Begada in movies

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 28 Jun 2009, 20:16

Any tamil (may be telugu/malayalam/kannada ) movie songs
in Begada raga of yesteryears and current movies.

Most raga lists have many other ragas and begada is always missing.
Members here , can they guess any movie songs in this raga.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 29 Jun 2009, 02:55

I can remember one from the film Haridas sung by MKT. The song is nijamA idu nijamA.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2009, 03:41

Even Ilayaraja does not appear to have composed in Begada!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Jun 2009, 08:55

Yes, it is rare but Music Director Dakshnamoorthy has pulled it off rather nicely, in a lighter form but without losing too much of the Begada identity.

Vinay posted this in another thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlGXeJ7frwA Movie - Sthree, singer - Yesudas, music director - Dakshinamoorthy

The starting word 'Innale' is very nicely immersed in Begada. I have a specific liking for gamakas on consonants and this Begada 'asaivu' on 'nn' works for me very well!!
Some parts of the song sound rather generic but with occasional brilliant flashes of classical begada.

Original thread: http://rasikas.org/forums/post119188.html#p119188

braindrain · Post by **braindrain** » 29 Jun 2009, 09:39

Here are some...

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/4725/Begada.html

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2009, 09:42

Yes there is Begada there! We can add this to the ilk of the vagadhiswari of TKR that Arun posted

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jun 2009, 09:50

VK,
I don't have the skill at all to find the hidden rAgams in film music, I think!
It was sArangA for me with a flash of HamIr kalyANi until he hit the mEl kAlam (from nILa ....) ni Sa GA Ma Ri Sa where it was all bEgaDa and I lost it again.
And the imagery in the lyrics was all very nice.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Jun 2009, 10:03

Wait a second you two, I am the one who usually have tremendous problems finding ragas in film music

Arasi, I grant you there is hamir kalyani in the last stanza especially at that 'manO..' at 2:13 I also feel that 2:00 to 2:50 does not sound like Begada. It may be another raga there. (Hamir Kalyani?)

And I am with you on that 'kEttu tharicchu ninnu...nIla mA marangaLil chari ninniLam thennal', it is all begada. the word 'chari' get the Begada asaivu again.
It is all quite a classical treatment. (1:25 to 1:40 )

The staring word is all begada. Come on, someone back me up. The whole pallavi is too.
( so, cml, the TKR analogy does not quite apply, it may be the reverse, there are quite a few generic and non-begada stretches in the middle especially 2:00 to 2:50 .)

The beginning may be the case of the "single note raga reveal" that we are discussing in another thread. 'nn' of innale IS begada.
The start sounds very similar to 'sankari' of sankari neeve, especially the 'n' of sankari. Also similar to kaDaikkaN vaithennai, again that 'N' of kaDaikkaN.

One last thing, the tabla player seems to be playing kanda nadai, 'tha ka tha ki ta' type strokes. Is that correct?

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 30 Jun 2009, 05:40

VK: Here are the lyrics if it helps :

Innale nee oru sundhara ragamayen
Ponnoda kuzhalil vannolichirunnu
Mamaka karalunguli chumbana lahariyil
Prema sangeethmayi nee purathu vannu

Manathe mattuppavil tharaka narimara
Gana nirjari kettu tharichu ninnu (2)
Neela mamarangalil chari ninnilam thennal
Thalamadikkan polum marannu poyi

Innale oru nava vasara swapnamayi nee
En manomukurathil virunnu vannu
Chaithra sugandhathinte thala vrindathin keezhil
Madhyana manohari mayangidumbol
Munthiri kulakalal noopuram aninjethum
Sundara vasanthasree enna pole
Mugdhanuragathinte pana bhajanam neetti
Nritha vilasini nee arikil vannu

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2009, 07:01

Thanks VKR. That helps. I have edited my post above putting in a few missing words. Thanks.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 30 Jun 2009, 09:58

Begada is a little too classical!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 30 Jun 2009, 10:23

Add one more member to the club of people who can't identify ragas in film music...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2009, 11:48

I am usually like that unless the song sounds very classically oriented, so I am at awe at the massive raga-movie song mappings at the tfm web site.....
but the beginning word 'innale' sounds very much soaked in Begada to me. I am puzzled that many of you do not sense it.

Radhakrishnan · Post by **Radhakrishnan** » 30 Jun 2009, 17:51

there is another malayAlam song in the film ningaleNe coMunistAKi, music composed by late G.Devarajan,sung by KJY

ambalaParambile ArAmathile chembarathiPUvE...beautiful lyrics by late vayalAr rAma varma,this song is soaked with bEgada

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bObXfUHeivI

rvmony · Post by **rvmony** » 30 Jun 2009, 18:09

two malayalam film songs in Begada..

1. Ambala parambile aaramathile chembarathipoove.. Yesudas.. Devarajan.
2. Nabhassil Mukillinte pon mani veenayil.. Dr. Balamuralikrishna.. Poojakku edukatha pookal

Veeramoney

rvmony · Post by **rvmony** » 30 Jun 2009, 18:15

One more in a ragamalika by Devarajan Master..

Devi mayam.... songs

2nd charanam..

Attunokki innu njan ninte nadakkethi, attukal vazhum jagadambe

from the film Attukalamma.

Radhakrishnan · Post by **Radhakrishnan** » 30 Jun 2009, 18:16

rvmony sir,nabhassil mukilinte is kannada,not begada

rvmony · Post by **rvmony** » 30 Jun 2009, 18:20

Radhakrishna ji

Thanks for the correction...

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 30 Jun 2009, 21:13

Re: Innale nee oru...
This is a lovely begada song. In the 2nd charanam, it does move into kalyani territory before landing back onto begada.

A 'strained' version of the song can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goiBh-F8UXw

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2009, 21:45

Radhakrishnan wrote:there is another malayAlam song in the film ningaleNe coMunistAKi, music composed by late G.Devarajan,sung by KJY
ambalaParambile ArAmathile chembarathiPUvE...beautiful lyrics by late vayalAr rAma varma,this song is soaked with bEgada
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bObXfUHeivI

Nicely soaked in Begada.

r-t, the youtube link I posted above for innale is the same version as you did but not strained or distorted.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2009, 21:53

braindrain wrote:Here are some...

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/4725/Begada.html

Here is the link for 'mayangi poi' from Nottam as provided in the above link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lg1GwccX0U

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 30 Jun 2009, 22:03

Yes, ambala paRambile is a classic begada song in Malayalam, more representative of begada than innale nee.

There's another song 'swAti tirunALin kAmini' sung by Jayachandran. The pallavi sounds like Begada, not sure though.

VK - sorry, didn't notice your earlier link to innale!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Jun 2009, 22:20

Seems as though malayALam film composers are drawn to the rAgam more than their counterparts.
I do not hear the rAgams in film music because the overture of the 'air' that spurs the movement of any film song obscures the rAgam for me. The rAgam seems to become 'oppukkuc cappANi' (nAm kE vAstE) , at least in my perception, as I continue listening to it. I am distracted by the 'cinema-nurtured tune', which dominates a song as I try to guess the rAgam. Again, it could be my not possessing the expertise...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2009, 22:57

We have links for 3 songs so far from the list braindrain posted: www.geocities.com/Vienna/4725/Begada.html

I could not find the links for the rest. If one of you find the links to the remaining ones, please post.

Arasi: Yes, I am pleasantly surprised at the use of Begada in malayalam movies when it is so absent in Tamil movie songs.

A CM like Begada song in movies woud be one thing, but what is interesting about these kinds of Begada movie songs is this.
Unlike the numerous scale based raga mapping of film songs, that kind of mapping just
does not work for Begada. So anything that reminds one of Begada has to be related to the classical treatment. So
the challenge for movie music directors is to infuse begada without making it sound like a CM song.

There is a whole genre of Malayalam movie songs that have a classical bent but do not quite sound like krithis. I guess
these songs belong in that film music genre.

Radhakrishnan · Post by **Radhakrishnan** » 01 Jul 2009, 07:00

ragam-talam wrote:
There's another song 'swAti tirunALin kAmini' sung by Jayachandran. The pallavi sounds like Begada, not sure though.

SwAthi thirunAlin is not begada.
It goes like
SwAthi thirunAlin kAmini
R G "¦P GR S D S

Saptha swara sudha yAmini

S R S R G M G R GMDP

Will have to analyse the complete swara pattern to get the scale.Chranas are in in rAga mAlika,ranjani and nAtta kurinji.Another fantastic song by Dakshinamurthy swamy.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 01 Jul 2009, 10:57

Radhakrishnan - came across an audio clip of this song here:
http://www.malayalasangeetham.info/secu ... /3409.html

Seems the pallavi is in Mohanam. I am not completely convinced!
(this is a lovely song - describes Carnatic music beautifully)

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 01 Jul 2009, 11:20

Did a search on Begada at the Malayala sangeetham site and came up with the following list:
http://www.malayalasangeetham.info/Raagas/Begada.html

'tapassirunnu dEvan' and 'kalayuDe dEvi' are 100% Begada.

eppramod · Post by **eppramod** » 01 Jul 2009, 11:35

vasanthakokilam wrote:We have links for 3 songs so far from the list braindrain posted: www.geocities.com/Vienna/4725/Begada.html

I could not find the links for the rest. If one of you find the links to the remaining ones, please post..

VK,
As somebody mentioned Dakshinamoorthy swamy is number one in using almost pure CM ragas in film music.
He has composed so many film songs in classical Kharaharapriya !

Here are the links for the Begada songs missing....

Dakshinamoorthy Swamy Classic

Kalayute devi karunaamayi Udayam

http://www.4shared.com/file/54496490/88 ... Devi_.html

Manathu ninnoru nakshathram Anweshanam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowvDxNV6yI (I think MK Arjunan's song,may not be complete, we can hear some Begada hints)

Another MK Arjunan classic
Poo nilaave vaa Padmaraagam
http://www.devaragam.net/vbscript/Wimpy ... ave_Va.Mp3
(http://www.devaragam.com/vbscript/Music ... ovieId=594)

Devarajan Classic
Swarga sankalpathin theroli kettente Vellam (It is swarga sankalpathin)
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/swarg ... /226288348

Thaaraambaram pookkum Kinnari puzhayoram (Music : MG Radhakrishnan)
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/t4I ... As1NMvHdW/

Pramod

eppramod · Post by **eppramod** » 01 Jul 2009, 11:46

ragam-talam wrote:Did a search on Begada at the Malayala sangeetham site and came up with the following list:
http://www.malayalasangeetham.info/Raagas/Begada.html

'tapassirunnu dEvan' and 'kalayuDe dEvi' are 100% Begada.

oops R-T,You have all the items (may be more also) requested in one site itself....

I can easily withdraw my post

Pramod

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jul 2009, 11:58

pramod, r-t: Thanks very much. Pramod thanks for those links. Very convenient to listen to them all from one launch point. All very nice and highly tastefully done. I can hear the correlation and resemblance between 'Swarga sankalpathin theroli kettente' and 'kaDaikkaN vaithennai'. They are just cast in different rhythmic forms. The film song is set in Thisra Nadai ( I think so, it definitely feels that way ).
Of course, the film song quickly deviates to other areas but the basic melodic theme is the same.

BTW, is Innale in kanda nadai?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 01 Jul 2009, 20:01

Nice. Popular music in malayalam seemed to have retained a lot of classism - I also like the fact that people there do not get hung up on language etc. - truly open and tolerant.

vk - I do not think that innale song's rhythm pattern is in khanda nadai - it is catusra only. It goes like

S . S . | S S S .
S . S . | S S S .

S => tabla stroke
. => pause

So while we hear a repeating pattern of 5 strokes - they are spread over 8 "pulses".

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jul 2009, 20:06

Thanks Arun. What you showed is how I first sensed it but then had second thoughts. Thanks for clarifying it by laying it out nicely.

'Swarga sankalpathin theroli kettente' is thisram, right?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 01 Jul 2009, 20:10

The svAthi thirunAlin song's pallavi seems like a mix to my ears. It certainly starts with a strong resemblance to mohanam (particularly aided by the flute), but there are parts of it which seem like common begada phrases (e.g. vAhini and dIkshitarum,, even kAmini )

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 01 Jul 2009, 20:11

yes - that seems like tiSram

Arun

Radhakrishnan · Post by **Radhakrishnan** » 01 Jul 2009, 21:00

vasanthakokilam wrote:
There is a whole genre of Malayalam movie songs that have a classical bent but do not quite sound like krithis. I guess
these songs belong in that film music genre.

Those days music composers blend the ragas according to the situation of the film,suppose it is a classical base dance,the song will be more like kutcheri keerthana,with more gamakas.
Sorry to deviate from begada,just to make the point clear,one song music by Dakshinamurthy swamy,see how he tamed sankarabharanam,and it is never like a carnatic keerthana.Voice control of KJY is remarkable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXcUpkZCbmo

Another song,music by Devarajan master.It is a delicate romantic scene,technically it may be hari kamboji,but PDS phrase there,but listen to the song!again the voice control of KJY is commendable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbEIvk_7-Bg

ppraghu · Post by **ppraghu** » 02 Jul 2009, 04:32

1) "Maanathu Ninnoru Nakshathram Veenu" sung by K J Yesudas and S. Janaki. Music - M K Arjunan. Link here...
http://www.4shared.com/file/110759877/7 ... u.html?s=1

Is this a true Begada? The Pallavi feels like Begada, but then the remaining stanzas drift away from this ragam.

2) The song "Sarga samkalpathin thEroli kEttente" has a very strong Begada feeling, but again frequently, the song seems to drift away from Begada. Link here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDBKzI3LclU

Raghu

Radhakrishnan · Post by **Radhakrishnan** » 02 Jul 2009, 08:43

another short begada clip from dakshinamurthy again, from 0.52 to 1.27.It is a raga maalika,one raga for each temple.what a song! he aptly used hindusthani raga for a north indian temple(madhuvanti?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hsm6RbTJLw

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 04 Jul 2009, 13:39

This webpage provides a somewhat exhaustive list of various ragas in which Malayalam film songs have been composed:
http://www.malayalasangeetham.info/Raagas/

It's quite an impressive list!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Jul 2009, 21:33

Have a look @
http://rasikas.org/forums/post127189.html#p127189