Vijay Siva, Kalpadruma Arts Festival

[rbharath]

Vijay Siva - Amrita Murali - J Vaidhyanathan - Anirudh Athreya - Narayanan & Vigneshwaran (tambura)

Kalpadruma Arts Festival
Sivagami Pettachi Auditorum
23 Sept 2012, 6 pm

chalamEla - shankarAbaraNam - aTa tAlam [varNam]
sabhApatikku - AbhOgi - rUpakam - GKB (NS)
Emi dOva balkumA - sArangA - Adi - T (RS)
gandharvAmara chitta cAraNa vadhu - slOkam in yadhukula kAmbhOji
kAmAkshi - yadhukula kAmbhOji - misra cApu - SS
cintayE mahAlinga mUrtim - paras - Adi - MD
koluvamArE gadA - tODi - Adi - T (RNST)
RTP - mOhanam - kaNDa tripuTa tisra naDai, 2 akshara eDuppu, 5 akshara aridi
"mOhana rAmayyA samayamidhE karuNa jUDavayyA"
tam adbutam - slOkam in mAyA mALava gauLa, kapi, nIlAmbari
mAdhava mAmava dEvA - nIlAmbari - Adi - NT
ninaippadeppO nenjE - nAdanAmakriyA - Adi - Vedanayagam Pillai
Dasa Sloki of Adi Sankara - rAgamAlikA
pAdi madi nadi - kharaharapriyA - Thiruppugazh
nI nAma rUpamulaku
svasti prajApya - saurAshTram

[rupavathi]

Couple of minor corrections: the Tiruppugazh is "pAti mati nadi..." referring to the half-moon or crescent (pAti mati) and the river Ganga (nadi) on Shiva's forehead. And the last one is 'prajAbhya'

[keerthi]

rUpavati,

I am curious, why do you correct the tiruppugazh to pAti mati when it is not pronounced that way. It is pronounced pAdi-madi nadi isn't it..?

The verse sung before the swarajati is gandharvAmara-siddha-cAraNa-vadhU-.. I hope Vijay Shiva sang it that way.

[mahavishnu]

I have to agree with Keerthi.
Rupavati, if we applied your logic consistently, then it would be "pAti mati nati". And that does not make phonetic sense.

We might have to change your handle to rUpavadi

[srikant1987]

Agree with Keerthi about 'pAdi' certainly. If 'madi' comes from Sanskrit 'mati' (don't see how!) then there is a case for spelling and pronouncing it that way in the tiruppugazh.

The word mati for opinion / intelligence / brain is also borrowed into Southern languages, where I feel it should be kept as 'mati' without "softening" the t to a d. But then I can't think of saying 'nimmati'.

[RaviSri]

madi is sure derived from mati but in Tamil for ages we have been pronouncing it as madi. The tiruppugazh is most certainly pAdi madi nadi.

[ramanathan]

I think the confusion arises from the fact that the same letter is used in tamizh for 'ta' and 'da', as opposed to languages like Sanskrit, Malayalam or Hindi where there are distinct letters for each. I guess Rupavati is trying to point out that it should be "पाति मति नदि" (Sanskrit / Hindi) or "പാതി മതി നദി" (Malayalam) and that does make sense. Listen carefully to renditions like that of Dr. S. Ramanathan and one can make out the subtle difference.

[Purist]

This ta and da / ka and ga (letters) have umpteen casualties. Kaada of Telugu being pronounced gaada (eg in Kaligiyunte)
Telasu pronounced Delasu (eg manasuloni , dari nee etc). It is invariably artists from TN who are responsible for this,
and strangely this has gone uncorrected for decades.

[sureshvv]

It is invariably artists from TN who are responsible for this,

May I respectfully point out that the artistes from Southern Tamilnadu are much more prone to fail the "padma" test than their northern counterparts?

[keerthi]

Ramanathan,

The first thing we require of a transliteration scheme is that it be consistent. This can be in two ways - it could be consistent with the script of the language(orthographic), or that it be consistent to the pronunciation scheme of the language (phonemic).

Ma. ca. cuppuletcumi is an example for the former, while ma. sha. subbulakshmi illustrates the latter. rupavatis example wasn't consistent in either these ways, as mahavishnu pointed out.

Isn't it funny to invoke the number of ka/ga-s in malayalam, hindi or sanskrit, when we are talking about the transliteration/ transcription of tamil words. The words are pAdi and madi, not pAti and mati, which is how prof S.Ramanathan has sung them as well. It isn't and shouldn't be पाति मति नदि.

Ravisri,

madi for moon in the tamizh-malayalam-kannaDa is quite definitely of non-sanskRt origin. It isn't related to the sanskRt mati (for intellect, memory etc).


srikant,

If a word from sanskRt is used in a tamizh song, will you pronounce it the way it is pronounced in sanskRt? What about the phonological principles of Tamizh? Should it be pronounced kODi-kODi or kOTi-kOTi..?

Doesn't each language also apply it's indigenous principle of pronunciations to the words it borrows. Would we enjoin a bangali to pronounce it as patitOddhAriNi gange! as opposed to the form potitOddhAriNi gonge?

The word mati for opinion / intelligence / brain is also borrowed into Southern languages, where I feel it should be kept as 'mati' without "softening" the t to a d.

Should we sing OsOsi nA mati..?

and finally purist,

while bad pronunciation of telugu or tamil or sanskRt is sad, and gets many of us worked up{we have a whole thread dedicated to this}, the examples you cite are problematic.

Singing paNDu rIdi is irrefutably wrong, whether it is a Tn artiste or a singer from any part of the planet. But telusu getting softened to delusu and kAda becoming gAdA [both by virtue of the words preceding them] are part of a pattern intrinsic to telugu. It is claimed to be one of the features that makes telugu sound sweet.

This replacement of the karkaSa (unvoiced) consonants with the mRdu (voiced) cognates is not just a feature of telugu. It is seen in SanskRt and in Tamizh, in different contexts. jagat + Isha is never pronounced jagatIsha in SanskRt. It is always jagadIsha. Similarly sendamizh and never sentamizh.

[srikant1987]

But telusu getting softened to delusu and kAda becoming gAdA [both by virtue of the words preceding them] are part of a pattern intrinsic to telugu. It is claimed to be one of the features that makes telugu sound sweet.

ABSOLUTELY!

I get irritated by "over-corrections" in this respect by some singers (I think native Telugu singers are somewhat susceptible there).

[mahavishnu]

The words are pAdi and madi, not pAti and mati, which is how prof S.Ramanathan has sung them as well. It isn't and shouldn't be पाति मति नदि.

Keerthi is absolutely correct. Here is a sample clip of Dr. S. Ramanathan's classic version with MSG and Karaikudi Mani (posted for academic purposes only). http://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubram ... -madi-nadi

The phoneme "di" is consistent across all three utterances in the first line.

[Lakshman]

mati in samskrt means intelligence.
In this context, pAdi mati nadi doesn't make sense. The pallavi line of this song is:

pAdi madi nadi pOdum aNisadai nAthAr AruLiya kumArEsha

From the little tamil I know, it seems to me that the line refers to Shiva who is adorned by pAd madi (half moon) and nadi (ganga).... I may be wrong.