Dear Violinists, which leg do you use for tala?

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 03 Jan 2009, 14:56

I am curious to know which foot you tap for tala while playing violin? or do you just do that in the mind? some schools proscribe tapping the right foot( the one's anklet on which we rest the violin ) and any inputs on this would be appreciated..

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 03 Jan 2009, 21:03

The idea is to use both the feet, and sometimes even the right leg itself. You can get creative with these, I suppose. For example, mark normal all beats of tapping your right foot, but the dhrutam's second beat by tapping the left, so the Adi tALam would be four rights, one right-left, another right-left.

srichitra · Post by **srichitra** » 04 Jan 2009, 08:19

I think in "lalgudi" school they use the left leg. you can notice this if you happen see any of his videos. At times he uses his right leg too(but thats rare).

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 04 Jan 2009, 08:37

Yes, I think the Lalgudi school uses the left leg. But as for Lalgudi Mama, I don't think he needs to do anything. He is one of those rare persons who have internalised the Talam literally. He can 'see' the Talam in his mind.
Sathej

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 04 Jan 2009, 08:51

Sathej, right on! I think LGJ was born reading rows of numbers in laghus and druthams.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 04 Jan 2009, 08:52

Also, I was never trained to put tala in my leg (my teacher would put tala as I played and I just watched), so I was wondering how those of you who have managed it initiated yourselves. How did you go about it?

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 04 Jan 2009, 14:04

It is easier to start from Sarali varisai. s r g m p d n s. you would knwo where to tap for aadhi. from there on starts your practice of time gap for each taala and with alankaram too it becomes easier.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 06 Jan 2009, 13:53

I was expecting many more replies for this. Why is that everyone is shying away when it comes to talam.

Expecting some inputs from veterans -I would like to know how Sharmaji maintained the talam and which leg does he tap.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 06 Jan 2009, 14:57

Even if banned from physically putting talam, I would be much more accurate singing than playing the violin. It's just that what I think can just come out of my throat. I guess the idea is to first internalise music and the instrument to one's hand as much as it is to one's throat ... talam will then become a cakewalk. You can probably play some standard songs thinking about what you want to eat for dinner today.

KNV · Post by **KNV** » 10 Jan 2009, 14:22

I do not know which leg is used for keeping tala by violonist. But an interesting obseravtion made by a Maha Vidwan to me. "Most of the violonists keep tala in their feet, some on the bow (like M.Chandrasekaran). But there is only one who keeps in his mind". Any guess. None other than the great Maestro Lalgudi Jayaraman. Some ahve already said it but coming from a another vidwan I thought i would share it.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 10 Jan 2009, 19:33

Like Srichitra says, Lalgudi is indeed seen tapping his left foot when he plays.

I am curious to know which maha vidwan said this about Lalgudi. Note that Lalgudi tapping his foot does not contradict the vidwan: the kind of svarams Lalgudi comes up with cannot come if the tapping foot and mind are disjoint.

KNV · Post by **KNV** » 10 Jan 2009, 22:59

srikant1987
Let us not bother who said it. Semmangudi mama once said that when Lalgudi accompanies he kindles your imagination in swara singing. Almost all musicians have great reverence for Lalgudi's laya gnanam. For me the dream violonist is one with TNK bowing, Lalgudi vidwat & some streaks of MSG. Not an easy thing to achieve. But there is none till date.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 11 Jan 2009, 07:17

OK ... can I at least know if they are a vocalist, another violinist, or play some melodic instrument or a percussion instrument?

KNV · Post by **KNV** » 11 Jan 2009, 16:23

He is a Sangeetha Kalanidhi

and =D

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 11 Jan 2009, 18:23

knv is going to ansnwer in installments.
wait for the next bit ....

cameo · Post by **cameo** » 23 Jan 2009, 08:15

while tracking the thala with leg,how is it differentiated, i mean tapping and turning the palm.
or is it ignored...?

bala · Post by **bala** » 03 Feb 2009, 09:15

Can someone give me MMI's English Notes.
thanks

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 06 Feb 2009, 09:29

KNV wrote:srikant1987
For me the dream violonist is one with TNK bowing, Lalgudi vidwat & some streaks of MSG. Not an easy thing to achieve. But there is none till date.

KNV sir, in this , my opinion will be Sri.V.V.Subramaniam.. IMHO, he is an epitomme of all the three which you have mentioned

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 06 Feb 2009, 10:33

There is literally no one to match MSG"s control over violin in indian system of music. His single string flawless ata tala kalyani varna at high speed stands testimony to it. I remember mysore nagaraj saying " even if i have to practice for 500 years i doubt if I would get the perfection of MSG". There is no musician except MSG who is well versed and hindustani and Carnatic both. And it is a great achievement. Knowledged people would knwo that these 2 systems have diferent styles though having the same swaras. MSG is an equally revered person in north india. I am afraid i cannot accept anyone at par with MSG in terms of control of violin. music is a subjective term but pitch perfection irrespetive of speed is a more concrete terms. very much discernible.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 06 Feb 2009, 10:47

Well, this has become a battle!

Speed isn't the only thing that makes pitch perfection difficult to achieve: the sharpness with which a note is hit also matters, at least on the violin. There's a lot of possibility for just "rubbing around" a note in violin, unlike, say, the veena.

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 06 Feb 2009, 11:24

I think this discussion is deviating from the intent of the original post, which is about keeping Taala with the foot. I am eagerly hoping that someone will describe useful techniques.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Feb 2009, 17:30

For technical mastery and wizardry, I doubt that I will ever see the like of L. Subramaniam. I don't go to his concerts any longer, since he failed to show up for one in London some years back, but that is another thing altogether.

For speed; I have his CD where he plays Hamsadvani varnum, at a number of speeds that I can't even count --- but past two or three speeds, it is maths and physical dexterity, not music.

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 06 Feb 2009, 18:13

L.subramanium is entirely different NICK. he plays plain notes once he crosses a certain speed. for speed and and still retaining our indian style of gamakam you should listen to MSG s hindustani or that of N.Rajam. L.Subramanium plays in western style the hamsadwani that i have heard.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Feb 2009, 20:04

I have to admit that, without being able to explain my feelings, I tend to regard him as an American musician rather than an Indian one. I would not, personally, include his name with those of MSG, TNK, LGJ. To be fair to him, there is a lot more to his music than just showing off, and --- if I am asked to recommend a book on carnatic music that is readable for a westerner, his is excellent.

I think this discussion is deviating from the intent of the original post, which is about keeping Taala with the foot

What more to be said? We have, in our music, mostly laghus, drutams, anadrutums; claps, waves; we have two feet....

Now someone will come and tell us how they witnessed kakapadam put with the foot --- and we, inlcuding me, will all be astonished! Perhaps it's better not to think that all has been said...

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 06 Feb 2009, 22:24

bilahari wrote:Also, I was never trained to put tala in my leg (my teacher would put tala as I played and I just watched), so I was wondering how those of you who have managed it initiated yourselves. How did you go about it?

As a vocal student I have had the same problem. When I was in music class someone else would be putting sruthi and I would put talam with my right hand. I never trained young in the art of putting talam without use of the right hand. When I got my tanpura, I had to learn to put talam with my left hand because putting sruthi with the left hand (as with a harmonium) was no longer a possibility. For a while I tried to train myself to put talam with my foot but I just could not get it done. I still try with my left hand but I start to drift in very slow or very fast cycles. (I also find that my right hand on the tanpura starts to go faster when I am singing fast pieces, which is a different topic.) The availability of electronic tanpura means that I slide back lazily to my right hand talam.

So I would like to learn from violinists as well: how did you train to put talam in your foot?

-Then Paanan

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Feb 2009, 01:22

What about when playing the flute?

ganesh_mourthy · Post by **ganesh_mourthy** » 07 Feb 2009, 21:40

it is the same like playing violin. you have to tap the legs not the hands