Shishyas on Stage

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 17 Mar 2009, 16:33

Often in concerts we notice one or two shishyas sitting behind the guru strumming the Tambura. And if it is a TMK concert, he has his full class behind him (as it happened in a recent Bangalore concert). MY question is, what do the students gain by this , especially if they are not providing vocal support?
What is so special about sitting behind the guru, that cannot be learnt sitting on the front row?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 17 Mar 2009, 18:59

Nothing special...nothing wrong either...sometimes handy for passing on chits/water/coffee etc. although not indispensable. Students may also get some exposure although I don't know how just being on stage them can help

Personally, I think it lends the stage colour and vibrance....even if it is just rasikas sitting on stage - like at the Academy - it creates a certain sense of occasion

saramati · Post by **saramati** » 17 Mar 2009, 19:31

May be the students sitting behind their guru during concerts are able to judge the audience reaction better, and also guage the body language of the audience, atleast of those sitting in the first few rows.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 17 Mar 2009, 19:33

vijay wrote:Students may also get some exposure although I don't know how just being on stage them can help

One thing I can think of is how the complicated accoustics of halls makes the performance sound differently on the stage to the artists as compared to the way it sounds to the audience.
---
And then there's stage fear also.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 17 Mar 2009, 19:37

One observation is this - almost always its either the vocalist or the Mrudangam artiste who has their Shishyas along on stage. I have seldom seen a violinist do that - be it a very senior person or a junior one.

Sathej

money · Post by **money** » 17 Mar 2009, 20:56

By this the guru may remove the stage fear of the students.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Mar 2009, 21:06

Only the other day it occurred to me to ask here:

why does the mridangist often have an entourage?

They appear to serve little or no purpose, except occasionally, perhaps, passing a mridangam that he could have reached over and picked up himself.

Do mridangists get lonely?

Violinists never seem to do this!

As to sitting in the stage to hear the concert: worst seats in the house!

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 17 Mar 2009, 21:08

or he may camouflage his stage fear with the students

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 17 Mar 2009, 21:37

@ chalanata

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 18 Mar 2009, 01:17

Well personally speaking, it is a different world on stage than it is in the audience.

Listening to one's guru on stage (from a mridangam stand point), I feel will help show the student how to actually play for the singer/song than just for the thalam. Of course sitting in the front row will help to some extent, but it is the small things that you are able to pick up on stage, such as cue's from the singer, communication with each and every player, new patterns made up on the spot to create a fusion with a kanjira or ghatam player, being able to take control of the concert rather than just follow it, and most importantly, how to think on your feet.

I'm not sure if this would be correct for everyone, nor am I sure how much sitting on stage for singers or violinist is, however for a mridangist, it makes a TREMENDOUS difference.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Mar 2009, 05:46

with that many disciples, the term 'stage fear' is really about the stage fearing its collapse

( plagiarizing rajeshnat's humor ).

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 18 Mar 2009, 07:09

I have had the good fortune of sitting with my guru on the stage in such sabhas as SKGS and the music academy, and yes, as MK said, it makes a world of difference. Suddenly, just putting accurate thalam becomes many orders of magnitude more difficult, and putting good thalam on the stage is like sitting for a PhD qualifying examination each time! All the nuances that may be missed sitting in the audience such as the subtle verbal and nonverbal cues between the artistes also become observable. Above all, it allows one to watch the thoppi handling for a change, since in the audience only the valanthalai is visible.

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 18 Mar 2009, 07:25

And also, lets not forget: practicing sitting.

It may sound like a joke... but man, sitting for 4+ hours may be tougher than singing/playing the instrument it self

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 18 Mar 2009, 07:36

Practising 'sitting', observing nuances from close quarters is rather important for students of the violin as well. However, right from age old times, I haven't seen violinists have their disciples on stage. And at times Mrudangam artistes have more students on stage than even the main performer!

Sathej

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 18 Mar 2009, 10:13

Thank you mridangamkid and sankirnam. HAving never been on stage (in any capacity), I was just curious.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 18 Mar 2009, 11:59

Absolutely agree about the sitting practice! We take it for granted, seeing artists remain there for two, three or more hours. In itself it is a very, very tough thing to master! Second to the physical act of sitting is the mental act of concentration; in fact that may be even harder to maintain.

MK's and Sankirnam's comments and experience are interesting to read --- but I still wonder why it it is the mridangist who gets to have this crew, more than any other artist on stage.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 18 Mar 2009, 12:03

Mridangists have more sishyas than others

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 18 Mar 2009, 12:12

Members

Mridangam instrument is quite heavy (ranging from 8kgs to 14kgs). So generally the mridangam artiste prefers his instrument being carried by either his students carry or by the mridangam repairer. One obvious reason is as one gets older the weight lifting becomes a little difficult which might result in sudden catches or muscle pulls which might mar the concert if it happens just moments before the concert. Moreover ... On stage experience is something which cannot be easily penned down unless one sits on stage with the artiste and enjoys the proceedings. The mridangists require the desciple to take care of the Rava preparation, water on stage for keeping the rava side enough wet and also for other small requirements. Once i was in stage with my guru for Mani Krishnaswamy and suddenly the mridangam left side got ripples. He immediately asked me to got to Madras A.Kannan Sir's house and bring an instrument for Mani amma while asking Mani amma to sing a lengthier ragam. Before the Raga could be finished I was able to bring the instrument for my Guru. Vocal artistes also need a lot of help from his sishyas apart from strumming the tambura, will have to fill the cup with hotwater or pore milk etc from the flask. One more important work of the sishya is to remind the vocalist of any forgotten lyrics.

Now turning to the violinists :

Their instrument is not that heavy. Secondly no violinist will give his instrument to be carried by anyone else. And as such the stage is already occupied by Sishyas of Vocalist and mridangist may be violinists are considerate enough in not adding to the misery of the stage where enough weight has already been added along with weighty classicism of the music.

Will come back for more.

J.Balaji

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 18 Mar 2009, 13:41

And as such the stage is already occupied by Sishyas of Vocalist and mridangist may be violinists are considerate enough in not adding to the misery of the stage where enough weight has already been added along with weighty classicism of the music.

Well put!

I'm still not convinced of the need for several people to gather around the mridangist, especially as much of the help that you have mentioned occurs before or after the concert, rather than during.

I'm not complaining! Just curious. I have my set list of carnatic-concert grumbles, and it is quite long enough.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 18 Mar 2009, 13:46

Balaji ,

You have put in so well

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 18 Mar 2009, 14:24

nick H wrote:
And as such the stage is already occupied by Sishyas of Vocalist and mridangist may be violinists are considerate enough in not adding to the misery of the stage where enough weight has already been added along with weighty classicism of the music.
Well put!

I'm still not convinced of the need for several people to gather around the mridangist, especially as much of the help that you have mentioned occurs before or after the concert, rather than during.

I'm not complaining! Just curious. I have my set list of carnatic-concert grumbles, and it is quite long enough.

Haha Nick people gather where there is action and sound. Violinists are bowing (bowing in the sense of praying or accepting etc-- i have said this just as a passing remark- no offence to violinists intended).

J.Balaji

girish_a · Post by **girish_a** » 18 Mar 2009, 19:05

From this discussion, it seems to me that the on-stage huddle of the Mridangists' shishyas is peculiar to Chennai concerts. I have been to lots of concerts in Bangalore, and not one of them featured shishyas on stage - either in an active or passive capacity.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 18 Mar 2009, 19:30

Well, like Nick, am still not convinced why some Mrudangam artistes have not one but atleast two or three people on and around the stage at times. As for observing, every disciple would like to imbibe facets from his/her Guru - be it vocal/violin/Mrudangam or any other instrument.

Sathej

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 18 Mar 2009, 21:57

As long as the people present on the stage do not outnumber those in the auditorium (audience) , it is fine. -

suma · Post by **suma** » 18 Mar 2009, 22:13

mridhangam wrote:Members

Mridangam instrument is quite heavy (ranging from 8kgs to 14kgs).

Does it weigh that much? Wow, I knew it is a little heavy, but never imagined that it would be 10kgs. Does innovation help, like make it light weight using a less heavier material?

Sishyas on stage from an audience point of view, adds color to the stage. No harm in my opinion. As members said, may be they even help with water, and other needs of artists.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Mar 2009, 00:01

The heavier ones have the best sound. Experiments have been done with thin-shell mridangams, but wood still seems to win the day.

But 14Kgs! I wouldn't like to take that weight on my leg/ankle for a few minutes, let alone several hours.

But Suma, if you think mridangists have a bad time, check out the weight of madalam; everything about its construction is massive, and I think it may weigh twice as much as a mridangam. It is a wonder to me how the players take that weight, standing up, and play for hour after hour after hour!

suma · Post by **suma** » 19 Mar 2009, 00:22

nick H wrote: check out the weight of madalam; everything about its construction is massive, and I think it may weigh twice as much as a mridangam. It is a wonder to me how the players take that weight, standing up, and play for hour after hour after hour!

What is a madalam? Are you refering to the drums that Nadaswaram vidwans have as accompaniments? That must be heavy too, they carry it around their neck with a band. Reminds me of school kids who would have to carry a heavy school bag and get used to it, while we adults feel that the bag is very heavy.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Mar 2009, 02:46

That is a Thavil, and I think the wooden shell is much thinner, so it is lighter than a mridangam.

Madalam is the two-sided drum which is played for Kathakali in Kerala. It is supported by a cloth band around the waist.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 19 Mar 2009, 03:00

As a violinist, I would prefer to sit in front of my guru and watch him play, observe his bowing technique and the fingering etc. So, the ideal place to sit is to sit with the audience in the first row. Invariably, this is not possible all the time and hence I prefer to stand on the side, and observe my guru.

Yes, we violinists do not give our instruments to any one else to carry. My guru carries his instrument himself, he will not trust others. Have you observed, MSG Sir, carrying his violin in the crook of his hand, does not matter the concert is a kovil cutchery or at Music Academy !! What a man !!

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 19 Mar 2009, 09:35

The mrudangist's disicple is the best reference point if you want to follow the talam, particularly during tani and RTPs

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 19 Mar 2009, 09:46

rajumds wrote:The mrudangist's disicple is the best reference point if you want to follow the talam, particularly during tani and RTPs

This is a very good point which i wanted to mention earlier in my post but some how slipped from my mind while i was posting.

Member Suma

I have one mridangam which is weighing about 13.5 kilos. Shri.UKS even experimented on Fibre Glass mridangams and i dont know how far they have been successful. By far nothing could replace the wood and the animal skins for mridangam though experiments are going on simultaneously.

Mannarkoil J Balaji

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 19 Mar 2009, 09:51

The heaviest vaadyam i have carried weighed 17 kgs... that kattai is simply solid

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Mar 2009, 10:22

And one has to have a strong kaTTai (body) to carry it!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 19 Mar 2009, 17:21

Not only the shishyas, sometimes when there is a huge crowd, many rasikas are seated on the stage resembling an election meeting . Some rasikas are also noted for singing kritis known to them, Just imagine a situation when the artist starts sisnging a favourite song and the crowd on the stage following him GOBILALITHA

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 19 Mar 2009, 20:47

rajumds wrote:The mrudangist's disicple is the best reference point if you want to follow the talam, particularly during tani and RTPs

I won't mention the main artist(s), but there was an instance where, during the RTP - a nadai pallavi was being rendered, and they were referring to my thalam as well!

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 19 Mar 2009, 21:59

mridhangam wrote:By far nothing could replace the wood and the animal skins for mridangam though experiments are going on simultaneously.

I do hope the animal skin gets replaced with a reasonable substitute in course of time.

money · Post by **money** » 19 Mar 2009, 22:48

rajumds wrote:The mrudangist's disicple is the best reference point if you want to follow the talam, particularly during tani and RTPs

Perhaps the mirdangists do not have confidence in the talam put by the main artiste. =)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Mar 2009, 22:49

rajumds wrote:The mrudangist's disicple is the best reference point if you want to follow the talam, particularly during tani and RTPs

Along the same lines, my best buddy while listening to the nadhaswaram concerts or recordings is the jAlra kid ( usually a kid, right? probably a disciple ). Can not thank enough that steady thala reference provided by the kid when the nadhaswaram goes on to some heavily syncopated playing which results in my thala sense go heavily ragged!

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 20 Mar 2009, 00:15

vk, I do not know if this happens now, but in my younger days, I have watched in so many nadaswara concerts in temples, where this tala kid had always been my reference point as well. I have seen many a thavil vidwans smack the hands of this kid with his stick for making mistakes in the talam. I can still see in my mind this little fellow cringing in pain for making mistakes. Such were the demands on the talam fellows..!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Mar 2009, 04:48

Except in cases when the stage is invaded by disciples, I like to see a few of them on stage. Adds a bit of interest to the concert. They play the tambura, listen to their gurus in close quarters and observe their interacting with accompanists; sometimes sing a song or two with them, lending them vocal support if needed, help them in procuring water and other things. Get up and speak to the sound man to convey their guru's needs. Above all, it gives them a sense of being part of the concert, this proximity to their gurus. A kind of dress rehearsal too, for their performances in the future...

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 20 Mar 2009, 05:34

@ Arasi,

For some of the youngsters these days, they are indeed "dress" rehearsals too.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Mar 2009, 07:26

True

vganesh · Post by **vganesh** » 20 Mar 2009, 08:21

I was also told that a new mridangam would be very heavy and as days (may be the wood becoming lighter due environmeny) goes by the weight comes down. Is it True?

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 20 Mar 2009, 11:26

Could be - my theory is that that is the "seasoning" process for the wood... that is why vidwans will always say that old, well-maintained kattais are better than new ones! New ones will be damp - if you stick your hand inside and feel (while it is being built, of course!), you can feel the wetness of the wood. Older, seasoned wood would probably be drier, allowing for its superior characteristics. Some vidwans like UKS sir have kattais that are at least 100 years old - imagine the quality and naadam you would get from those!!!