what raga (western piece)

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 26 Dec 2009, 21:21

On a strangely coincidental note (with all this talk about fusion and stuff), one of my (younger) relatives played this for me last weekend as he felt it "may perk my interest" - and it did it. Strangely I always thought one place where many of the 'melancholic' scales behind our ragas can really thrive in a symphony setting like this one. Of course Ilayaraja and others have already done this, but here is a Swedish "death metal" band Therion doing a piece with (their usual) symphonic setting where the scale should seem definitely "familiar" for many Indian ears:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsx9mMtcfoM

Can you make out the Indian raga whose scale matches this one?

Warning: Since this is metal and I guess death metal - be prepared

! Although if you have heard and like some of the really rousing western pieces like say O Fortuna (Carl Orff), this is in that mould.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Dec 2009, 22:47

Thanks Arun. It sounds to me like harmonic minor and so it will map to Kiravani but the overall sound has the aesthetic of mayamalawagowla.

The initial portion, before everyone joins, can the thala be considered a fast tisra matya? It is quite explicitly (tha-ki-ta) ( tha-ka) ( tha-ki-ta) or ( tha-ki-ta) ( tha-ki-ta) ( tha-ka )

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 26 Dec 2009, 23:25

My initial instinct when was MMG - but it is not - it a raga close to it (one swara difference). And no it is not kiravani.

ta-ki-Ta ta-ki-Ta ta-ka as a way of handling 8 beats isnt uncommon in catusragati (i.e. 3+3+2 = 4 + 4) as well.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Dec 2009, 23:54

It is probably vakulAbaraNam then. Not that I know vakulAbaraNam but the one or two times I heard it sounded like 'MMG but with some difference'.

On a tangential topic, I am now curious why it sounds like Harmonic Minor and MMG to me at the same time. That does not make much sense scale-wise.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 27 Dec 2009, 00:36

I dont know. One possibility is you assumed ni was N3 (which initially I did too) and associated p d n s more to kirvani while s r g m to MMG.

I did not sense kiravani at all.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 27 Dec 2009, 01:03

Arun, I also do not sense any kiravani but somehow it sounded like another song in harmonic minor. Not based on any note identification but based on overall feel. ( Outside of this piece, in general, Harmonic Minor songs do not sound like kiravani but then we know scale similarity does not mean much. )

So, is it vakulabharanam for this piece?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 27 Dec 2009, 02:32

Yes I believe it is vakulabharanam (or the scale equiv of it)

Arun

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Dec 2009, 15:40

arunk wrote:ta-ki-Ta ta-ki-Ta ta-ka as a way of handling 8 beats isnt uncommon in catusragati (i.e. 3+3+2 = 4 + 4) as well.

Thanata Dhinata Dhina

An early mridangam lesson, and quite common in accompanying.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 31 Dec 2009, 15:46

It is vakulabharanam scale and it is kiravani (harmonic minor) scale. Depends on your perspective

.

This vakulabharanam (S-R1-G3-M1-P-D1-N2) - Kiravani (S-R2-G2-M1-P1-D1-N3) combine is a common Ashkenazi Jewish theme of the modern era.

The famous Jewish song "hava nagila" runs similarly, effortlessly shifting the modes between these two scales. Here's the first hava nagila I got from google:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFtv5qe5o3c

vinsim · Post by **vinsim** » 15 Jan 2010, 01:52

This sounds very much like the music played in an old DD footage of the musical fountain in KRS, Mysore. It used to be played frequently on TV in the late 80's.

I don't know if anyone remembers it. I tried hard, but couldn't find that western piece on the net.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 15 Jan 2010, 17:35

to me it is vagulaabharanam