also as "Kerala" "Tamilnadu" "Bengali" "Marathi"etc etc ??

srikant1987
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Post by srikant1987 »

How long was this concert?

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Yes, it was a thematic concert with the same theme, and it is unlikely that more than a tiny number would have attended a concert in Trivandrum as well as yesterday's program.

You are hardly justified in accusing holy-cow-ism on the basis that members have not checked previous song lists before posting. It is a ridiculous suggestion.

Of course, you are entitled to make the criticism.

On another note... sorry to have also missed sureshvv at the concert.
Last edited by Guest on 19 Aug 2009, 12:53, edited 1 time in total.

devi
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Post by devi »

nick H wrote: I would have liked more neraval...
Dear Nick,

Here's an excerpt of the beautiful neraval @ "Samajapungavacharugathe" from the Saveri Kriti, Devi Pavane by Sri. Rama Varma Sir. Apologies for the poor audio quality of this private recording.


http://www.sendspace.com/file/h9o6og

regards
Devi
Last edited by devi on 19 Aug 2009, 14:25, edited 1 time in total.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

skutty wrote:@rajeshnat I didn't understand your reference to his voice as a Kerala voice ? Have we started distinguishing voices also as "Kerala" "Tamilnadu" "Bengali" "Marathi"etc etc ??
skutty,
Usually male singers who are from kerala have a very rich bass voice(KJ Yesudoss is the best example) , infact when I wrote kerralite voice ,I did see quite a bit of overlap of singers like MK Sankaran NambUthri and Rama verma in voice timbre aspect.

For me it is quite difficult to distinguish TamilNadu because you have a fairly even spread, bengali and marathi(know only few film singers..) no clue whatsover , if you know you can add.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

Rama verma was mentioning that despite the theme being devi stuthi and there being many many krithis, he said he will sing one krithi per composer .

When I put the songlist I did notice the major overlap of rama verma in the trivandrum and to an extent few numbers from bala747 review of a sifas concert.

I guess most of the numbers are decided by his special constraints(I dont mean constraint as any limitation but more on the krithi sequence) .The first constraint is he decides to sing that days Swati TirunAl composition , incidentally being the third day it was sAveri, when sAveri is sung as a main will in turn have a ripple on what other krithis he sings. The second is he decides to sing one composer per number and the third being devi stuthi must have given the same song sequence. I am certainly not complaining as this is madras and the other two was in trivandrum and singapore.

Would be nice to get the next review from some one else in another city ,where rama verma is again taking up a devi stuthi theme, I am kind of half sure that he may read this review and take this input from ks Jaishankar.

There are perils and advantages of internet reviews. ;)
Last edited by rajeshnat on 19 Aug 2009, 14:45, edited 1 time in total.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

rajeshnat wrote:Usually male singers who are from kerala have a very rich bass voice(KJ Yesudoss is the best example) , infact when I wrote kerralite voice ,I did see quite a bit of overlap of singers like MK Sankaran NambUthri and Rama verma in voice timbre aspect.
This may not be a valid generalization. There is a strong "Yesudas effect" which affects many modern male classical & playback singers from Kerala. They want to sound like him, and consciously cultivate their voice to be able to sound like him. He has set a kind of gold-standard as regards the voice cultivation and presentation, and audiences frequently compare others to him even when the singers themselves do not seek such a comparison. "You sound like Yesudas" is supposed to be a big compliment to such singers.

Of course, there is nothing wrong in that, but not all singers end up having the same type of voice, and it is probably not proper to call it as "keralite voice" to the detriment of many other prominent keralite singers (jayachandran, unnikrishnan are those who come to mind) who have other kinds of voices.

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

skris, I wonder if you have, yourself, noticed this in Rama Varma?

I'd say (always admitting limited experience, and I have not seen Yesudas for years, as I grew tired of his sermons) that if there is any influence one can see in Varma's voice, it is that of BMK. In fact, I feel glad that some of BMK's style is being safely carried into the future. However, RV's own style is still there too, it is not at all a copy of his guru.

Are there any other performing students of BMK? It would be interesting to compare....

srikant1987
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Post by srikant1987 »

srkris wrote:"keralite voice" to the detriment of many other prominent keralite singers (jayachandran, unnikrishnan are those who come to mind)
Jayachandran (if you mean the Jayachandran who sang "kannattil muttam iTTAl") definitely has a KJY-type voice. In fact Mano has an SPB-type voice too. :|
nick H wrote:However, RV's own style is still there too, it is not at all a copy of his guru.
Every time I see the initials RV my mind remembers (Trivandrum) R Venkataraman and I get very excited.

Btw Prince Ravi Varma has also learnt from Vidwan R Venkataraman. :)
Last edited by srikant1987 on 19 Aug 2009, 17:17, edited 1 time in total.

braindrain
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Post by braindrain »

srikant1987 wrote:
srkris wrote:"keralite voice" to the detriment of many other prominent keralite singers (jayachandran, unnikrishnan are those who come to mind)
Jayachandran (if you mean the Jayachandran who sang "kannattil muttam iTTAl")
Or was it Vaikom Jayachandran, desciple of TMT ?

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

srkris wrote:
rajeshnat wrote:Usually male singers who are from kerala have a very rich bass voice(KJ Yesudoss is the best example) , infact when I wrote kerralite voice ,I did see quite a bit of overlap of singers like MK Sankaran NambUthri and Rama verma in voice timbre aspect.
This may not be a valid generalization. There is a strong "Yesudas effect" which affects many modern male classical & playback singers from Kerala. They want to sound like him, and consciously cultivate their voice to be able to sound like him. He has set a kind of gold-standard as regards the voice cultivation and presentation, and audiences frequently compare others to him even when the singers themselves do not seek such a comparison. "You sound like Yesudas" is supposed to be a big compliment to such singers.
srkris,
Mine is not a perfect generalization but near close generalization for most of the cases .There is something exceptional about the deep sonorous voice that a typical kerala based male singer has. I am only referring that, KJ YesudAs, unnimenon, sankaran nambUthri and to an extent rama verma (though the first 3 are very very close) and srivalsonl menon (whom I heard only in youtube)

Is it a case of present musicians trying to have KJY as a role model in terms of voice cultivation or is it a case of excess nEndranka chips that gets passed from one generation to next generation (mentioned the same in sankaran nambUthri's concert) is something I dont know though I would side slightly more with the second option.
Last edited by rajeshnat on 19 Aug 2009, 18:10, edited 1 time in total.

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

nick H wrote:skris, I wonder if you have, yourself, noticed this in Rama Varma?

I'd say (always admitting limited experience, and I have not seen Yesudas for years, as I grew tired of his sermons) that if there is any influence one can see in Varma's voice, it is that of BMK. In fact, I feel glad that some of BMK's style is being safely carried into the future. However, RV's own style is still there too, it is not at all a copy of his guru.

Are there any other performing students of BMK? It would be interesting to compare....
Nick
One of the days I will give you early days of KJY not the days of his sermon .You will see there is a definitely lot of touch points of verma and KJY that too when he moves towards lower octaves.

The last time when you came to kurudi venkannachar's concert at west mambalam, you wrote he was almost like BMK there both the style and the voice thrust matched .To an extent for vermA he is not going all out as BMK which is a great thing in my opinion, he gives a shade of KJY(early days preferably KJY singing along with chembai) and also a definite tinge of MDR .

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

Devi or any one else,
# Can you let me know the rAga of BAla tripura sundari , for now like its name it is still a googly ;)
# Also the vakulAbharanam krithi of BMK. I would love to hear that missed one some time soon.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

Besides nEndrangAi chips, how about belgian chocolates :)
Rama Varma is quite a sport and yes, this forum coddles him as much as it does its other members and is not timid when it comes to criticism either--a generous dose of it at one time, if I remember. Yes, he is tolerant and graceful too. He is a gentleman (prince or not).
I am surprised that repetitions of a few songs by performers in different venues, with the restrictions of a theme too is questioned here. Not the same as listening to a concert which apes the previous concert (s) which sometimes makes us feel as if we are listening to a recording!
I am all for new songs in a concert. But not all of them. The same song might sound new, with a rAgam and svarams which are very different from the previous renderings. Even those of us who like to be surprised by unknown songs in a concert, want a base of the classics with which a concert can be built appealingly.
RV is passionate about music. He will keep learning and evolving and it will be interesting to see where all that he has been assimilating will lead him to. Great gurus and a devotion to muic is not a bad combination.
Last edited by arasi on 19 Aug 2009, 19:21, edited 1 time in total.

devi
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Post by devi »

rajeshnat wrote:Devi or any one else,
# Can you let me know the rAga of BAla tripura sundari , for now like its name it is still a googly ;)
# Also the vakulAbharanam krithi of BMK. I would love to hear that missed one some time soon.

1. Bala tripura sundari - No Clue ! :-/ (Its a very cute song and my 5 year old daughter absolutely enjoys singing the song)

2. Here's a link from Sangeethapriya which gives Dr. Balamuralikrishna's rendition of Kumarunivalanu kavave in Vakulabharanam. The song was composed by Sri. Balamuralikrishna when he was just 14 years old as part of the 72 Kritis he composed in each Melakartha Ragam.

http://sangeethamshare.org/nanda/Melaka ... MK-BMK.mp3

And to get the Varma version of the ragam please watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPOqB3rpz7M

regards,
Devi
Last edited by devi on 19 Aug 2009, 20:41, edited 1 time in total.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Rama Verma definitely sings in the style (both of voice as well as style) of BMK, more so now than earlier.

But as Rajeshnat says, KJY sounded different and less talkative (sermonizing if you please) earlier, maybe when I am in Chennai next you can listen to his older concert recordings.

Lakshman
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Post by Lakshman »

There is a song by Guru Surajananda with the same starting words.

bAlA tripura. rAgA: mOhana. rUpaka tALA.

P: bAlA tripura sundari kAlAgraha dOSa nivAraNi
A: kOlAhala vishva rUpiNi shUlAyuda vIra darshani
C: nIlA nitya dAkSAyaNi mAlA amrta pradAyini
DolA sura dhIra mardani mUlAdhAra shiva svarUpiNi

wordpecker007
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Post by wordpecker007 »

@Rajeshnat Ji,

'his voice was a typical keralite voice!!!!!


I thought music is universal and sans frontiers. We have enough divisions in everyday life. Please let us not divide music too on the basis on narrow parochial terms into Keralite, Tamil and Telugu voices. And I think Varmaji’s voice is very different from KJY’s. (I don’t know how KJY sounded like in his younger days but now"¦) In fact, I would say it is Varmaji’s individual style that is one of his biggest plus points. Although I missed this particular concert, I was lucky enough to attend a concert he had given in Anna Nagar on August 16. The organizer, a knowledgeable mami, was completely overwhelmed by Varmaji’s music. She remarked that she was hearing the Thygaraja composition ‘Thulasi’ (Saveri) after nearly two decades and elaborated why she thought the singer had infused the popular ‘Vaathapi’ with new life and so on. She lavished praise on his repertoire, diction and music that was shruthi shuddham.

And @K.S.Jaishankar
What is so ‘holy cow’ about the Prince. In fact, I often feel life would have been easier for him as a singer minus the royal tag as people would judge him only by his music and not harp on the royal connection. Moreover, I have heard so many singers sing the same compositions during Navaratri for instance. A thematic concert does not give you many choices. And it is Varmaji’s wide repertoire that has been one of his strengths.
Recently I had e-mailed him to know if the Navaratri schedule had been arranged and to thank him for discovering a gem like Parasala Ponnammal. She had been around for so many years and no one had thought it fit to invite her to Cleveland or the prestigious music sabhas. It was only after her concert in the Navaratri Mandapam (thanks to Varmaji) that suddenly she was in favour.
I asked him why he had been missing from rasikas.org. He replied that although there were many wonderful, knowledgeable and discerning rasikas with a world view on this forum, the verbal arrows, sometimes personal attacks, and trite remarks by a handful of so-called critics tired him. He felt it was not worth the effort to keep on responding to their nitpicking that served no purpose.
I feel that, Carnatic music has to go beyond a handful of Chennai-centric rasikas and critics to attract larger audiences. I wonder how many of our diehard fans on this forum have attended a Navaratri or Kuthiramalika concert that attracts huge crowds in Trivandrum. Varmaji makes it a point to get an interesting selection of singers and accompanists (both veterans and upcoming). Even globetrotting singers like Dr. Balamuralikrishna, Sanjay Subrahmaniam and T.M. Krishna have remarked how unique these venues are.


And oh yes, According to Varmaji, 'Bala tripura Sudari is a folk song. I agree with Devi when she says it is a cute song. My son loves it too.
Last edited by wordpecker007 on 20 Aug 2009, 08:43, edited 1 time in total.

VK RAMAN
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Post by VK RAMAN »

It is silly to distinguish artists because of their mother tongue

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

The thing with generalisations is that they are fine if they are not taken too seriously. They do come in very handy in discussion, sometimes even more so in discussions that are not face to face, although, when online, words of any kind can take on a seriousness, or be misunderstood. Let us take the ideas of this kind of voice, or that kind of voice lightly, and in the spirit in which they are meant. Even my wife, who has no great interest in analysis of the singer, and certainly no intent to discriminate, but who has grown up speaking both Tamil and Malayalam, mentioned his singing as being, to her, noticeably Kerala. There are different accents, I'm sure it must affect the music.

As to being Chennai-centric, we cannot help where we live. Whilst Varma has mentioned to me, some time back, that he finds this forum to be Chennai-centric, I am not sure that we even have a majority living in Chennai? We love and support carnatic music where we live whether that is London, USA, Singapore, or Trivandrum. Well... I love his music, and like him as an individual, but we don't have to agree about rasikas.org!

Rajeshnat, there are other reasons that I stopped attending KJY concerts, totally irrelevant to this thread. I don't deny his honey-velvet voice, not do I fail to honour his struggle.

gn.sn42
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Post by gn.sn42 »

nick H wrote:his honey-velvet voice
One or the other, surely, not both at the same time? (Think of the mess.)

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

:lol:

When it comes to voices, such a combination is possible :)

arasi
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Post by arasi »

'honey-dripping, velvet-smooth voice'? :)

Yes, we do miss RV on the forum. He has no airs, has a world view and is affable to all--I can't say the same of all the forumites :)

As for Rajesh, most of us know him. He has his own brand of reviews, he calls a spade a spade in his own manner. His understanding about CM, his instinct and partiality to details (measured by minutes too!) are things to be noted. His comment about RV's voice wasn't something that he uttered out of prejudice or narrow-mindedness, if I know Rajesh.

wordpecker007
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Post by wordpecker007 »

@ K.S. Jaishankar- or is Rama Varma the new holy cow of Carnatic music and no one should critisize him?



Oh, by the way, who is the old holy cow of Carnatic music?

rajeshnat
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Post by rajeshnat »

devi wrote: 2. Here's a link from Sangeethapriya which gives Dr. Balamuralikrishna's rendition of Kumarunivalanu kavave in Vakulabharanam. The song was composed by Sri. Balamuralikrishna when he was just 14 years old as part of the 72 Kritis he composed in each Melakartha Ragam.
Devi
It is indeed the same krithi , eventhough I did not hear that , shri verma mentioned about shri BMK composing the krithi at the age of 14 years. Thanks

Nick as summed up well in terms of what I wanted to write in his post #31 as a reply to wordpecker007's post #28 , I will just leave it at that.
Last edited by rajeshnat on 20 Aug 2009, 09:25, edited 1 time in total.

rajaglan
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Post by rajaglan »

My few thoughts here.

1. For me the Prince Rama Verma sounds like Balamurali Krishna.
2. I like rajeshnat reviews. It is in to details. I have not seen bias so far.
3. Keralite voice.... Nothing wrong in it. I also interpreted this as Jesudas kind of voice. It is (mostly) always interpreted like that
as many sound like him in Kerala. And again Why someone should feel inferior when they are clubbed with such accomplished singer,
and when the voice is same and not the style.
4. And on a different thought, we should not say wrong about regeionalism. This comes because one feel some regeion is better
than another. Everyone should feel proud where they are from. Classifying a music based on regeion or guru or school is more
of typification than for quality. When you go down in to chennai circle, there is Aiyangar vs Iyer virtual circle and as long as one party
does NOT say we are the best or bash the other side , there is nothing wrong in being proud of one community for having good
players in the field.
Last edited by rajaglan on 20 Aug 2009, 11:30, edited 1 time in total.

devi
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Post by devi »

I have been listening to Sri Rama Varma both live and private recordings for almost 16 years. I must say I agree completely with Arasi madam when she says "RV is passionate about music. He will keep learning and evolving and it will be interesting to see where all that he has been assimilating will lead him to. Great gurus and a devotion to music is not a bad combination."

Lot of accusations have been thrown at him including making an Aviyal* of Semmangudi, Balamurali, Madurai Mani Iyer and MDR (In case some one missed out.. please add Voleti too..) In this forum also he has been subjected to personal attacks and severe criticism whereas it must not be forgotten that RV has also been receiving quite a lot of wonderful remarks too to balance out or even outweigh the negative comments; just like any other artist featured here.

Equally bad enough are the contribution from some of the Varma fans. Whenever any criticism is raised, some of Sri. Varma’s fans jump right in with claims that Varma Sir is being subjected to criticism just because he is a 'royal' and start reeling out his merits in various fields which unnecessarily drags the issue to other levels. Although there is no harm in stating facts what’s the relevance of such information on his excellent organising capacity or individual virtues (which by now many of the forumites agree unequivocally) when the review is all about one particular concert of Sri. Varma. Especially so when Sri. Varma, an artist who wishes to better himself constantly, totally appreciates constructive criticism.

I for one, a proud Malayai and a Trivandrumite, didn’t find anything controversial about Sri. Rajesh’s remarks (Keralite Voice). I just assumed it as his way of expressing Varma’s singing style. (Wonder why people don’t dispute when the Veena Banis are classified into Tanjore, Mysore, Trivandrum etc) I found his review quite detailed and very much straight forward. Quite pertinent were his remarks about Varma Sir’s singing style.

*Aviyal - For those who dont know whats aviyal - its very much a Kerala dish, quite tasty and healthy, made by combining delicious indigenous vegetables with a savoury coconut paste)
@ Rajeshnat
You are most welcome Sir. Hope you enjoyed the neraval excerpt too.
Last edited by devi on 20 Aug 2009, 14:25, edited 1 time in total.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Devi, are you musiquebox?

Layavinyasa
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Post by Layavinyasa »

Devi, if you are then please accept my thanks. It is a wonderful service you are doing to music by bringing us the videos of
Varmaji since it is very rare to get to hear him live. I searched for Bala Tripura Sundari and found a video made by Varmaji
of some cute kids singing it. The explanation by musiquebox is interesting too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUy__kzrwio
Further search yielded this really sweet video too, with musique4ever/Varma ji's explanation, which impressed me as much as the video did. I wish these kids and their teacher all the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKwUIsONrgM

devi
Posts: 196
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Post by devi »

srkris wrote:Devi, are you musiquebox?

No Srkris and Layavinyasa.. I am not Musiquebox. I am just a humble fan of Varmaji, with highest regard for him as a musician, a teacher, a writer and most of all as a genuine human being. I consider myself extremely lucky to be acquainted with this gem of a person who pursues his journey through life and work with greatest sincerity and dedication. Even if he doesn’t always excel in whatever he does professionally, be it as a musician, a teacher and a writer or as an organiser, I am sure he makes every effort to present whatever he has to offer with utmost sensitivity regarding the recipients.
Last edited by devi on 20 Aug 2009, 20:24, edited 1 time in total.

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

devi, I think that is a very well-balanced comment. For some reason, I caught onto Rama Varma when I saw him perform in London more than one decade ago, so as one of the lesser-experienced rasikas here, this is one artist who's development I feel I have, to some extent, observered. In the process, we have also become known to each other and, it is probably always different, to some extent, writing about a performer one knows rather than a performer one just sees and hears. Perhaps I'm guilty of jumping to his defence sometimes!

At the personal level, I know two things: one is that he is as much a prince as I am an Englishman --- despite his humility, which is genuine, we cannot just leave behind our backgrounds. The other is that I know that he is much more interested in being a musician than being a prince, even if this places him at odds with his family and his background. So, if I jump to his defence, it is usually when people throw the "royal" stone.

I find some hypocrisy too, in the throwing of that stone, when so much pride is shown in family connection to Thyagaraja, or to other great musicians and composers of the past --- but descent from Raja Swati Thirunal somehow doesn't seem to count.

Perhaps, just as Rama Varma seems not to be able to avoid the controversy of royalty, perhaps he will continue to attract the controversy that has attended his guru! But hey, to appropriate the old saying about friends, we can cannot choose our families, but our guru is our own choice :)
Last edited by Guest on 20 Aug 2009, 15:37, edited 1 time in total.

skutty
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Post by skutty »

For the record, my question to rajeshnat was not an accusation of bias. Except for the point I raised, I liked his detailed review. I do not agree with Devi when she says that Varmaji's fans jump into the bandwagon, mindlessly defending him. I hope just like the musician, his admirers too are sensible enough. And that said, I strongly resent what Jaishankar wrote, which was irrelevant and beside the point.

But even after all these umpteen explanations, I am afraid that I still haven't realised how exactly a voice can belong to a region. An accent, yes; but a voice ?? When I speak to Varmaji, I clearly recognise an accent- whether he speaks in English, Malayalam or Hindi- English Literature students call it the mother-tongue influence. And yes, I agree there is nothing to be ashamed of. But when he sings, it is a totally different matter- I have heard him sing Hindi ghazals with nary a trace of an accent. Did MDR have a Keralite voice ? Or for that matter, does BMK have a Telugu voice ? What I find most distinguishing in Varmaji's diction is the way he rounds off the syllables, he doesn't squash the words like many singers do and this I attribute to the fact that he takes pains to completely understand the saahithyam and awaken the bhaavam in the composition.

@devi- banis and voices are totally different- I am sure I don't have to elaborate. To my limited knowledge, Voices can be squeaky, high, low, shrill, deep etc.....

skutty
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Post by skutty »

The knowledgeable "maami" at the Anna Nagar concert was Sri.Lalgudi's sister who commented that more often than not, what we see on stage is "gushti", but with Varma, the wavelength that he shares with accompanists is to be seen to be believed....
Last edited by skutty on 20 Aug 2009, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

skutty wrote:The knowledgeable "maami" at the Anna Nagar concert was Sri.Lalgudi's sister....
Padmavathi (the vainika) or Srimathi (the violinika)?

skutty
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Post by skutty »

@srkris Smt.Padmavathy Ananthagoplan, the vainika

skutty
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Post by skutty »

devi wrote:[Even if he doesn’t excel in whatever he does professionally, be it as a musician, a teacher and a writer or as an organiser, I am sure he makes every effort to present whatever he has to offer with utmost sensitivity regarding the recipients.
And I must say I take strong exception to this comment of yours. If, as you say, you have been following his career for the past 16 years, I find it incredulous. Do you mean to say that in all these roles, he doesn't excel ?? His music, which had to cross several hurdles to be even heard by the public, has matured in the past two decades and yes, he constantly strives to be better. He is his own best critic- I have never heard him say that he is completely satisfied with a concert. For him, there is always room for improvement. So yes, his music is evolving but he definitely excels in his chosen passion/profession.

His organisational skills- when the Kerala government suddenly withdrew from conducting Swathi Sangeetotsavam ten years back, he had to scramble at the last minute to organise it, dipping into his own resources. Ofcourse, he learnt a few hard lessons along the way but the Swathi Sangeetotsavam today is one of the best organised, if not the best, and best attended festivals in Kerala.

His teaching skills- Perla, being an example, where he has to practice the utmost patience to teach kids who know neither English nor Malayalam. Yet, Music having its own language, his exercise, his dedication, his passion, his knowledge all combine together to produce musically-enlightened kids. I have not heard a single student speak of him in anything but glowing terms.

Is it any wonder then, that his admirers feel forced to respond when there are such comments from so-called "followers" of his music ?? He certainly doesn't need critics, when he has such followers who feel he doesn't "excel" in whatever he does !!!!

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

Given Devi's stated feelings about Varma and his music, I did not read that comment in that way at all. If you are right, then I'd agree with you, but I felt that devi meant it more in the ultimate sense, or maybe it was just a bad choice of words...

I'm sure devi will tell us.

devi
Posts: 196
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 18:16

Post by devi »

@ Skutty and Nick
I missed out a word... I should have included Always... Even if he doesn't always excel in whatever he does.... Have edited the post. And I stand by my view entirely.

I have reiterated several times in this forum and as well as in other places about the high regard I have for the exemplary works Varma Sir does and has total appreciation for all the good works he does. I myself have had the good fortune to benefit a lot from his musical and literary knowledge. I do believe each one has his own way of benchmarking excellence and hence expressed my above view. I DO NOT for once dare to say that Varma Sir or anyone for that matter has reached the pinnacle of excellence in everything he or she does. There is always room for excellence... and as a fan of his I wholeheartedly wish with God's grace he pursue excellence always...

Regards
Devi
Last edited by devi on 20 Aug 2009, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

Nick,
You say it as an englishman would say it...
Just testing :).......to see how many englishmen would jump into the arena and demand for an explanation! Those who read Rajesh's reviews know how intent he is in his listening and how he can coin new phrases to express his esponses to performances. The kerala voice was one such thing, and was a compliment rather than a divisive statement.
The way I understand it: The language a singer speaks and its intonations will have a slight effect on her singing. The language in which she sings will have some effect too. That is why when a telugu speaking singer sings a tyAgarAja and annamAcArya, it sounds a bit different from the way others sing them.
Rajesh would have meant it this way, I think. Kerala way, rather than voice (though RV is fluent in several languages). The influence of his gurus will be there too.
When we speak english, we bring in a bit of our own languages into it. Our children who grew up in the UK and US say names and words in tamizh slightly differently--emphasis on certain syllables shifting, the intonation not the same, and so on.

Nick H
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Post by Nick H »

esponce... e-sponce... online re-sponse!

You have given us a new word, Arasi :D

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