Scattered thoughts.

[vyshak]

A few thoughts to ponder over

- The present generation music has doubtlessly lost its affability. Why is music more of a battle against the vocal chords than a euphony harmonious with the shruti. Has melody lost its meaning or is it much of the urge to achieve brigas, laboring the vocal folds ? The voice culture techniques seem to have disappeared and the concept of karvai's have ceased to exist. Or has Abhishek Raghuram grown up on it ?

- Why has mathematics taken over aesthetics ? Do we find musicians serve the purpose of sarva-laghu swarams or fail to get over the monotony exhibited to block brain cells with mind bending kanakku patterns. If nothing else, laya should be left as an accompaniment to music rather than allowing it to gain mastery over it.

- Has the mandhara sthayi reached salvation already ? Why do people drive themselves head over heals to reach the lower panchamam ? What lacks in their singing - discipline or humbleness ? Why do musicians find themselves gratified at the slightest achievement . Perhaps, music could sound easy on the ears if it wasn't the case. Does TMK seek motivation to maintain and enhance favorable views of himself or is he a new synonym to an Egotist ?

- The sadist in me refuses to listen to musicians today. On second thoughts, are there any genuine reasons for why I shouldn't miss out on these people or out date the veteran musicians ?

- What has self-restraint and adakkam got to do with music today ? Who cares ? Big Deal.

जिह्वे प्रमाणं जानीहि भाषणे भोजनेऽपि च।

अत्युक्तिरतिभुक्तिश्च सद्य: प्राणापहारिणी

Know your limitations "O, tongue, regarding speech and eating . Garrulousness and gluttony can cause instantaneous death.

Fell free to share your views. I am a heartless, soulless beast incapable of love - I only hate practice equal opportunity hatred.

[Nick H]

You write off music, on the basis of the performances of a handful of people?

Listen to the other handful of people instead: you will be happy

[msakella]

In general, the conservatives are always used to bemoan even for the rational reforms. Even in general studies the ‘MPC-group” always stands very high and has its own charm, importance and greatness among all others. Hot is also equally important like sweet. To tell the truth, the hot makes us to eat sweet more and vice-versa. Not only in classical music even in cine-music none can enjoy any song if the rhythmical element is removed from the song. Even among the five divisions of Manodharma-sangita, Ragam, Tanam, Pallavi, Niraval and Svarakalpana, while the rhythm is in-distinctive in Raga, it is distinctive in Tanam and it has even been metered in the remaining three divisions, Pallavi, Niraval and Svarakalpana. This itself reveals the importance of rhythm or mathematics. Many recent experiments on several kids obviously revealed that mathematics (kanakku) only sharpens the brains and makes them more brilliant, intelligent, self-confident and active if they are properly nourished from the beginning basing upon the level of their rhythmical-instinct. But, as the music-teachers have been unable to properly assess and nourish it in-time many of these kids are loosing their talents. This has even been proved in lots of cases. People are, in general, afraid of mathematics. But, none can live without that. It has its own importance even if some bemoan of it.

Yes, mathematics takes over aesthetics if it is over-done. But, due to lack of understanding, many people bemoan even if it is in the lowest limits in a concert. There may be hundred kinds of sweets. But, you can take whatever you want even without bemoaning about other kinds. Please do so. If not try to learn kanakku which you may not get it in this life time. amsharma.

[Sundara Rajan]

In short sarva-laghu is janaranjakam. some kanakku is sila-ranjakam ( sila=some). Athi kanakku causes ajIrNam, most rasikas cannot digest/enjoy !

[srikant1987]

Kanakku is a real challenge in rAgas like kEdAragauLai, where a grsnd will be impremissible. Apart from that, isn't it just integer multiplication and addition?

Singing/playing different kAlams, and different naDais is more of real laya work.

[Nick H]

isn't it just integer multiplication and addition?

The challenge is in making the numbers, be they simple or complex calculations, into something musical and good to listen to.

[advaitam]

Kanakku is a real challenge in rAgas like kEdAragauLai, where a grsnd will be impremissible. Apart from that, isn't it just integer multiplication and addition?

Singing/playing different kAlams, and different naDais is more of real laya work.

I completely concur with you Srikant. As I often lament, while showing one's prowess in Laya is all fine and dandy, a lot of singers today resort to mere high school arithmetic in the name of Laya. Laya is always greater than Kanakku, that is something that no true musician/rasika can deny. Laya is the overall control over the "Time" aspect of music, not just keeping good talam and/or singing plenty of kanakku calculations, practiced a thousand times at home. As I remember a great Mridanga Vidwan once said, "Layam na Bhagavan" (Layam means God)! In this regard I am hard-pressed to disagree with Nick in that mere numbers can never have real musical value. They are transient, ephemeral. For most, trying to recall a kanakku after a concert is like trying to remember the details of a dream after waking up - no matter how "memorable" the dream was we tend to start forgetting the details almost as soon as we wake up. Similarly with regard to kanakku - no matter how much we enjoyed it at that moment, retaining and recalling its finer details is difficult for most. I don't completely decry singing kanakku swaras, but some aesthetic restraint must be used. Moreover, this should not be treated as the be-all-&-end-all of our music. This is often sadly the case with a lot of young musicians today.

Another interesting point brought out by Srikant is regarding the "grsnd" thumb-rule for singing korvais/kanakku. I have no idea which Shastra prescribes that a korvai must begin as "grsnd" or "mgrsn", that too always starting from the taara sthaayi. This is where musicians like Dr. Balamuralikrishna score, in that his korvais never subscribe to this staid formula. I know of another musician too, not very well known as a musician, but better known for his enthusiastic bursts of appreciation during concerts, who is, unknown to most, an excellent singer and a genius at setting korvais with patterns so different that even the best mridangists/violinists will be left scratching their heads! I completely agree with his philosophy in this regard - why make korvais so predictable and formulaic, since they anyway do not fall under the realm of Kalpana (improvised) music, but are fully Kalpita (pre-composed) in nature? Might as well make them interesting! That will a more musically sound exercise in mathematics

[vasanthakokilam]

I am confused about the grsnd reference in the context of korvai and kanakku. I did not know they were strongly coupled, even to qualify as a subject matter for humor

[arunk]

Also unless I am mistaken here, it is sort of ironic that g r s n d as such is certainly very much allowed in kedaragowla BUT not as the standard korvai pattern -i.e grsnd rsdnp - that i believe would violate aro/aver.

Not to take away from the point that the choices get restrictive to ragas with more restrictions in their structure and usage.

Arun

[srikant1987]

Also unless I am mistaken here, it is sort of ironic that g r s n d as such is certainly very much allowed in kedaragowla BUT not as the standard korvai pattern -i.e grsnd rsdnp - that i believe would violate aro/aver.

kEdAragauLai doesn't comprise of everything in the krama srmpns-sndpmgrs.

I meant the standard kOrvai pattern by grsnd.

[arunk]

Well I am not saying it is comprehensive either. Your example as quoted just comes off a tad misleading.

Also - ok, i will bite - what is not allowed in swarakalpana that seems allowable by the nominal aro/avaro of kedaragowla?

Arun

[srikant1987]

How about,
M,G,RGRG S,,, NSNGRGSR NSRRSNNSNNDPMP,NNSNSRMGRPMG,RGRSRNSR ? ]

[advaitam]

I am confused about the grsnd reference in the context of korvai and kanakku. I did not know they were strongly coupled, even to qualify as a subject matter for humor

I did not necessarily mean just "grsnd" (5 aksharas) wrt korvai - kanakku. What I meant was that almost all musicians sing korvais beginning with "g r" or "m g" in the taara sthaayi. Why not start from other notes, maybe in the madhya or even mandara sthaayi, depending upon how much freedom a particular raga allows. Hope my point was better elucidated

[arunk]

How about,
M,G,RGRG S,,, NSNGRGSR NSRRSNNSNNDPMP,NNSNSRMGRPMG,RGRSRNSR ? ]

Good one but how i was hoping for something more insightful and illuminating than what seems like a parroting of the pallavi of narayanagowla and thus implying a stock answer "this is narayanagowla and so cannot be kedaragowla" ! (also I think both ragas don't share the exact same aro/avaro - but the difference isn't featured in the above sample)

Anyway, so what exactly within the domain of srmpns/sndpmgrs isn't allowed in kedaragowla and why? I dont know the answer but have some sort of a guess one of which I believe is a difference in semantics with narayanagowla (In fact just grsnd-rsndp itself is disallowed but that is outside of that domain and so doesnt count)

Arun

[srikant1987]

Oh well, arunk -- you should know kEdAragauLai isn't an ArOhaNa-avarOhaNa (mUrcana) rAga! Firstly, I recollect another thread where I asked what exactly differentiates n.gauLai from k.gauLai and suruTTi. I have exposed myself to more n.gauLai since.

Anyway, mUrcana of n.gauLai is given as srmpndns - sndpmgrgrs. So with the RGRG we are applying n.gauLai's mUrcana pattern. Pity that also fits in k.gauLai mUrcana also. But that definitely isn't k.gauLai. Though I think we can notate tuLasI bilva's "bilva" with some kind of a RGRS. It's actually more of a RGGRS and the first ga is like a ma. Ah, how subtle CM is!

Also, the MP,NNS is how I think Prof TNK plays it: MPNDNS is there in a notation I've seen. NDNS would of course violate the k.gauLai mUrcana.

There is an SRJ lecdem differentiating k.gauLai and n.gauLai on youtube. One key difference is that a long, flat (I would rather say blatant fits better than flat) ga means n.gauLai.

Also, a RMM is very n.gauLai. A stretched ma or a double ma also comes in suruTTi. I love the usage! It comes in alarshara paritApam. RMM,,, (jAru) M,, M,,M,,,MP,MMGR,,,

It also comes in gItArthamu: "kAlAdi karmamulanu"

kaddalEvADu of Chittoor ("gADE" rAmuDu in earlier sangatis). In innALLu daya rAkunna vainamEmi (also nArAyaNagauLai), we also find such usage. "shrI rAma" (earlier sangatis) of pallavi and "kallalADaka" of (mudrA) caraNam contain it.

[arunk]

Now that was way more useful than (what came off as) a careless

Kanakku is a real challenge in rAgas like kEdAragauLai, where a grsnd will be impremissible

Because that appears as factually blatantly wrong unless one extrapolates into the context.

rgrs in kedaragowla - yes there is nokku on ga with ma. For rgrgrs in kedaragowla in kalpanaswaras check out http://www.shivkumar.org/music/manodhar ... dr-c03.mp3 -

ndns - no need to bring it in. That is a fundamental structural difference - which is disallowed. You cannot ascend from dha in kedaragowla (atleast I think so unless there is some special phrase I dont now about - very much possible).

ga - flat and long (relative to ma and ri) - not allowed indeed in kedaragowla and as it would tread into narayanagowla territory. That was the one thing besides the above ndns that I knew about. I think dha flat long may also be the difference but I am not sure about that. I think it occurs in SrI rAmam and to me that part (atleast now when I picture) seems distinctively narayanagowla

And please do not assume/presume for others what they know or more importantly what they ought to know. We are all continual learners here - but may be I shouldn't speak for you. At least I am always a learner - in fact I don't think I can ever claim to be anything more. I know that little and that too mostly acquired informally.

Arun

[srikant1987]

I think dha flat long may also be the difference but I am not sure about that. I think it occurs in SrI rAmam and to me that part (atleast now when I picture) seems distinctively narayanagowla

Yes, it comes in shrI rAmam, but it doesn't appear in kaddalE vADu, innALLu or even in the varNam (afa I've noticed).

That's a very refreshing MDR-TNK recording. Thank you, Arun! Who's the mridangist?

Did you notice that around 3:35 there's a pndn from MDR?

[arunk]

Who's the mridangist?

I dont know. I am lousy at identifying anyone other than the vocalist - I dont even bother trying!

Did you notice that around 3:35 there's a pndn from MDR?

indeed - good catch!

(I know kalpanaswaras arent necessarily very strictly adherant to lakshya and maybe even lakshana in more complex ragas and so can be an unreliable indicator of raga swaroopa)
Does this mean pndnp as well as pndns is indeed allowed in kedaragowla too but maybe as a rare phrase (because not rare uld erase the line between kedaragowla and narayanagowla even more I would venture to guess?)

Arun

[arunk]

Another reference: http://www.carnatica.net/newsletter/ked ... letter.htm

Not a whole lot - does have this interesting reference:

The swara struture in prayogas show chequered patterns. Many prastharas permitted earlier, like "ma-pa-ni-sa-ri-ga-ri-sa" and "ni-da-ni-pa" are disallowed now-a-days. The phrase "ni-da-ni-pa" goes to the verge of Narayanagowla.

But dont know how much it matches with whats practiced - and again musicians do take liberties in kalpanaswaras.

Arun

[srikant1987]

I know kalpanaswaras arent necessarily very strictly adherant to lakshya and maybe even lakshana in more complex ragas and so can be an unreliable indicator of raga swaroopa

Isn't the general opinion that MDR would rather take liberties in lakShaNa than lakShya?