Tala-Raga combinations

charukesi · Post by **charukesi** » 19 Jul 2007, 02:35

To all rasikas out there, I wanted to know if there were any unwritten rules as to whether only certain thalas be used when singing or composing krithis in certain ragas, depending on the melodic nature/identity of the raga. Like how certain ragas are sung only in certain kaalams, likewise if someone were to compose krithis or semi-classical songs in certain predetermined ragas, should he avoid using certain thaLas? For already existing compositions thaLas are already specified. So my question is more for composers who are thinking of composing/singing a song in a certain raga. If there any known or unwritten restrictions, please list them and also any general rules that you know of which musicians employ. Also, in case if there is any such list of which thaLas to use which ragas, I would like to see it too. Thanks

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Jul 2007, 04:14

Interesting. Haven't thought that such a thing exists. I would like to know too! Since I don't sit there and 'deliberately
compose' (the songs 'happen' to come to me), I wouldn't know. Not being well endowed in 'tALA', I suppose Adi tAlA figuring in almost all my compositions is not just a matter of coincidence. When I have wondered about the tALA of a few songs, I would seek help, and would know what exactly they are

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Jul 2007, 04:22

Then again, we do know that compositions in each rAgA are set to various tALas. That certain rAgAs LEND themselves to a particular tALA is a possibility??
DRS, Mohan, Ramakriya and others might know of restrictions if they do exist...

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 19 Jul 2007, 06:04

I am not familiar of any 'sampradAya' regarding setting certain ragas to certain tAlam-s. All tAlam-s can be rendered in different kAlam-s.

If you take a major raga like say Kalyani, Saint Thyagaraja himself has employed all the major tAlams in his different compositions.

etA vunnara - Adi - 2 kalai
vAsudevayani - Adi 1 kalai
sundara ni - rupaka
talli ninnunera - khanda chapu/jhampa
nidhichala - misra chapu

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Jul 2007, 07:40

Thanks Mohan.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Jul 2007, 08:06

One thing I have noticed is, Bilahari seems to go along better with Khanda Chapu. Indeed there are songs in Bilahari in many different thalas, so this is more of a personal liking towards the Bilahari-Khanda Chapu combination.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Jul 2007, 08:19

VK,
Sorry to disappoint you. A few of my songs which are in bilahari are all in--you guessed it right--Adi. Wish I had your knowledge and ability in tALa...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Jul 2007, 09:19

Arasi: I should have said 'a slight bias in that combination' since I very much love your Bilahari song. Regarding tala knowledge, the truth is, tala knowledge had been a huge weakness of mine ( and it still is ) and it has improved a bit only in the past couple of years mainly after interacting with the folks here. Prior to all this, I was simply overwhelmed by the complexity of the kriyas and mathematical descriptions, the musical relevance was lost on me. The main learning experience has been to appreciate the aesthetics of rhythm and its deep relevance to our music. There is still a long way to go.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 19 Jul 2007, 11:02

Interesting -I guess Khanda Chapu would be right any composition that is fast-paced and therefore ragas which are suitable for madhyama-kala krithis.

I wonder if there are any vilamba kaala krithis at all in Khanda Chapu?!! I suppose Misra Jhampa/Khanda Eka make more sense if a 5 beat cycle is desired.

bhaktha · Post by **bhaktha** » 19 Jul 2007, 11:38

Classic example: HeccarigagA in y.kAmbhoji. Better suited to singing in vilambam when sung employing the k.ekam rather than k.cApu.
-bhaktha

charukesi · Post by **charukesi** » 25 Jul 2007, 23:09

Thanks for the inputs. So I can take it to assume that there are'nt any major restrictions for a composer? I guess it depends more on your own musical instincts, how you feel and so on?

I started this thread earlier because I was wondering whether when it comes to heavy, bhashanga ragas (or ghana ragas) like Bhairavi, I thought that if the nuances of the raga would be beter elaborated if set in a thaLa cycle that is longer. I know, ultimately the kaalam decides the tempo but still..

Like vijay above pointed out that khanda chaapu is suitable for madhyama kaala krithis, which in turn means that fast-paced compositions that are to be set in madhyama kaala, could have khanda chaapu as one of the chief options when it comes to choosing thaaLa?

Maybe if there is a thala-kaalam link and a kaalam-raga link, we can make a thaLa-raga link eventually. I dont know.

More inputs would be appreciated.

charukesi · Post by **charukesi** » 25 Jul 2007, 23:15

arasi, khanta and especially misra chaapu are'nt dificult at all. There are plenty of even lighter/filmi songs in those thaLas. I think you should try to sometimes consciously set your compositions in those thaLas. It is fine to let tunes "just happen" in your head, but sometimes that might lead to stagnation as well(as in the repetition of the adhi thaaLa). Once you consciously try setting your new tunes in new thaLas, as some sort of academic exercise initially, then eventually they too would start occuring naturally to you too. Thats how you progress. Just a casual suggestion, hope you don't mind.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Jul 2007, 08:19

Not at all, charukesi! I am happy you have confidence in my graduating to more difficult tALAs. Some of my songs DO come in tALAs I cannot recognize, I admit. I put them away. Thanks for your encouragement. When I get a chance, I will spend some time with a pro who can guide me to grow...