State of music in Pak

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 28 Jan 2009, 02:37

This makes for quite sad reading...
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJan2009/ ... an2009.htm

[quote]"Classical music is on its last legs in Pakistan; the sarangi and vichitraveena are completely dead,"

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Jan 2009, 03:40

What is your point? How relevant this is to CM?
Spell out your views for any meaningful discussion!

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 28 Jan 2009, 09:57

CMLover,

It iss relevent to classical music. Pakisthan has a rich tradition of cultured classical music, tho I am unsure if t is characterized as hindusthani music. Ever heard of music by the Pak brothers? Top class.....

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 28 Jan 2009, 12:58

If history is anything to go by, the smothering of music and other forms of art in a society point to its decline, and eventual downfall.

If a people are intent on destroying symbols and practices of refinement, it means that they have become a sick nation.

It is said that during Aurangzeb's reign, he and his henchmen had banned all forms of music, since they thought music was un-islamic. And the Mughal empire started declining even when Aurangzeb was alive.

It appears that, like the Mughal empire, it is the fate of Pakistan to fall apart and disintegrate, signs of which we are already seeing now.

Don't they say history repeats itself?

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 28 Jan 2009, 13:03

Girish,

Yeats's "Second Coming":

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

How unfortunate, though I never knew Pakistan had ever had a vibrant classical music scene.

lifeisasong · Post by **lifeisasong** » 30 Jan 2009, 01:16

All isn't lost yet, though the picture is bleak. An interesting film was made on the state of music in Pakistan called Khayal Darpan by the Indian filmmaker Yousuf Saeed. Clips are available on google video. For more information see: http://www.ektaramusic.com/khayaldarpan/ and for the google video clip see: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9134687006

The film does show the surviving musicians lamenting the loss of musical traditions in Pakistan, but there are a few taking an interest in keeping it alive.

Through this film, I learned of the blind Dhrupad singer Aliya Rasheed who spent four years in India learning from the Gundecha Bandhu. who is now back in Pakistan.

At Lahore Chitrkar, music classes are held in the Talwandi style of Dhrupad, flute, tabla and kathak classes are also held. They also hold monthly music performances. http://www.lahorechitrkar.com/

I have been to Lahore Chitrkar, so I have some idea that though it's a struggle, there are still some wonderful people fighting to keep the classical performing arts alive in Pakistan.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 30 Jan 2009, 01:54

It is a sad commentary on the state of affairs in Pakistan. It is also a great example of how mangled interpretations of the religious texts could lead to the death of great culture...examples of classical music dying in Pak , destruction of century old Buddha statues in Afganistan etc. It is also perplexing to note while sufism encouraged bhakthi thru music, other branches of islam denigrate and actively seek destruction of music...if this is not misrepresentation of religion, what is ?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Jan 2009, 03:04

I am sorry ragam-talam I have to close this topic.
This has the potential of getting into an unsavoury discussion of the 'state of affairs in Pakistan'. Tempers can run high and we may attract unnecessary attention from potentially hazardous sources. I am sure you will understand this is preventive action rather than being a curb on Freedom of Expression.

Be careful in choosing the topic for discussion carefully in future!
Thanks for your coperation.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Feb 2009, 05:29

This topic is now open for a responsible discussion and will be guided by the author of this thread !

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 02 Feb 2009, 06:18

There are many Pakistani groups that make good light music.

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 02 Feb 2009, 20:44

I still have some some recordings of Nusret Fateh Ali Khan, his Kedar still rings in my ears!!!

Same thing in Afghanistan as well, they used to have a terrific classical set up .. unfortunately the war with Russia, then the Taliban taking over ... what a pity.

I have read that MSG and his Dad [?] have performed there.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 03 Feb 2009, 05:47

I have heard that Karachi of pre partition days was a heaven on earth and no comparision to what we see and hear today.

The town then had a 90% Hindu population (& this is for the purpose of statistics only). Carnatic Music Aficionados of today may be surprised to know that there also existed a "Karachi Tamizh Sangam", where CM concerts were occasionaly held.

Ramakrishna Mission in Karachi was another place of importance , then headed by the redoubtable Swami Ranganathananda (who in his later years became the head of Ramakrishna Mission).

Bade Ghulam Ali Khan who was based in Lahore could have stayed on in Pakistan after partition by virtue of his religion. A man of great foresight he moved to Bombay as he could forsee the collapse of music in a theocratic state. Who can forget his lament " If every family in India had a child learning music this country would never have been partitioned"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Feb 2009, 09:13

Cienu,
Inspiring words from the ustAd and how they ring true! Reminds us that even today his wise words can be an inspiration for us rasikAs on the forum. To see more children drawn to music while their parents and the rest of us encourage them!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 03 Feb 2009, 09:42

Tamizh Sangam and CM in Karachi - who would've thought! BTW here in Bangladesh the attitude is quite tolerant - Rabindranath Tagore is a national hero (his native place is here) and Rabindra Sangeeth has a status similar to that of CM in South India. However patronage for Hindustani music is not much in evidence

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Feb 2009, 13:27

Which goes to prove that where culture and languages are cherished, they don' die away with political changes.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Feb 2009, 18:56

Thanks cienu for the info.
I never realized Svami Ranganathananda was at Karachi at the Ramakrishna Mutt. Coming to think of it, it was one India with a hoary culture shared by all. While fighting tooth and nail against the division of India Gandhiji even agreed to rename the whole country as Pakisthan (if they wanted) and it is indeed sad the country got divided. Music can still be the universal cement since we all share the same heritage!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Feb 2009, 20:42

Svami Ranganathananda is a very powerful speaker. I have attended several of his discourses in Ramakrishna hall in Golpark in Kolkatta during the 60s. The airconditioned hall accommodates about 500+ and no one got up until the discourse is over and the public maintained a pin drop silence. Memories!

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 04 Feb 2009, 14:51

BJP leader L K Advani's autobiography My Country, My Life gives an account of the Karachi Ramakrishna mission and the Swami.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 10 Feb 2009, 08:40

vijay wrote:Rabindranath Tagore is a national hero (his native place is here) and Rabindra Sangeeth has a status similar to that of CM in South India.

Isn't it more like Bharathiyar's songs?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 10 Feb 2009, 11:12

Tagore was both a poet and a composer. His compositions are collectively referred to as Rabindra Sangeeth. I understand that they contain some elements of CM including some ragas. It falls somewhere on the borderline of art music but is clearly the music of choice for the cognoscenti in Dhaka...intonation and "bhavam" are among the measures of a performance and a lot of words are expended on song-lists, rare pieces and so on, not unlike the CM scene!

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 10 Feb 2009, 17:57

As a people, those from Bangladesh and Paschim Banga are proud of their shared heritage, adore music and remain scarred by the partition.

An article on the indomitable spirit of Waheedul Haque http://www.thedailystar.net/magazine/20 ... ribute.htm
"His father Janab Mazharul Haque taught his children that no child is born with a religion, he is born as a human being and that is his real identity"

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 10 Feb 2009, 19:22

[quote="knandago2001"]An article on the indomitable spirit of Waheedul Haque "His father Janab Mazharul Haque taught his children that no child is born with a religion, he is born as a human being and that is his real identity"

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 10 Feb 2009, 22:22

Ravi: My pleasure! More from Pakistan....

Why are we so ashamed to admit that these are our traditions and this is our music? Indians call it their music and are praised and respected for that. Why not us?
http://www.chowk.com/articles/5881

Yousuf Saeed - Khayal Darpan
http://www.ektaramusic.com/khayaldarpan/

Roshan Ara Begum announced that she was giving up Riaz as no one seemed interested in listening to her music. Her announcement jolted concerned citizens into action. Read on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Pakist ... Conference

Classical music and dance is in the air of the subcontinent. We can choose to ignore it but not eradicate it http://lahore.metblogs.com/2008/04/20/a ... onference/

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 11 Feb 2009, 02:56

knandago2001, thanks for the info and the links. Khayal Darpan seems to be a truly fascinating piece of work.
In the context of music in Pak, how can one ignore the great Ghulam Ali and his contributions through ghazal music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L12j69fNyqs

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 11 Feb 2009, 10:34

Thanks a lot for the links Nandagopal. It was wonderful reading the same.

Also of interest to rasikas is a link below wherein a Musical dance drama on Kalidasa's "Shakunthalam" was held in December 2007, (where else but in Karachi !).

Pakistan still has a small section of people with embers of love for classical art forms. Hopefully the numbers will grow in future, though the present scenario indicates anything but that .

http://www.dawn.com/2007/12/19/local11.htm

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 11 Feb 2009, 12:33

money · Post by **money** » 17 Feb 2009, 00:05

What about the state of music in India, in CM if you please?
I recently heard a top Nadaswaram player in Bangalore lamenting that he is being asked to play film songs in marriages and peoples tastes shifting.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 09 Apr 2009, 12:58

This was an article I read the Pakistani Newspaper "DAWN" of today (9th April 2009) on the sad state of Classical Music in Pakistan.
Thought I shall share the link with other rasikas.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -notes-sal

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 09 Apr 2009, 16:30

YES, The article about musicians of Pakistan is heart rending. Read about MEHDI HASSAN'S deplorable condition, gobilalitha

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 09 Apr 2009, 16:43

Yes Gobilalitha, I fully agree.

The words of the Sarangi Ustad, Akhtar Hussain still ring in my ears.

"IÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ve spent 32 years of my life practicing my art and the strings of my instrument have cut deep into my fingernails, yet what do I get for my hard work? Nothing."

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 10 Apr 2009, 13:28

Yet another article in todays "Daily Times" of Pakistan , in the context ARR winning the coveted Oscar.
Nice article . Read on.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg3_4

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 11 May 2009, 02:52

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8011930.stm
Pakistani singer Iqbal Bano dies
Renowned Pakistani singer Iqbal Bano died on Tuesday [April 21st] in the eastern city of Lahore aged 74, it has been reported.

Ms Bano was best known for her semi-classical Urdu ghazal songs and classical thumris, but also sang easy-listening numbers in 1950s films.

Few singers of classical music matched the brilliance of her voice and her command of musical notes, critics say.

She became a cult figure under the rule of Gen Zia ul-Haq in the 1980s when she sang songs banned by the government.

She violated the ban by singing revolutionary works by Pakistan's critically acclaimed poet, Faiz Ahmed Faiz.

The chants of the audience in the 1985 recording of a concert at which she performed Faiz's inspirational anthem, Hum Dekhenge (We Will See), have become a symbol of resistance, says the BBC Urdu service's Arif Viqar in Lahore.

He says she transformed several other Urdu verses with her exceptional singing skills and command of the language.

Pride of Performance

Iqbal Bano was born in Delhi in 1935. She moved to Pakistan in 1952, where she married into a land-owning family.

Her first songs were recorded at All India Radio in Delhi, says Arif Viqar.

She was a star by the 1950s, with several hit film songs that have since become classics in their own right.

But her natural talent was towards semi-classical music, such as thumris, dadras and the classical rendition of ghazals, a genre of Urdu poetry.

She was given the Pride of Performance award by the Pakistani government in 1974.

She also sang Persian poetry, which became popular in Iran and Afghanistan.

In pre-1979 Afghanistan, she was often invited to the annual cultural fair, the Jashn-e-Kabul.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 11 May 2009, 19:07

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 15 May 2009, 02:18

Thank you for that wonderful audio. Truly a mesmerising voice.

There are lots of video clips of Iqbal Bano at youtube,
e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsHW5pQWFrk

It seems she was offered Indian citizenship which she declined.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 20 Jun 2009, 02:58

Nice to see Indian movie songs still popular in Pak:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ4i19ZTj20

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 20 Jun 2009, 07:33

Iran, Iraq and other middleeast countries still listen and enjoy Hindi movie songs.

saranyaf · Post by **saranyaf** » 24 Jun 2009, 15:44

thanks a lot

music

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 25 Jun 2009, 00:56

Not about music, but check out The Hindu piece 'Bharatanatyam in the time of the Taliban'
on 80-year Indu Mitha.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/23/stories ... 492000.htm

Excerpt:
"I have no business to be teaching at this age,"

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 12 Aug 2009, 15:27

Interesting news:
Veteran dancer wins over Pakistan
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8177057.stm

"The art of Bharatanatyam should not be confined to India and its temples alone," said Ms Mithu, "if this happens it will only serve to harm the art."

"Since the essence of Bharatanatyam is its delicate and beautiful movements, expressions and sound, it will survive not only in Pakistan but the world over."

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 12 Jun 2010, 05:10

Fascinating 2-part interview on Dawn News of Pakistan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7sQpFQErMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p7ZGFFtzMs

The quality of the interview itself is top-class. The host Naveen Naqvi asks questions in a very pleasant format. And the two artistes featured are Shubha Sankaran and Brian Q Silver, who play the sur bahaar and sitar respectively.

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State of music in Pak

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