Recollections of great percussion performances in concerts

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 06 Mar 2009, 12:25

There have been plenty of reviews and recollections of great vocal and instrumental concerts of yester-years, but I haven't come across many descriptions of vintage concerts in which the percussion has been particularly marked out for praise.

This thread is for rasikas to recollect concerts of yore in which the drummers were at their inspired best and produced such wonderful music as to make you nostalgic years afterward.

Please describe your experiences and share recordings if you have them.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 06 Mar 2009, 16:14

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 06 Mar 2009, 20:38

Palani for the GNB AIR recording, where he plays thani for Brocheva in Khamas.

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 06 Mar 2009, 21:33

coolkarni wrote:girish
You can double the responses here by omitting the "Old Timers" bit.

Thank you Coolji

I have made the necessary correction.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 11 Mar 2009, 12:14

UKS sir for SSI- mArubalka thani- perambur sangeetha sabha - 1967

UKS sir for BMK..This was posted in our forum.. in a mysore concert..The thani would be for just 5-6 mins but it was just out of the world..

Sankaran sir - airport concert and 1967 academy concert with SSI thani for tulasee jagajjanani...awesome stuff...

Arvind

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 11 Mar 2009, 20:07

Sankaran sir for Ramnad Krishnan's 1965 Academy concert... at one point Ramnad Krishnan tells him "Power-packed thani" in thamizh

CSM for Ramnad Krishnan's 1960 Academy... that is CSM sir at his peak... the nadam and speed are simply unmatchable

aaand Upendransir's thani for one of TNS's Bombay concerts after Kaa vaa va, the thalam control is unbelievable. He plays sankirnam extensively for 5-6 minutes and then uses 9's to switch to kandam...

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 12 Mar 2009, 13:56

if you check www.palghatraghu.com, there are 2 video clips of PR playing for DKJ. Not sure which concert it is, i think it is a stunning one. Sankirnam, Considering the rarity of CSM recordings, is the one which you have mentioned above in the 1960 academy a commercial recording>? Is it something which can be shared if otherwise?

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 12 Mar 2009, 21:43

The 1960 concert is not commercial, it should be there on Sangeethapriya.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 13 Mar 2009, 09:43

Thanks Sankirnam. Will check that out.

appu · Post by **appu** » 13 Mar 2009, 18:52

sankirnam wrote:
CSM for Ramnad Krishnan's 1960 Academy... that is CSM sir at his peak... ...

Who is CSM

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 13 Mar 2009, 19:52

CS Murugaboopathy

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 13 Mar 2009, 19:55

CSM is Ramanathapuram C. S. Murugabhupathy (the brother of Ramanathapuram C. S. Sankara Sivan). He was a great mrudagam vidwan of the past, he was especially famous for the sruthi suddham of his vaadyams (they would often be better tuned than even the tambura!) and his famous "double gumki" technique. He passed away in 1997, I think. CSM sir was also one of the gurus of G. Harisankar.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 13 Mar 2009, 20:03

What is the double gumki technique? Does anyone employ the same currently?

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 14 Mar 2009, 22:57

It is hard to describe, you just have to listen to his thoppi handling. CSM's thoppis were always kept very very low and loose, and this allowed more freedom with the gumki. I think he was able to use two parts of his hand for the gumki, as opposed to just one (normally near the joint of the wrist and the thumb).

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Mar 2009, 00:30

There is a technique of rotating the base of the hand on the skin (sorry, I cannot find the right words for this!). It produces a gumki like a deep warbling. almost like a continuous sound.

In my short carnatic lifetime, Guruvayur Dorai is the master of it. I don't think it survives recording very well, and, even live, can be lost without good mic work.

Is this (if you recognise my poor description) what you mean?

I imagine that this was how the renowned gumki of PSP sounded, but I am too young to know.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 15 Mar 2009, 08:02

Nick, Sankirnam

thanks for the explanation. I am yet trying to get the CSM recording. Somehow i cannot search from the sangeethapriya site, the search option does not seem to work for me. I am trying to locate the parent folder

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 15 Mar 2009, 09:20

From what I have learned, the "double gumiki" is a pretty much 2 gumiki's played very fast in a row. For example:, one plays

"Dhim tha dhim, tha dhim - naku tha dhim tha dhim - dhom kitathaka dhim, tha dhim. (Note every , means its the next beat and the - means that the next word lands on the beat).

The Dhom kita thaka dhim would have a double gumiki- as Sankiranam sir said it is hard to explain online, especially to people who don't really know how to play the Mridangam.

What Dorai sir plays is the Pudhukotti style (spelling error)? That is the style that uses the circular motion for the gumiki.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 15 Mar 2009, 10:18

Mridangamkid

I do know to a little extent how to play the mridangan, having learnt for some time. I do understand the circular motion which you mention here. for dhom kita thaka dhim, which two syllables get the gumki? the dom and the dhim? even if you play a fast na dhim dhim dhinna pattern the two dhims would get continous gumki , i am sure if that is what u mean. If i am wrong, let me know

As for Dorai SIr belonging to the Pudhukottai school, that is another thing. For that, so should be Trichy Sankaran's style.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 15 Mar 2009, 10:28

Sankirnam

managed to locate the concert which you pointed. Thank you very much. I shall try my best to listen to this clip and get to understand the technique. Maybe i will come back with an additional query, pl do oblige in explaining.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 15 Mar 2009, 10:36

Dear Ignoramus,

Can you pls post that link here?? even i was searching for that concert, but couldnt locate it..

Thanks

Arvind

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 15 Mar 2009, 11:00

hi Semmu

looks like it is http://sangeethamshare.org/kl/06-RK-MGP ... demy-1960/ however i am trying to search for that song, which would have the tani in it. Taken a pot shot at the biggest size file.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 15 Mar 2009, 11:13

Thanks a lot Ignoramus..

Arvind

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 15 Mar 2009, 11:22

Hi Arvind
the link i gave has the tani. It is beautiful, and as Sankirnam remarked above - the speed is breathtaking. Thanks Sankirnam for your guidance. THis is a treasure. I get the gumki's beauty here. I think i will listen to the whole concert and see, not just the tani.

sankirnam, if you do not mind me asking. I do not want to stir a hornet's nest here. I just listened once to the tani, ( i am sure i will listen much more). However the opening phrase and phrases in between, somehow remind me of what Dorai plays. Not that i want to, with your learning and experience - do u see similarities in CSM and the Pudukkottai school? ( i repeat, i have no intention to kick off any argument. It seemed to me so, i asked - could be my lack of knowledge) The speed is amazing, no doubts and so is the tone - lovely.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Mar 2009, 21:34

What thala is that Bhairavi RTP in ( in the above provided Ramnad Krishnan concert, sorry for the little digression from the thani discussion )? 4-kaLai tisra triputa? 2-kaLai kanda aTa also matches but it does not balance well to my ear.

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 15 Mar 2009, 23:53

good too see that this thread has suddenly exploded... god only knows we don't have enough laya- or mrudangam based discussions here!

MK - you don't have to suffix "sir" to my name... im only 22 years old, after all!

The thani in the 1960 concert is after Abhimanamennadu (Begada)

as for CSM playing "other" phrases... he also plays a lot of PMI's trademark sollus in that thani... did you guys notice?

Back in the early part of the 20th century, when transportation was a bit more difficult, the pudukottai and thanjavur schools were able to thrive and maintain their own identity because of the "relative" isolation - even though they are not that far apart geographically. However, once all the vidwans ended up shifting to Madras, a lot of intermixing took place. An example is how Raghu sir (PMI's student) adapted Pazhani's style in his own playing. Even now, Sankaran sir sometimes plays korvais or sollus that were introduced or composed by Palghat Mani Iyer. Ultimately, this is how the art grows.

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 16 Mar 2009, 02:59

Sorry Sankirnam, force of habit.

I apoligize, because I actually misspoke in my original post, that is not an example of the "double gumiki". I'll give you another example:

A very popular pattern played by many greats is playing "dhom kita thaka DHOM DHOM DHOM tham".

The 3 DHOM'S are gumiki's, and goes "up down up".

Now instead of playing the last dhom in normal speed, play 2 in double speed. So then it would read-

Dhom kita thaka DHOM DHOM DHOM-DHOM tham. The gumiki would then (up down up-up).

I believe that is it, however I could be wrong, if so could someone correct me?

As for the style Dorai sir plays, I believe the correct name is pudhokoti style. Sankaran sir plays the same style as both Dorai sir and Sanakran learned from Palani sir. Palani sir, I believe, was the first to start the circular motion, however I'm not positive about that. If any one could correct me, please do.

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 16 Mar 2009, 08:47

Sankaran sir said in an AIR interview that he he doesn't only play items that fall in the Pazhani school, and he called his playing a mix, including pieces from the Thanjavor style.

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 16 Mar 2009, 08:55

mrikid

Although Dorai sir learned from Pazani, alot of his formative training was by other vidwans from the Thanjavor school, so his playing is more of a hybrid than Sankaran's style

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 16 Mar 2009, 10:18

hi mri_fan

i think there has been a lot of interaction leading to absorbing of patterns/styles. Good thing in a way, i must say. Do you think CSM can be mapped or aligned to any of the major schools? Just asking. ( i am not aware of a 3rd school, hence the query)

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 17 Mar 2009, 07:29

Well the Thanjavur and Pudukottai schools were the main ones back in the day - Thanjavur so named after Thanjavur Vaidyanatha Iyer, and Pudukottai after Pudukottai Dakshinamurthy Pillai, Mamoondia Pillai, and others. There are now a lot more mrudangam banis present now since several vidwans have created their own styles and passed the same to their students. Two vidwans immediately spring to mind for creating their own unique banis - Karaikudi Mani and Thanjavur Upendran sir, among others.
Since CSM was a contemporary of both Palghat Mani Iyer and Pazhani Subramania Pillai, he must have picked up a lot of stuff from those two vidwans. The original sollus that he came up with involved heavy use of gumki on the left side, and the palm of the right hand on the right side.

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 17 Mar 2009, 08:51

sankirnam

yes, agree with Karaikkudi Mani and Upendran's examples which you cited. A bit confused on the usage of the palm of the right side - however.

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 17 Mar 2009, 11:55

Normally when we play, we only use the tips of the fingers (on the right hand) - the maximum you extend the right hand is halfway into the valanthalai, when you play strokes like "dhi" or "kita". CSM introduced the concept of extending the right hand completely into the valanthalai, such that the palm would be covering the karanai (black patch). The fingers would then play on the opposite face of the valanthalai! Nowadays, this is very common, I have seen both my guru and UKS sir do this (infact UKS sir demonstrates it for some sollus in the DVD 'Mrudanga Chintamanih').
CSM does this with such ease and felicity - in fact one of his trademark sollus for doing this is his famous "Thomthaku Thomthaku Thakathaka Thomthaku Thakathom Tha Tha"... (on the "thaku" the palm will be extended all the way, and the "thakathaka" will be played by the fingers on the right hand side on the opposite side of the valanthalai - with the palm covering the karanai).

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 17 Mar 2009, 14:43

Sankirnam

got what you are saying. was a bit confused. UKS does it and I have noticed it. great to know - thank you very much.

rajesh_rs · Post by **rajesh_rs** » 17 Mar 2009, 19:31

I don't know if this has been mentioned here already, but an Umayalpuram Sivaraman thani avarthanam for Balamuralikrishna was phenomenal. What added to the spectacle was the indomitable G Harishankar on Kanjira. Bliss. I think there's a video on Youtube as well.

Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1XIEioS ... re=related

Observe how beautifully Sivaraman builds up his rhythmic improvizations from a basic skeleton.

The following one is another thani with Harishankar and the most amazing Thiruvarur Bhaktavatsalam and EM Subramaniam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJbiILmfuPc

I guess this is extremely popular - there are two videos of the same basic clip.

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 18 Mar 2009, 00:51

sankirnam: CSM introduced the concept of extending the right hand completely into the valanthalai, such that the palm would be covering the karanai (black patch)

Dear Sankirnam,

My revered guru Umayalpuram Shri Sivaraman Sir, has told me about, shrI azhaga nambiyA pillaivAL (1864-1935/6) playing "thakadhina" using this particular stroke played with the right hand covering the entire black patch. In addition to that, employing two kita kita thaka-s consecutively in mEl kAlam was also rendered beautifully by shrI pillaivAL.

sankirnam: Since CSM was a contemporary of both Palghat Mani Iyer and Pazhani Subramania Pillai, he must have picked up a lot of stuff from those two vidwans.

I think, Shri CSM being a contemporary dosen't mean that he "picked up" from Shri PMI or Shri PSP. He is a great artiste by himself.

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 18 Mar 2009, 07:02

Erode sir, thanks for the information, I stand corrected on the above.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 18 Mar 2009, 07:39

nagaraj,
Shri Azahaganambi Pillai must have passed away in the mid to late 1930's because I've read accounts that the child prodigy flute Mail (1926-1986) was accompanied by Azhaganambi Pillai in his earliest concerts when he was around 7.

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 18 Mar 2009, 12:48

yes, corrected the above...

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 19 Mar 2009, 08:07

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 20 Mar 2009, 21:24

Thank you very much, Coolji

edpias · Post by **edpias** » 06 Jun 2009, 02:01

Hello, I know this question is maybe off the topic, but I am hoping someone can help. I have been studying the North Indian pakhawaj for over 10 years, and about a year ago I became very interested in kanjira. Are there any recordings of the great kanjira players from years past available? Either solo or accompaniment?

Thank you.

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 06 Jun 2009, 03:27

Plenty- look up "harisankar" on youtube, and you should be able to find lots of videos of him in concerts. G. Harisankar was probably the greatest kanjira vidwan to date, his speed, thalam control, and nadam being the stuff of legend. Nobody else could make the kanjira sound the way he could, simply majestic.
He was also a member of the Sruthi Laya ensemble of Karaikudi Mani sir, so if you buy those CDs you can listen to him in that.