Translation of Samayamide Ra Ra (Behag Javali)

Aarabi Veeraraghavan · Post by **Aarabi Veeraraghavan** » 15 Dec 2008, 01:40

does anybody have any sort of translation of the javali samayamide ra ra swami (behag - pattanam subramaniya iyer)?

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 15 Dec 2008, 12:36

P: samayamidE rArA nA sAmi tAmasicakura - This is the right time, O lord/darling. Do not delay..

A: kamala vairicanudencinA - while the moon is nigh?? kAmkSaliDEradura - To fulfil desire..

C1: magaDu yUralEdu - My husband isn,t in town, nA mAmAgAri jOli lEdani my father in law isn't home
vagadega selisinadigA - ?? vaTTi pantamElara - Why this false pride??

2: mannanacE nIvu vacci - Upon entreaties, you come.. nannu gUDi yuNDinaTlu -(and) while you were united with me..
ninnarEyi kalakaNTini - yesterday night with the sweet voiced one(?) nIrajAkSa venkaTEsha - O lotus eyed Venkatesha

My knowledge of telugu is only sketchy, others can fill in the blanks/ improve...

Rigapada · Post by **Rigapada** » 20 Dec 2008, 11:58

samayamidE, Javali, Behag, Rupakam, Patnam Subrahmanya Iyer:

P: samayamidE rA rA nA sAmi tAmasiMcakurA

A: kamalavairi canudeMcina kAMksha iiDEradura

C1: magadu Ura lEDu, nA mAmagAri jOli lEdu,
vaga telisinadigA, vaTTi paMta mElarA !

C2: mannanacE niivu vacci, nannu gUDi yuMDinaTlu
ninna rEyi kala gaMTi, niirajAksha veMkatESa

P: My Lord, [na sAmi] do not delay! [tAmasiMcakurA], Come come!

[rA rA] Now is the time! [samayamidEra]

A: If the moon [kamalavairi] comes up [canudeMcina], my desire

[kAMksha] will not be fulfilled [iiDEradura]!

C1: My husband [magadu] is not in town [Ura lEDu], and no

interference [jOli lEdu] from my inlaw[nA mAmagAri]! You know

[telisinadigA] the way [vaga], why this vain [vaTTi] obstinacy

[paMta mElarA]?

C2 O lotus eyed [niirajAksha] veMkatESa! yesterday [ninna] night

rEyi], I dreamt [kala gaMTi] that you [niivu] came [vacci] with due

courtecy [mannanacE] and stayed with me [gUDi yuMDinaTlu].

--Rigapada

sridhar.vasudevan · Post by **sridhar.vasudevan** » 19 Mar 2009, 13:59

Some time ago I watched a Bharathanatiyam performance by Nartaki Natara based on this enticing piece. I found the song and the performance mesmerizing and have been meaning to post in the forums asking for a translation. Thanks for clarifications.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Mar 2009, 10:41

Aarabi Veeraraghavan wrote: javali samayamide ra ra swami (behag - pattanam subramaniya iyer)?

Is this really by Patnam Subramanya Iyer?

rbharath · Post by **rbharath** » 22 Mar 2009, 22:40

padam javali and all.. artham paatha ipdi thaan irukkum.
adhellam kandukkama vittudanum

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 Mar 2009, 23:20

bharath, I know..

This specific theme seems uncharacteristic of Patnam. Had it been labeled dharmapuri, kshetragnya or (definitely) sarangapani, my eyebrows woud have stayed put!!

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 22 Mar 2009, 23:29

In Rangaramanuja Iyengar's Kritimanimalai and Gowri Kuppuswami's book Javali, the song is attributed to Patnam.
In Sangita Rasarnavam by K.V.Srinivasa Iyengar the author's name is not given.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2009, 01:29

I sometimes wonder if the padam/javali composers took us all for idiots. Write obviously adulterous, explicit stuff, but hey if the "other guy" is the Lord himself, so it all must be good only. Yeah right.

And as Vidya wrote elsewhere, many of these were men writing about women having these promiscuous relationship. I am not sure we have compositions about a guy wanting "extra marital" relationships with the revered goddesses of the hindu pantheon. But even if it were so, that would be like Fox news' view of what is "fair and balanced"

What were they thinking? I really wonder. And this was done even by the bigger composers (e.g. even Annamacharya but not exactly jAvalis I think. For example, the padam palukutEnalatalli is fairly over-the-top stuff but involves the gods - rather than humans longing for gods in a "SRngAric" vein).

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Mar 2009, 03:05

Arun, I know what you are getting at with such Annamacharya works. Not being quite the same vibe as MSS singing his songs with great bhakthi rasa to the backdrop of tiruppathi temple proceedings, one gets surprised at the explicitness from him, thought it is still mild compared to the jAvaLis. With annamacharya, they are definitely intended at the Gods so they fall under shringAra bhakthi where as with many jAvaLis, the reference to gods is just a handwaving gesture. Of course, Jayadeva beats Annamacharya by a full mile on such matters but he is a much bigger sacred cow to even think of him in any lesser light than the highest ones reserved for the most enlightened ones. I do not know if it is his kALidAsA level command over Sanskrit and the phenomenal Sanskrit poetry that Gita Govinda is ( as I am told ) or the bhakthi inducing content itself is the reason for its high status among, and especially among, the very conservative religious minded people that many of us are/know of/interact with. The acceptable genres of portrayals of divinity were indeed quite different 500-800 years back.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 23 Mar 2009, 05:12

References to husband/in-laws etc can be interpreted as earthly attachments, and the Lord entering one's heart as the union of jeevAtma with the paramAtma.
Such imagery is used in various songs.

(In Christianity, Christ is depicted as the divine Lord, and the individual as the bride.)

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Mar 2009, 07:11

yes that is the interpretation.

I find it hard to imagine that some would need this kind of imagery to get the point of about "higher purpose" (which is diametrically opposite to basal instincts, or attachments), or that some would even think to use this imagery for that.

I guess this was used to make all subjects and emotions/as part of art and performance i.e. presuming that art and performance was predominantly religion based. That our guys found deeper philosophical, religious connection to adultery and sex etc, is brilliant - may I dare say devilish (ironic isnt it

? )

I mean we could have played in straight - love and other emotions between humans expressed like it is, and divinity related expressed like it is. We have the the former now in popular arts do today (i.e. films). Then such content as in padams, javalis, would have turned off many (like how many folks complain about lurid content in film songs), but I would think it still would have had a following (like evidenced by film music fans), for the music and even for the content.

In CM, we are now to sort of either
(a) ignore the lyrics and just enjoy the music (like perhaps some of film music fans)
(b) and/or "accept" this interpretation, which I would guess is still unpalatable/incomprehensible to many of us (?)

Arun

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 23 Mar 2009, 07:47

Arun,

I think we can always squeeze-fit anything for some "higher purpose". What if we say the house is one's mind, and spouse and in-laws are one's worldly attachments (after all, they're what put someone in grhastha!), for instance?

I accept this interpretation, and feel there should be more songs with gurubhakti theme, and some with friendship theme, and so on.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 23 Mar 2009, 07:53

rbharath wrote:padam javali and all.. artham paatha ipdi thaan irukkum.
adhellam kandukkama vittudanum

No, if you're performing the song, you should put yourself in the lover's shoes and sing or play it. kandukkama vittudakoodadhu.

But this lover's-shoes thingy is a temporary arrangement. You should not become promiscous because of it.

I don't completely agree with some of the bhakti or thatthuvam songs of Thyagarajaswamy et al either, but when singing it, one should temporarily agree -- fanatically! -- with them, to bring out the force of it.
---
Replace shoes with footwear / bare feet as was prevelant among people in the padam/javali's days

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Mar 2009, 16:36

Arun,

Could not agree more with your sentiments!!

Recently, I was going over a compendium of sUrdAs' poetry (looking for the lyrics that Lji wanted in another thread), and I was totally amazed that the same composer who gave us maiyyA mOrI has also penned what can only be politely called lascivious poetry as well! Sort of like Annamacharya with his absolutely wonderful 'bhAvayAmi gOpAla bAlam' as well as the rather explicit 'palukutenella tallI'! I am sure that mIrA may have composed some earthy poems as well (I am not sure). So, I wonder at the mind-set of these composers - they probably felt that anything to do with their chosen lord was laudable, however differently people of another generation may view them.

On another note, if we as people hearing these risque compositions feel uncomfortable, imagine the plight of dancers, especially young children who grew up in countries outside of India trying to even get their minds around these!! I have heard that for a while at least, many padam and jAvaLi classes are full of giggles and 'OMG, I can't believe what you just said'! (when I get a chance I will post my views of a performance called 'Her Story' where I was amazed at how well two such artists raised outside India did with a padam and jAvaLI).

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 24 Mar 2009, 06:47

ravi - yes. I had the same thoughts about Annamayya too. Regarding javalis like above, I can certainly make a connection between a wife wanting to meditate of a God in a household with a disapproving and demanding husband and father-in-law (who want her to simply serve their needs) to be similar to the real story of Mira. But I still think the connections are expressed in lurid terms in many songs in that if there is real message, it sure is lost in all the rest. The medium for the message here is weird in today's terms. Heck if the "absolute message" is indeed timeless, ageless, then one dares to say, that the medium is weird in any day's terms!

But then I really do not get the aspect of Bhakthi Yoga, which take union with the absolute to be like a physical/sexual union. In that regard, Mira, Andal et al. are beyond my comprehension

! I guess even Thyagaraja is beyond my comprehension. But then karma yoga, and the path that Buddha prescribes (which is not that different from Gita of course) are really the only ones that I can comprehend/relate to. If it was obvious to me that meditating on a God's name and doing Puja for hours makes one even-keeled, compassionate etc. - then I would include that. But it isnt

- atleast not yet. So bhakthi yoga remains an enigma to me.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 24 Mar 2009, 06:47

Srikant - What I really miss songs that preach tolerance, as well as empathize with day-to-day human suffering (not necessarily related to the divine like the ones in Thyagaraja's songs). Besides general religious topics i.e. praises of specific Gods, we find a lot of songs about righteousness, and indignation of "what is not right" - this is sort of expected in all religious expressions (or one could say when you want to express what is right, you inevitably have to point out what is not right!). But I guess sometimes it is counter productive on me.

kjrao · Post by **kjrao** » 24 Mar 2009, 10:14

Arun,

What you are looking for is there in 'Vishnava Janato' - However,it is not the singing but constantly trying to follow it what matters.

sangom · Post by **sangom** » 18 Oct 2009, 12:42

In the past, man had every opportunity for dalliance, romance with other women and even extra-marital relationships, whereas woman was expected to be completely chaste and free from even a speck of amorous thought about any man other than her husband. Such was the force of this injunction that stories specifically tailored for the purpose were spun off to create a phobia in the females; the tales of Sathyavan-Savithri, jalandhara-brinda (where Krishna himself cheats the pathivratha, Brinda!), jamadagni-Renuka, etc. However as time passed, the society might have found that such extreme suppression of the females was counter-productive and so the clever trick of an "one-window approach", viz., women can have God - most prominent being Krishna, Balaji, and Muruga, in that order - as the object of their erotic fantasies.
BTW, I read somewhere that Jayadeva's Gita Govinda was banned for a long time in his country, Kalinga because its contents were considered obscene.