Are there any other carnatic music forums like this one?

tribute · Post by **tribute** » 19 Mar 2009, 08:54

Hi,
I am a new member.
I went to mark my arrival by starting quite a hot topic:
Are there any other carnatic music discussion forums like this one?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 19 Mar 2009, 11:06

Carnatica has a forum but not as active as this....there maybe 1-2 others but I don't think they're too active. There are plenty of blogs though where the comments thread often reads like a mini-forum. SAnjay's is one such

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 19 Mar 2009, 12:57

None with a resounding rettai mridangam ensemble like this one! Erode and Balaji bring the ceiling down regularly here.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 19 Mar 2009, 20:50

This is the most active one (others: carnatica.net, geetham.net, forumhub). Compared to those (besides carnatica others arent exclusively cm), this is one is more active by light years, and although it has its tumultuous moments, it is clearly the best

Arun

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 20 Mar 2009, 13:02

arun, tumult-to us or tempest-to us?

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 20 Mar 2009, 16:34

Related to this topic, what happened to our grand plans of rasikas.org pins, T-shirts, etc.?

Another great idea: how about having rasikas.org 'sabhas' in various cities?
Kind of like a world-wide franchise!

Motto: music, music, nothing else

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Mar 2009, 19:32

Nagaraj,
Tempest who?
Us??

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 20 Mar 2009, 19:57

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Mar 2009, 19:58

trauma is the end-result

Arun

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 21 Mar 2009, 07:27

English language is at it's best in our forum, apart fron the subjects covered.
why worry about other forums. YAMIRUKKA BHAYAMEN? GOBILALITHA

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 21 Mar 2009, 07:42

English language is at it's best in our forum

At it's best?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Mar 2009, 09:18

ah.. picky, picky

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 21 Mar 2009, 09:40

Whether to use the apostrophe or not--
Gets tricky as you age--just as in school,
One cringed at the grammar hour--
Its (Ah, It's!) not easy, and as with
Glasses and keys, its (No! It's) best
To know eld life has it's (Oops! its)
Some not so bright moments...

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 21 Mar 2009, 13:06

Arasi, this is not just for the 'eld life' as you put it.
The 'yon life', 'mid life', etc also exhibit the same.

It's called 'inability to write correctly'. Period.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 21 Mar 2009, 16:39

I am not able to find out where I erred, or enjoy the jokes . such a dull head!!! gobilalitha

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 21 Mar 2009, 16:54

Quick aside for gobilalitha:

its --- possesive pronoun, like his, hers, theirs. Never has an apostrophe.

it's --- shortened form of it is and, like doesn't, don't, shan't (odd one that!) Cap'n etc, always has an apostrophe.

Confused? Considering that the apostrophe is also the standard way of making a possessive form, as in Nick's, John's, gobilalitha's, you should be!

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 21 Mar 2009, 17:17

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 835732.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Worl ... 059672.cms

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 21 Mar 2009, 17:17

Thanks,Nick H for pointing out my grammatical mistake, would have felt happy if others had done it. should search for my WREN'S GRAMMAR BOOK.. GOBILALITHA

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 21 Mar 2009, 17:45

nick H wrote:its --- possesive pronoun, like his, hers, theirs. Never has an apostrophe.

you mean possessive, of course!

it's --- shortened form of it is and, like doesn't, don't, shan't (odd one that!) Cap'n etc, always has an apostrophe.

it's is also shortened form for 'it has' e.g. it's been raining here

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Mar 2009, 19:54

This pedantic english grammar discussion does prove a point: There is no other carnatic music forum like this one.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 21 Mar 2009, 20:05

Nick

I always remembered the possessive case its as a parallel to his. Of course his would be an even more accurate parallel to its if it were spelled hes (i.e., a possessive case of he) and both with an apostrophe as in Nick's. But alas, the english language Nick's us...oops...nicks us with these chaotic jumble of contradictory rules. All the fault of your forebears, mate.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 21 Mar 2009, 20:13

Is Nick a nit-picky fella or a nick-pithy fella ? I believe the latter.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 21 Mar 2009, 20:18

Pithy, with a lot of sympathy

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 21 Mar 2009, 20:53

Perhaps the musical puritanism is rubbing off on our grammar as well! GBL sir it's(!) a fairly common mistake....leave the Wren alone - your posts are quite comprehensible to most of us - and so long as that as that is the case, I'm not sure why we need to turn every discussion board into a TOEFL lecture. We're doing damn well with this language considering that it's alien to most of us...the knowledge of English is the most ridiculously over-valued quality in this country

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 21 Mar 2009, 22:58

ragam-talam, I never claimed to be able to spell!

I am very bad at spelling.

Uday... there is a common usage of apostrophes in UK called the Greengrocer's Apostrophe --- where-ever you see an 's'. put an apostrophe in front of it! And it is taking over!

Vijay... How I wish that a knowledge of English was more valued in UK! Thank you, though, for that lovely example of what is technically known as hyperbole

No... I do not think there are any other carnatic music forums that are anything like this one!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Mar 2009, 00:22

Nick, I wish I were exaggerating - unfortunately, it is quite true that fluency in English counts for much more than grey matter...it is hard to describe what a huge barrier, not knowing the language can impose...perhaps, even more so than caste or income. Non-speakers are limited to the following career options - Politics, movies, cricket and CM

Maybe I shouldn't complaining since I have profited considerably from my relative proficiency in it...not to forget my debt for pretty much all the books I've read! A bittersweet relationship indeed...

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Mar 2009, 00:41

There is also the Sangeethapriya-associated music sharing forum:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ra ... a-dot-net/
Worth subscribing to to keep abreast of uploads and activity on Sangeethapriya.

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 22 Mar 2009, 00:59

arasi wrote:Pithy, with a lot of sympathy

In this mobile age, most of us are sim-pathy only... where some are prepaid and some are postpaid and we, at times remain unpaid without an attention paid(unanswered posts).

Ok, I better stop before anyone could say, "p(f)Orum.. pOidu"¦"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Mar 2009, 04:14

Other features about this forum are the age span of its members, and their worldwide geographical locations. While some of us behave at times like youngsters, some young ones here can be serious and can come up with wisdom. I think variety, vidvat (in many cases) and a sense of humor keeps us CM lovers together and also allows us to spar sportively among us.
By the way, CML (singular, pertaining to one particular individual) is making himself scarce. What are CM lovers without CML? Just Plural?

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 22 Mar 2009, 06:15

vijay wrote:We're doing damn well with this language considering that it's alien to most of us...the knowledge of English is the most ridiculously over-valued quality in this country

Well, English is as much an Indian language as any other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_English

Inglish expressions such as "Do the needful" are making their presence felt in the language.

In any case, it's better than the alternative: knowledge of Hindi being a requirement to get ahead!
(Inspite of crores of rupees having been spent by the babus on the hindi-isation of India, English is still the lingua franca of educated Indians.)

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 22 Mar 2009, 06:18

Also, there's been a long-standing relationship between CM and English.
Thank god we have our GNBs, MLVs, MSs, TNSs, et al - rather than, e.g. Ma Sha Su for MS!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Mar 2009, 11:15

Off-topic on the language thing...

I find that I get very irritated, on other forums, by foreigners (especially those planning to visit S. India) assuming that Hindi is the language of India.

Perhaps I am becoming the only Tamil language chauvinist who doesn't even speak the language himself!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Mar 2009, 11:19

>Perhaps I am becoming the only Tamil language chauvinist who doesn't even speak the language himself!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Mar 2009, 11:27

Nick, it's sure better than foreigners thinking we all speak Indian!

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 22 Mar 2009, 12:26

Ragam Tanam - in retrospect, it is probably a good thing that English emerged as the Lingua Franca - certainly good for business and for the middle class. But I am not so sure about the masses - their alienation from white collared jobs continues - and in most cases, even a college/professional education does not help. I remain convinced that a stronger bi-lingual emphasis ought to have been given to business and government communications - let's say like Israel, where people are typically fluent in both English and Hebrew.

Hindi was a good practical choice as an secondary option to English - unfortunately it got consumed by political rhetoric. Strange that some people can accept English but not Hindi!

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 22 Mar 2009, 14:10

tribute wrote:Are there any other carnatic music discussion forums like this one?

Tribute, the first internet group rec.music.indian.classical was formed in Jan 1992, seventeen years ago. This was a USENET group (pre- worldwideweb) and featured both CM and HM. Somewhere along the way google acquired the archives, and the group may be viewed and searched at
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.musi ... ical/about

The CM content on rmic fell with the rise of other groups such as forumhub and sangeetham, but there were some pretty lively discussions going on, for a while.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 22 Mar 2009, 15:29

vijay wrote:I remain convinced that a stronger bi-lingual emphasis ought to have been given to business and government communications

I agree. And this is exactly what our babus refused to do when India got her independence, instead insisting on pouring crores of rupees down the Hindi hole. (I remember there was a time when central govt employees were even asked to sign in Hindi!)

The fact that the Indian diaspora is doing so well around the world is a standing testament to the positive benefits of English education in India. I hear even the hindi chauvinist babus send their kids to US univs!

The solution to the language divide is more English, not less. And I don't mean at the expense of the local language.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Mar 2009, 15:32

bilahari wrote:Nick, it's sure better than foreigners thinking we all speak Indian!

And better still than being asked if people speak Hindu!

Sreeni Rajarao · Post by **Sreeni Rajarao** » 22 Mar 2009, 15:55

vainika wrote:
tribute wrote:Are there any other carnatic music discussion forums like this one?
Tribute, the first internet group rec.music.indian.classical was formed in Jan 1992, seventeen years ago. This was a USENET group (pre- worldwideweb) and featured both CM and HM. Somewhere along the way google acquired the archives, and the group may be viewed and searched at
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.musi ... ical/about

The CM content on rmic fell with the rise of other groups such as forumhub and sangeetham, but there were some pretty lively discussions going on, for a while.

Ramki,
RMIC (rec.music.indian.classical) must have been formed earlier than 1992. During my university days in 1990-91, I used to spend a lot of hours in the computer lab enjoying some of those USENET groups. They were a delight. There were also several soc.cultural.india. USENET groups where there were some fantastic writers (C P Ravikumar, Ramesh Mahadevan, ......).

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 22 Mar 2009, 16:15

Well, thanks to my apostrophe. rasikas have posted a shipload of excellent replies, both prose and poetry. Undoubtedly English language is at it's( very sorry, should be its) best in our forum . I have also posted a letter to ''learn English colUmn of tuesday 'the Hindu' , about the usage of it's or its. Let me await the reply. . very often , in such cases it argues favourably forboth sides of the questions raised. L et us pay a tribute to tribute for starting the discussion. He would have realised HOW INTERESTING OUR FORUM DISCUSSIONS ARE . GOBILALITHA

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 22 Mar 2009, 16:47

Sreeni Rajarao wrote:RMIC (rec.music.indian.classical) must have been formed earlier than 1992. During my university days in 1990-91, I used to spend a lot of hours in the computer lab enjoying some of those USENET groups. They were a delight. There were also several soc.cultural.india. USENET groups where there were some fantastic writers (C P Ravikumar, Ramesh Mahadevan, ......).

Sreeni, you are correct: there were music threads prior to 1992. These discussions were on soc.culture.indian itself.

The idea of having an Indian Classical Music newsgroup under the soc.culture* hierarchy was first mooted on soc.culture.indian in late 1990 or early 1991, but there was no followup. After moving to the US (Purdue) in the Fall Semester 1991, I reopened the topic on SCI with a request in October 1991. It was seconded by Bal Prasad from the Univ of Hawai'i and Jouhana Kouhia from Tampere Inst. of Technology, Finland. Sridhar Venkataraman, then at Arizona State University, made the formal proposal (RFD) which went to vote and rec.music.indian.classical was formed. The first post on RMIC following its creation was by Sridhar on Jan 2, 1992.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Mar 2009, 17:10

Oh, gobilalitha --- you prefer to ask The Hindu when your very own British, neighbour member has explained it to you?

I shall pretend to be very offended

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 22 Mar 2009, 17:24

nick H, I accept your verdict. thanks. GOBILALITHA. MY REFERENCE LETTER MAY NOT EVEN REACH THE CORRESPONDENT.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 22 Mar 2009, 18:55

Bilahari,
Yes, we speak 'Indian' according to some, and 'Hindu' too Nick!

Gobilalitha,
An 'Indian' speaking editor might overlook your mail at the 'Hindu', but the sympathetic one who 'pretends' to take offence and those who really do take offence, nevertheless appreciate your presence on the forum. Power to gray panthers!

tribute · Post by **tribute** » 22 Mar 2009, 19:44

Ha! I am really sorry for starting this thread!! I shouldn't have asked a question about other forums when this forum itself is such a great one!! Remember, a forum is judged on the basis of its members ONLY!! =)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Mar 2009, 20:27

Now I can admit to not having been offended at all

Tribute: you have merely proved the point!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Mar 2009, 21:03

vainika: I was an active follower of soc.culture.indian from 1983-85 and I do remember the initiation and voting for rec.music.indian.classical . Now I know who was behind that.

There were some lively and informative discussions. It was much less anonymous since most people posted from their official university/work place accounts. Even then, there were some occasional nasty and distasteful exchanges especially from a particular poster who was extrememly knowledgeable in HM ( who is very much still around writing excellently music related articles for web sites ). Fortunately the good far outweighed the bad. I had encountered some of my own postings from back then, it is quite surreal, mainly in how my lack of knowledge has not changed a whole lot

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 22 Mar 2009, 21:48

There was an active internet before the early-mid 1990s?! The computer itself was only catching on in households in the early 1990s in Singapore and internet in the mid 90s.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Mar 2009, 21:52

Bilahari: Yes, USENET was very active for discussions on pretty much every subject but that internet was limited to mainly universities and some corporations, globally. The general public did not have access to it. All of that changed starting around 1994.

I first had access to these USENT "newsgroups" in 1983 but they were in existence many years before that. It was a different way of doing things. Instead of the current day practise of postings staying in one server like rasikas.org, the postings of everyone are sent to all the computers around the world who were part of the the USENET newsgroup exchange. So a copy of the newsgroup postings existed in many hundreds if not thousands of servers. As vainika wrote, Google obtained those archives and made it available to all.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Mar 2009, 22:45

The internet; born of the military and academia, and something of an academic techie's toy for a long time. Guys in corporate computer departments would get USENET 'feeds' because they knew someone who could give them access to the systems in another company or academic institute. Vast amounts of data, even for them, could be involved.

I'm not sure how it spread out to the more general public from there, but there were bulletin boards pre-WWW, and I belonged to a large one, CIX, in UK. They had a newsgroup gateway, at first readonly, then it became active both ways.

rmic was all we had. It suffered from some nasty attacks of political extremism, and the demands on etiquette were high. One had to be very careful with ones IMHOs (In my humble opinion) to avoid being accused of stating facts.

Still, I have good memories of it, as a resource, and as part of my introduction to the internet.

In more recent times, there was forumhub. I think there still is, and that it still might have a carnatic section. I think a good few people here might have been forumhub regulars once.

Of course, we have our troubles here from time to time, and I'd be the last to claim never to be bad-tempered --- but arasi usually calms me down again!