Nisha Rajagopal in San Diego on 08 Mar '09

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 09 Mar 2009, 12:14

Vocal: Nisha Rajagopal
Violin: Mysore Srikanth
Mrudangam: Trivandrum Balaji

Concert duration ~ 3h

Approximate Songlist:

01. neranammithi - kAnada - aTa
02. vAraNamuka (S @ pallavi) - hamsadhwani - rUpakam
03. trilOka mAthAnanu - paras - Adi
04. Eti janma (R, N @ sAgara shayanu nI thyAgarAjanutha, S) - varALi - mishra chApu
05. nambikkettavar - hindOLam - Adi
06. dakshiNAmUrthE (R, S @ pallavi, T) - shankarAbharaNam - mishra jhampai
07. srIkara raghuvIra - saraswathi - rUpakam
08. RTP - kAnada - khanda triputa (eduppu on the beat after samam on the clap; not sure how it's calculated)
Pallavi line (composed by RK Sriramkumar): 'palinCuTakA naDaCi vaCCitivO, shri rAmA nannu'
Ragamaliga swaras in mOhanam (returning to the pallavi with "nannu pAlinCuTakA"), kharaharapriya (returning to naDaCi), and vasantha (returning to rAmachandra nannu) [Is harimau cringing already?!]
09. Rajesh's "Am I a toy" krithi: nAn oru viLaiyAttu bommaiyA - navarasa kAnada - Adi
10. karpUram nArumO - khamAs - khanda chApu
11. dina sharanyanE dEvaki bAlanE - karNaranjani - Adi
12. thillAna (thiranA thana thImtha...) - chenchurutti - Adi
13. mangaLam - sowrAshtram - Adi

Up and comer Nisha Rajagopal gave a good account of herself this afternoon as she sang a weighty, classical concert spanning nearly three hours.

Of course one can never go wrong beginning a concert with the kAnada varnam and Nisha sang the varNam quite well, though the tremendously slow pace she set initially led some of us to believe she would attempt three speeds, but she stuck to two. Right from the start of the concert the azhuttham and vocal dexterity Nisha possesses became readily apparent and she handled the extended tAra gAndhAram in the pUrvAngam very well (it's my favourite part of the varNam so I pay special attention to how each artiste sings it!). The hamsadhwani krithi that followed was not my cup of tea and the swaras were pretty customary for the raga (though I wonder if there are patterns still which haven't already been exhausted by decades of elaborate kalpana swara exercises in this raga). The concert came back to life with a lovely rendition of the pharas krithi which I enjoyed thoroughly, and she sang it slowly, bringing out the essence of the raga exceedingly well. Nisha bettered the pharas with the varALi that followed, immediately giving away the raga by singing an extended gA upfront (a la kA vA vA), which drew several exclamations of pleasure from the audience immediately. Her raga delineation of varALi was very good, and she covered most of its essential phrases and spent quite some time around the mandra nishAdam, and then suddenly sprung to the madhya gandhAram, evoking another round of appreciation from the audience. Eti janma, to my immense pleasure, was taken up and sung very patiently and was elaborated with a thorough neraval as well. I felt, however, that some of the neraval phrases were getting somewhat repetitive (i.e. same phrases in madhya sthayi used in tAra sthayi, etc), but I thought she did a fair job overall. The swaras were rather well done, with a noteworthy lingering in the tAra gAndhAram.

Nambikkettavar was a fast filler and although I'm generally averse to these gone-in-the-blink-of-an-eye pieces, I actually liked this rendition because it followed a slow pharas and varALi and did momentarily inject some speed into the proceedings. The shankarAbharaNam that followed would probably be my highlight of the evening. Nisha sang an elaborate alapanai which was thoroughly classical and pleasing, using a lovely swoop to the panchamam initially, and then upon reaching tAra shadjam, she provided some exemplary oscillation-laden phrases in each swara going down (S,,,,N,,,D,,,P,,,M,,, with the N, D, and M having oscillations from the notes above; very shankarAbharaNam). At this juncture, I should note that Nisha's singing style has superb clarity with respect to gamakas. Her oscillations are very distinct and the listener can easily make out the swaras involved in these and other gamakas; this is a very rare characteristic. Returning to the alapanai, Nisha produced a lovely slide to the tAra panchamam and also managed a lovely flourish from the tAra gA to the madhya gA and back up. She earned more brownie points by rendering the majestic dakshiNAmUrthE (which I've heard TMK and Prashant sing well this past season and still can't get enough of) and her rendition was remarkably clear and clean. The kalpanaswaras at the end of the rendition were something else--just filled with sowkhyam, even in the second speed. She used the madhyamam to wonderful effect in the swaras. This would easily be THE moment of the concert for me.

kAnada was taken up for RTP and Nisha produced a really crisp and satisfying elaboration of the raga, and the thanam that followed was fair (perhaps one too many alapanai-ish phrases), but the pallavi was executed well, beginning with a neraval and then seguing into trikAlam. It's been sometime since I heard an artiste, junior or senior, spend time on the actual pallavi, so I really enjoyed it. The kalpana swaras in kAnada were rather brief and I for one was not very impressed by the kalpanaswaras, with the exception of the kharaharapriya, which was well done and had some nice patterns like NDNRS, DNDGRS, etc. The vasantha sounded rather flimsy initially and didn't really get to the heart of the ragam. There was an interesting touch in returning each set of ragamaliga swaras to a part of the pallavi resembling words of a krithi in that raga ([nannu pA]linCu, naDaCi, rAmachandra nannu), though artistes have been admonished for similar exercises on this forum! But I did think it interesting and the audience gave an extra round of applause when she returned to nannu pA in mOhanam... Nisha tried to sing the ragas in reverse order at the end to return to kAnada but the exercise deflated quickly because she paused for quite some time between ragas and it's only exciting for me when the artiste suddenly and seamlessly switches from one raga to the next.

karpUram nArumo, which is all the rage these days, was a nice piece at the end of the concert and I really liked the classic chenchurutti thillAna as well (I think I didn't hear even one thillana last season). Karnaranjani was rather flat (I don't really get this raga).

Nisha Rajagopal impressed me overall with her robust voice which can reach the tara sthayi with ease (but not much below the mandra panchamam this afternoon), her judicious use of brighas, her clear gamakas, fluent raga elaboration skills, chaste and classical music overall in krithi renditions, raga, etc, and she genuinely sings with a lot of dedication and quite a bit of bhAvam. She also organised her concert very well (note how many talas are covered!) and the concert was engaging throughout. In my lay opinion, what she can improve on is her neraval development and also demonstrate her creativity more in kalpana swaras. Her shruti slipped a couple of times today but generally she does have the solid support of mata and pita. I think she'll go far in the CM world.

Mysore Srikanth was good on the violin, and his very forcible manner of playing brighas initially surprised me but I warmed up to his technique quickly. He lent supportive accompaniment, used the mandra sthayi well (especially in nAn oru and in the shankarAbharanam rAgam), and gave good responses. His varALi, shankarAbharaNam, and kAnada were very crisp. His shankarAbharNam was especially noteworthy with lovely glides to the tAra panchamam (all his glides today were spot on in shruti), a glide straight up to the nishAdam which was really melodious, and he also played some nice S-P-S phrases (but was careful not to overdo it). However, in the middle of the shankarAbharanam alapanai, he played a rishabam (taken up from the nishadam I think) that was all kalyANi. His varALi ragam also seemed to start with R3 and not the oscillating G2 of varALi, though these are very minor oversights in an otherwise more than competent performance. His swara responses in shankarAbharanam, by the way, were excellent and retained the sowkhyam of the vocalist's efforts.

Trivandrum Balaji was solid on the mrudangam, and was very understanding of the vocalist's music. In fact, all three were very much like a well-oiled machine and clearly they all share a great rapport. Balaji's accompaniment to krithis was good and tailored to the krithis themselves which made it all the more pleasant, and there was this moment during the RTP kalpanaswaras where he played just on the left side and it was really lovely. His accompaniment during kalpana swaras in general was enjoyable and the thani was rather short but fairly engaging.

In sum, a solid team effort and an afternoon well-spent. A lot of my favourite ragas and krithis were sung elaborately and it was a wholesome, satisfying musical meal.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 09 Mar 2009, 12:24

Nice review bilahari! The pallavi is: 'palinCuTakA naDaCi vaCCitivO, shri rAmA nannu' with the rAgA mudra beautifully and subtly hidden b/w the words pAlinCuTakA and naDaCi. Sri Vijay Siva sang it at Kalarasana a few years ago. Nice to know it is composed by Sri Shriramkumar [something I had suspected all along but never got confirmed]. Part of the composers' name is also present in the pallavi

Pallavi Structure: khaNDa tripuTa - 9 beats x 4 aksharas per beat. eDuppu 2 aksharas after samam

pAlinCuTakA - pA - 3 lin - 2 Cu - 1 Ta - 2 kA - 3
naDaCi - na - 1 Da - 1 Ci - 1
vaCCitivO - vaC - 2 Ci - 1 ti - 1 vO [arudi] -7
shri - 2
rAmA - rA - 3 mA - 3
nannu - nan - 2 nu - 1

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 09 Mar 2009, 12:30

Thanks for the pallavi, prashant. I knew I wasn't getting it right and hadn't noticed RKSK's name partially imbedded in it either! What is its meaning?

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 09 Mar 2009, 12:38

bilahari: This pallavi is similar in sentiment and wording to the pallavi of nannu pAlimpa in mOhanam. From the Thyagaraja Vaibhavam site - [http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... 20Paalimpa].

So "O Lord Ramachandra (shri rAmA), did You come (vaccitivO) by foot (naDaci) in order to protect (pAlinCuTaka) me (nannu)"?

Others please correct since my knowledge of Telugu is minimal.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 09 Mar 2009, 12:47

Thanks, Prashant.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 09 Mar 2009, 21:11

bilahari wrote: 07. srI kara raghuvIra (?) - ? - rUpakam

07. srIkara raghuvIra - saraswati - patnam

bilahari,
very detailed and exhaustive review , keep it coming , hope san diego turns out to be a big hub to CM.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 09 Mar 2009, 21:12

shrIkara raghuvara is in sarasvati and by Patnam.

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 09 Mar 2009, 23:19

I hope and think this troupe will have a very successful concert tour. All three musicians are rising stars (soon to be fulling shining) and I think the US audience will quickly find them to be engaging and dedication musicians.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 10 Mar 2009, 02:50

Rajesh and Lakshmanji, thank you for the info on the srIkara (never heard it before).
Rajesh, there are some very dedicated patrons of CM in San Diego! The CM circuit has grown exponentially over the last few years.

Mri_fan, I agree wholeheartedly. They've certainly started the tour on a high (I think San Diego is one of the first few stops).

malavi · Post by **malavi** » 10 Mar 2009, 07:28

deleted

nadhasudha · Post by **nadhasudha** » 19 Mar 2009, 16:32

Where can we get details of Nisha's US Concert tour?

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 19 Mar 2009, 20:34

http://www.nishaprajagopal.com/ --> "Performances/Schedule"

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 20 Mar 2009, 17:59

bilahari wrote:
08. RTP - kAnada - khanda triputa (eduppu on the beat after samam on the clap; not sure how it's calculated)
Pallavi line (composed by RK Sriramkumar): 'palinCuTakA naDaCi vaCCitivO, shri rAmA nannu'
Ragamaliga swaras in mOhanam (returning to the pallavi with "nannu pAlinCuTakA"), kharaharapriya (returning to naDaCi), and vasantha (returning to rAmachandra nannu) [Is harimau cringing already?!]

Actually, Harimau did not cringe when he heard this pallavi in January when Kumari Nisha sang it at the Parthasarathy Swami Sabha.

The reason is that Nisha sang the entire pallavi line for each one of the ragas in the ragamalika.

She did not sing "Ramachandram Bhavayami Raghukula tilakam Upendram" in Vasantha. Sge did not sing "Nannu palimpa nadaci vachithivo" in Mohanam. She did not sing "Nadachi nadachi" in Kharaharapriya. She stuck to the prescribed grammar of R-T-Ps.

She did not perform cheap tricks nor did she go for year-end clearance sales where you buy one and get three!

Smt. Charumathi Ramachandran presented her defense that she saw puzzled look on the face of some members of the audience and so she sang "Mohana Rama Mukhajitha Soma Mudduga Palkuma" instead of her pallavi line which was "Mohana Rama Lavanya Rama Rama Rama Guna Seema...". She then followed it up with "Athi Lavanya Rama..." and other pallavi lines from various krithis.

What she really meant was that she decided to pander to the Lowest Common Denominator.

Such a defense was not worth responding to and I did not though I had ample opportunity to point out that Nisha restrained herself from pandering when she had opportunity to do so.

On the other hand, some persons welcomed Smt. Ramachandran to the forum and asked that she continur to favor us with her wisdom.

I for one do not like my intelligence insulted.

Some people, on the other hand, welcome and relish it, because it affirms to them that they actually possess some intelligence!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 21 Mar 2009, 00:26

Harimau, LOL! If anyone ever wonders where all the vitriol in the world has disappeared to, look no further than Harimau's tongue (or fingertips, or keyboard!)

BTW, that was a tongue-in-cheek comment - I for one am a huge fan of his acerbic wit!

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 23 Mar 2009, 22:50

harimau wrote:
Actually, Harimau did not cringe when he heard this pallavi in January when Kumari Nisha sang it at the Parthasarathy Swami Sabha.

The reason is that Nisha sang the entire pallavi line for each one of the ragas in the ragamalika.

She did not sing "Ramachandram Bhavayami Raghukula tilakam Upendram" in Vasantha. Sge did not sing "Nannu palimpa nadaci vachithivo" in Mohanam. She did not sing "Nadachi nadachi" in Kharaharapriya. She stuck to the prescribed grammar of R-T-Ps.

She did not perform cheap tricks nor did she go for year-end clearance sales where you buy one and get three!

Pardon me for my ignorance, but is singing ragamalika swarams part of the "prescribed grammar" of RTPs? Or is that in itself a cheap trick?

If it is, then we are only debating cheap vs. cheaper!! Not much difference there IMHO. Also, I have heard Balamurali gAru singing ragamalika swarams and then singing the pallavi line in the original raga of the RTP (I think Sanjay has also done that a few times). Now a Balamurali fan (or a Sanjay fan) might say that is the real deal and everything else is a cheap trick!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Mar 2009, 04:17

Innovations of the kind which take CM one notch up are always welcome, wherever they come from. While rasikAs are happy with traditional excellence in performances, a creative approach backed by that excellence is like a breath of fresh air and opens up a new vista to the listeners...

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 25 Mar 2009, 02:50

arasi - I don't agree that all innovations take CM one notch up (particularly this one!!). But as you pointed out in another thread, all of this is subjective. What is aesthetic to you might not necessarily be aesthetic to somebody else. I was simply pointing out that different people might have different thresholds for what they classify as "cheap tricks".

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 25 Mar 2009, 05:45

Yeah, I'm pretty ambivalent towards ragamaliga swaras. After a really elaborate pallavi, I welcome RM swaras because the pallavi raga has already been exhausted and it's nice to hear other ragas. But if the main raga is hardly exhausted and has been sung for barely 20 minutes, I feel let down somehow when ragamaliga swaras start. Rather, I feel the RTP raga has been let down! Unfortunately it is the latter scenario which I encounter more often these days.

About taking pallavis back to the pallavi of some song in that raga, I'd probably find it more weird than interesting. But I don't think I'd mind.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Mar 2009, 09:00

doyoucare,
What I said was: the kind of innovations that take CM one notch up--not 'all innovations', as you seem to have read it. Yes, on top of it all, our taste in music is very subjective, even if we happen to relish the music of the very same performers!

balu · Post by **balu** » 25 Mar 2009, 09:47

Doyoucare you are in top form.keep it up.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 25 Mar 2009, 13:04

doyoucare wrote:
Pardon me for my ignorance, but is singing ragamalika swarams part of the "prescribed grammar" of RTPs? Or is that in itself a cheap trick? If it is, then we are only debating cheap vs. cheaper!! Not much difference there IMHO. Also, I have heard Balamurali gAru singing ragamalika swarams and then singing the pallavi line in the original raga of the RTP (I think Sanjay has also done that a few times). Now a Balamurali fan (or a Sanjay fan) might say that is the real deal and everything else is a cheap trick!!

First things first: you are pardoned!

Singing ragamalika swarams is fine. The idea is to sing the original pallavi line in the raga one chooses to sing swarams in. You can hear people like Semmangudi singing an exhaustive RTP in Kalyani and following it up with swarams in ghana raga panchakam. Semmangudi did not choose to sing "Jagadanandakaraka", "Dudukugala", "Sadhinchane", "Kanakana ruchira" and "Endaro Mahanubhavulu"; rather he sang the original pallavi line which might have been "Un darisanam kidaikkumo Nataraja, Dayanidhe".

It is ok to sing a few more avarthanams of swarams in the raga of the RTP after the ragamalika and return to the pallavi line and ask the mridangist to play a tani.

It is ok to sing swarams in reverse order for the ragas one has chosen to sing as ragamalika and come back to the original ragam and pallavi. A precedent for that is the chaturdasa ragamalika krithi of Deekshithar.

Anything else is a cheap trick and intended to play to the gallery of ignorant fools.

What are we going to do, should the Duelling Abhangists sing swarams in Megh Malhar or some such crap and launch into "Bhooth Motey"? Accept it as innovation?

Don't you folks have common sense?

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 25 Mar 2009, 14:42

When pallavi and the raga of the RTP are just used as a lauch pad for ragamallika swaras, what difference does it make as to what the pallavi line is. If the pallavi is sung in the main raga for with neraval & swars for say 20 mins followed by a short round of ragamalika swaras, it makes sense. But when the whole RTP itself is for 20 min, I see no place for ragamalikas leave alone with words you end it.

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 25 Mar 2009, 20:23

Harimau - First things first. No need to act irascible, but I guess that is your mojo here on the forum

Too bad for us that God allocated a big chunk of the "sense" quota to you (or at least you seem to be under that impression - so I will humor you). I never said that singing ragamalika swarams CR style was not tacky!! I was just wondering if the very practice of singing ragamalika swarams for an RTP was per the prescribed grammar. You say rather forcefully that "singing ragamalika swarams is fine" and cite the example of Semmangudi singing swarams in the ghana ragas. So (EDITED) what?? I can very well imagine people like Mudicondan or Tiger Varadachariar shaking their heads in utter disbelief at the "cheap tricks that Cheenu was pulling off"

To bilahari & rajumds point, I remember this concert of a popular artist where in the Bhairavi RTP, there were 2 avartanams of swarams in Bhairavi followed by a cascade of 25 avartanams of ragamalika swarams - ragas sung forward, in reverse order (in random order like an iPod shuffle might be the next big innovation!!), ragas with names ending in Bhairavi etc etc. So is that a cheap trick?

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 25 Mar 2009, 20:34

harimau wrote:
What are we going to do, should the Duelling Abhangists sing swarams in Megh Malhar or some such crap and launch into "Bhooth Motey"?

Oh no! To equate Megh Malhar with "some such crap" . I really dont know what to say :rolleyes:

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 25 Mar 2009, 20:41

I thought there was a call not to feed trolls. But then some trolls, who have been exclusively trolling for a lo...ng time, are even celebrities. Says a lot of about us uppity cm folks. Yes, we do lack common sense.

Arun

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 25 Mar 2009, 21:20

"You say

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 25 Mar 2009, 21:26

Arun,

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 04 Apr 2009, 16:31

kedharam wrote:"You say rather forcefully that "singing ragamalika swarams is fine" and cite the example of Semmangudi singing swarams in the ghana ragas. So (EDITED) what?? I can very well imagine people like Mudicondan or Tiger Varadachariar shaking their heads in utter disbelief at the "cheap tricks that Cheenu was pulling off" "

Soooooo well said!

You spoke a bit too soon!

Read on!

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 04 Apr 2009, 16:39

doyoucare wrote:Harimau - First things first. No need to act irascible, but I guess that is your mojo here on the forum Too bad for us that God allocated a big chunk of the "sense" quota to you (or at least you seem to be under that impression - so I will humor you). I never said that singing ragamalika swarams CR style was not tacky!! I was just wondering if the very practice of singing ragamalika swarams for an RTP was per the prescribed grammar. You say rather forcefully that "singing ragamalika swarams is fine" and cite the example of Semmangudi singing swarams in the ghana ragas. So (EDITED) what?? I can very well imagine people like Mudicondan or Tiger Varadachariar shaking their heads in utter disbelief at the "cheap tricks that Cheenu was pulling off" To bilahari & rajumds point, I remember this concert of a popular artist where in the Bhairavi RTP, there were 2 avartanams of swarams in Bhairavi followed by a cascade of 25 avartanams of ragamalika swarams - ragas sung forward, in reverse order (in random order like an iPod shuffle might be the next big innovation!!), ragas with names ending in Bhairavi etc etc. So is that a cheap trick?

If one thinks for a little bit of time (and I know thinking is so hard on the brain!) one would realize that while the old timers learnt through the gurukula system where everything was taught orally, today universities offer courses leading to bachelor's, master's and doctoral degrees in music. One could then check a textbook to see whether any discussion pertaining to pallavis can be found.

Prof. Sambamoorthy's textbook has been in use for a long time in Madras University. One would think that any information given there would have sanction in tradition. In his book, there is actually a chapter on R-T-P (titled simply Pallavi) where he discusses ragamalika swarams, talamalika and ragatalamalika as part of a pallavi.

That ought to shoot down the fancy (and imagined) verbiage about Mudicondan or Tiger dissing Semmangudi Mama's ragamalika swaram for pallavi. Or any other editorial comment about me.

By the way, Prof. Sambamoorthy is/was held in great respect by academicians and he himself was a teacher of Carnatic music, not just a writer of textbooks.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Apr 2009, 22:39

Harimau and others: Please cut down casting dispersions on other members' intellectual capacity, even if it is meant to be satirical. That is not what is under discussion. Such put downs are getting quite tiresme.

Harimau: Do you know what Prof. Sambamoorthy's source was? There were always many schools differing in such practises and I thought he took one that made artistic and aesthetic sense to him and formalized it in his books. I do recall such chapters in his book ( it has been a long while ) and I remember coming away with the impression that it sounded way too prescriptive rather than a description of the then current practises. Though my aesthetic preference coincides with yours on this RTP swara business, I do not think the various gurus and their disciples are bound by what Sambamoorthy wrote.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 05 Apr 2009, 00:24

I don't understand why there's such a fiery debate on a trivial issue like different pallavi lines. I guess tastes differ.

The only things that matter to me in an RTP pallavi are:

1) That it's not a lip service to the genre (as about 80% of all Katcheri RTP's are today)
2) That it's in a meaningful rAga (or rAgas as in the chatur raga pallavi) in whose alapana one can actually experience some music instead of inane (and sometimes insane) virtuosity
3) Not only that, the chosen rAga(s) should be conducive to meaningful tAnam singing (i.e., not something like devagandhari or manji)
4) Would be nice if the tAlam and/or nAdais and/or eduppus and/or kalais chosen are interesting and challenging
5) That the initial nereval portion is done in a substantial way, in two speeds
6) That serious effort has been put into making it a laya tour-de-force (tishram, anuloma, pratiloma...)
7) That all of the above are executed flawlessly

Given all this, I don't care about the pallavi line, or whether it was followed by a ragamalika or whether the ragamalika lines were in different sahityas.

The last time I had such an experience was a last year's Cleveland Aradhana where Smt. Suguna Varadachari fulfilled all of the above. All I now remember was that the chosen rAga was kamboji and that the tAlam was chatushra jhampa in mishra nadai. I don't even remember the pallavi line and I actually don't care

.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Apr 2009, 00:22

r-t, your point about use of vulgar words is well taken and we have edited them out. Please alert the admin through email instead of posting dictionary definitions here in this thread. Thanks.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 06 Apr 2009, 01:14

Thanks.
Seems mods were asleep at the wheel on this one!

( Mod note: Probably, but this is a part time activity for them and so such things do get missed occasionally. Do alert the Admin and give some time for the admin to act. Thanks.)

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 06 Apr 2009, 01:18

Uday_Shankar wrote: Given all this, I don't care about the pallavi line, or whether it was followed by a ragamalika or whether the ragamalika lines were in different sahityas.

The last time I had such an experience was a last year's Cleveland Aradhana where Smt. Suguna Varadachari fulfilled all of the above. All I now remember was that the chosen rAga was kamboji and that the tAlam was chatushra jhampa in mishra nadai. I don't even remember the pallavi line and I actually don't care .

Well Uday, I actually remember the wonderful review you wrote.

Quote: (Pertaining to RTP only )

Ragam Tanam Pallavi - Kamboji - chatushra jhampa talam, mishra nadai, eduppu at 2/14 from samam
"tiruvadi sharanam , o' rangashayee"
ragamalika
saaveri - muruga muruga un tiruvadi sharanam
mohanam - mohanaraama un tiruvadi sharanam
todi - kaarthikeyagangeya un tiruvadi sharanam
madhyamavati - saravanabhava un tiruvadi sharanam

One of the best concerts I've heard in Cleveland. It was a pognant moment at the end of the concert when the maami was given a standing ovation, many members of the audience in tears as the claps took a long time to subside.

Then there was Kamboji, again the raaga was developed very nicely in the madhya sthayi, some really beautiful pidis in the lower S R G M region, instead of quickly accelerating to mel Sa and belting out pidi after pidi in the PDSRGMG region. Regarding taanam, the tempo and meter of the taanam is oddly unfulfilling in contemporary Carnatic music - the kaalapramanam seems to be constantly varied giving a very jittery feel to it and then it is interspersed with long alapana-like passages! Not so with this lady. Her taanam evolved in beautiful sarvalaghu candences, reminiscent of MMI and other old stalwarts. Such a taanam has sowkhyam and is the kind which appeals to me. Then followed the pallavi in chaturashra jaathi jhampa talam mishra nadai.- quite complex but flawlessly executed (including in the half and double speed! ) without any loss of sowkhyam or kaalapramanam. Whew!

Unquote:

Please find below the link to the concert review.

http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... -2008.html

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 06 Apr 2009, 03:20

vasanthakokilam wrote:r-t, your point about use of vulgar words is well taken and we have edited them out. Please alert the admin through email instead of posting dictionary definitions here in this thread. Thanks.

Could you explain why you chose to delete my entire post, rather than leave in an edited version (possibly with the dictionary reference removed).
At the same time, you have merely edited out the offensive word in the original post that I referred to, while not even issuing a warning to that person.

I find all this rather unusual.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Apr 2009, 04:32

r-t, no explanation needed (and I do not have any coherent one that will satisfy you either.) These are all subject to the mod's discretion. There is really no time to doube and triple think each such action, and this is not the most pressing issue at hand either. Let us move on. If you still have issues regarding this, please contact the admin by email, he will sort it out. Thanks.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Apr 2009, 08:45

cienu wrote:
harimau wrote:
What are we going to do, should the Duelling Abhangists sing swarams in Megh Malhar or some such crap and launch into "Bhooth Motey"?

Oh no! To equate Megh Malhar with "some such crap" . I really dont know what to say :rolleyes:

If a Hindusthani musician decides to sing Dhenuka or Sarasangi, the North Indian audience would react, "What crap!"

I merely pay the South Indian musicians who sing Megh Malhar that same compliment! I flaunt the fact that I do not have any reasons to feel inferior to folks from the BIMARU states.

I am fully aware the Hindusthani musicians sing Hamsadhwani, Keeravani, etc., having imported them from the South. They sing them badly (to my ears) just like they sing swarams in any raga badly (to my ears).

What would be your reaction if some one sings Sankarabharam swarams with no gamakams and launches into, say, Handel's "The Messiah" as part of the ragamalika?

My reaction would be: "what crap!"

Your mileage may vary. I can understand that; I don't have to appreciate it.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Apr 2009, 09:04

vasanthakokilam wrote:Harimau and others: Please cut down casting dispersions on other members' intellectual capacity, even if it is meant to be satirical. That is not what is under discussion. Such put downs are getting quite tiresme.

Harimau: Do you know what Prof. Sambamoorthy's source was? There were always many schools differing in such practises and I thought he took one that made artistic and aesthetic sense to him and formalized it in his books. I do recall such chapters in his book ( it has been a long while ) and I remember coming away with the impression that it sounded way too prescriptive rather than a description of the then current practises. Though my aesthetic preference coincides with yours on this RTP swara business, I do not think the various gurus and their disciples are bound by what Sambamoorthy wrote.

Prof. Sambamoorthy ran music workshops in Madras in the 1930s. He wrote his books probably in the late 1940s. Certainly, stalwarts such as Tiger, Mudicondan, etc., were around at that time. Tiger also taught at Kalakshetra which was recognized as a teaching center for the grant of certain degrees in music by Madras University at that time. One would think that Tiger and other giants who occupied teaching positions at the Central College of Carnatic Music would not have allowed Prof. Sambamoorthy's book to be used as a textbook is it contained wrong information about what is appropriate in any aspect of music.

Carnatic music has certainly evolved. The modern kutcheri paddathi itself as formulated by Ariyakkudi was a deviation from tradition. But one would think that he changed the emphasis from having few krithis (4 or 5) much like HM into having several but he did not tamper with the soul of any part of the music. Singing pallavi lines at random after starting off with a set pallavi is sacrilegious, in my opinion. One could ask musicologists and musicians who have lived and heard concerts in the 1930s and the 1940s whether what Vidhushi Charumathi Ramachandran and Aruna Sayeeram did at the Music Academy with their R-T-P would be within accepted practice. The answer from traditionalists would be a resounding 'No'. Even those old-time musicians who acknowledge that music and taste in music are changing and one must accommodate such changes to survive will not conduct themselves in the manner that those two did. I can say this with certainty because I have talked to quite a few of them about this issue right after December 2008.

kmrasika · Post by **kmrasika** » 06 Apr 2009, 10:20

bilahari: Was there a recording of this concert made by the organizers? I'd love to hear the sarasvati piece which is rare.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 06 Apr 2009, 11:19

kmrasika, I'll check with the organizers and get back to you on this (usually, we are given recordings a few months after the concert).