Azutttham, gamakas in CM and HM

[uday_shankar]

as there is a sort of arrogant perception amongst hm artists that cm is something unbearable.

gobilalithaji,

I don't think it is arrogance. On the other hand, I think Carnatic musicians and rasikas totally lack the introspection or curiosity to find out what it is about their music that makes it unattractive to some people. I personally think Carnatic music is fine the way it is, and the fact that we find enjoyment in it is sufficient justification for us to listen to it. I would gladly listen to sheet-metal cutting noises if it gave me pleasure, damn anybody who's looking for an explanation from me!

But if we're looking for less myopic and self-serving explanations as to why other people may find CM unattractive, consider this - aesthetics are extremely important to all other forms of "classical" music.

Many Hindustani musicians and aficionados are genuinely unable to get over the hump of apasruthi, lack of modulation (i.e., shouting), bad audio (typically excessive volume), tasteless stage decor, excessive intellectualization, lack of vishranti, etc that are characteristic of a lot of CM. On the other hand, a simple blending of the Sa with a well-tuned tampura is enough to send many of them to ecstacy. To each his/her own.

The fact that there are always individual CM artistes who have a great sense of aesthetics cannot hide the fact that as a culture it pays less attention to aesthetics. Hence the knee-jerk "prejudice".

( Mod note: As per members' request, this thread was spun off from this thread : http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... certs.html
Change the title to a more appropriate one, if needed )

[vijay]

My own take (CM HM) is that North Indians cannot relate to the "azhuttham" that is inherent in our music...there are plenty of artiste who sing with perfect Shruthi and without too much "intellectualization" - MS herself was an example - although she was well known in the north and her bhajans were quite popular, that was not the case as far as classical content is concerned...

[uday_shankar]

Nick, heaven help us if you left for Delhi based on my rant. All kidding aside, frank self-assessment can only be good for the system, no ?

Vijay, I think your explanation has a lot of merit. Most of our gamakas have that azhuttham which the HM folks may not be able to relate to and that may be the most important factor. It's sort of like acquiring sepcial tastes - say for perungaayam or garlic. Some people don't ever get over the hump.

[knandago2001]

For me gamak taans in HM (be it khayal or dhrupad) border on the verge of noise - though I realize it is sung with a lot of azhuttam / force and requires formidable breath control, I'm yet to acquire a taste for it. Interesting how some artistes bridge the divide effortlessly.

Sakuntala Narasimhan’s performs self jugalbandi
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2008/05/02/stor ... 870300.htm

Veteran vocalist Shyamala Bhave, daughter of Govind and Lakshmi Bhave has mastered both HM and CM. "To create an audience for the Hindustani style in what was practically the home of Carnatic music, and prove that both art forms are on common ground, she learned Carnatic music"

[uday_shankar]

nandagopal, you've just explained the azhuttham effect in reverse. I actually enjoy the gamak taans of Mallikarjun Mansur.

These azhutthams take the notes from their "expected" or "mottai" values to higher values. For rAgas that overlap, the effect may be disturbing. Here's one example:

Mohanam and Bhoopali (or is it Bhoop...whichever).

Taking a very simple pidi, in Carnatic music, we may sing a pidi like D RS D~, P,

Here, except the D, all others are plain swarams. But that's not my focus. My focus is R. For real "azhuttam", we should sing/play the R in this pidi more in the region of G2 or G3 (or even not a musical note at all but a mere inflection, a flick of the voice or instrument). Get it ? Such an inflection for the R would be unheard of in Hindustani and may jar to their ears (used as it is only to the "jaaarus" of mohanam!).

[knandago2001]

Uday: that example was really nice - made me acutely aware of how I’m "conditioned."

[uday_shankar]

nandagopal, musical "conditioning" merits a separate thread, nay symposium, nay book, nay several books ! I wonder if we both might be a study of opposites. Evidently your primary gnyanam is so deeply rooted in Carnatic music. More power to you !

Not having been trained in any system until well into adulthood and well after I started intuitively appreciating music, I have wasted a lot of time examining my own musical conditioning or lack of it. My primary "ear" if I may, is western classical where notes are notes and all very plain. Consequently, for a long time I found the "swarafication" scheme of kampita gamakas in Carnatic music very odd and "wrong" although I enjoyed the ragas themselves and I could even "swarafy" in the wrong scheme myself!

The "wrong" swarafication can take on the nature of a carricature sometimes. Now Madurai Mani Iyer is one of my favorite musicians but because he mostly sings plain notes, the "wrong" swarafication almost becomes a carricature in his music. Taking a simple pidi from his Bhairavi alapana as an example, he often sings a sequence like p d1 n2 d1 p,,, p d1 n2 d1 d1/p m,,, (vocalizing it as tha ra la la la,,, tha ra la la la,,,). Now, the swarasthana for this n2 in this sequence is clearly S. So it is really PDSDP,,, PDSD/PM,,,. That's the carricature ! But an authentic Bhairavi, nevertheless.

One of the interesting aspects of Madurai Mani Iyer's music is that even though he sings mostly plain notes, his raga swarupas are far more authentic than others who adopt a more gamaka oriented singing style. Comparing one raga, Todi, between MMI and another favorite of mine, SSI illustrates this perfectly. Now Todi is a raga that has only four "aural" anchor points - S M1 P s. So R1 is an anuswara of S, G2 is a quick slide from R1 to M1 with emphasis on the M1 sound, D1 is an anuswara of P and N2 is a quick slide from D1 to S with emphasis on the S sound. So the "carricature" version of Todi arohana would be S S/R1 M1 M1 P P/D1 S S. But this carricature preserves the nature of Todi much better than any sound of plain G2 or N2 or worse still R2. Some singers, including SSI botch up the S R1 G2 M1 sequence with sounds of R2. Ariyakudi is also guilty of this. You might hear them sing a pidi like S S R1 R2 G2 M1 where the G2 is sung with as a slide from R2 to M1. This is totally wrong and ruins the whole Todi experience. Todi G2 should always be a glide from R1(or S) to M1 never R2 to M1. Of course, plain G2 and N2 can be sung in Todi and MMI does it too, but explicitly so. Another thing, Todi can withstand, nay welcomes, any amount of P varjya and fair amounts of S varjya. These are illustrated very well by MMI.

This Carnatic music is truly amazing ! "Wrong" notes give you pleasure.

[venkatpv]

thanks for that post, uday!

[rajumds]

Mods,

Postings of knandago2001 & Uday deserve to be in separate thread. Is it possible

[knandago2001]

K'ji: Many thanks for that recording - hope to listen to it tonight.

Uday: This is a thread I followed a while back: HM rasikas comment on intonation in music (komal, ati-komal, tivra and much more)
http://forums.chandrakantha.com/viewtop ... 9&start=30
Reminds me of similar debates in CM with respect to the madhyamas in varali and begada, the saveri rishabha, gandhara in todi and sahana"¦.




Here is something else I picked up along the way - may be of interest to others

"Alap employs twelve tans or methods of linking successive notes; these
tans are analogous to the ten laksanas of the Dagar bani (Sanyal 1986).
Their names are as follows: sarak, marak, lag, dat, rula, capka, gidda, dhamalla, thok, mind, gamak, sut. These tans have been allocated to different rags in varying numbers. For instance in Bhairvin, Malkauns and various other suddh rup rags all the 12 tans can be employed, but in Adana-Bahar only gamak and capka tans are permitted. Ornamentations associated with the lighter styles -- including murkhi, phanda, gitkri, and zamzama -- are forbidden in alap as they would destroy its serious character."

[vijay]

I agree with Venkat...Uday-Nandagopal discussiosn have been fascinating and deserve to be moved to a separate thread...