An article on MDR in today's Express

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 31 May 2009, 18:20

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... cnQ==&SEO=

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 31 May 2009, 19:30

If silence is music play on!
I can continue my sleep

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 31 May 2009, 20:08

A lovely tribute, Anil!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 31 May 2009, 20:09

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 31 May 2009, 21:04

Anil, that was indeed a touching tribute to MDR. I too, probably like many others, disliked his singing the first time I heard it, but not a week goes by these days without my listening to his music.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 31 May 2009, 21:29

Lovely tribute Anil and thanks Coolji for the stupendous Reethigowla.

appu · Post by **appu** » 31 May 2009, 21:56

Believe it or not , just this last week I stumbled upon a tape while rummaging my mothers attic. MDR/TNK/Sivaraman. The cassette only had 3 songs. Samayamithe in Kedaram, Ramakathasudha in Madhyamavati, and Bhajare Chitra in Kalyani. Each kirtanam is a master piece. The sowkyam of MDR, the genius of TNK and the brilliance of UKS is unparalleled. The thani which is about 4 mts in Misra Chapu is to die for. The raga alapanai in Kalyani by TNK is just out of this world.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 31 May 2009, 22:15

Anil
Very nice tribute and great comand over english , I would have liked it better if only MDR was written about, I have nothing against sanjay but certainly comparing sanjay and mdr's silence is not appealing that well(their voices are never the same). Appears as a borderline case of sanjay jaLrA adichufying case.

sagars · Post by **sagars** » 31 May 2009, 22:21

http://www.hindu.com/mag/2009/05/31/sto ... 200500.htm

A report in the hindu about a film onMDR

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 01 Jun 2009, 00:05

Well written; personally I have been an MDR fan even as a schoolkid.a truly great musician;pity that we lost him so early. A great loss.

Enna_Solven · Post by **Enna_Solven** » 01 Jun 2009, 00:23

I will be in Chennai in 10 days. I am going to shop for his recording, though I am not sure how many are out there.

I listen to his 'giripai' while going to sleep most nights. It is BLISS. I ignored him in my ignorant youth

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 01 Jun 2009, 00:46

rajeshnat wrote:Anil
Very nice tribute and great comand over english , I would have liked it better if only MDR was written about, I have nothing against sanjay but certainly comparing sanjay and mdr's silence is not appealing that well(their voices are never the same). Appears as a borderline case of sanjay jaLrA adichufying case.

. Take what you will - I am just happy basking in the great music of all the musicians I have the privilege of writing about!

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 01 Jun 2009, 01:13

rajeshnat wrote:Anil
Very nice tribute and great comand over english , I would have liked it better if only MDR was written about, I have nothing against sanjay but certainly comparing sanjay and mdr's silence is not appealing that well(their voices are never the same). Appears as a borderline case of sanjay jaLrA adichufying case.

I agree with Rajeshnat's observation about the comparison with Sanjay. I feel it is IRRELEVENT, unnecessary & uncalled for & only exposes the shallow nature of those observations. It also clearly shows the ignorance of the writer about MDR & his music. Just command of English alone is not ENOUGH. VKV

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Jun 2009, 01:34

vkv43034 wrote:It also clearly shows the ignorance of the writer about MDR & his music. Just command of English alone is not ENOUGH. VKV

Sri VKV,

Don't you think you are being a (trifle) too harsh?

What Anil was trying to say (he said it so well, it feels sacrilegious to re-word it) was that the profound feelings inspired by Sri MDR's singing were something that he felt in Sri Sanjay Subramanyan's singing as well (forget about the exact details of what made him feel that way) - I do not think that it was meant as comparison of the styles, or the individuals - just an intensely personal feeling that Anil shared with the readers. It in no way reflects on his music, musical knowledge, or ability to appreciate Sri MDR. What he writes is an op-ed piece and reflects what he feels. While you may find implied comparison tedious and odious, I do not think that it is what was intended. That he does so in flawless English is a definite bonus, and something that appeals to me immensely (conversely, inappropriate use of the language - whatever the language be, is very difficult for me to deal with, even if what is being 'said' is profound).

Going by some of your posts, I assume that both Sri MMI and Sri Mali touched you profoundly - and if you say so, I can assure you that we will not assume that you are comparing two very different people (unless you say so explicitly), except in so far as they had similar impacts on you; and even if you are comparing them, no one will begrudge you that.

Ravi

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 01 Jun 2009, 01:39

Ravi, you may remove "(trifle)" from your post, which is otherwise perfect

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 01 Jun 2009, 01:41

coolkarni wrote:"

As My Dad used to say
"Who cares if there is a Heaven indeed (Or not) ?
I have experienced it here, on earth. "

What a heavy and loaded statement! Thank you coolkarni for that quote

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jun 2009, 03:01

Thanks Anil for a well written article. I am also a big fan of MDR's music and some of your words give shape to my feelings about his music as well.

In that conparision to Sanjay, it is all personal feelings and there is no point in questioning or debating that. You had rightfully acknowledged in the article that they are very different musicians, in content and in style and that you perceive/feel similar aesthetics in their use of silences. I like Sanjay's music too but I did not think their use of silences to be comparable to each other. I will have to pay particular attention to that aspect next time I listen to Sanjay.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 01 Jun 2009, 03:18

rshankar wrote:
vkv43034 wrote:It also clearly shows the ignorance of the writer about MDR & his music. Just command of English alone is not ENOUGH. VKV
Dear Ravi,
Let me try to clarify my post w.r.t. you remarks IN CAPITALS- PL FORGIVE MY USING CAPITALS-after a few..... VKV
Sri VKV,
Don't you think you are being a (trifle) too harsh?....I DO NOT KNOW. IN GENERAL I DO CONCEDE I DO NOT LIKE CRITICS WHO MAKE COMPARISONS BETWEEN MUSICIANS ESP. WHEN I HAPPEN TO ADMIRE BOTH OF THEM. IT WAS NOT MY INTENTION TO BE HARSH.
What Anil was trying to say (he said it so well, it feels sacrilegious to re-word it) was that the profound feelings inspired by Sri MDR's singing were something that he felt in Sri Sanjay Subramanyan's singing as well (forget about the exact details of what made him feel that way) - I do not think that it was meant as comparison of the styles, or the individuals - just an intensely personal feeling that Anil shared with the readers. It in no way reflects on his music, musical knowledge, or ability to appreciate Sri MDR. What he writes is an op-ed piece and reflects what he feels. While you may find implied comparison tedious and odious, I do not think that it is what was intended. That he does so in flawless English is a definite bonus, and something that appeals to me immensely (conversely, inappropriate use of the language - whatever the language be, is very difficult for me to deal with, even if what is being 'said' is profound).......EVERY ONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR VIEWS, OPINIONS?

Going by some of your posts, I assume that both Sri MMI and Sri Mali touched you profoundly - and if you say so, I can assure you that we will not assume that you are comparing two very different people (unless you say so explicitly), except in so far as they had similar impacts on you; and even if you are comparing them, no one will begrudge you that..........LET ME CLARIFY SINCE YOU HAVE MADE YOUR OBSERVATIONS BASED ON A POOR SAMPLE( ACC. TO STAISTICS) & SCANT DATA( ACC TO PHYSICS). IN THE INTEREST OF OBJECTIVITY LET ME STATE 1) I ADMIRE PRACTICALLY EVERY MUSICIAN OF NOTE FROM 1945 TO 1975 & I SPEND MY TIME PREDOMINANTLY LISTENING TO THAT GROUP.
I also wish to state that I admire EQUALLY & in my mind the following current day artists I consider to be in my list of great artists: Sowmya, Ravikiran, U.Srinivas,Sanjay, T.M.Krishna among others. VKV

Ravi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Jun 2009, 03:22

It maybe a good idea to compare the use of 'silence' effectively by different veteran musicians. In fact MDR is the one who showed it as a model. But then in my view Mali is the master of silence!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jun 2009, 05:29

bilahari wrote:Anil, that was indeed a touching tribute to MDR. I too, probably like many others, disliked his singing the first time I heard it, but not a week goes by these days without my listening to his music.

Bilahari: You had expressed your reservations about Paridanimichithe before, possibly due to the rapid pace it is usually sung in. You should check out MDR's quite leisurely treatment ( http://sangeethamshare.org/sripathy/Aud ... lahari.mp3 ) .

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 01 Jun 2009, 05:59

Silence is virtue of the learned at appropriate time!

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 01 Jun 2009, 08:43

Ouch... we seem to be off on a tangent again.

VKV - I write a regular column in the Express. I am not a critic, but a musician myself and a column is what it is - like an op-ed piece (thanks rshankar) - it is a template for an opinion, and more importantly, a means of reaching out to a lot of younger readers (my core readers are 21-40, ex-Chennai, non-CM backgrounds, mainly). To be a critic requires a far deeper understanding of music than I have, and I humbly concede that I do not have that yet. I am a paltry musician myself, attempting to understand what I create, and hopefully, get better at it over time. All the musicians you mention in the younger lot are people I have worked with, and been great friends with - and that is the biggest blessing I've received.

That said, the editor's request to me was to write an MDR retrospective from my own personal experience fo him, which is precisely what I did. The only reason a comparison to Sanjay was made, is that I liked a particular quality in Sanjay's music that resonated in my mind with MDR of old. Not an odious comparison (in fact, I specifically note that there are no overt similarities otherwise). To a younger reader who might be less familiar with MDR's music but more with Sanjay's, this has the potential of striking a chord and perhaps (I am hoping for too much here) exhorting him/her to go out there, buy an MDR recording and listen to it. No more, no less.

I suppose the fact that I have been kicking around as a performer for a while and write about music elsewhere (both nationally and internationally) perhaps gives me the right to write an op-ed piece - not because I am a music critic. Please do follow my blog (madraspianist.blogspot.com) or the Sunday Express- I 've written about EACH Of these musicians you mention. What surprises me is the harshness of your tone without (and this seems to be the general trend in all critical posts on this forum) going through other articles I've written before - this piece is perhaps no.39 or no.40 in my contributions to the Express on music for the past several years!! Ignorance, no doubt, on your part? Most other members of this forum know exactly who I am and have attended my performances enough to grant me the right to write the piece, I think

!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Jun 2009, 08:50

Anil,
I was touched by what you have written.
What you say and how others have responded makes it obvious that music is highly personal when it comes to the joy of it. Music is universal in that we all love it, but even when we agree, there are shades of personal preferences and prejudices which paint entirely different sketches for each of us of the same music we agree upon. We go to the music we listen to with our own history of musical appreciation and then there are the musicians who bring their goods to share with us. What can happen is something like this: you are gazing at a painting in an art gallery after looking at hundreds of them--something arrests your progress, sparks that inspiring something in you, and if you are lucky, a moment of epiphany...

Where there is true art (which has no pretenses or lack of deep involvement ), what you experienced happens. My being away from India meant hardly any live concerts for years, and MDR was just a name I heard every now and then, especially when they were poking fun at a couple in our family who were MDR worshippers. What little I heard of his music in the beginning did not appeal to me. I did not have the oppurtunities to listen to him to slowly cultivate a taste for this musician's musician whose music has to grow on you.
I am at that stage in my life when what I look for in music is what an endowed young man like you describe in your essay. It is the pauses and more. It is a state of mind which is evoked by the music I hear.
That particular moment of discovery by MDR becomes ours. He does not thrust it upon us, nor were we listening cosciously for the sake of finding such a moment!
Getting personal now: I have heard you play a couple of times in person and have heard you with Gurucharan on two CDs. Your playing is unhurried and meditative--while your expertise shows, your fingers fly as though there is no effort on your part. I am not surprised that you are talking of the same thing which is within your grasp.
By the way, a poem in my collection of tamizh poems tries to explore similar experiences in music. How it will lend itself to translation, I don't know...

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 01 Jun 2009, 08:52

Great piece, Anil... beautiful writing.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 01 Jun 2009, 09:01

Srini
Just one opinion, as VK stated comparing silence attribute of MDR vs Sanjay is definitely not resonating to me that well. Having stated that I always love any musician , comparing TSK to sanjay is apt. Comparing MDR to any one is always very difficult , to me the closest but yet far is shri neyveli santhAnagOpAlan that too with silence as an attribute. Perhaps if you had put that NSG-MDR comparison. I would have bought an audio casette/CD of MDR to satisfy your prime intent

!!. Again I am sure you or anyone can say I am wrong as that day sanjay@newyork was that way.

One request many of us dont buy hindu not indian express, it would be nice if you put your express writings of URL in this forum by putting in the right thread (vidwan or vageyyakkarA, please do that ). Also is there a specific day in a week where indian express features your and other carnatic articles

A long silence just to end the post to take it in that MDR course . Silence is golden provided speech is initially fulfilled

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 01 Jun 2009, 09:31

Dear friends, asrini expressed his own opinion in his article.

VKV and others also express their own opinion about the unsuitability of the comparisons mentioned.

Let us not compare these two opinions and judge which is better.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Jun 2009, 09:35

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 01 Jun 2009, 09:43

Listening to mama-hrudaye. Coolji whose composition is it?

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Jun 2009, 09:46

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Jun 2009, 09:48

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 01 Jun 2009, 09:55

coolkarni wrote:And the aduchufying comment was unwarranted,Especially from a self styled reviewer , who may be seen as doing the same thing , in a different context, with a different artist.
Sanjay does not need jalras, BTW .
And so that comment may have been in poor taste.

Thank you, coolkarni ji. I was quite offended by that remark myself, but then it takes getting used to different strokes from different folks. Helps me as a musician, in fact.

Of course, you are included in my 21-40

...I thought music made you feel at least 30 years younger so you wouldn't need to exercise an extension clause

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 01 Jun 2009, 10:02

On a totally different note, I think in future it may be best to just ask you all to follow my blog (for those who are interested) - madraspianist.blogspot.com, as I put all my articles for Express and other publications on it.

The only intent I had in sharing that article was to enable those who do not regularly read either the Express or my column to go through my humble offering to a great musician. MDR in many ways represents a world to me that is forever gone. Why dilute this memory with unnecessary debates? Can we not just enjoy everyone's music in our own ways?

I do not usually observe too many performers directly posting on this forum - a loss, according to me. I tried being an exception, but I think its time I too took a bow out. Happy listening!!

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 01 Jun 2009, 10:06

I too found VKV's remarks overly harsh. If the author were criticizing MDR negatively I can understand a statement like

vkv43034 wrote:It also clearly shows the ignorance of the writer about MDR & his music.

But the article afterall is in praise and cannot offend any MDR-fan.

And sir, I would also request you to reconsider your response to rshankar.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 01 Jun 2009, 10:16

mama hrudayE is a vAsudEvACAr composition.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Jun 2009, 10:18

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 01 Jun 2009, 10:39

Anil, I hope you will continue to post in the forum.

For those who are unacquainted with Anil's music and insist on branding him as ignorant or shallow, please see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d7MUJgEyms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ6Ps_s2XzY

The jOnpuri piece is especially sublime.

S.NAGESWARAN · Post by **S.NAGESWARAN** » 01 Jun 2009, 11:21

Dear Rasikas,

The importances of perceptible pauses in between the sancharams are well understood by all Rasikas of yesteryear who have specifically enjoyed in MDR concerts. The pauses adopted by MDR have created and taken the Rasikas to a meditative mood for the seniors while for the junior Rasikas it creates anticipation as to what will be the next sancharam would be.

This aspect was answered by many Rasikas in my thread "QUIZ"

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jun 2009, 11:42

Anil: Let me join bilahari in asking you to stay around this forum and post about your articles and other matters we discuss here.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Jun 2009, 12:25

.............

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 01 Jun 2009, 13:26

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 01 Jun 2009, 13:29

and for coolji, arasi, vasantakokilam, bilahari, cmlover, prashant, rshankar - it was fun interacting with everyone of you and i thank you all whole heartedly for the support - on and off the forum. Do follow my blog, and I will enjoy writing for those whose only "agenda" is to enjoy great music. Godbless.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 01 Jun 2009, 14:00

Srini, I too enjoyed reading your article on MDR. However, I must admit, the couple of sentences towards the end where you (almost) elevate Sanjay to the level of MDR did come across as a bit jarring to me. You seem to imply that Sanjay the 'young turk' provides similar pauses and soukhyam as the great master. In fact, I personally find Sanjay's singing to a bit too loud in places and lacking in soukhyam - even though I respect him as a singer with a lot of vidwat. I agree this is a matter of personal taste, and that's the whole point.

Even with your disclaimer that the article was not about Sanjay, it did come across as a bit of a drumbeat for him, which took away some of the beauty in an otherwise fine piece of writing.

VKV's opinion may sound a bit shrill, but you must admit you have to take some responsibility for causing it.

When you write in a public forum, you have to be able to take criticisms in stride.

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 01 Jun 2009, 14:58

Everyone is entitled to a valid opinion, but I certainly don't have to take responsibility for someone's ill-tempered reaction.

Criticism cannot be a personal attack and neither can it be so loose. If there is valid criticism, and one that is constructive, all of us are capable of internalizing it. For instance, your own critique- ragam-talam. I found it well-reasoned and objective, and will definitely concede the point - to each his own.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 01 Jun 2009, 15:21

Srini,

Regardless, you will continue to have readers (maybe critics too, whether objective or subjective) from many among us. Objective criticism never comes from "everyone", that is to expect utopia. Besides, what is objective itself is a subjective argument. You should be able to brush aside things that may be irrelevant or shallow.

Ask coolkarni, he is a veteran on this topic, and yes we do all benifit from his decision to stick on... I thought it required one to be tough and at the same time wise enough to do that.

I dont see a reason why you should want to abstain, but if your mind is made up, perhaps that is best for you. Opinions always ruffle someone or the other, and there is always a possibility they are going to disagree disagreeably.

I am sure everyone is entitled to their own (right or wrong) opinions as long as they do not stoop to personal attacks.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 01 Jun 2009, 15:54

Srini,

I second the views of srkris. Your articles and posts are a delight to read. Therefore, kindly rethink your decision.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 01 Jun 2009, 16:11

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Jun 2009, 16:19

srkris wrote:Let us not compare these two opinions and judge which is better.

Why shouldn't we? After all we are also expressing our opinions! Or do some people have more rights to air their opinions (however unfounded) than others?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 01 Jun 2009, 16:42

vkv43034 wrote:.LET ME CLARIFY SINCE YOU HAVE MADE YOUR OBSERVATIONS BASED ON A POOR SAMPLE( ACC. TO STAISTICS) & SCANT DATA( ACC TO PHYSICS). IN THE INTEREST OF OBJECTIVITY LET ME STATE 1) I ADMIRE PRACTICALLY EVERY MUSICIAN OF NOTE FROM 1945 TO 1975 & I SPEND MY TIME PREDOMINANTLY LISTENING TO THAT GROUP.

Sri VKV,

I would like to point out that I did not say that you cared only for Sri Mali and Sri MMI. I have just stated that you seemed to care for their music (which is borne out by your posts - satisfying your need for the rules of physics and statistics) - assuming that I said that you did not care for the others was something you did (total lack of evidence, even anecdotal, according to medicine!

). Sort of like your objections to Anil's lack of credentials in music.

While everyone is allowed their views, and everyone is busy advising posters on how they should develop thick skins with publicly posted opinions (I agree with that, and personally recommend Ellery Quuen's recipe for thick skin - one part rhinoceros hide, and three parts armored plate), I also think that we should also espouse the responsibilities of posting in a public forum as well - to be considerate, and, as far as possible, to be accurate, and above all, to not be malicious.

Anil - I would like to add my voice as well to the others and request you to reconsider.

Enough of this - I have to collect the ingredients to thicken my exoskeleton - wonder if rhino hide will be as easy to find as armored plate (or is it banned?)

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 01 Jun 2009, 16:44

coolkarni wrote: I deliberately took a dig at rajesh ( he is one of my best friends here, though impetuous) because he takes pride in his reviewing .

I enjoy Rajesh's reviews very much, except for his repeated use of 'breadth control' in almost every single review

I await his review of a violin concert - hopefully no violinist needs 'breadth' control and so you don't have to put up with the word; not that I can think of a vocalist who needs breadth control either

except the really over-weight ones!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 01 Jun 2009, 16:46

asrini wrote:Everyone is entitled to a valid opinion, but I certainly don't have to take responsibility for someone's ill-tempered reaction.

Criticism cannot be a personal attack and neither can it be so loose. If there is valid criticism, and one that is constructive, all of us are capable of internalizing it. For instance, your own critique- ragam-talam. I found it well-reasoned and objective, and will definitely concede the point - to each his own.

This is very much true. A well reasoned criticism improves what you are trying to convey.

For all those non starters on MDR, apart from this article, listen to MDR's Keeravani alapana and one can understand the experience. And also follow LGJ's violin in the same piece. What a nice combination.
I think I downloaded from sangeethamshare.