What is ARI singing in the picture ?

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 01 Jun 2009, 19:47

This is an exercise just for fun and there can be many possible answers.

HereÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s my answer: ARI is singing the eduppu after mel-kaala swarams for the famous pallavi "shankarabharanai azhai thodi kalyani darbarukku"

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 01 Jun 2009, 20:17

I like the method of question and I have no clue!

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 01 Jun 2009, 20:22

your reasoning is soooo cooool and hilarious that i am using all my might in taking it all in!
In other words, i give up!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Jun 2009, 00:20

Incredible analysis, Uday. Quite creative in making the picture sing.

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 02 Jun 2009, 01:20

a picture worth a 1000 words!!
Enjoyed your analysis...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Jun 2009, 01:42

Good work, Holmes! the 'a' of 'ba' is what he is mouthing, it seems!

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 Jun 2009, 01:47

Careful Arasi. ARI's mouth is closed...so it is "bh" of the phrase "bharananai".

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 02 Jun 2009, 04:32

Excellent Analysis. Enjoyed the picture & your analysis toooooooooo.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jun 2009, 05:22

Mr Holmes! Here is an alternate hypothesis:
IyengarvaaL is in the proces of wiping his fingers after a discreet 'nasya sevanam'

Look at the satisfied look in his face

UKS just tuned his mridangam and showing his readiness while LGJ and vinayakram are holding the indiferent look. And M Krishnan just keeps going without paying attention

Look at ARI's left hand clenched holding that precious package of powder

(sorry couldn't contain my sneeze

Superb picture...

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 Jun 2009, 05:28

cml, excellent ! You just "snuffed" out my conclusion

.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Jun 2009, 05:41

One of my science fiction fantasy scenario is every sound made by humans ( and nature in general ) is recorded somewhere in nature ( say in ancient trees or rock sediments or some biological units that cross over to new generations or whatever ), and it is just a matter of figuring out where it is and how to read it

Your analysis reminded me of that!.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 02 Jun 2009, 05:51

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Jun 2009, 06:05

Oh really? Interesting! There is a saying kamban vIttu tharayum ( or thariyum) kavi pADum ( loosely 'Even the floor (or weaving device) in Kamban's house can compose a poem' ) and it may be literally true!!

I will have to follow up on this at the BBC site, if they still have this on line.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jun 2009, 06:11

Spoken word never dies!
If we can capture the Big Bang after 14 Billion years a mere century or two should not be impossible !

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 02 Jun 2009, 06:26

vasanthakokilam wrote:One of my science fiction fantasy scenario is every sound made by humans ( and nature in general ) is recorded somewhere in nature ( say in ancient trees or rock sediments or some biological units that cross over to new generations or whatever ), and it is just a matter of figuring out where it is and how to read it Your analysis reminded me of that!.

Ah! I too thought about writing such a story! even gave that idea to someone. Something like cracking an unsolved mystery where scientists take some device to a cave and start hearing some converstaions etc...

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 02 Jun 2009, 08:01

@ Uday

It's highly unlikely to be the bh. We spend very little time saying plosives, and it's not possible to say a "bh bh bh bh" like we can say an "a a a a" or an "m m m m". So when a photo is taken, the probability that a person is saying a plosive at that time is very less. So it's probably "m", may be the one in "shankarabharanam" itself.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 Jun 2009, 08:18

srikant1987 wrote:@ Uday

It's highly unlikely to be the bh. We spend very little time saying plosives, and it's not possible to say a "bh bh bh bh" like we can say an "a a a a" or an "m m m m". So when a photo is taken, the probability that a person is saying a plosive at that time is very less. So it's probably "m", may be the one in "shankarabharanam" itself.

Well, there's no 'm' in the pallavi. It is "shankarabharananai", etc.. Also, if you know the pallavi, you'll understand that a pause at bh on the second finger is plausible. So this may break the general rule of plosives. Singing the pallavi, which starts at the typical 3/4 (or 6/8) count of Adi 2 kalai, it is possible to land at "bh" at the beginning of the first beat of the second finger and then launch on the phrase "bharananai" 7 matras later. That's a long time for a shutter.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 02 Jun 2009, 18:02

Another possibility is that it's thani avartanam time, and Ariyakudi is encouraging UKS, while keeping beat. And perhaps enjoying a bit of 'vettala paakku' in the process? (hence the puffed mouth)

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 02 Jun 2009, 18:04

ragam-talam wrote:Another possibility is that it's thani avartanam time, and Ariyakudi is encouraging UKS, while keeping beat. And perhaps enjoying a bit of 'vettala paakku' in the process? (hence the puffed mouth)

But R_T,

In that case LGJ would not be playing the violin

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 02 Jun 2009, 18:13

And he is not - just holding it. possibly the early part of the thani?

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 02 Jun 2009, 18:15

And the other point is: with flash photography, usually the photographer would not take pictures when the main artiste is singing, instead wait till the thani starts. Plausible explanation?

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 02 Jun 2009, 18:26

As far as tani is concerned, there is only one point where the violinist will have his violin ready and that is during the final korvai. This is not a possibility because vinayakaram would also be playing the korvai. Also, clearly Ariyakudi is singing in the picture. So it is not any part of tani.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jun 2009, 19:31

Never seen vidvaans 'vettalai pOTTing' (or muRukking) in the middle of a concert

(since they like to chew the cud

Uday
can you guess who that vibhuthi paTTai behind ARI? I can assure it is not KVN

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jun 2009, 03:17

Uday_Shankar wrote:So it is not any part of tani.

Hmm, so you dismiss this possibility completely, while you are so sure that he is uttering 'bha' from the chatur-raga pallavi? Nice try.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 03 Jun 2009, 03:57

ragam-talam wrote:Hmm, so you dismiss this possibility completely, while you are so sure that he is uttering 'bha' from the chatur-raga pallavi? Nice try.

That's foolish, I'm not sure of anything. We're trying to come up with a list of the plausible and "bh" is one such. There must be so many others but tani is not even within the realm of the plausible for the obvious reasons cited. If you think tani is within the realm of the plausible perhaps you haven't observed katcheri dynamics enough. For example, it is not an alapana because the UKS is playing. It is not a taanam because ARI and vinayakaram are keeping taalam (even if you grant that mridangam is sometimes played for taanam).

Similarly, the suggestion that it is tani is untenable because:

a) no violinist in my 30 years of observing katcheris has ever sat through a tani with the violin in position, left hand in position and holding bow in hand as if ready to play!

b) Every violinist in every katcheri in my observation has picked up the violin and the bow during the last repetition of the korvai of the tani, so as to join in with the vocalist in completing the eduppu. Aha! So might this be the korvai portion of the tani ? Alas no, because no korvai in any katcheri in my observation that had both a mridangam player and ghatam player was played by the mridangam player alone. The korvai is completed in synergy and syncopation by the mridangam player and the upapakkvadyam players. Therefore, since vinayakram is not playing, this is not the tani. QED.

So drop it !

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 03 Jun 2009, 07:45

Uday_Shankar wrote: Well, there's no 'm' in the pallavi. It is "shankarabharananai", etc.. Also, if you know the pallavi, you'll understand that a pause at bh on the second finger is plausible. So this may break the general rule of plosives. Singing the pallavi, which starts at the typical 3/4 (or 6/8) count of Adi 2 kalai, it is possible to land at "bh" at the beginning of the first beat of the second finger and then launch on the phrase "bharananai" 7 matras later. That's a long time for a shutter.

I have heard the pallavi but I don't believe he'd pause at "bh" for that long! The pause would be at the ending "aa" of Shankaraa. And "bharananai" would follow after the approp. no. of maatras.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 03 Jun 2009, 08:12

Always_Evolving wrote:I have heard the pallavi but I don't believe he'd pause at "bh" for that long! The pause would be at the ending "aa" of Shankaraa. And "bharananai" would follow after the approp. no. of maatras.

True although when singing fast it is possible to land earlier and hold out the "bh" for a few matras.

Anyways I think Srikanth's solution is a better one and we should look for words with "mm" or "mb" or "mp" and such like neranammi, amba and palimpamu, etc... which fall on the second finger and then build a story around it. Any ideas anyone ?

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 03 Jun 2009, 08:53

Uday_Shankar, great thread, and a terrific Holmes-like analysis*. If by some chance you haven't read Errol Morris's series of essays in the New York Times, you absolutely should.

I have one question: are you sure the ghatam player is Vinayakram? I have no reason to doubt you, but the ghatam player looks much younger than UKS and LGJ, and the web tells me that they're roughly the same age.

*Holmes-like in that it's perfectly reasonable and quite arbitrary at the same time - which is not a bad thing here.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 03 Jun 2009, 14:40

gn
The birth year assigned to Vinayakram in wikipedia, 1932, is way wrong. Vinayakram was born in the early forties (40 I think), thus making him considerably younger than LGJ (1930) and and UKS (1935). Since UKS looks about 25, that would put the date of the concert around 1960, and vinayakram would've been about 20. ARI, meanwhile is already 70, being born in 1890...a time when Vivekananda, Patrnam Subramania Iyer, Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer and the Tillaistanam brothers (one of them) were alive! Amazing how the generations play out.

BTW, I know it's vinayakram based on normal face recognizing capabilities

.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 03 Jun 2009, 18:46

Uday_Shankar wrote:BTW, I know it's vinayakram based on normal face recognizing capabilities .

Yes , Uday is right. There is no doubt that it is Sri T.H.Vinayakram on the Ghatam. The year of birth of the Ghatam Maestro is 1942 & his arangetram was on March 5, 1955, when he was just 13 at the Sri Rama Navami festival - Tuticorin, where he accompanied V.V.Sadagopan.

The year of birth in Wiki is wrong and needs correction. Vinayakram seems to be around 16 years, so the year of the concert should be 1958 or whereabouts.

The time on Ariyakudi's watch is approx 8.25 pm (try zooming in and you can see the arms albeit vaugely

)

Assuming that the concert started at 5 pm those days & lasted 4 and a half hours , I think this must be the main song and just prior to Thaniavartanam.(not during thani however !)

Who knows Uday, your assumption may be right after all

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 03 Jun 2009, 19:26

Cienu!
We must have communicated telepathically! I was thinking to myself...Cienu must know exactly when THV was born and here you are with the information!

I tried enlarging ARI's watch but couldn't determine the time conclusively. Did you use any image enhancement techniques ? Good work!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 03 Jun 2009, 19:28

A picture they say is worth a 1000 words, and that Helen launched a 1000 ships...This picture has launched more than a 1000 words!! I am amazed at the detection skills that are going a-waste!

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 03 Jun 2009, 22:36

Ha Ha, Uday! That must have been some telepathy !

I cut ARI's watch and pasted it on MS Office Picture Manager tool. Subsequently brightened the picture and tried to reduce the contrast a wee bit. And hey presto ! Could vaugely see that the time was 8.25 and the "seconds" arm is hovering around 10 seconds.

Just cut and paste the image below and zoom on the image so that it is double the present size and you can see the contours of the arms of ARI's watch.

The pensive look on Vinayakram's face is a give away as the much anticipated thani is fast approaching. Playing in front of giants like ARI,LGJ and UKS must have given the young Vikku, butterflies in the stomach !

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Jun 2009, 23:12

Brilliant assistant sleuth

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Jun 2009, 23:25

You can also see the pinpATTu clearly saying 'bha' here

Who is it?

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 03 Jun 2009, 23:35

In fact, everyone on the stage seems to be saying 'bha'! Case closed.

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 04 Jun 2009, 00:40

CML - to me the pin-pAttu doesn't seem to be saying that at all!

Moreover vocal support usually only keeps thaalam during most parts of a pallavi! I am assuming ARI didn't sing canned swarams that all the shishyas knew by heart

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jun 2009, 00:52

bah bah (you ) black sheep

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jun 2009, 01:04

We need to start a Super Sleuths of CM section soon on the Rasikas.

Cienu, that was great work!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 04 Jun 2009, 01:09

Cienu - you have in you Perry Mason!

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 04 Jun 2009, 02:33

Uday_Shankar wrote:The birth year assigned to Vinayakram in wikipedia, 1932, is way wrong.
...
BTW, I know it's vinayakram based on normal face recognizing capabilities .

Thanks, Uday_Shankar. Wikipedia has errors? I need some time to get over this...

And yes, I made the mistake of assuming everyone's face recognizing capability is as bad as mine!

sramaswamy · Post by **sramaswamy** » 04 Jun 2009, 02:54

Cienu

Thanks for the information on Sri. Vinayakaram. I corrected the year and added your information on Arangetram on the Wikipedia page.