Neyveli SanthanagOpalan@kalAkruthi(Egmore) on Dec 16,2006

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 22 Dec 2006, 13:13

pakkala rAmadas - violin , ganapathirAman - mridangam and ghatam - ravichandran

Before even I start discussing about this concert, a little original defintion of bhAvam will help . bhAvam to me is sometimes mistaken by many of us as only rAgas that have melodic content (eg Ananda Bhairavi). The opposite of melody is depth that is naturally missing by design, whenever melody is taken. Usually the depth is more felt in main,submain and RTP, particularly with rAgas like kAmbOdhi.

Most of the time the depth and melody is mutually exclusive, that is truth let us accept it(few exceptions are indeed there ). Two extraordinary exceptional musicians like SSI-MMI have given extraordinary depth to even melodious rAgas(eg Ananda Bhairvai,marivere and O jegedamba ), but they were all very original.The key point is SSI-MMI did have bhAvam too .

Then what is bhAvam . bhAvam is actually a very natural,original and truthtful expression of musician centered around his/her mood .He/She also accepts the reality of rAgas not trying to either get into hyperactive or hypoactive mode, just in case if it is not there in the head at that time .

Lot of musicians will get into this hypoactive mode and confuse the rAgas with depth ,skirting in the surface and unneccessarily misguiding in the name of bhAvam(Let's leave names of those musicians out...) . Here was Shri SanthanagOplan whom I only hear in short burst or thematic concerts most of the times , expressing with original bhAvam (not the media projected bhAvam).

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 22 Dec 2006, 13:15

1. chalamElara - nAttaiKurinji - rangaswamy nattuvAnar
2. mahaganapathim manasA (R,S) - nAttai - MD
3. nija marmamulanu(S) - umabharanam - T

No better start than the gentle descent of nAttaikurinji setting quickly a mood in me of what this concert would be. A very nice nAttai with just proportional swaram, indicating he is not going to overdo anything,if it is not there in his head.

The umabharanam krithi , usually a nijamArmamulanu was split as nija marmamulanu,
just making me think that the effort of our vgvindan can be heard with santhanagOpalan.

4. marukElara O raghava (R N S) - jayanthashri - T
5. O jegadamba (R) - Anandabhairavi - SS
6. nee vAda nee GhAna - Saranga - T
7. shree valli devasenapathe (R S T)- nAtabhairavi - T

How can I describe this lovely jayanthashri. All singers sing with an unwanted thrust really not giving the right expression.His expressions was simply outstanding. The rAga alApanai was perfect with he giving the thrust that this man is singing a perfect jayanthashri not straying to hindOlam. The neraval was again split to vgvindan's satisfaction "anni nannu vanucu antha ranga muna??". The swarams were very good. This man and his voice fitted like a perfect T in the next O jegadamba , lovely alApanai and an excellent rendition.

Saranga was very good and The next natabhairavi was a main , perfectly enforcing that natabhairavi should be sung with the right natural bhAvam(no overstretching because it is main). Sivan's natabhairavi krithi shree valli devasenapathe was sung very well, starting with a surprising anupallavi and just the right swaram sprinkled. The tAni was balanced without disturbing the mood of the rasikas.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 22 Dec 2006, 13:16

The crowd was just 45 at the start with dipping to about 30 only at the end not start of tani. Shri santhanagOpalan's humility was there when he said , ellOrum En anga anga utkeranga , ellorum munnadi vangO(Dont sit spreading everywhere , come forward ) .I went with a little trepidation as I was worried about the loud speaker.

8. ini namOkuru kavalayum illai (R) - bilahari - kOteeswar Iyer
9A.kAdhalAki kasindu kanneer melgi oduvAr(viruttam) - darbAri KAnaDa - thevAram
9B. veda nAyakan vediga nAyakan - darbAri kAnaDa - ???

We all occupied just 3 rows. He showed his melodic brilliance from there on .I saw him in close quarters how he sang with that feeling that would have made kOteeswara Iyer cry especially in the lines "punitha thyagarAja swami kanavil vanthu katchi thandaDal". He connected me with what I always believe there is no cm without satguru thyagarAja. Believe me it is very difficult to impress me with a tukkada in bilahari.

Wow what a lilting darbAri kAnaDa from north india to give a stunning combination with a tamil tevaram and a brilliant veda nAyakan.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 22 Dec 2006, 13:17

10. thillAna - poorvi - ThiruvArur VaidhyanAthan
11. margazhi thingal - nAttai - thiruppAvai
12. vanga kadal kadantha(S) - shuruTTi - thiruppAvai
13. mangalam.

The poorvi TillAna is most difficult to impress, simply because MDR set one of the highest bar. I have not heard MDR at all in live concert, but here was he again connecting that memorable line "nishAdha rishaba .... " exactly giving the interpretation of what actually are the lego blocks of CM. Tillanas are time adjustments before the next rat race for the vidwan. If you all would not think my statement is farfetched, perhaps he is closest to MDR .

The concert again did not end there. Who sings 2 tiruppavai's the first in nAttai and the last in shuruTTi. Who sings the last shuruTTi with a long 2 minute swaram. Here I connected with the only concert of his guru Shri ThanjAvur Sankara Iyer which I posted . Interestingly I forgot myself that he is repeating nAttai again.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 22 Dec 2006, 13:18

About the sabha:
This sabha in egmore is bit far away from the excessive sabha noise of T Nagar and Mylapore. The sabha is kalakruthi (started by Womens wing)with almost an experience of that it is going to fold anyday (Thanks to Indian Overseas Bank)The hall is given free by Arusuvai natarajan , whom I could see being very emotive.

The mike man is one of the greatest , his name is Mr. Narayanan.He usually adjusts the mike very well, many times screwed by the performers. Also I gave him once 100 Rs , he did not accept it.The sabha secy ,a locatious talker Smt ?? , was very silent.

Looks like Egmore and other surrounding areas always have poor patronage, but they do have the right silence.I had to spend Rs 200,half for auto and half as token for this sabha which always gives me a free concert.

Noticable weekness
If there is one weakness for Neyveli, he sometimes talks a little excess in the concert ,that too when shri arusuvai natarajan who has got a weakness to praise any musician too long and connect his grand old memories .bhAvam in speech sometimes eats bhAvam in music, that is a sure fact that I notice in kAlakruthi.

General plea
On a general note, I always keep hearing Shri Neyveli's voice is gone forever too often . May be they are referring after hearing 1991-2001 where I have not heard him at all. For all those sceptics, I would recommend them to give a sincere try , you will get a feeling of what I say?

There is a natural and original bhAvam in him.If you don't listen to flute ramani, Neyveli at regular intervals , rasikas will have a feeling of lapse of concentration and go into a talking/lack of attention mode. Last year I discovered that , this year I am correcting that.

Needless to say , go to this sabha in egmore!!!

Attn Vgvindan sir(only),
What is your say on Shri Neyveli SanthAnagOpalan? Does he understand the expressions of thyagarAja krithi atleast in a scale of 7 out of 10. I have a feeling you will love him, especially after hearing the umAbharanam && jayanthashri.I could take all the notes of even a telugu krithi . I am interested in knowing your opinion.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 22 Dec 2006, 15:19

rajeshnat wrote:Most of the time the depth and melody is mutually exclusive, that is truth let us accept it(few exceptions are indeed there ).

to me both are independent. & not mutually exclusive.

rajeshnat wrote:bhAvam is actually a very natural,original and truthtful expression of musician centered around his/her mood

i agree with definition but you have to define depth also before you can call them mutually exclusive.

if you mean kalyani, kambodi, bhairavi, shankarabaranam are deep , then does it mean there is no bhavam in those ragas.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 22 Dec 2006, 16:14

rajumds
You are recollecting my 12th std probability in maths. I am wrong , independent and mutually exclusive do not mean the same .Tx for your subtle and nice correction.

To be precise depth is elaboration.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 22 Dec 2006, 16:25

rajeshnat wrote:To be precise depth is elaboration.

true. many a time for the sake of elaboration , beauty & bhavam are given a back seat

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 22 Dec 2006, 17:06

rajumds wrote:
rajeshnat wrote:To be precise depth is elaboration.
true. many a time for the sake of elaboration , beauty & bhavam are given a back seat

If depth or melody is not truthfully expressed at that time on that concert, you will get that feeling of as hyperactive or hypoactive bhAvam. So in essence bhAvam is cause , melody & depth are the effects of the cause.

Why don't you try defining beauty??
I am just getting a feeling that english word beauty means too many things . I don't want to pull any triggers here???When you define beauty , try defining without overlaping with bhAvam, melody and depth.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 22 Dec 2006, 18:08

Looks like this is going to develop into a
Terence Hill -Bud Spencer Classic duel , going on until the Sun sets in the background , as a magnificent Orange Ball.

Here is something you may like to read, whenever you need to catch some breath !

Art finds her own perfection within and not outside of, herself.. She is not to be judged by any external standards of resemblance. She is a veil, rather than a mirror. She has flowers that no forests know of, birds that no woodland possesses. She makes and unmakes many worlds, and can draw the moon from heaven with a scarlet threadâ€¦â€¦
Oscar Wilde in the Decay of Lying

And here is a track that explains it all over again -

Makelara by Neyveli Santhangopalan
http://www.rogepost.com/n/7604626109

Everytime I listen to this , many images float past---

lazy weekday afternoons .... Santhanagopalans's Silver Plus nestling in the shade of a HIG flat in KK Nagar... Thanjavur Sankara Iyers honeyed promptings , and a Future Vidwan's experiments with the pace of singing...

and me ,
sunk on my chair , listening to all this glorious stuff .

My advice to both of you is:
It is hopeless to express what you are trying to define.
Each man to his own image.And Glory be to the artist who invokes these feelings in so many minds with just a song...

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 22 Dec 2006, 21:17

all that i wanted to say was that depth & bhavam are independent and they can co exist. when rajeshnat said that he means elobaration as depth , i just made a general remark on that.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 27 Dec 2006, 20:12

What is your say on Shri Neyveli SanthAnagOpalan? Does he understand the expressions of thyagarAja krithi atleast in a scale of 7 out of 10. I have a feeling you will love him, especially after hearing the umAbharanam && jayanthashri.I could take all the notes of even a telugu krithi . I am interested in knowing your opinion.

rajeshnat,
As Kutcheri Reviews and Recordings generally refer to Musical aspects and myself not being knowledgeable in Music, I skip these posts. Therefore, I missed your post too. Though I have responded to your e-mail bringing your post to my notice, I beg to state to others thru this thread that the postings by me under 'Rendering of kritis' is purely from lyrical angle. If by any chance I have conveyed the impression that I know music, I may kindly be pardoned.
Regarding Bhava, it is an experience which varies from person to person depending on one's own general state of mind. As Subrahmanya Bharati points out, Carnatic music

... songs usually portray devotion and love and not other emotions like courage, anger, wonder, fear, and hatred ...

In order to appreicate the devotion and love in our songs, the heart of the listener is to be full. The same applies to the musician too.
Sri Thyagaraja points out 'kAmini vESa dhAriki sAdhvI naDatal(E)maina telusunA' in the kRti rAma nIyeda - rAga kharahara priya, "Can a person playing the role of a woman know anything about the conduct of a chaste woman?". The musician no matter how knowledgeable in music, cannot bring out the bhAva unless he becomes one with the character (the lyricist).
Great actors and dancers like Bala Saraswati - become one with the Character and they can bring tears to the eyes of audience. But, yet they remain actors. Therefore, the real bhAva would continue to elude the musicians unless they pursue nAdOpAsana as did by Saint Thyagaraja and others.

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 07 Sep 2009, 01:29

vgvindan wrote: The musician no matter how knowledgeable in music, cannot bring out the bhAva unless he becomes one with the character (the lyricist).
Great actors and dancers like Bala Saraswati - become one with the Character and they can bring tears to the eyes of audience. But, yet they remain actors. Therefore, the real bhAva would continue to elude the musicians unless they pursue nAdOpAsana as did by Saint Thyagaraja and others.

Not to disagree with anything vgvindan has said in his piercingly insightful comment (above) on involvement in a kriti, but it struck me that vgvindan is making a case for more CM artists to compose their own kritis! It may be hard or impossible to feel as the original lyricist did but what if the performer and the lyricist are the same? Why are there so few vaggeyakaras amongst the CM concert performers?

-Then Paanan

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 07 Sep 2009, 12:30

Then paanan: Interesting question. Obviously, Sri. Govindan is referring to the ideal. Sri. MDR had expressed a similar sentiment about deeply feeling the main emotional content of a song by becoming one with it. In the West, the so called singer-songwriters belong to the category you mention and they do talk about writing and singing what they feel in their soul. But that tradition does not exist for the most part in today's CM among professional musicians.

At a slightly different level, I think performer's 'anubhavam' comes with age and experience. One can sense the difference in quality of a perormance when the performer is deep in his own 'anubhavam'. As Sri. Govindan righty says, the rasikas have to be prepared mentally to participate with the performer.

Sahitya induced bhAvam is one aspect of the total bhAvam of a musical piece. Thyagaraja excelled at matching the melodic bhava and laya bhava with sahitya bhava for maximum effect. For example, in koluvamare kadA-tODi, the word Chinthamani is given just the right melodic and laya treatment by Thyagaraja. The melody source of course is thodi's bountiful aesthetics and the laya treatment is the choice on which vowel-ending syllable to provide the kArvai and stress in 'Chinthamani" for maximum emotional infusement. Thyagaraja hits bull's eye on all three counts. It is very hard to do that again and again.
That may explain what you are rightfully wondering about, as to why there are not enough composers among performing musicians.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Sep 2009, 20:06

Thenpaanan,
I am glad you brought back what VG has said after long interval. Though the concert review is from a few years ago, it is true that NSG's music is bhAvam-based music. He also composes.

VK,
You speak about western musicians. In my case too, songs are not compositions in the sense that they are deliberately composed. They are expressions from my soul (I use that expression because I don't know how else to put it). If you remember, Sangeet Rasik, the classical composer of merit on the forum was not satisfied with my saying something to this effect. He stressed that a composition has to be 'built up'. Sorry SR that I cannot quote you. My ability to search from the past posts is abysmal.
Though I am not a singer in the professional sense, I have spent my life singing, to myself mostly! So, yes, what you sing out from the soul with joy 'becomes' compositions, at least for me...