Special Music concert - T.M.Krishna & N.Vijay Siva - vocal d

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 25 Jun 2009, 22:43

Vocal Duet / Jugalbandi (?) - Sri T.M.Krishna & Sri N Vijay Siva
Venue - Sri Krishna Gana Sabha, Chennai
Time - 6.00pm
Date - 28 June 2008, Sunday

I would love to be there, but can't make it. Hope to hear from others about this concert.

They are scheduled to repeat similar concert in Mumbai during Oct'09

-hari

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 26 Jun 2009, 06:27

Do you know who is singing the carnatic part and who is singing the hindustani part? Or will both sing both styles? I never knew that these artistes combine and give concerts. Fascinating! I haven't gone to many jugalbandhis. I have gone to the Anuradha Sriram-Sriram Parasuram concerts sometimes.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 26 Jun 2009, 06:36

Very exciting news. Hopefully, Vijay may like to share one of the duets with us rasikAs.

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 26 Jun 2009, 06:56

My thinking is that both are singing carnatic..

-hari

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 26 Jun 2009, 08:15

srinivasrgvn wrote:Do you know who is singing the carnatic part and who is singing the hindustani part? Or will both sing both styles? I never knew that these artistes combine and give concerts.

The word 'jugal-bandhi' means 'putting together a pair' or 'twinning'... It was the habit of royal (and some not so royal) patrons to ask two different artists; both vocalists, or both instrumentalists, or one each, to occupy centre stage, and sing turn by turn, occasionally even in tandem...

If chitravIna ravikirAn plays, and O.S.thyagarajan sings; or if he plays while R.K.Srikantan sings; it is still a case of jugalbandhi..

It is more prevalent upcountry to pair up two eminent artistes in a jugal (yugala = pair/twin) and enjoy the art produced by the chemistry they develop..

The name has been borrowed, to describe situations where a UttarAdi and a carnatic musician share the stage..

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 26 Jun 2009, 08:26

keerthi wrote:
srinivasrgvn wrote:Do you know who is singing the carnatic part and who is singing the hindustani part? Or will both sing both styles? I never knew that these artistes combine and give concerts.

If chitravIna ravikirAn plays, and O.S.thyagarajan sings; or if he plays while R.K.Srikantan sings; it is still a case of jugalbandhi..

Well, by that definition and from what I've seen of Srikantan-Ravikiran concerts (I've attended only one though), I wouldn't call that a Jugalbandhi. I would view it as Ravikiran donning the role of accompanist - just that the usual violin is relaced by the Chitravina. He did a fine job accompanying Srikantan in the concert I went to - at Krishna Gana Sabha last year. A Jugalbandhi, atleast according to the above definition may necessitate two 'central' artistes. And in the concert that I went to, Srikantan was the main performer and the rest were accompanists. The rest were all big names anyway - Ravikiran, UKS and Ghatam Kartick.

And btw if I recollect right, TMK-Vijay Siva pair was planned to be held last year at KGS as part of a larger series (something that had violin recitals too from different schools and the like?) and then dropped?

Sathej

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jun 2009, 09:32

Sathej,
I was at Srikantan and Ravikiran's concert last season in Bharath Kalachar. As you say, Ravi Kiran played as an accompanist there as well. Still, I wonder if it is so if the vocalist happens to be someone other than RKS--with his vidvat and age taken into account...

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 26 Jun 2009, 09:42

Arasi,

Yes, I agree about RKS' seniority. With someone else, it might have been more of a 'Jugalbandhi'. Anyway, its only a terminology, I guess.

Sathej

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 26 Jun 2009, 16:03

Yeah. I've seen Ravikiran accompanying Nedunuri. He was just an accompanist. He wasn't a central artiste.
A jugalbandhi, nowadays, is a Hindustani-Carnatic duo performance. This is the most common usage of the word 'jugalbandhi'.

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 26 Jun 2009, 17:13

srinivasrgvn wrote:A jugalbandhi, nowadays, is a Hindustani-Carnatic duo performance. This is the most common usage of the word 'jugalbandhi'.

There probably are more Hindustani-Hindustani jugalbandhis even nowadays. Your understanding may be representative of the common usage of the term in Chennai/ Mylapore .

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 26 Jun 2009, 20:12

sridhar_rang wrote:
srinivasrgvn wrote:A jugalbandhi, nowadays, is a Hindustani-Carnatic duo performance. This is the most common usage of the word 'jugalbandhi'.
There probably are more Hindustani-Hindustani jugalbandhis even nowadays. Your understanding may be representative of the common usage of the term in Chennai/ Mylapore .

Well, you may see the 'Chennai-Mylapore' terms local and absurd but I think Carnatic music is itself defined from Chennai and Mylapore. I mean, even if you have thousands of places where concerts are held, I don't think any of them will even equal the Chennai concerts. Why do NRIs rush back home in December? It is because of the season. Many utsavams may take place all over the world, but none equal the Chennai season. Any gathering of rasikas is incomplete without Chennai rasikas. I can guarantee you that most of the members here are Chennai rasikas. Tamilnadu(especially Chennai) is the only place in the world where carnatic music is celebrated so beautifully. So, the most common usage of words by people would be the Mylapore terms. I don't know if you thought of Mylapore language was biased or abnormal but please don't underestimate Mylapore. If people in Mylapore call something in a specific way, it will have special meanings. I am not creating a controversy nor fighting. I am not saying Mylapore rasikas are the best but they are a different type of people who have much knowledge. So, we must be proud of Mylapore, its people and their usage of words. =)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jun 2009, 21:31

Srgvn,
You say: tamizhnAdu is the only place in the world where CM is celebrated so beautifully.
I would take the word 'only' out and say, 'CM is celebrated in TN, Karnataka, Kerala, Andhra, Maharashtra, Bengal and elsewhere in the world, but more so in Chennai. You Chennai vAsis can take it for granted when you have so much going on all through the year! Who knows? If they did not show the festival on TV, there would be trips to Cleveland too, from India, as in the old days one took pilgrimages to kASi--a long trek

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 27 Jun 2009, 09:53

Yes arasi, I agree with you. Carnatic music is celebrated all over the world, specifically in India but the importance that is given to CM in Tamilnadu, or Chennai, is much more than in other states/countries. I am never saying that Tamilnadu is the only place where concerts and festivals are held. But, it is the only place where CM festivals are celebrated on a large scale. More people come forward to organize, attend and perform in Chennai/TN. That is what I meant. =)

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 27 Jun 2009, 19:43

Srinivasrgvn - agree with you Mylapore is a good place to be for CM rasikas. I would like to move there some day (may be post retirement) for the sheer number of concert listening opportunities it offers. But this does not give Mylaporeans the right to define what is common usage of Hindi/ Urdu words.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 28 Jun 2009, 14:30

Dear Sridhar_rang,
I am never saying that Mylapore people have the right to alter/change the meanings of words. But, if they say something, there will be deeper meanings and significance. That is what I meant. I never proclaim that Mylapore rasikas are the best in the world and what they say is the law. But, mylapore terms are somewhat different and it does take some time to accept the Mylapore musical language. =)

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 28 Jun 2009, 23:46

sridhar_rang wrote:
srinivasrgvn wrote:A jugalbandhi, nowadays, is a Hindustani-Carnatic duo performance. This is the most common usage of the word 'jugalbandhi'.
There probably are more Hindustani-Hindustani jugalbandhis even nowadays. Your understanding may be representative of the common usage of the term in Chennai/ Mylapore .

P'haps that's why the concert was held at T. Nagar

I was there and I thought the main piece Ninnne Nammi naanu - Todi (SS) was quite spell-binding. They sang the kriti together and the effect was grand. Brilliant kalpanaswaras. I didn't take notes to post a full report and hope someone else does. Overall, I wished there had been more jugal -- they did not do much sparring or turn-taking at alapanas until Todi. Songs were sung and then a few rounds of neraval / swaras taking turns incl some class stuff. Ranganayakam was presented in a nice format, every Sangati sung once by each of them -- no improvisation. RKSK was the perfect pick for violin.

I can't sign off witihout mentioning the stampede and completely unintelligent behavior exhibited by the people waiting to get in once the doors opened. I was there from 5.20 pm and there was already a sizable crowd in front of each entrance. About ten to six, the doors opened and an unbelievable level of jostling and pushing was witnessed, even to the extent I was afraid the four-year old child of a friend would get crushed. I was so shocked by this behavior that I called out saying "let's all act like intelligent people" . An elderly gent took exception saying "Oh don't use such adjectives. We are all very anxious to get in" and proceeded to push his way in as though it was perfectly normal. Amazing.

The hall was full, and so were all the plastic chairs and placed outside where people could watch on the closed ckt TV and there were also people seated on mats along the corridors. Due to many pressing commitments at home I had to leave after the main piece.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 29 Jun 2009, 03:54

Probably people were curious to know what the 'jugalbandi' will be like. Luckily 'curiosity did not kill the cat'.

Probably after the 'mArgazhi rAgam', this type of a concert was thought of!

They are slated to perform in mumbai later this year.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jun 2009, 04:49

Always_Evolving,
The scene reminds me of the season. Go in the morning (where it applies) or as early as possible in the evening to get your tickets for star performances, wait outside the closed doors (no lines except in a few venues), wait for the doors to open the jostling crowd and hope for that good seat, even if you have paid premium prices for the tickets. It is very much as it is in the popular temples. I am thankful to all those individuals at the sabhas who realize that we have come a long way to hear good music and are courteous in offering us good seats. There are others who can be as rude as some in the the audience that you describe!
A new experiment needs a good response. In that way, I am happy that so many people turned up to listen to two leading performers in CM.

Punarvasu,
Can't wait to hear your impressions (and those of others) from Mumbai...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Jun 2009, 04:58

>In that way, I am happy that so many people turned up to listen to two leading performers in CM.

I was also thinking about that silver lining in that mess A_E encountered.

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 29 Jun 2009, 05:04

Assigned seats would solve the jostling problem - make everyone get tickets, even if the price of tickets is zero. That way, an organizer can keep track of how many people will show up, and take action (more publicity if ticket sales are slow, additional shows if demand is high). But some traditions are hard to change! If this forum allowed signatures, mine would be "Clean toilets at all sabhas!"

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Jun 2009, 05:56

>the jostling problem

I like your precise characterization. This jostling problem usually happens whenever there is a perception of scarcity.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 29 Jun 2009, 06:19

I can't sign off witihout mentioning the stampede and completely unintelligent behavior exhibited by the people waiting to get in once the doors opened. I was there from 5.20 pm and there was already a sizable crowd in front of each entrance. About ten to six, the doors opened and an unbelievable level of jostling and pushing was witnessed, even to the extent I was afraid the four-year old child of a friend would get crushed. I was so shocked by this behavior that I called out saying "let's all act like intelligent people" . An elderly gent took exception saying "Oh don't use such adjectives. We are all very anxious to get in" and proceeded to push his way in as though it was perfectly normal. Amazing.

The hall was full, and so were all the plastic chairs and placed outside where people could watch on the closed ckt TV and there were also people seated on mats along the corridors. Due to many pressing commitments at home I had to leave after the main piece.

Well A_E,
I can't deny the fact that this is also a part of the Mylapore audience. =)
But, it is reducing, nowadays. Free concerts are always like this, in Chennai.
The best example is the 'mArgazhi mahA utsavam' concerts in Chettinad school auditorium.
Thousands turn up. It was a challenging task, to run inside the auditorium, find a seat and hold the seat! That too, in an Aruna Sairam concert. I went 4 hours in advance. But, I was told that some people had come in the noon itself!! People cross limits there! A lady, had already told her driver to stand in the long and unending queue. For further security, the driver was holding a plastic chair in his hand, ready to place it in the hall if the auditorium chairs were already occupied!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Jun 2009, 06:25

In the jaya tv case, the possibility of the their face showing up on tv is a major contributing factor.

>the driver was holding a plastic chair in his hand, ready to place it in the hall if the auditorium chairs were already occupied!

We have to give it to them for their preparedness. Hint..hint.. there are light weight folding chairs.

( it worked in the opposite way for me. I got a ticket to Ind-Aus test match (late nineties), it was rare to come by, so I did not tell anyone..And what did they do? They put my face on worldwide TV

)

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jun 2009, 07:07

VK!
You are a celebrity too? Didn't know that. Don't say, no. We all have our moments of fame in today's world, according to Andy Warhol--however fleeting the time frame is!
Anyway, you had millions of people watching you and you wanted to go hide your face

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 29 Jun 2009, 07:23

Arasi and VK: "House-full and overflowing" was of course no surprise. But for me at least, it was a real surprise that an obviously well-educated and "cultured" crowd would find the least optimal and decorous way to get in. In the absence of any arrangement by the organizers, I'd have thought people would form a simple queue based on FCFS and walk in! Hadn't realised this was std operating procedure in the cutcheri-going culture!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Jun 2009, 08:35

A_E, I would have fallen off that plastic chair if I saw an automatic line forming

Yeah, it is not good but that is what happens. At the thyagaraja aradhana in thiruvayyaru ( 12+ years back ), they announced food will be served. After having slept in the pandal the previous night and not having had much of a breakfast to speak of, I strolled down there for a meal. There was quite a scene, the same jostling problem. The problem was, the first pandi was already going on ( how, I do not know, I went there within 5 minutes of the announcement ), and so no one can go in. I was an amused onlooker for a couple of minutes at the edges of this melee but very soon I was part of that jostling crowd since others had joined the scrum in the mean time. I had to retreive myself out of it.

Those people who finished eating have to come out for these people to go in but this 'well attired and cultured crowd' would not back off from that one entrance since they do not want to lose their place in this mess. I decided to take control a little bit and yelled at them in Tamil 'There is enough food for everyone, be patient and get out of the way of the entrance'. And another person joined me in this 'crowd control'. It is a fairly docile crowd, so we two could manage them

The red sea parted, people from inside could get out and some degree of normalcy returned. Still there was really not a queue but atleast the log jam was cleared.

( sorry for extending the de-tour, we should probably get back to the concert itself )

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 29 Jun 2009, 08:59

vasanthakokilam wrote:A_E, I would have fallen off that plastic chair if I saw an automatic line forming

OK now I get into a touchy subject. Wouldn't an equivalent (well-attired, classical concert-going) crowd in the west entered the sabha in a somewhat orderly fashion?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 29 Jun 2009, 10:07

Any reviews of the TMK - VS concert?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 29 Jun 2009, 11:44

karthikbala · Post by **karthikbala** » 29 Jun 2009, 15:11

Always_Evolving wrote: OK now I get into a touchy subject. Wouldn't an equivalent (well-attired, classical concert-going) crowd in the west entered the sabha in a somewhat orderly fashion?

As far as I can remember, all quality concerts, performances I have attended in US/Europe have been ticketed, with seats assigned. Most opera houses even allow you to select from the seating chart online. In the case of free concerts like the ones in public libraries, churches etc. there are usually more seats than attendees.
Having said that, I have occasionally stood in long queues for standing-room tickets, and have never witnessed any unruliness or lack of decorum.
My personal experience is, some of the people who behave deplorably here wouldn't dream of trying to jump a queue when they travel overseas. Organisers have to share the blame too. The Met box-office in NYC for instance has an airport check-in style roped-off queueing arrangement, so people know exactly where to stand and dont have a choice. When people come with the expectation of a minimally organised free-for-all, the results are predictable.

I read somewhere; there's a term for this: "Buffet Syndrome"?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jun 2009, 19:39

You have said it, Kartikbala.
I would like to add that durig the season, there are several sabhas which issue tickets in the morning AND write on them your seat number. They have the seating chart and you can choose your seats as well. I do not frequent dance programs. Try to get out of a concert hall when a dance progarm or an Aruna Sairam concert is scheduled after that!

vganesh · Post by **vganesh** » 30 Jun 2009, 10:05

If any of you expect a culture of people standing in Queue that too in India by themselves then you are not in this world

. People put towels, bags in buses, they push people whereever possible. The place I have seen an orderlyness of people standing in Queue is in Mumbai. People immediately stand in queue the moment they know crowd is too much. Because everybody is equally mighty there. As Mr.VK had done we have to shout. Probably people would listen.

vganesh · Post by **vganesh** » 30 Jun 2009, 10:06

Concert review is in different thread." Kutcheri reviews and recordings".

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 30 Jun 2009, 18:23

Well, you are absolutely right, vganesh ji.
You can never expect the Chennai rasikas to be disciplined. But, the situation will change one day, I hope. Atleast, the NRIs have the good fortune of listening to their favourite artistes peacefully. You can't expect a 5000 and odd people in the Aruna Sairam concerts in USA(I hope!) =)

srinivasasarma · Post by **srinivasasarma** » 14 Jul 2009, 17:52

We have gone away from jugalbandi to jostlings !
1. If one had visited Tiruppathi on Holidays, he would gain experience in jostlings.
2. Reg. Jugalbandi, abt 30 yrs ago, Maharajapuram Santhanam and Shri Trihur V Ramachandran gave a concert together (with shri TNKrishnan
and shri Vellore Ramabadran (?), at Mylapore Fine Arts. It was a good kutcheri. They had performed in few more places and that is all.