TNS at Parthasarathy swami sabha, Dec 19th 2008

ninnukori · Post by **ninnukori** » 20 Dec 2008, 20:17

is there anybody who attended TNS sirs parthasarathy swami sabha concert
i missed it, should have been great concert with MC mama and Murthy mama,
can anyone give the song ldetails.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 20 Dec 2008, 21:02

Here's a partial list. I couldn't stay through the concert as I had a few works pending.

The concert was with Shri M Chandrasekaran (violin), Shri TK Murthy (Mrudangam) and Shri TV Vasan (Ghatam).

1) Ninnu Sevinchina - Yadukulakambhoji - AS
2) Telisi Rama - Purnachandrika - S
3) Thiruppavai verse followed by Azhimazhai - Varali - NS
4) Ganamurthe - Ganamurthi - N
5) Shri Parthasarathy - Madhyamavathi - ANS
6) Ranganayakam - Nayaki

Had to leave after this. The rapid fire Swarams in Purnachandrika were interesting. The Yadukulakambhoji Krithi was rendered very well. Varali was sung nicely as well. The pick of the concert, to me, as long as I stayed, was Ganamurthe. The rendition was very good and the short Ragam interlude between the Pallavi and Anupallavi was really nice. The short Neraval at Navamegha was wonderful. Shri MC played well. Murthy Mama accompanied brilliantly. One of the best percussion accompaniments I have heard so far in this season.

Sathej

sarojaRamanujam · Post by **sarojaRamanujam** » 21 Dec 2008, 12:12

After ranganayakam it was Pankajalochana in Kalyani of Swathithirunal and then TNS sang the slokam sayankale vananthe which was a bonanza of ragas. The concert ended with the pasuram thuppudaiyarai andthillana in cnandrakouns which is hies own composition and vangakkadal thiruppavai in suruti. It was a wonderful performance with the three sangith kalanidhis. My review will be published in www. sarojaramanujam.sulekha .com, carnatica.net and kutcheribuzz forums shortly.

ninnukori · Post by **ninnukori** » 21 Dec 2008, 12:23

I have heard TNS singing his own compositions and thillanas in few of his concerts, A request should be made to him to give a special concert of his own songs, his thillanas are wonderful, his students can also present a thematic concert in his compostions and thillanas.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 21 Dec 2008, 14:14

I entered when he was in Ganamoorthy. TNS has to understand one thing. When he is getting old, he has to reduce over brigas and has more clarity in sahityam and reduce 10 in 1 raga culture for a 2 line verse. It is boring to see tukkada ragas being sung for 7 minutes and in a hindustani style with all the brigas.

The word "Navagraha" in Sayankale word was rendered in 9 ragas. He is a SK and master of vidwat. for this I prostrate 1000 times. But his sruti again went for a toss. Over brigas in neraval in Ganamurthy, Nayaki is very slow. Kalyani lacked beauty. "pankaja lochana" the beauty at which SSI rendered at his age 80 was lacking with TNS at this age.

This is my view. TNS fans should pardon me, if they are hurt.

His son was asked to sing Hamsanadham. He followed the same pattern of TNS and started ~Varsha of Brigas. After that MC said- "I don't need to play violin, his brigas are enough".

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 21 Dec 2008, 15:23

Observations of GRSastrigal makes sense. If the throat is not supportive, a bit of restraint is required to maintain the beauty of the music. Excess brigas coupled with sruti lapses will kill it. This exactly happened in the Narada Gana Sabha Concert on the 9th dec!
Listen to the TNS 1980 concert where he has rendered a Brindavan Saranga with MSG on the violin (sung in New Delhi). It is a real treat. It is an addictive rendering.
I think he has gone over board with briga and speed over the years which is taking a toll on the beauty.

Amruthavarshini · Post by **Amruthavarshini** » 22 Dec 2008, 12:46

Music fan, dont give wrong information. TNS has never sung with MSG in New Delhi. You may clarify with him or MSG regarding this and let me know if I am wrong.

Abinaya · Post by **Abinaya** » 22 Dec 2008, 13:31

Iam new to this forum and initially when i registered i thought i am going to share good reviews views and participate in healthy discussions pertaining to music. It is very unhappy to note that many members give their critical comment about legends and stalwarts their quality of concerts etc, as if they are authority in the subject.
Most of the reviews are baseless. WE are not here to advise or guide a stalwart who is an expert in everything. Members can avoid throwing their personnel views and thoughts. I too heard NGS concert of TNS mama , His voice co operated well that day , there are lot of things to assimilate from his music , as somebody has told in this forum his music is not only a treat but an education for most of the younger generation. one needs a very high technical caliber to judge or to comment on his music.
At NGS concert i very much observed the way he sang Brovavamma Manji, in a very slow tempo the phrases were unique, he demonstrated in such a way "These are Manji Pidi's. If members really want to indulge in healthy discussions they should highlight all good aspects of a concert?? . when a concert is reviewed,both positive and negative points should be mentioned that is constructive criticism, The intention of certain reviews seems to spoil the high reputation of the stalwarts. If someboby wants to give genuine reviews they coudld have particularly mentioned the way he rendered the pieces sarasadhalanayane and Brovavamma in a very slow tempo which filled the entire hall.If something bores somebody they can leave the hall why should they give suggetion to the artist to avoid ragamalika viruthams in multiple ragas etc etc
If TNS doesnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t reach to your level of appreciation kindly avoid attending his concert.
You have choices variety of artistes are there to listen to.

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 22 Dec 2008, 13:34

Amruthavarshini wrote:Music fan, dont give wrong information. TNS has never sung with MSG in New Delhi. You may clarify with him or MSG regarding this and let me know if I am wrong.

Kindly refrain from commenting the way you did. My point was the qualty of the music. This is featured in the sangeethapriya. If required, you may challenge that!

sarojaRamanujam · Post by **sarojaRamanujam** » 22 Dec 2008, 15:35

I agree hundred percent with Abinaya. Nowadays people seem to relish in picking out flaws even if there were not any with celebrities who are way above ordinary souls like us. I dont mean only in the music world where this practice is rampant, because people do not realise that the real rasikya is something that goes beyond the auditory nerves and needs the attunement with the musician and sense what he is trying to express, but it should be discouraged in all fields.Carnatic music is not play back singing and it requires years of training and involvement and brilliance of genius to come to such a heght as TNS is today. If I do not like a musician or a dancer or a an actor I stop going to their performances but it gives me no right to criticise them just becasue I do not see their merit which thousands admire. For a cgange I wish the people who write in such forums as this, will remark only on the merits of the artistes and not try to sit judgement on eminent persons likeTNS for which we are not qualified to do so. Healthy attitude in reviewing concerts is fast dissappearing partly due to some reviewers who wish to advertise their expertise rather than enjoying the music. The music is divine and whoever sings with involvement and sincerity is the high priest of the diviinity. It is not for the onllokers to criticise their aradhana because they are not singing to get the testimonials of all and sundry.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Dec 2008, 16:17

Personal views are the very foundation of this forum and it is the variety they offer that gives us any discussion at all. If we were to restrict ourselves to praising artistes on their merits and just dismiss ourselves as inferior beings unable to comprehend the great vidwath of so-and-so, then we would make really poor rasikas and rather shallow human beings. GRS's comments were not in bad taste at all and were simply suggesting that a musician should sing per his current capabilities. Nothing injurious about such views! You all say that a rasika should not attend concerts of a musician he or she dislikes, and I agree wholeheartedly. As an analogy, people who feel disappointed that rasikas.org is not a fan page where we only rave about the merits of artistes may also withdraw from the forum. As long as we respect the artistes and the art (which most of us do), I for one do not believe in imposing an Emergency on this forum.

abhiprayam · Post by **abhiprayam** » 22 Dec 2008, 16:42

I accept it is not a fan page and also suggest the members to stop criticising and giving advises to artists who have acheived many things in the field, rather than giving authoritative comments they can just discuss good aspect of any musician , like what ragam has been rendered the way the artists delineates the raga the new varieties of RTp's etc etc , artists singing for more than 50yrs very well know how to present a concert and other nuances, criticism cannt be in the form of advise. As saroja says Healthy attitude in reviewing concerts is fast dissappearing . People review the concerts of legends and senior musicians as if they have indepth knowdlege in everything.

poornashadjam · Post by **poornashadjam** » 22 Dec 2008, 16:53

Dear friends,

I dont think there should be any restrictions to the members/rasikas, expressing their views in this kind of forums. But let us not make our criticisms too harsh and emotional. A constructive critisism on a certain artist or a concert will do help to CM and the artist. Somebody has said elsewhere in this forum stating - Sad demise of raga Nilambari by some artist . Why are we sensationalising an issue this way ? There are certainly better ways of conveying one displeasure than saying this way. One needs to understand that all days are not sundays . A musicians performance on stage depends on many factors - his state of mind , his health condition , his pressures . We have to remember that a musician is doing a LIVE on stage show. Once he steps his foot forward , he cannot take back and he needs to be vigilant always. Lot of positional thinking is required and always he needs to be alert. A momentary lapse in the concentration can pull him down. On a bad day even the best of the artists can fail .

Sridhar

i_srinivasan · Post by **i_srinivasan** » 22 Dec 2008, 17:01

Abhiprayam et al, "Healthy attitude" need not be positive review(s) all the time. Once artistes (performing) in public domain critical reviews are bound to come. There is nothing objectionable in posting critical reviews as long as it is not condascending or insulting in any form. Surely nothing mentioned/said by grsastrigal or bilahari would make you think that

By the way any reviews of TVS concerts this season? Seems to be very few

balsree · Post by **balsree** » 22 Dec 2008, 17:12

abhiprayam wrote: artists singing for more than 50yrs very well know how to present a concert and other nuances, criticism cannt be in the form of advise.

You can see it as either an advice or feedback. I thought this is one way of the artiste getting to know whats there in a rasika's mind. Usually this kind of feedback is not available on stage for no one goes and tells the artiste directly on stage. I am sure a summary (if not the details) of these discussions would reach the artiste. In that case, an artiste can get feedback of what people think. Also the artistes are well versed to either take the feedback or discard it.

I agree that artistes have years of experience. Rasika's taste also would change over a period of time. I still believe its a healthy thing to discuss if the intent is right. I am seeing this as an exercise which has the possibility of keeping both the rasikas and the artistes happy

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 22 Dec 2008, 18:21

Every human being will have a good day and a bad day. If a concert is not upto the standard what is wrong in stating so. Afterall we try to benchmark based on the potential of that artist.
Take Tendulkar, one the Greatest cricketers, one bad match which costs the team, he is bashed. This happens in all the fields.
I think there is a bit of her worship that prevails which prevents from taking a negative critisism.
TNS is a great vidwan and therefore his concerts are benchmarked based on certain expectations.
If a concert is good, it is very much said so in most of the cases here, then why get offended and claim that negative comments should not be passed!!!!

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 22 Dec 2008, 19:40

Hi Amrithvarshini are you sure about the fact that TNS was not accompanied by MSG in the Delhi concert ?What is the basis for your concluding so Please elaborate.From memory I do recall that such a concert was held at Delhi but I did not attend it.I was in Delhi from 1971 to 1989,and am aware of almost all concerts held as they were few and far. and Abhinaya while welcoming you to the forum I would like to know since when are you listening to TNS sing? I have seen a clip of his when he sings as a boy..... Over the years his singing has declined in quality. If you desire to know what his capacity was then please listen to some of his concerts of the seventies particularly the 1974 concert of Pune. and compare with his singing today you will notice the decline ,this definitely has to do with age and his singing numerous concerts. The youngsters have a lot to learn from him about his vidwat which is in abundance.He is a very great artist and nobody can doubt that.Bye Ragjay

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 22 Dec 2008, 20:10

The TNS concert with MSG with Brindavana Saranga [Soundararajam] concert was held in Music Academy Madras, with a RTP in Surutti. TK Murthy was the mridangist.

Musicfan_somenumber / GRSastrigal - OK, so you didn't like his concert then? Fair enough. Now, will you go to his next concert?

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 22 Dec 2008, 21:09

This issue of Shruthi lapses of TNS and how he ought to sing to avoid them and so on has been debated time and again. Well, to me, there are broadly two classes of Rasikas - one who go to 'enjoy' an evening of music and come home - it being an end in itself. The other class includes those who want to take home something from a concert - from an educative point of view. And to me, the extent of educative aspects present in any TNS concert, even those in which his voice is really out of shape, is way way higher than that in a concert by anybody else. For instance, at the MFAC concert yesterday, he sang Nenarunchi - a song heard so so often in concerts and the patterns he brought out in the Chittaswarams were innovative in themselves and would make even professional musicians sit back and think about it. The way he innovated in a Thillana - right towrads the end of the concert - after singing for 4 hours and 15 minutes was educative. There are several take-home messages. Of course, there is no denial that his Shruthi goess off at certain points. But the amount of education and insights gained by listening to his concert outweighs Shruthi lapses, to me. This is not to say I don't 'enjoy' TNS' concerts. The criterion for my enjoyment differs.

Another odd feature I've observed about people pointing out Shruthi lapses with TNS is this - 9/10 musicians who are in the senior category now (senior in terms of age) and still give concerts are all having similar problems with Shruthi. I don't wish to name any of them. All of them who were singing with excellent Shruthi in their hey days are now woefully short in that department. But that doesn't take away any of their greatness. True, they may not draw people belonging to the first catgeory who want to 'enjoy' an evening (and a poor Shruthi does not contribute to enjoyment, I agree), but they are stalwarts and need not change their style to a milder form where they are concerned about Shruthi lapses thus hampering their creativity and thereby people of the second category lose out on the educative aspect.

There is no reason why some artiste should stop singing or change his style of singing to cater to the likes of a larger number of people. As long as there are people interested to listen to them, they would continue.

Sathej

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 22 Dec 2008, 21:55

MaheshS wrote:The TNS concert with MSG with Brindavana Saranga [Soundararajam] concert was held in Music Academy Madras, with a RTP in Surutti. TK Murthy was the mridangist.

Musicfan_somenumber / GRSastrigal - OK, so you didn't like his concert then? Fair enough. Now, will you go to his next concert?

Unfortunately you missed the point.
While you address someone, do so properly instead of this "somenumber" business.

Jigyaasa · Post by **Jigyaasa** » 22 Dec 2008, 22:50

Abinaya wrote: one needs a very high technical caliber to judge or to comment on his music.

What are the odds that someone by the id of vv ramesh uses EXACTLY the same words (I quote him/her) "one needs a very high technical caliber to judge or to comment" ?!!! In another thread (the RIP nIlAmbari one...) N "anadabhairavi" has already expressed suspicion in that forum that vvramesh and sadasiva iyer are possibly the same... The same person with 3 ids...? :rolleyes:

and

sarojaRamanujam wrote: Healthy attitude in reviewing concerts.

Going by certain reviews, is this to be equated with a monolith of praise heaped on the artiste? That's how it appears. As i_srinivasan has rightly pointed out, everyone is entitled to an opinion of their own. Some ppl jus wanna say X or Y is great, phenomenal, the be-all-and-end-of-the art and cannot tolerate EVEN a word of (possibly jusitifed) criticism and they will defend their Gods even when flaws are impossible to ignore. It's just blind adulation... By these standards, we shud all just be saying sabash, besh, bale for practically everyone who sits on a stage n sings, because some forumite or the other will favour them and consider them the best... N they will be hurt, possibly even more than the artistes themselves (!) by ppl's comments if they're unfavourable...

abhiprayam · Post by **abhiprayam** » 22 Dec 2008, 23:04

Every member is entitled to an opinion of their own it is accepted, but in most cases criticisms too harsh and emotional. A constructive critisism on a concert and artist will do good to carnatic music as well as to this forum. I completely accept what sathej has said.

Amruthavarshini · Post by **Amruthavarshini** » 24 Dec 2008, 12:33

Ragjay,
I also was in Delhi during that period. I have been following his music since the seventies. If my memory serves right, he has not sung with MSG at Delhi. I am trying to clarify it from TNS himself. Will let you know when I get the info.

As far as the comment about TNS Krishna
Krishna never sang brigas the other day. He sang Hamsanandhi and not Hamsanadham. He used extended kaarvais, with varieties of jaarus. He sang a breezy Hamsanandhi after which MC said that, Krishna has sung so well that I need not play at all. I feel this has been misquoted.

As far as TNS is considered, healthy or unhealthy reviews or comments do not matter at all. He is too seasoned an artist. When comments are made comparing his young age concerts with the present days ones, it does not appear relevant at all. Age is a very important factor in an artists life. In the young TNS, the voice, power and stamina dominated, in the present day ones, the gnanam, bhava and finer aspects dominate. It is with the rasika to pick and choose the best and enjoy.

madtnsfan · Post by **madtnsfan** » 24 Dec 2008, 12:38

Rightly said I cent percent agree with amruthavarshini, In TNS mama's present day concerts his gnanam bhavam extraordinary manodharma and other finer aspects dominate.

saptaratna · Post by **saptaratna** » 25 Dec 2008, 15:11

I totally agree with the last two posts. For God's sake we are all human. We all go through wear and tear and one does not have to talk on that subject.

What is important is that, boys half his age and expereince cannot hold onto the stamina on stage interms of lung power or gnaana . So many of them , with spoilt voices so soon. TNS still does not suffer from that. His briga clarity, lighting flashes and the gamaka and karvais that one gets to hear is still of the highest quality and what manodharma !!

Even if some forumites think that it is sycophancy , ad nauseaum, i would maintain that this is the truth abou the musical qualtiy of this genius.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 26 Dec 2008, 12:49

Amrithavarshini

You are right. It was hamsanandhi not hamsanatham. From the memory, I wrote it as the latter. MC's comments also, though it means the same (what you wrote).

Just listen to his BVB's "vritham" uploaded by me (in the other post), Pl offer your comments.

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 26 Dec 2008, 18:58

Hi Amrthavarshini I am speaking from memory but as I had not attend it personally I cannot confirm whether such a concert slated to be held was held or not. I am trying to ascertain this fact from a friend of mine still residing at Delhi. Bye Ragjay

Amruthavarshini · Post by **Amruthavarshini** » 27 Dec 2008, 07:08

I got news that TNS sir has confirmed that no such concert was held at Delhi.

Sastrigal. I also attended the BVB concert. "Paal ninaindhu" is Thirvachagam and is a moving verse. Where as Sayankale has a different bhavam. I feel that TNS has sung each of them in a very appropriate manner, keeping the bhavam in mind.It is just the you like his BVB version more then Parthasarathy sabha. Question of taste, thats all

gopubabu · Post by **gopubabu** » 28 Dec 2008, 13:56

Amruthavarshini wrote:Music fan, dont give wrong information. TNS has never sung with MSG in New Delhi. You may clarify with him or MSG regarding this and let me know if I am wrong.

Amruthavarshini dnt get too emotional, this is a forum for discussion. Everybody is entitled to give their own views.

Amruthavarshini · Post by **Amruthavarshini** » 29 Dec 2008, 12:13

Amruthavarshini dnt get too emotional, this is a forum for discussion. Everybody is entitled to give their own views.

Very true. If it is views, fine. Here it appears to be an error. That is why I had to clarify.

blackadder · Post by **blackadder** » 29 Dec 2008, 19:38

There seems to be a school of thought that if one is critical of an artiste, one should (or maybe try not to) attend that artiste's concerts in future. Going with that train of thought, here is what I suggest:

For every concert review, let us start two threads. The first will be, say, ABC at XYZ Sabha - Praise only, and the other will be ABC at XYZ Sabha - Praise and Criticism. Those who do not want to read the criticisms (for some strange reason this seems to have only a negative connotation) let them go to the first thread. Those who are willing to take the criticism without getting emotional can go to either. Sounds like a plan?

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 29 Dec 2008, 20:23

Blackadder,

(But in all likelihood, from the name of the original poster, we'd be able to figure out which is which!)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Dec 2008, 01:52

blackaddr, that is not without precedence. People have resorted to similar devices in a few non-indian music forums. ( where people are very uncivil to each other ). The reasoning is 'let truth not come in the way of spoiling it for the fans'

so there are separate fanboy threads where negative reviews are not allowed.

In the sports context, a group of us practise a similar thing. If a game of our favorite team is broadcast nationally, the commentators there try to be unbiassed and do not share the excitement and enthusiams in favor of our team which is no fun for us 'fans'. So we kick 'em out by cutting down the TV sound and tune to the radio commentary of a local station. They are very biassed in favor of our team

This is more so with college level games where the attachment runs quite deep and perennial.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 30 Dec 2008, 10:57

Blackadder- I disagree with you. I still go for TNS concert. I wish he has to go a bit slow. I will still go, even if he does not.

Today, he is singing in Sastri Hall, Luz. The same case with Sudha also.

blackadder · Post by **blackadder** » 30 Dec 2008, 15:53

bilahari, great point! Never thought of that. Maybe, then, the poster needs to have two identities. Oops! did I just open Pandora's box?

vk, I did not claim that my idea was original.

I was just seeing if we could adapt it to rasikas so that we can all get along.

grsastrigal, you read me wrong. I am not one of those who refuses to go to a concert based on a (or several) bad experience. I will take the highs with the lows. Of course, I will also insist that I will call a high as a high and a low as such.

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 30 Dec 2008, 23:25

But spare a thought for all the silent readers on the sideline. They are going to miss out on the fun in all the "conversations" between pro and anti sides that they have right now