up keep of toilets in Sabhas

ravi429 · Post by **ravi429** » 25 Dec 2007, 16:41

I recently happened to attend a music programme at Naradha Gana sabha., during when I went to the toilet to attend the cal of naturel. I am so sorry to point out that the toilet was very poorly maintained.. The urinal water tap was running dry and the place was smelling. I decided not to use the facility, as i was afraid of catching infection. I am really surprised, as to how these essential details, such as hygenie surroundings, especially the toilet, has escaped the attention of the Committee members.

I also had a chance of attending a music programmes at music acadamey and wish to point out that the toilet facilities provided there are of international standards.

Hope, you will agrree with me that there are many visitors from other developed countries attending the music programmes during this season. You can just imagine the impression they would carry with them.

Hope you would take this suggestion in the right perspective and do the needful in the matter.

Regards,

R.Ravendran

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 26 Dec 2007, 02:02

There's another thread going on in which you'll find this topic going on, and many agreeing with you.

There was one last year too, in which it got more than a mention. Furthermore, it even found its way into one of the daily newspapers (I suspect the hand of one of our members?)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 26 Dec 2007, 02:47

Every problem is an opportunity for a business man. May be there is one here as well. I just thought of this. We/someone can make and sell a toilet kit: An aerosol quick acting cleaner/sanitizer/deodorant and this widely available anti-bacterial hand-cleaning gel. The first one, though existing in some form, has to be customized for this kind of sabha situations, should be small enough to be portable and carried conspicously. In fact it can be made in single/double use containers. I think people will pay Rs. 20-Rs 50 for a single or double use if it does the job. ( in musical swarakshara parlance, the product can be named suddha Manidhan

)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 26 Dec 2007, 20:37

I admire your ingenuity, VK, but applying the "appropriate technology" thinking to this, better a mop and a bucket of phenyl (phenol?) solution!

Regretably, If you'll forgive the mental image this may give you, there is a point of unsanitory saturation beyond which the application of disinfectants just gives an even more unpleasant blend to the nose.

The only answer (oh, pain to the sabbha treasurer) is stripping out all that old stone and concrete and starting again!

basumani · Post by **basumani** » 30 Dec 2007, 13:26

I fully agree with ravi 429 about the Narada gana sabha. I have just become a member of the sabha and I am sorry to note that the management of the sabha is interested only in making money . The toilets are very badly maintained and stinking. I brought to the notice of some of the managing committee members but they just do not seem to bother. I plan to bring this up in the Annual general body meeting. If any of the readers are members please support me. Also they are overissuing tickets and have created problems for those who attend regularly.

ravi429 · Post by **ravi429** » 30 Dec 2007, 22:24

Thank you Nick H for pointing out about another thread. I was not aware. I wonder,why even after so many people has written about it, nothing has happened?

One more inetresting aspect in Naradha Gana sabha is,with so many NRI's visiting, they do not have western closets!!!
But not a sinlgle speech of sabha secretary ends without a note that, the sabha has grown up only because of the support of rasikas. We like fools clap endlessly.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Dec 2007, 22:28

At the top right hand corner of each page, there is a link for 'printable version'. Click on it, print it and send it to Secretary of the Naradha Gana Sabha. ( and other sabhas where this problem is severe. Also send the contents of other Sabha toilet related threads ). Any local volunteers?

ravi429 · Post by **ravi429** » 30 Dec 2007, 22:44

Thank you vasanthaKilam. I shall do that. I will also be sending it to Kutcheribuzz ans sruti.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 31 Dec 2007, 01:43

Thank you Nick H for pointing out about another thread...

I think this is a subject which should always be dealt with afresh!

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 31 Dec 2007, 05:22

Nick H....have you ever taken up this matter directly with the authorites of any sabha recently ? Tell you what, coming from a foreigner, any such complaints will receive more than its due share of respect from these authories as they still suffer hangover from yester years. You can also see the evidence of such behaviour from our Air India hostesses in their flights. Let other rasiks benefit from your active protests !!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 31 Dec 2007, 08:15

Sam,
Good suggestion, but you have to meet Nick to see how much of an indian gent he is to behold. What's more, he has even caught on to the indian way of quipping. To top it all, his gentle ways may not 'wash' with those tough organizers of sabhas

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 31 Dec 2007, 08:50

On a serious note, those hundred rupee notes we shell out for each of the several performances at these august sabhas don't help even a tiny bit in implementing hygiene.Either it was an overwhelming smell of phenol or the essence of urine. As the season progressed, it was the latter. And remember, as you have to walk along the toilets or on the other edge of the driveway, with cars constantly passing by, you were hit with inhaling the smell one way or the other. The other edge had the 'outdoor toilet' smell!
Once in a while, when I see a beautifully adorned bharatanatyam dancer on stage, I ponder on the state of the beauty and cleanliness which stares me in the eye in the not so beautiful outside.
The interior of the hall needs to be discussed too. We talk about a string of concerts in the season affecting the voice of singers, and the weather and the dust outside. The dust that stays merrily on stage, invisible though, does not seem to be taken care of in many sabhas. With carpets (jamakkALams), huge curtains, etc. I would be glad if an industrial size vacuum cleaner AND diligent cleaners are employed with the money we spend on those tickets...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 31 Dec 2007, 13:26

Arasi... long ago I gave up on the 'stand-in-line-and-keep-quiet' attitude that I was brought up with in 1950s England, and if you saw some of my dealings with my builder (errr.... ex-builder) you wouldn't think me so gentle

But, just as I now try to take the constant bad audience behaviour as a sort of yogic excercise to remain calm and concentrated on the music, rather than picking fights with people, I have rather given up on certain other aspects too.

Sam, I don't think I'd get anywhere at all.

The fact is that people still come; still pay their money; so these organisers are simply not bothered.

If there are two avenues of complaint that might be effective, the main one is, as someone has posted, complaint from within the membership. Howver, my experience of committe-run organisations is that unpopular opinions are quickly and effectively side-lined.

The other is the newspapers.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 13 May 2008, 18:52

On Sunday I attended Naradha Gana sabha for the first time in quite a while.

Visiting the toilet, I was astonished to find everything clean and new! What a delight!

Congratulations to the trustees, and, if rasikas.org might have played some small, tiny part in this, then congratulations also to those who have spoken out on this issue.

But there should be no rest for good subversives: Where should the next refit happen?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 May 2008, 20:08

A happy ending to a story. Our praises to the Sabha organizers for achieving it!
Or, should I say, 'happy beginning'? I do not wish for the 'blissful' state to end

Nick, thank you for mentioning this. What we wished for has happened...

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 13 May 2008, 22:04

sastri hall should be the next target, haha

that toilet in the green room upstairs is just... ugh

if you can brave that, you can face anything

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 May 2008, 02:26

sankirnam,
You mean, the facility for the artistes is such? For the performers to give us a good fare, even if the 'green room' is not inspiring (I know what an old hall it is), the least you can do for them is to keep the toilet clean!
This is where the organizers and the sponsors come in. Before they give that advance for the hall, they should make it clear that if the the toilet facilities, the hall and the jamakkALams (spreads) are not clean, a particular amount would be deducted from the final payment. Difficult as it may seem, if every organizer who rents the halls makes it a point to insist on it, the sabhas might start paying attention...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 May 2008, 03:20

I don't think there is any provision for the public at that hall, is there?

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 14 May 2008, 05:57

If the organizers cannot do anything them selves about the clean upkeep of the toilets , they can at least hand over the job to private organizations, who will do a satisfactory job. Unfortunately in most of the public utility organisations and govt offices, the same problem prevails. let us also think of the unfortunate people who rush to the toilets in the comparments of the passenger trains ,when they stop at stations to get a small bucket of water! gobilalitha

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 14 May 2008, 07:15

At Sastri Hall, the public toilets are outside-you have to go downstairs and then left as you exit the building

But yea the artists' toilet next to the green room is just foul, i mean when you're sitting in the green room the stench comes from the bathroom, its pretty strong and it is nauseating.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 14 May 2008, 07:48

sankirnam wrote:But yea the artists' toilet next to the green room is just foul, i mean when you're sitting in the green room the stench comes from the bathroom, its pretty strong and it is nauseating.

How come the artists are not complaining?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 May 2008, 12:46

Thanks for the directions, Sankirnam.

Although it is a small hall, they do present major artists, and I'm surprised that nobody has complained. Also when the hall is used for more private functions like arangetrams, there might be less worry about offending the powers that be and give concerts.

They have invested a considerable amount, too, in installing AC units.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 14 May 2008, 16:01

rshankar wrote:
sankirnam wrote:But yea the artists' toilet next to the green room is just foul, i mean when you're sitting in the green room the stench comes from the bathroom, its pretty strong and it is nauseating.
How come the artists are not complaining?

Hahaha ..... hvng known its status we hardly spend any time inside the Sastri Hall Green (stink) room.

JB

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 14 May 2008, 19:20

unfortunately ,scarcity of water is the main reason.. WITH such an indifferent state of watersupply, how can cleanliness be expected?. I have heard of instances, when bathershave completely soaped their bodies, happily singing one or two songs in their karna kadoora voices, the taps suddenly go dry...Where there is water ,there is tissue only gobilalitha

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 14 May 2008, 19:59

If the state of the toilet in question in this particular hall is due to water scarcity, I really hope that this is one of the concert halls where there is no canteen, for I shudder to think of the health hazzards that food cooked/served in such circumstances can pose!

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 14 May 2008, 20:43

The installation of the AC units was one of the most inane decisions I have seen by the hall owners. Sastri Hall got more than enough ventilation from the windows, and it used to be perfect when they were opened. Now with the AC, its like an arctic blast, I have had my extremities numbed more than once by the coldness.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 May 2008, 22:28

Having AC is one thing; setting the levels correctly is quite another. Using it sensibly to create comfort levels of temperature and humidity is a lot kinder on the electric bill than trying to turn halls into fridges, too. That is an aspect that the owners should be very sensitive too!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 May 2008, 00:31

Nick,
How true! While the Music Academy has great sound and clean toilets, the air conditioning setting is rather high, atleast with some of the units, I think. The french couple who are there every season were ticked off by it (they are not from the hot plains but from cold old Paris!). I saw her in shawls and even a cape once, shivering and complaining.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 15 May 2008, 02:18

Don't you know - using very low temp settings for A/C is a long-held Indian tradition.

Just try travelling by A/C sleeper, and you will almost freeze to death. I always get two sets of blankets for these journeys.
We Indians certianly want value for money!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 May 2008, 09:21

Ah so! Makes sense since I have heard it once from the performers that the stage area was freezing in Petachi Hall!
What a treat it would be to have the AC in full blast in Chennai in thesummer!
Sabha hopping makes me think of the three bears story: this chair is too hard, this one too deep, this one utterly uncomfortable; this hall is cold, this hall colder and this one is the coldest!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 May 2008, 15:50

Indeed I'm aware of the AC tradition. In fact I argue with my wife about it almost every day!

I recall a visit from a neighbour, who, on seeing my AC set to 30C, exclaimed, "That isn't AC! It's a fan, only!".

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 May 2008, 20:27

If you are in DC and have an AC,
What would your setting be?
DESi or paradESi? You see,
It's could be a decision of a mind set
Or one which minds the setting.

manvantara · Post by **manvantara** » 15 May 2008, 20:33

Heh, I too have noticed that sometimes in sabhas in Madras, it feels really cold - no one seems to adjust the temperature (based on the number of people in the auditorium). If only they'd realize how much energy can be actually saved by setting the temperature at an optimal level (based on outside temp, number of people in the auditorium,etc), I am sure they'd do the needful.

The opposite is true of desis in the US - I find that almost at everyone's home, the heater temperature is set really high! It is almost always at 72-74 deg F plus and that makes my ears red and sometimes my nose bleed. :/
At our home we set it to about 60 deg F (about 16 deg C) (which others find freezing) but that is the temperature we are all comfortable with (including our toddler).

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 15 May 2008, 20:40

Even at singapore Esplanade centre, one of the most delightful auditoriums(English professors to correct,if it is auditoria) of the world,I was shivering sitting inside the auditorium,because the ac temperature was very low. I could not concentrate on the wonderful fluterecital of the legend CHAURASIA IN MARCH. SOME OF THEM HAD COME WITH OVERCOATS , SCARFS ETC AS IF THEY WERE GOING TO ALASKA .. GOBILALITHA

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 15 May 2008, 21:29

another great indian tradition is the 'Video coach'
I had the misfortune of travelling from Chennai to Bengaluru by one of these monstrosities. Whole night they had this horrible series of Tamil movies in full blast. Amazingly, fellow passengers seemed to be happy to watch this stuff!
Value for the money, I say.

(the loudness level at some sabhas is not very dissimilar - pantuvarali and lathangi sound the same.

)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 May 2008, 00:49

Din is a din is a din--there are no svara bhEdams therein!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 May 2008, 01:19

arasi wrote:Din is a din is a din--there are no svara bhEdams therein!

Unless it features as 'd(h)in d(h)in tA':P

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 May 2008, 01:45

Even then, Din (english) tAn (tamizh)!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 May 2008, 01:46

I'm so lost I'm waiting for Dim Sum here!

But I think it's non-veg, so I've probably come to the wrong place

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 16 May 2008, 03:10

Looks like the punny people are back at it again!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 May 2008, 06:39

Nick,
You know enough tabla and tamizh to understand it. You are sharp too, unlike 'dim some'

thAn (the beat) and tAn is 'only' in tamizh as you know. 'adu tAn'=it is that only (emphatically).

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 May 2008, 08:09

ragam-talam,
One pun has spun many a pun, and it is fun!
Sorry, can't stop

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 May 2008, 17:09

Alas, the Western beat goes
dumb, dumb, dumb
on the big base drum!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 16 May 2008, 19:18

Rasikas going from sound of music to sound of WC

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 16 May 2008, 19:34

What room/Hall temperature is good for singing? I believe a warm 72 or 75 will be good.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 May 2008, 19:54

VKRAMAN,
Actually, it was all close to music, our dabbling in words and verse, straying 'away' from the name of the thread!
While straying away from the subject is not commendable, it nevertheless has a positive side to it --that we do not think in a compartmentalized way!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 16 May 2008, 21:30

Actually, I think that in this thread, it was the sound of music that distracted us from the subject of WC!