Ragamalika swarams for RTP correctly demonstrated at Clevela

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 18 Apr 2009, 17:12

April 17 happens to be the birthday of Mrs. Gomathi Balu, wife of Cleveland Balu. There was an informal celebration of the birthday after the day's Aradhana program.

Prior to Mrs. Balu cutting the cake, Vidwan Sasikiran set up the pallavi line "Happy Birthday to you.... Gomathi mami" in Sankarabharanam and asked Kunnakkudi Balamuralikrishna to elaborate the line. Trichy Ramesh sang a couple of rounds of swarams -- goaded by some man in a tasteless golden silk kurta -- at which point the suggestion was provided that swarams in ghana raga panchakam should be sung. Sasikiran, Balamuralikrishna, Guruvayur Sri Dorai, Trichy Ramesh and Gayathri Venkataraghavan sang swarams in Nattai, Gowlai, Arabhi, Varali and Sri respectively, with Gayathri Venkataraghavan handing over the swarams at some point to Balamuralikrishna.

At no point did the musicians sing "Jagadanandakaraka", "Dudukugala", "Sadhinchane", "Kanakana ruchira" or "Endaro Mahanubhavulu". They came back to the original pallavi line of "Happy Birthday to You".

A good lesson that ought to be learnt by front-ranking musicians who have rasikas lapping up 12-for-1 sale of pallavis.

The event took place at the Ballroom of the Comfort Inn.

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 18 Apr 2009, 18:56

I remember to have read Thyagaraja singing in praise of Kovur Thyagaraja (Kovur Pancharatnam) when Kovur Sundaresa Mudaliar arranged for Swami's stay and hosted the same. Thyagarja never thought of singing in praise of the mudaliar; nor Mudaliar had complaints about the same.

appu · Post by **appu** » 18 Apr 2009, 19:46

harimau wrote:
A good lesson that ought to be learnt by front-ranking musicians who have rasikas lapping up 12-for-1 sale of pallavis.

Many a times I fail to understand the sarcasm of certain sentences. The above is one such instance. The original post in its entirety conveyed a very positive sentiment. Then why such a remark? Someone please clarify or am I reading too deep into the sentence structure.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Apr 2009, 20:08

If I am not mistaken, what Harimau means is that the pallavi for wishing a key figure in the Cleveland ArAdhanA cooperative was a spontaneous thing. Gomathi Balu who would be working as hard as she has been all these years, was sung to by vocalists who did not think for a moment that they were sharing the limelight or were not being remunerated for their performance. Also Guruvayur Dorai who can sing sweetly, to this day.
Happy birthday to a great volunteer

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 18 Apr 2009, 21:28

I would love to hear Vidwan Dorai sing, Is there anything on youtube or sangeethamshare?

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 18 Apr 2009, 21:32

I remember hearing Shri Dorai, Shri Srimushnam Raja Rao all singing in Carnatica's midnight fest a couple of years back. Both were very good, I must say. If I remember right Shri Dorai sang a Behag, while Shri Raja Rao sang a full fledged Rama Nannu Brova in Harikambhoji with Neraval, Swaram et al..

Sathej

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 18 Apr 2009, 22:18

harimau wrote: A good lesson that ought to be learnt by front-ranking musicians who have rasikas lapping up 12-for-1 sale of pallavis.

I think harimau is taking a dig at the artists and asking all front ranking musicians to learn this happy birthday pallavi and he is perhaps offering this pallavi as a sale some thing like buy 12 pallavi's get this happy birthday pallavi free.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 18 Apr 2009, 22:23

Well, harimau is talking about ragamalika swarams as per the title, so I thought maybe people sing dozens of (more than 12) ragas in the ragamalika swaram section, which he's probably against.

I'm OK with how many ragas are sung, provided the raga/s in which the pallavi is set is/are not sacrificed.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Apr 2009, 23:15

This should probably be in hilarity thread.. nice one

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Apr 2009, 00:50

harimau wrote:
At no point did the musicians sing "Jagadanandakaraka", "Dudukugala", "Sadhinchane", "Kanakana ruchira" or "Endaro Mahanubhavulu". They came back to the original pallavi line of "Happy Birthday to You".

A good lesson that ought to be learnt by front-ranking musicians who have rasikas lapping up 12-for-1 sale of pallavis.

The event took place at the Ballroom of the Comfort Inn.

With harimau, there is no knowing when he's serious and when he's poking fun, and when he's raining vitriol while raking someone over the coals! Part and parcel of his charm, and par for the course..

Let me first add my birthday wishes to Smt. Balu with the others, before pointing out that for some even more orthodox CM lovers, the ghana rAgamAlika svarams (with or without allusion to the pallavis of the pancaratna of the Saint) to complete the 'innovative' pallavi exercise (in English) could reek of 'toDapakaTTaikku paTTu kunjalam' - or to paraphrase nIDAmangaLam krishNamUrti bhAgavatar 'svaram pOTTu mAnattai vAngardu', and consider the audience that lapped this up as 'uncivilized ignoramuses'

(Part of me wonders if this is what harimau was going for all along, albeit in a round about fashion - 'vAzhaipazhattil Usi')

Should I duck for the brickbats??

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Apr 2009, 03:48

Ravi,
Duck for brickbats? I think not. After all, several threads deal with nearly the same topic at the moment: tradition versus innovation. I wonder why they have to be disparate. Someone fretted in another thread about CM being colored by HM and added, 'what, western music next'? Too late. They should have stopped the 'english note' from invading CM ages ago!
'The Man in the Lion's Mask' I bet has his own way of explaining it all. As you know, he will make an appearance soon...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Apr 2009, 08:26

Ravi, I first thought your "toDapakaTTaikku paTTu kunjalam" is about how much undue attention these kinds of threads are getting from rasikas

( now I am ducking for brickbats for that "'vAzhaipazhattil Usi"

)

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 19 Apr 2009, 10:00

As a person with links to Tanjore delta and Madurai, I strongly object to the take-over - nay hijacking - of chaste Tamil expressions by the less sophisticated & philistine Chennai crowd!!!! I demand the above posters immediately change the expression above to its purer Tamil form i.e. "VeLakkumaattukku paTTukkunjalam ..." or else ......

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Apr 2009, 11:18

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Apr 2009, 18:22

viLakku mAtrukku paTTuk kunjalamum,
vAzhaiapazhattiRku USiyum enRAl,
vITTaip perukkuvadenganam?
uDAlai vaLappaDuttuvadum tAn?

If the broom becomes a darling, decorated object-
The banana other than to nourish you-
How can we clean the house?
Nourish ourselves?

Doc, we are all for cleaning the house and for nourishing ourselves with healthy fare...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 19 Apr 2009, 20:05

Sridhar - mine was in chaste North Arcot tamizh!:P

jananee · Post by **jananee** » 19 Apr 2009, 21:18

I know this too well shankar!!!!!!!!!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Apr 2009, 23:02

Ah..Arasi, yours is a defense of the broom.

Nice twist!

Let me sweep this back to the topic of the thread.

There are many ways of sweeping
Old timers came back to the starting point again and again
As they went around sweeping the 'thAzvAram'
Raised eyebrows of younger generation
Question the monotony of it, instead
They simply pushed the dirt into the 'mittham'

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Apr 2009, 01:31

vasanthakokilam wrote:Ah..Arasi, yours is a defense of the broom. Nice twist!
Let me sweep this back to the topic of the thread.
There are many ways of sweeping

VK: In very orthodox homes, there are 2 ways of sweeping - IIRC, early in the morning, the house is swept from the back door to the front, and the dust is thrown out the front door, while the direction is reversed for the evening ritual!

jananee wrote: I know this too well shankar!!!!!!!!!

I knew you would get that!!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Apr 2009, 02:10

Ravi: I did not know that, though I vaguely recall something like that now. That gave me the idea to clear the dust here.

Let me offer a sweeping generalization. Start with Raga A for pallavi and end the RTP with ragamalika swara for raga B but do not go back to the pallavi line. In the next concert, start with raga B for pallavi and end with ragamalika swara for raga C ( or raga A if want to follow the sweeping tradition ) and so on. All pancha ratna krithi ragas can be accomodated and famous krithi lines can be used as pallavi lines. And this silly 'controvery' can be safely swept under the rug.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 21 Apr 2009, 06:13

@ arasi,

can't we also say, uDalai perukkuvadu enganam?

@ vk and rshankar

Maybe they were east-west houses near the south Indian cost. The (land or sea) breeze shouldn't push the dust back in the house.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 21 Apr 2009, 10:12

arasi wrote:viLakku mAtrukku paTTuk kunjalamum,
vAzhaiapazhattiRku USiyum enRAl,
vITTaip perukkuvadenganam?
uDAlai vaLAppaDuttuvadumtAn?

If the broom becomes a darling, decorated object-
The banana other than to nourish you-
How can we clean the house?
Nourish ourselves?

Doc, we are all for cleaning the house and for nourishing ourselves with healthy fare...

I think the expression is 'vAzhappazhattiRkuL Usi ETRuvadu' meaning to express something in such subtle a manner that is as easy and subtle as pushing a needle through a banana.
From what arasi wrote, it sounds as 'a doctor's 'Usi' (injection) to poor vAzhaippazham'. Is it because a doctor used the expression here?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 21 Apr 2009, 19:34

Punarvasu,
The expression was that of VK, and the meaning that you give is agreed upon.
The doc used the viLakkumAru. 'to explain' is another meaning of it--but he meant the broom!

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 22 Apr 2009, 23:57

harimau wrote:
At no point did the musicians sing "Jagadanandakaraka", "Dudukugala", "Sadhinchane", "Kanakana ruchira" or "Endaro Mahanubhavulu". They came back to the original pallavi line of "Happy Birthday to You".

A good lesson that ought to be learnt by front-ranking musicians who have rasikas lapping up 12-for-1 sale of pallavis.

Sure hope that the aradhana committee is planning to release this as a CD.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 23 Apr 2009, 04:42

doyoucare wrote:
Sure hope that the aradhana committee is planning to release this as a CD.

Why would you care? You relish the crap that is put out by the singers of the Snake Dance Song and the Blind Monkey Song and think that it is advancing the art of Carnatic music.

novice · Post by **novice** » 23 Apr 2009, 13:11

harimau wrote: singers of the Snake Dance Song and the Blind Monkey Song and think that it is advancing the art of Carnatic music.

Are these English compositions?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 23 Apr 2009, 18:39

No - that is harimau-speak for 'ADu pAmbE, nI ADu pAmbE' and 'man ki AnkhEn khOl'

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 23 Apr 2009, 19:11

harimau wrote:
doyoucare wrote:
Sure hope that the aradhana committee is planning to release this as a CD.

Why would you care? You relish the crap that is put out by the singers of the Snake Dance Song and the Blind Monkey Song and think that it is advancing the art of Carnatic music.

I am not sure if this is just blind rage or overwhelming sense of superiority complex that you have that makes you spew garbage like this....but could you please point out the thread (and the post) where I claimed that I relish the "crap" put out by some singers?

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 23 Apr 2009, 20:04

rshankar wrote:'ADu pAmbE, nI ADu pAmbE'

No Ravi. I believe that the Snake Dance Song is Harimaulism for Kalinga Nardana of OVK sung right down to a hissing pause by she of very loud audio levels.

svkashyap · Post by **svkashyap** » 23 Apr 2009, 20:36

A good quiz question or cryptic crossword hint?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Apr 2009, 01:32

Uday,
Harimaulism!! hari (lion) 'maul'ing?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Apr 2009, 01:43

Ah - Thanks Uday - How could I mistake that one?

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 24 Apr 2009, 01:49

Ah, I too thought it was ADu pAmbE.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 24 Apr 2009, 02:19

Besides quizzes, a new popular game to play: whatever did he mean, that man in the 'mau (ling) lion's mask?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Apr 2009, 02:41

arasi wrote:Besides quizzes, a new popular game to play: whatever did he mean, that man in the 'mau (ling) lion's mask?

We could all play that game until the cows come home, and be none the wiser!

balu · Post by **balu** » 24 Apr 2009, 08:40

how will you call mmi englishnotes as-marriage BAND song gnb thikutheriathakatil as-that forest song,ms bhajagovindam as -as unchavarthi song,dkp kottumurasae as-that drum song

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Apr 2009, 08:52

Balu - priceless!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 24 Apr 2009, 17:50

balu wrote:how will you call mmi englishnotes as-marriage BAND song gnb thikutheriathakatil as-that forest song,ms bhajagovindam as -as unchavarthi song,dkp kottumurasae as-that drum song

Those songs are initial attractions when you try to understand or enjoy CM. But once started enjoying the true CM (RTNS) then they are not really a big attrction.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 24 Apr 2009, 21:46

rajaglan wrote:
balu wrote:how will you call mmi englishnotes as-marriage BAND song gnb thikutheriathakatil as-that forest song,ms bhajagovindam as -as unchavarthi song,dkp kottumurasae as-that drum song

Those songs are initial attractions when you try to understand or enjoy CM. But once started enjoying the true CM (RTNS) then they are not really a big attrction.

May be to you its not "really a big attraction" but it happens to be a Waltz, a well known dance pattern in western music& many seem to like it; Its remarkable the composer of that tune caught on to it when he listened to a band more than a century ago & MMI popularised it with his own unique rendering. Can you define what is "true carnatic CM"? . I have been searching for it at least for the past quarter of a century. Thanks, VKV

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 25 Apr 2009, 14:57

vkv43034 wrote:
rajaglan wrote:
balu wrote:how will you call mmi englishnotes as-marriage BAND song gnb thikutheriathakatil as-that forest song,ms bhajagovindam as -as unchavarthi song,dkp kottumurasae as-that drum song

Those songs are initial attractions when you try to understand or enjoy CM. But once started enjoying the true CM (RTNS) then they are not really a big attrction.
May be to you its not "really a big attraction" but it happens to be a Waltz, a well known dance pattern in western music& many seem to like it; Its remarkable the composer of that tune caught on to it when he listened to a band more than a century ago & MMI popularised it with his own unique rendering. Can you define what is "true carnatic CM"? . I have been searching for it at least for the past quarter of a century. Thanks, VKV

According to me it is RT-song-NS. I may be wrong. This definition itself is evolving(is changing) for me.
Because it has immense scope for innovation.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Apr 2009, 20:07

Going back to the title of the thread, what IS the 'correct' way of singing rAgamAlikA svarams?