Song is the high road into the mind of a bird

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
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coolkarni
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Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 06:42

Post by coolkarni »

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... en0018.htm

A Beautiful Essay

And a lovely track to go along with it
http://rapidshare.com/files/114612780/0 ... na-Rtp.mp3
There is something essentially truthful about birdsong, and the more truthful it is, as Keats always argued, the more beautiful, indeed divine
So true of Mali's Music
Last edited by coolkarni on 13 May 2008, 20:39, edited 1 time in total.

vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

You can't sing? You come here expecting to learn the fine art of sculpting and you cannot sing? Doesn't the study of all art begin with singing? We have much work to do. Let's see, we shall start with the note "do" and "re"..."
Traditional story, as told by Ali Akbar Khan in
"The Classical Music of North India"
http://www.spiritsound.com/sing/sculpt1.html

No wonder, Sri Thyagaraja says -
sItA vara sangIta jnAnamu dhAta vrAyavalerA - dEvagAndhAri
(knowledge of music should have been ordained)

Did he say this for persons like me?

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Dear Sri.Kulkarni & Sri.V.Govindan,
Since you are discussing birds & singing & Mali you might find this account of some interest I hope...
When I started my web site almost 15 years back I got an email from a Japanese gentleman from TOKYO asking me permission to download the video of Mali's last concert- tho' it was available for down loading without any permission etc; shows how refined the Japanese are-. He wrote that every morning he woke up to Mali's Flute & actually outside the window there was a bird which came, sat there & listened to Mali's flute!....and flew away as soon as the song was over! He also said they had an informal Mali Group of close to sixty- all Japanese- etc...I still find it astounding! vkv
Last edited by cacm on 14 May 2008, 00:14, edited 1 time in total.

arunk
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Post by arunk »

Am I the only one who is blind or are those stupid cats on rapidshare really too obscure for most people to figure out the proper code to download anything?

Arun

Suji Ram
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Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 00:04

Post by Suji Ram »

arunk wrote:Am I the only one who is blind or are those stupid cats on rapidshare really too obscure for most people to figure out the proper code to download anything?

Arun
you have to look at only cats as there are dogs as well :)

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

I find my mac displays the 'cats' better than a PC!

vgvindan
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Joined: 13 Aug 2006, 10:51

Post by vgvindan »

John Baily, one of Europe’s greatest authorities on the musical culture of Afghanistan, brought a recording of English nightingale song and played it to some Afghan refugee musicians living in Pakistan. They were immediately excited. First they responded to the taped bird song using the ‘drum language’ of spoken bhols in which players speak the patterns they later play on the tabla. Although no one had noticed it before, the bird’s phrases fit right into the sixteen beat recurring tintal cycle that is the most popular of rhythms in that part of the world. Dha Ti Ta Dha | Ti Ta Dha Ti | Dha Dha Ti Ta | Dha Dha Tu Na. Then they got out their tabla drums and rebab violin to jam along with the tape. To the drummers the nightingale’s phrase was a fully stuctured tabla solo, easy to assimilate and respond to. But their tradition had not explicitly made use of nightingale rhythms before.
Once upon a day Qamar went to Darband, a scenic place near Tehran, to take a walk and practice in the open air. Qamar started singing Tahrir-e Bolboli while she was walking among the trees. A nightingale sitting on a branch heard her beautiful song, and he began to sing along. The nightingale was trying to sing like Qamar, and Qamar was trying to sing like the nightingale, just as singers and players meld together in traditional Persian music. The fever rose as they each tried to sing faster and louder. Suddenly the nightingale fell down and died, because it could not keep up with thie great Qamar. Qamar cried deeply for two days. She could not forgive herself for having killed a bird with music. Was all this beauty and intensity nothing more than a fight to the death?
http://www.ecobooks.com/books/whybirdssing.htm

coolkarni
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Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 06:42

Post by coolkarni »

vkv
Your flashbacks are bits of stardust we latch on to..
Please do let us know more.
I lost a great deal of my prime time in my life , ignoring the likes of Mali. MDR,Kalyanraman,Balchander,TRS,Somu...
I Hope youngsters of newer generations do not make the same mistake.
The mistake of hearing a few lousily produced commercial albums and making up their minds about the artists.

BTW this tape had a label that it was Dwaram Venkataswami Naidu who was accompanying.
Wonder if the labelling was a mistake (instead of writing Mangathayaru) or whether Dwaram Senior did really accompany Mali at any point.
Please do keep writing.
The feeling -when we read your posts- that we all get is something similar to standing on the plaform of a small, yet humble railway platform and watch a beautiful train pass us , in all its glory.
We can now only hope to see it receding against the backdrop of a glorious sunset .
Will something so glorious, keep happening ?
Paint the sunset for us ,as many times as you wish .. We will play our mp3s against this backdrop, and live , what you have lived.
Last edited by coolkarni on 14 May 2008, 07:16, edited 1 time in total.

cacm
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Post by cacm »

Dear Sri. Coolkarni,
I wish I HAD your genuine poetry while writing prose! very moving!........... I will try to share my memories which I find I cannot erase from my mind & they all look like they happened only yesterday!. & my 50 years in USA has not changed anything & I wander every year to these places when I come to Chennai those spots!...
Let me start with the tape you are referring to.
I know for a fact that Mali had great reverence for Dwaram & Pappa V whom he placed at Gurusthanam. Dwaram ( who used to live near Ice House Iin Triplicane--I was lucky to go to his house before he went to concerts. He & LGJ both used to practise very special & specific things they were planning to play in that day's concert!- has told me that under very special circumstances like a concert in his home town, Vijayanagaram & some places in Andhra etc he did accompany others. So based on his closeness to Mali (whose admiration for Dwaram was sky high) I think it could indeed could have been Dwaram v. who accompanied Mali in the tape you are referring to. Mali has used all the other Dwarams in his concerts in Madras out of respect for Dwaram v.
Let me conclude this post with a Mali Happening. When N.V.Subramanian(Saraswathi & S Vaggeykara Trust) a class mate of mine from 4th class were Students in M.C.C. Tambaram( We both grew up there also) we arranged a Mali Concert there. I was in the Cricket team & had persuaded Dr. A.J.Boyd our legendary Principal to attend & preside etc. Mali came & just before the concert told me he was not in the mood & wanted me to go to the mike & tell the audience in Anderson Hall close to a thousand that Mali cannot play that evening! I told Mali that if I said it I would be stoned to death on the spot. But if he went & explained they would understand. He went to the mike after some persuasion & told the audience he always wanted to give his best & if he played that evening it would be a Terrible concert. He said an artist cannot suddenly & honestly switch on at 7 P.M. on a Friday for a concert! He asked the audience to return to the same hall next week at same time & promised he will somehow get in the proper mood & play a great concert. Every one left & the next week they all returned too! To that Over flow crowd he played for over 4 hours & the "ksheera Sagara Sayana" is still ringing in my years! He like the Hall so much he voluntarily asked to play there every year; I left for usa in a few years & i do not know how many years it continued!
I cannot emphasise enough that the GREAT ONES i was very fortunate to interact with-- it took me 10 years before I could open my mouth in their presence- were so great & sympathetic they put you at ease & in peace & explained anything you wanted to know! I will write a couple of similar stories about those greats if you find this interesting & worthwhile....let me know....I feel a strong kinship to you & I know of you but have never met you. Hope we will this Dec in Chennai. REGS, VKV
Last edited by cacm on 14 May 2008, 08:18, edited 1 time in total.

chalanata
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Post by chalanata »

and finally vkv and coolkarni are beginning to discover each other.....

Suji Ram
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Post by Suji Ram »

Great clip Coolkarni! Thanks

knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

A perennial favorite of mine - what a classic!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_xXPzE7Vau0&feature=related

vgvindan
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Post by vgvindan »

He went to the mike after some persuasion & told the audience he always wanted to give his best & if he played that evening it would be a Terrible concert. He said an artist cannot suddenly & honestly switch on at 7 P.M. on a Friday for a concert! He asked the audience to return to the same hall next week at same time & promised he will somehow get in the proper mood & play a great concert.
How refreshing this statement is against the straight-jacketed concert format imposed on the musicians now-a-days!

IMHO, this is also the secret of success of HM musicians. I had in a parallel thread posted an item about Dagar Brothers who would decide at the spur of the moment as to what they are going to sing.

A true artist is indeed a nightingale. How can you ask the bird to sing what and when?
Is there a lesson for the CM artists and rasikas here?
Last edited by vgvindan on 14 May 2008, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.

knandago2001
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Post by knandago2001 »

Pristine Sohini - kuhu kuhu bole koyalia

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/kuhu- ... 2089946699

rshankar
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Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26

Post by rshankar »

Nandagopal,

This was analysed by srkris in great detail. See post #1 in this topic: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=165

It is rAgamAlika of several rAgs....

The same tunes were lifted for the tamizh song 'tIsulAvudE'......

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

Dear Sri. coolkarni, Here's my today's recollection about T.R.S.- You might know this already & I am pharaphrasing & unable to write it as well as he told it!-....
TRS had moved to Andhra Pradesh & rented a room upstairs with a balcony ("Mottai Madi") where he could practise his vocal music; He sang to his heart's content for a week- only Thyagraja Kritis as he thought they would appreciate a telugu composition in A.P. etc- & an elderly gentlemen climbed up the stairs. TRS saluted him & the gentleman said: You sing very well but it would be nice if you sing a few Telugu songs!.....
Of course the reverse side of the coin: N ......i (you can fill in the blanks!) was taught "Choodi kudutha Nachiyar" by LGJ & in the K.G.S. Concert N SANG IT AS: suttukuduttha nachiyar forcing lgj to break up in the concert itself!......So much FOR Linguistic understanding but definitely better than Purushotthama Das Tandon- union minister- who decreed that I.A.S Exam shd. be written in English! in my times.....vkv

coolkarni
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Post by coolkarni »

And for the rest of the day , this cerebral Nightingale must have been humming this song to himself !!

http://rapidshare.com/files/114969487/N ... part_2.mp3

One of the most brilliant neravals. Here .
As ORIGINAL as it can get.
Last edited by coolkarni on 15 May 2008, 06:40, edited 1 time in total.

cacm
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Joined: 08 Apr 2010, 00:07

Post by cacm »

coolkarni wrote:And for the rest of the day , this cerebral Nightingale must have been humming this song to himself !!

http://rapidshare.com/files/114969487/N ... part_2.mp3

One of the most brilliant neravals. Here .
As ORIGINAL as it can get.
Dear C,
I agree! Thanks a million....As Clint Eastwood said: You made my day! vkv

coolkarni
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Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 06:42

Post by coolkarni »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Life ... 048440.cms

A Song and a Bird .
Well .An elephant can also show us the way ,too.
Another fine article.

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

VKV Sir,
I think the concert of N ,you are referring to, was in Music Academy.I remember attending it.
The line was 'choodikkoduththa sudar kodi' iirc.

cacm
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Post by cacm »

Dear Sri. coolkarni,
Fascinating article! As an aside the great composer Puccini apparently used to ride in his carriage just to listen to water flowing across stones in a river (KOOZANGH KALL) many times & is claimed to have incorporated it as part of the music in his operas. Similarly when Toscannini was conducting La mer( the ocean & its waves etc) by French composer Debussy he was not happy with how the orchestra played it. Finally the concert master in desperation asked T what they shd do. T just threw his silk handkerchief up in the air. As it floated down gently he said play it like that! It is said the they understood what he said & the recording indeed captures the "Progressive waves" generated when the waves crash into shore!This was related by T's son who was a high school teacher in NYC....I thought you might appreciate this while many may think its crazy! vkv

coolkarni
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Joined: 22 Nov 2007, 06:42

Post by coolkarni »

I thought you might appreciate this while many may think its crazy
Now many may think"US' Crazy.

Here is an excerpt from the essay 'The maniac" that may interest you.
MODs , though this is a bit too long for comfort , I am using it because of the association of Mysticism (as compared to Religion) in Carnatic Music.
This chapter is purely practical and is concerned with what actually is the chief mark and element of insanity; we may say in summary that it is reason used without root, reason in the void. The man who begins to think without the proper first principles goes mad; he begins to think at the wrong end. And for the rest of these pages we have to try and discover what is the right end. But we may ask in conclusion, if this be what drives men mad, what is it that keeps them sane? By the end of this book I hope to give a definite, some will think a far too definite, answer. But for the moment it is possible in the same solely practical manner to give a general answer touching what in actual human history keeps men sane. Mysticism keeps men sane. As long as you have mystery you have health; when you destroy mystery you create morbidity. The ordinary man has always been sane because the ordinary man has always been a mystic. He has permitted the twilight. He has always had one foot in earth and the other in fairyland. He has always left himself free to doubt his gods; but (unlike the agnostic of to-day) free also to believe in them. He has always cared more for truth than for consistency. If he saw two truths that seemed to contradict each other, he would take the two truths and the contradiction along with them. His spiritual sight is stereoscopic, like his physical sight: he sees two different pictures at once and yet sees all the better for that. Thus he has always believed that there was such a thing as fate, but such a thing as free will also. Thus he believed that children were indeed the kingdom of heaven, but nevertheless ought to be obedient to the kingdom of earth. He admired youth because it was young and age because it was not. It is exactly this balance of apparent contradictions that has been the whole buoyancy of the healthy man. The whole secret of mysticism is this: that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid. The determinist makes the theory of causation quite clear, and then finds that he cannot say "if you please" to the housemaid. The Christian permits free will to remain a sacred mystery; but because of this his relations with the housemaid become of a sparkling and crystal clearness. He puts the seed of dogma in a central darkness; but it branches forth in all directions with abounding natural health. As we have taken the circle as the symbol of reason and madness, we may very well take the cross as the symbol at once of mystery and of health. Buddhism is centripetal, but Christianity is centrifugal: it breaks out. For the circle is perfect and infinite in its nature; but it is fixed for ever in its size; it can never be larger or smaller. But the cross, though it has at its heart a collision and a contradiction, can extend its four arms for ever without altering its shape. Because it has a paradox in its centre it can grow without changing. The circle returns upon itself and is bound. The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travellers.

Symbols alone are of even a cloudy value in speaking of this deep matter; and another symbol from physical nature will express sufficiently well the real place of mysticism before mankind. The one created thing which we cannot look at is the one thing in the light of which we look at everything -- Like the sun at noonday, mysticism explains everything else by the blaze of its own victorious invisibility -- Detached intellectualism is (in the exact sense of a popular phrase) all moonshine; for it is light without heat, and it is secondary light, reflected from a dead world. But the Greeks were right when they made Apollo the god both of imagination and of sanity; for he was both the patron of poetry and the patron of healing. Of necessary dogmas and a special creed I shall speak later. But that transcendentalism by which all men live has primarily much the position of the sun in the sky. We are conscious of it as of a kind of splendid confusion; it is something both shining and shapeless, at once a blaze and a blur. But the circle of the moon is as clear and unmistakable, as recurrent and inevitable, as the circle of Euclid on a blackboard. For the moon is utterly reasonable; and the moon is the mother of lunatics and has given to them all her name.
Full Text here
http://www.leaderu.com/cyber/books/orthodoxy/ch2.html
Last edited by coolkarni on 18 May 2008, 12:22, edited 1 time in total.

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