Rahman's Golden Globe award

sbala · Post by **sbala** » 19 Jan 2009, 16:45

I'm starting this thread so that folks can take a breather from the other controversial threads and congratulate this great man on his winning the Golden Globe award. He remains my favourite musician and he is arguably the only true pan-Indian one. His attention to details and the ability to keep producing quality work continues to amaze me. And it's hard to believe that he has retained his humility after all these achievements. Thanks ARR for remembering us during your speech. Good luck for the Oscars!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 19 Jan 2009, 21:18

Congratulations to the director and wishing him all the best for the Oscars!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Jan 2009, 22:47

We are proud as Indians for the recognition!
Oscar ?
Yes we can!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 19 Jan 2009, 23:09

Congratulations to ARR indeed, not that he needed a Golden Globe to reassure himself of the quality of music he makes! Out of curiosity (since we're technically veering away from CM in this thread anyway), what did people here think of Slumdog? I have heard very mixed opinions from friends and family, some of whom adored it and were moved by it and others who ridiculed it for pulling out every stereotype about India there is. I want to hear more opinions before going to see it because I'm not a big fan of films and it would take an exceptional production to get me into a theater!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 20 Jan 2009, 00:46

Well everyone who's into India-bashing seems to be getting an award these days...a recent, undeserved Booker readily comes to mind

The basic psychology at work is not very different from the China-bashing that was witnessed before the Olympics...schadenfreude is the word, I think...

Anyway I will reserve my judgement until I see the film...

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 20 Jan 2009, 01:05

I read White Tiger as well. Liked the pseudo-earnest tone the protagonist takes in his accounts, but definitely didn't see why it "knocked the socks off" the Booker panel. I remember one Indian reviewer saying it set India back a hundred years! Another recent Booker winner, Inheritance of Loss, though, I really enjoyed. Rohinton Mistry's probably my favourite Indian English writer right now though.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 20 Jan 2009, 01:30

I thought Arundhati Roy's book was the best among the recent Indian winners...a gripping plot, lots of "bhava"'

and, well, decent prose. Perhaps you were able to empathise with sense of displacement in Kiran Desai's book - it didn't get across to me in the way the God of Small Things did...But Salman Rushdie towers over them all - a bit like TNS though - his genius can be a little overpowering sometimes!

But hey, let's get back to poor Rahman!

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 20 Jan 2009, 01:41

Shall not attempt to analyze movie/book-lakShaNas on this forum, but I have to say Arundhati Roy remains my favorite Booker to date, Adiga didn't grip me as much, and Slumdog Millionaire, well, I just watched the movie and am still digesting it. As of now Rahman's accceptance speech is more appealing to me than SDM. Within the general genre, I liked Split Wide Open by Dev Benegal (1999) much more.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 20 Jan 2009, 02:08

Haven't read Arundati Roy yet, because my sister just dismissed her as a "crazy commie" and our tastes are generally the same! Now I'm curious. My all time favourite book is Midnight's Children. What sheer genius, really!

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 20 Jan 2009, 02:36

Yes, indeed congrats to Rahman.

Interesting discussion here. Two things at the top of my to-do list is a) to watch SDM b) read Arvind Adiga's book. Read just enough about both to find them attractive. BTW, any old Naipaulites here - love his scathing critique of India, Islam, etc.. but don't care for his condescension.

India-bashing is not a bad thing. The truth is the only thing that matters. We have to evaluate ourselves not by highest personal income, best run company or the tallest glass building but by such things as a) per-capita sanitation b) per capita clean water c) healthcare d) human development index e) social mobility f) gender equality g) per capita forest cover... the list is endless. By most of these yardsticks, P Sainath would tell you, and rightly, that we're at a very low percentile in the world along with countries in sub saharan africa. We must do whatever we do with these sobering thoughts in mind.

I certainly loathe the terms like India Inc, etc... as if the whole country were a ridiculous corporate monster. Sorry for the digression.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 20 Jan 2009, 03:25

This is a digressive thread anyhow so let's indulge a bit! My specific problem with White Tiger wasn't the India bashing (don't know enough about corruption, treatment of housekeepers, drivers, and cooks, etc to comment on that) but that the plot simply wasn't there. Within the first pages of the novel the protagonist lays bare the gist of the plot and there's some very aimless meandering on the way to "climax," which by then appears long drawn out and boring. Also, there is nothing especially revolutionary or novel about the ideas of the novel, whereas in Desai's novel, for instance, I loved how the man who moves to America just can't seem to make it in the country and actually RETURNS to India. There is the problem of geographic displacement (nothing new there), but there's also an idea of "replacement." Those last few pages where the character wonders if all this trouble is worth it to stay in America and then his return are all events and notions I have rarely come across in immigrant literature. Add to that the entertaining judge who's clearly lost in the past and isolated from the present and all his rants, and you have a book that's genuinely captivating and which offers something new (to me at least). Didn't find either an interesting plot or new ideas in Adiga's book (just from my reading of it).

But back to Rahman, I have particularly enjoyed his work in movies like Bombay, Indira, and Kannathil Muthamittal. Might be worth it to watch SDM just for the score if he's outdone himself!

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 20 Jan 2009, 03:59

Uday,

Going to ask you for some more enlightenment. Thanks for the many measures you have given. All of them are perhaps meaningful. On the topic of healthcare, we do need to assume that given the vast levels of poverty, there is going to be a significant number without access. On the other hand, given the inherent problems with our social system, I do believe India has one of the better healthcare offerings. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this, tho I apologize that its not in any way related to this thread.

Congrats to Rahman, in the meantime. I liked his speech the best too, rather than the song itself

!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Jan 2009, 04:11

mahesh3 wrote:On the other hand, given the inherent problems with our social system, I do believe India has one of the better healthcare offerings!

Having dealt with the system recently, I would agree that it is true in principle, and probably even in actuality when evaluated from the point of a populace, but when sampled by any given individual, it is patchy at best.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Jan 2009, 04:18

And here is a clip of ARR's win, and speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDMyaz55AlY

vidya · Post by **vidya** » 20 Jan 2009, 04:49

The booker is no different from the SK, the nominees and those that didn't make it are in many cases better. I found Indra Sinha's Animal's people (Booker 2007 nominee iirc) refreshing. Thought I'd add that in light of corporate monsters..

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 20 Jan 2009, 06:16

I saw the film Slumdog Millionairre last night. It is a captivating film indeed but as the title suggest focuses on the life in the slums of India. The music is of the typical Rahman style with rap and other Western music interwoven with Indian beats. There is also some konakkol integrated but that is the extent of the Indian classical music in the score.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jan 2009, 06:20

Dilip Kumar had to convert to Islam to get recognized. If not he would not have won the Golden Globe without the financial support from the Gulf...
MK Gandhi had to go to London to discover the greatness of India and be recognized as a Mahatma!
Max Muller had to declare that Indians are not savages but their philosophical cogitations are worth listening to (though still inferior to the West) before Indians started studying their vedas.
Ravi shankar needed a boost from the Beatles to be recognized in India.
...the list is endless.

When will India attain independence ?

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 20 Jan 2009, 06:28

mahesh
I will email you personally about my thoughts on medical care (both traditional and modern) in India. It seems too preposterous to discuss it on a Carnatic music board !

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 20 Jan 2009, 06:32

rshankar wrote:
mahesh3 wrote:On the other hand, given the inherent problems with our social system, I do believe India has one of the better healthcare offerings!
Having dealt with the system recently, I would agree that it is true in principle, and probably even in actuality when evaluated from the point of a populace, but when sampled by any given individual, it is patchy at best.

Found myself doing a double-take on both posts. When evaluated from the point of populace do MOST Indians have access to quality, affordable, healthcare for routine issues? On the contrary I find ordinary Indians incurring huge loans to pay for private care even for "simple" conditions such as pre- and post-natal nutrition and iron deficiency.

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 20 Jan 2009, 06:50

AE,

Alas, the particular issue of pre- and post-natal nutrition is complexly interlinked to our societal practices, which is not just limited to
issues with healthcare and medicine but are really rooted to larger issues such as sanitation, gender issues (such as pregnant mothers not fortifying their food intake), deficient feeding practices etc. I agree that this is one of the most serious issues in India, but to place the burden of this issue at the door of caregivers, hospitals, drug stores and pharma companies becomes complicated. The Government of India has made this one of the central issues to address within the healthcare landscape.

And, just to clarify, these so called simple issues are just as complex even in the US...particularly for the poor (and/or uninsured?) but it is definitely not as pronounced

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 20 Jan 2009, 07:03

mahesh3 wrote: And, just to clarify, these so called simple issues are just as complex even in the US...particularly for the poor (and/or uninsured?) but it is definitely not as pronounced

Just to clarify I am not looking up to the US system as any kind of yardstick!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jan 2009, 07:22

Do please discuss Health Care issues in a separate thread and leave this related to ARR..

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 20 Jan 2009, 07:28

Yes, sorry for digressing on this thread. Maybe on a diff forum altogether

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 20 Jan 2009, 07:35

Always_Evolving wrote:I find ordinary Indians incurring huge loans to pay for private care even for "simple" conditions such as pre- and post-natal nutrition and iron deficiency.

Well, if these "natal" conditions didn't occur so often, our problems would be much easier to solve.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jan 2009, 07:45

Please open a new topic and discuss Health Care issues/

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 20 Jan 2009, 07:50

cmlover wrote:Please open a new topic and discuss Health Care issues/

suggested title "ArOgya and avarOgya"

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jan 2009, 08:00

Done!
Please goto
http://rasikas.org/forums/post105053.html#p105053

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 20 Jan 2009, 08:05

I am extremely sorry to wound the feelings of ARR FANS. My personal opinion is that after the skyrocketing success of the unforgettable songs of ROJA, ESPECIALLY THE TAMIL VERSION, ALL HIS OTHER FILMSONGS WERE REPETITIVE AND PEDESTRIAN, making excessive usage of hand clappingand foot tapping taal instuments like drumsand other percussion instruments(sorry, i forget the names) TRUE, he is ajack of all trades(i stop with it) What is so special about GOLDEN GLOBE AWARD? GOBILALITHA

ram · Post by **ram** » 20 Jan 2009, 09:24

gobilalitha wrote:My personal opinion is that after the skyrocketing success of the unforgettable songs of ROJA, ESPECIALLY THE TAMIL VERSION, ALL HIS OTHER FILMSONGS WERE REPETITIVE AND PEDESTRIAN, making excessive usage of hand clappingand foot tapping taal instuments like drumsand other percussion instruments(sorry, i forget the names) TRUE, he is ajack of all trades(i stop with it)

gobilalitha ji,

I respect your experience of listening to different genres of music over many years and your personal opinion. My humble request to you would be to listen and re-listen to some of his albums like Lagaan, Swades, Jodhaa Akbar and the very recent release Delhi 6, if not his other ones. Each of these has characteristically different music that is so rich that one can find something new almost every single time one listens to it. The experience is all the more enhanced if you use very good quality audio system (with good speakers).

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 20 Jan 2009, 10:05

ram wrote:
gobilalitha wrote:My personal opinion is that after the skyrocketing success of the unforgettable songs of ROJA, ESPECIALLY THE TAMIL VERSION, ALL HIS OTHER FILMSONGS WERE REPETITIVE AND PEDESTRIAN, making excessive usage of hand clappingand foot tapping taal instuments like drumsand other percussion instruments(sorry, i forget the names) TRUE, he is ajack of all trades(i stop with it)
gobilalitha ji,

I respect your experience of listening to different genres of music over many years and your personal opinion. My humble request to you would be to listen and re-listen to some of his albums like Lagaan, Swades, Jodhaa Akbar and the very recent release Delhi 6, if not his other ones. Each of these has characteristically different music that is so rich that one can find something new almost every single time one listens to it. The experience is all the more enhanced if you use very good quality audio system (with good speakers).

Agree. 'khwaja' alone was worth the price of admission to 'Jodhaa Akbar' .

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 20 Jan 2009, 11:40

Bilahari, would suggest you gie Roy a read. I am not a great fan of her political ramblings either - I think the Outlook gives her opinions way more printspace than they are worth - so I picked up the book with a lot of skepticism. But, as in the case of CM, I suppose we need to separate the art from the artiste!

Same goes for Naipual who is anything but likeable. The book that made the best impression on me was Beyond Belief - a travelogue in a sense but it goes so much further than a regurgitation of landscapes and histories.

Vidya thanks for recommending Indra Sinha - will try and pick it up although I had officially dedicated this year to American Literature (if there is any such thing

) but don't you think the SK has been fairly discerning compared to other awards? It may have missed out several giants for various reasons but it has also recognized mahavidwans like RK Srikantan, Vedavalli, Nedunuri etc. despite their limited box-office appeal

Getting back to Rahman, I've been out of the film music loop since the early nineties and was never much into Tamil film music since I grew up in the north but on one of my summer holidays in Chennai, the "Chikku Puku Raile" song (not sure which film) really got me hooked! Of course Roja was a moster hit all over the country too. I also enjoyed his scores for Bombay and Lagaan.

I don't know much about orchestration but it seems to be one of Rahman's strengths. Of course old timers would probably lament the loss of the earthy simplicity and raga-based melodies that characterized the music of earlier greats like MSV and Illayaraja. This probably explain Gobilalithaji's reaction.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 20 Jan 2009, 13:22

I'm putting Roy at the top of my to-read list. Read good things about Indra Sinha's book as well but could never find it in Singapore libraries when I was in the army and actually had time to read for pleasure. Of contemporary American literature, can't say I've heard of many good ones (do you consider Jhumpa Lahiri American?- If so, her latest collection of short stories, Unaccustomed Earth, is rather good). But when you decide to dedicate a year for non-Indian world literature, I'd highly recommend 100 Years of Solitude by Marquez and Disgrace by Coetzee. Oh, I have a good recommendation for modern American literature (early 20th C)- Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison. Really good read- almost canonised in modern American fiction (about a black man's travails in a period where blacks are legally equal to whites but practically far from it, and also deals with the internal conflicts of the African American community at the time).

As for raga-based melody in film music nowadays, does anybody listen to the Tamil film songs made nowadays? They have no melody and make no sense either (unless Tamil vocabulary is expanding every second to include every permutation of individual syllables).

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 20 Jan 2009, 14:02

American literature (as in North America/USA) specifically - I don't read much of Indian fiction actually. I've read Marquez but strangely enough haven't come around to reading Coetzee yet. Yes Jhumpa Lahiri qualifies and I liked her first collection of short stories but I meant the more iconic figures in contemporary American literature like Philip Roth, Normal Mailer, John Updike, Jack Kerouac etc. which have generally escaped my attention.

I did read William Faulkner and loved it (probably the most intense book I've read) but it was quite a while back. Also, American literature was rubbished by some European intellectuals ahead of the Nobel Prize announcement - was it Philip Roth whose name was being thrown around before the announcement?

sunaada · Post by **sunaada** » 20 Jan 2009, 16:23

A little digression...I found this rather wonderful website about plagiarism in Indian Film Songs:

http://www.itwofs.com/

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 20 Jan 2009, 17:01

Ha,Ha,Ha, the cracker (1000walla pattas) which I lighted and threw has started cracking in all directions !!!. the main subject has been given a send off !!! gobilalitha

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 20 Jan 2009, 20:02

I'm just not keen on film music, but I have enjoyed some of ARR's songs, and join in with hearty congratulations.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 20 Jan 2009, 20:26

Congrats to ARR, his speech was well thought and delivered. Hope he gets an OScar!

His music is like "Abhangs" to me. Occasionally I don't mind listening to a few albums now and again. Then I revert back to my tried and tested "Kambodhi and Bhairavi"

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 20 Jan 2009, 22:41

ram wrote:Each of these has characteristically different music that is so rich that one can find something new almost every single time one listens to it.

Aren't you the one who writes in Ram's abode? IIf you are, can't thank you enough for the Concerts in Chennai section!

And this is very true ... because of the concept of harmony ... and the very large scope for creativity provided in music for cinemas, it is possible for extremely capable musicians like ARR to produce such multilayered music ... with different layers uncovering themselves every next time the song is listened to again. Sometimes the uppermost layers are themselves attractive, but sometimes we need to dig in deeper. So I would also request Gobilalitha to give some tracks another chance.

But that said, it is my opinion that movies are themselves becoming extremely pedastrian, and ... because the music has to go with the movie (though it might offer creative freedom in some other sense), ARR cannot do much for them. And I have mixed feelings at ARR going away from this cinema field. On one hand, it means we have a really great music composer ... but it's harder to keep myself informed of his coming projects this way, unlike when he worked for Indian film industry!

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 21 Jan 2009, 03:01

What ARR has achieved is phenominal for all of us, Indians....let us give him a big Cheer....!!!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 21 Jan 2009, 09:42

cmlover wrote:Dilip Kumar had to convert to Islam to get recognized. If not he would not have won the Golden Globe without the financial support from the Gulf...
MK Gandhi had to go to London to discover the greatness of India and be recognized as a Mahatma!
Max Muller had to declare that Indians are not savages but their philosophical cogitations are worth listening to (though still inferior to the West) before Indians started studying their vedas.
Ravi shankar needed a boost from the Beatles to be recognized in India.
...the list is endless.

When will India attain independence ?

Yes, I agree with you.

Nothing happened to Ilayaraja for his contribution (except some pres award) , not even beyond south.

ARR has scored better music than SDM in the past. But it requires a foreign director and
a negative exposure of india kind of situation to get an award.

Coming to ARR's current form, it is not all that great. Compare a simple album like Gajini in Tamil and Hindi.
Harris has done better music in Gajini. Not sure of background score.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 21 Jan 2009, 18:33

And I think you are a joke mcescher1 - a very bad one.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 21 Jan 2009, 18:47

bravo vijay! haha! I agree. how dare this charlatan take the name of m c escher in vain !

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 21 Jan 2009, 20:32

you're welcome

.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Jan 2009, 20:41

Billionnaire (PadmashrI) AR Rahman (Note Padma = Billion

) is now sure to be honoured as a Bharata Ratna!
(when the Western world honours an Indian will India be far behind

vidya · Post by **vidya** » 21 Jan 2009, 20:43

God,Elevated Eschers & bachward thinking. This forum is getting rather tesselated!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Jan 2009, 21:19

Escher (lacking the 'l' in his pseudo or 'real' name

) by no measure can compete with Godel and will always be incomplete

Here Rahmaan is our honoured Mehmaan !

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:42

mehamAn hO yA math man,
masti music man kO mAnnA
man pasand kI bAt hai

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 22 Jan 2009, 16:40

I think the above lyrics by Arasi can be used for a beautiful tune by some competent music director, preferably in the raag jog. OR, ONE OF OUR COMPETENT SINGER MEMBERS CAN TRY AND POST THE SONG . GOBILALITHA

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Jan 2009, 22:50

Thank you, Gobilalitha, but unless they make a popular movie about Ramanujam the mathematician and throw in merry scenes, this 'mutt' of a three liner won't pass muster

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 22 Jan 2009, 22:59

There are too many lines in that lyric for any HM musician to attempt...
(and too few for a CM musician to attempt