visakahari at veenus colony

balu · Post by **balu** » 27 Jun 2009, 10:02

i went with lots of expectation to the sangeetha upanyasam.there was a huge crowd to listen to her discourse.the arrangements made by the vedic foundation was excellent.there were two big screens oneither side of the hall.and there were also plasma tv.on the stage were a violinist,mrindangist and a ghatam vidvan.being the firstime iam listeing i was slightly confused,whether it is concert or upanyasam.but once the discourse statrts my doubt was cleared.between the songs she was trying to tell the story.it was like old tamil movies,in which there used to be asong for every two words spoken.there was also neraval in saraanga song and hold your breathe thaniavarthanam.as usual once the thani statrts people started leaving .in the end i was confused .i have neither listened to a concert nor a dscourse.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jun 2009, 10:23

A very interesting experience.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jun 2009, 01:01

balu wrote:i went with lots of expectation to the sangeetha upanyasam..... .in the end i was confused .i have neither listened to a concert nor a discourse.

Neither fish, nor fowl nor good red herring!

But if you can't make it as a musician nor as a harikatha exponent, this would be a good way to make a living.

And of course the abhang-loving crowd eats up this stuff as being different (and, in their opinion, better).

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Jun 2009, 04:00

'Different' does not mean that it is better, in all instances.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 28 Jun 2009, 14:44

harimau wrote:
balu wrote:i went with lots of expectation to the sangeetha upanyasam..... .in the end i was confused .i have neither listened to a concert nor a discourse.
Neither fish, nor fowl nor good red herring!

But if you can't make it as a musician nor as a harikatha exponent, this would be a good way to make a living.

And of course the abhang-loving crowd eats up this stuff as being different (and, in their opinion, better).

Well, harimau. I wonder if any human on the earth can satisfy your tastes. I don't think you will be satisfied even if a superhuman comprising of all the past, present and future musicians performs; you will probably say, "Neither Dulse, Kelp nor Irish Moss!"

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 28 Jun 2009, 19:31

balu and harimau: You guys are good at whatever you say

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Jun 2009, 20:04

srinivasrgvn wrote:
Well, harimau. I wonder if any human on the earth can satisfy your tastes. I don't think you will be satisfied even if a superhuman comprising of all the past, present and future musicians performs; you will probably say, "Neither Dulse, Kelp nor Irish Moss!"

MDR. He is da man.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jun 2009, 01:21

...then
vishaka hari is the 'bhangi' maDisaar maami

(bhangi = lovely (malayalam))

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Jun 2009, 06:37

harimau seems to take a contrarian view of things in life, far from the maddening crowd being the life principle. Works very well in investing, btw

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Jun 2009, 21:31

The lion is perhaps a financier in his profession. Who knows!

visaalam · Post by **visaalam** » 01 Jul 2009, 17:19

balu wrote:i have neither listened to a concert nor a dscourse.

Unfortunately, that is the way her programmes turn out to be.

After listening to greats such as TSB, Embar, I get restless listening to such "Harikathas"

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 01 Jul 2009, 20:29

Balu is correct. She wants to mix up everything and it is very difficult to satisfy with the crowd. She is master of manythings. That is the Problem !!.

There is always a crowd for listening to whether Charulatha Mani or Vishaka Hari or Vijay Siva-TMK duo or a full fledged 3 hours concert. it is our choice to decide and desist going to others.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jul 2009, 00:06

... she uses Thyagaraja's name and songs as a bait!
the CM folks are hooked

...she uses folksy 'ammaami' talk!
the older women are hooked

... she uses 'aNNa's name' from time to time!
the bhakti folks (not the DMK/DK clan) are hooked

.....

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 02 Jul 2009, 16:37

harimau wrote:
balu wrote:i went with lots of expectation to the sangeetha upanyasam..... .in the end i was confused .i have neither listened to a concert nor a discourse.
Neither fish, nor fowl nor good red herring!

But if you can't make it as a musician nor as a harikatha exponent, this would be a good way to make a living.

And of course the abhang-loving crowd eats up this stuff as being different (and, in their opinion, better).

Well, harimau. A fact to add - Smt.Vishaka Hari is not doing this to make a living. She is a well-educated person and can earn millions at the comfort of her home if she wants to because she is a Chartered Accountant(a gold medalist too). She is also an excellent dancer. So, she isn't giving upanyasams to feed her family. Her family is a dignified and noble family. She is giving Upanyasams at the insistence of her father-in-law, the great Sri Anna. She is equally talented as a vocalist too. She has/is giving vocal concerts too. She may not be a harikatha expert, but her Upanyasams are filled with bhakthi and melodious music. So, a person like you, who is stranded somewhere in the West and lacks knowledge about matters concerning artistes have no right to criticize Smt.Vishaka.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jul 2009, 20:29

...she sings divine Abhangs
the abhang lovers flock to her

(incidentally that keeps off the troublesome abhang-haters

...

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 02 Jul 2009, 20:35

grsastrigal wrote:Balu is correct. She wants to mix up everything and it is very difficult to satisfy with the crowd. She is master of manythings. That is the Problem !!.

There is always a crowd for listening to whether Charulatha Mani or Vishaka Hari or Vijay Siva-TMK duo or a full fledged 3 hours concert. it is our choice to decide and desist going to others.

I very much agree to your point, sastrigal.
It is very much our choice to decide or desist going to concerts.
Nothing is going to happen if people prattle or blather here in the forum! The artistes will not stop singing nor will their fame be sabotaged.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 02 Jul 2009, 23:36

srinivasrgvn wrote:
Well, harimau. A fact to add - Smt.Vishaka Hari is not doing this to make a living. She is a well-educated person and can earn millions at the comfort of her home if she wants to because she is a Chartered Accountant(a gold medalist too). She is also an excellent dancer. So, she isn't giving upanyasams to feed her family. Her family is a dignified and noble family. She is giving Upanyasams at the insistence of her father-in-law, the great Sri Anna. She is equally talented as a vocalist too. She has/is giving vocal concerts too. She may not be a harikatha expert, but her Upanyasams are filled with bhakthi and melodious music. So, a person like you, who is stranded somewhere in the West and lacks knowledge about matters concerning artistes have no right to criticize Smt.Vishaka.

It is good to know she is a dancer. I saw a lecture-demonstration at some Sabha last year. The gentleman said that dancing is part of the harikatha tradition too (a few steps and gestures, not a full-blown margam). Now the artist whom you like so much can get up in the middle of the harikatha and do a foxtrot!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Jul 2009, 23:48

... that'll be more interesting than the Mexican Fan dancer doing an adavu ..
... do you think there is a venue big enough to contain the crowds

gavats · Post by **gavats** » 03 Jul 2009, 08:25

grsastrigal wrote:Balu is correct. She wants to mix up everything and it is very difficult to satisfy with the crowd. She is master of manythings. That is the Problem !!.

There is always a crowd for listening to whether Charulatha Mani or Vishaka Hari or Vijay Siva-TMK duo or a full fledged 3 hours concert. it is our choice to decide and desist going to others.

Vijay Siva, TMK,Visaka are indeed crowd pullers, agreed, but Why is there a crowd for Charulatha Mani, apologies, I havenÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚Â¢t heard her concerts yet, but the song that I did hear wasnÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚Â¢t impressive at all, I never knew that she is a crwod puller, since when?..unless I am missing something, or may be her manolayams are truly exceptional to attract crowd?i didnt know that either"Â¦

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 03 Jul 2009, 16:18

Well gavats,
I think sastrigal is referring to the concert of Charulatha Mani in the Mylapore Fine Arts Society(?) last year. She gave a special concert wherein she gave short introductions about the songs, raga briefings and comparisons. Although I didn't go to the concert, the reviews in the Hindu suggested that the concert was very good. The concert was partly a lec-dem.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 03 Jul 2009, 19:25

gavats and srinivas- You haven't heard or seen the video of Charulatha Mani giving Two in one concert (!!) (CM Ragaa and films songs based on those). Her concerts are always like this. (She takes 2 to 3 Ragas in a concert, explain each of these, sings Carnatic based songs and compare with the films songs and sings that too) It is very famous and she is a crowd puller whether BVB, Mylapore, or NGS Main hall. There are more reviews in this site about her peformance.

I agree with srnivas. Vishaka Hari is a genius. She has a tradition. Very few ladies have the Sanskrit knowledge, vidwat to give Upanyasam and come out in traditional dress. Let us try to appreciate this point.

There are plenty of Video CDs (uploaded in this site too). Just listen and decide your choice..

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Jul 2009, 20:42

grsastrigal wrote: I agree with srnivas. Vishaka Hari is a genius. She has a tradition. Very few ladies have the Sanskrit knowledge, vidwat to give Upanyasam and come out in traditional dress. Let us try to appreciate this point.

There are plenty of Video CDs (uploaded in this site too). Just listen and decide your choice..

I agree particularly on the dress! I wish more and more of our women adopt the traditional style which looks so auspicious instead of adapting the western styles!

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 03 Jul 2009, 21:35

cmlover wrote:
grsastrigal wrote: I agree with srnivas. Vishaka Hari is a genius. She has a tradition. Very few ladies have the Sanskrit knowledge, vidwat to give Upanyasam and come out in traditional dress. Let us try to appreciate this point.

There are plenty of Video CDs (uploaded in this site too). Just listen and decide your choice..
I agree particularly on the dress! I wish more and more of our women adopt the traditional style which looks so auspicious instead of adapting the western styles!

grsastrigal meant the 9-yard sari aka "madisar" (Thamizh pudavai) when he said "traditional style".

The 6-yard sari is known as the Telugu sari (Thelungu pudavai) and became the norm probably after the 1940s and is being supplanted by the salwar-kameez or churidhar set which in turn is being replaced by "Western style" among the college crowd.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 03 Jul 2009, 21:44

This is the consequence of peer pressure and need to conform to modern trend.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jul 2009, 22:10

MaDisAr has been seen on the catwalk too in fashion shows.. In today's world where 'exotic' becomes a trend within hours, the maDisAr still holds some mystique. Brides go for it in the name of tradition and it satisfies their whim for being in costume too, what with having to don gharAra--chOli, a must for the show which is the reception!
In Visaka Hari's case, it goes with the part of story telling, and also adds novelty (!) to the show.
The women of olden days who worked hard found them to be practical, as practical as the salwAr kurtA of today.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Jul 2009, 22:43

It is also a style which is getting forgotten. My wife occasionally is requested to dressup the brides in that style since most women do not know how-to! I guess the 'thelungu puDavai' became a fashion due to wartime economy since 6yds is cheaper. I am told that the 9yds are indeed collector's items and very few are manufactured these days. We tend to identify 'maDisaar maamis' as typical brahmin women. Is it strictly correct? Do the chettiars (kOmuTTi) also have a similar 9yds style but worn differently? among men the 'pancha kaccam' is also getting lost. Many these days do not wear (or do not know to wear) and seek the help of the priest who has to know! I love the looks of TNS in the jari-clad panca kaccam doing the harikatha! By the by does any one know the origin of the word 'madisaar'?

i_srinivasan · Post by **i_srinivasan** » 04 Jul 2009, 01:43

cmlover, Googling gave me the most relevant result - http://www.pramanik.in/saree.html. Interestingly one of the results said there is a 'Dravidian' way to drape sarees in TN!Any idea (or should I say anyone brave enough to hazard a guess)?

I guess your second last line will get quite a few diverse comments

I do concur with your look (and feel) observation on TNS.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2009, 03:05

Most of the musicians in those days wore panca kaccam and looked great in them! Can't think of any vidUshis in the trditional garb, though. For some reason, women even coming from traditional families opted to wear a six yards sari on stage.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2009, 05:38

Interesting reference.It is correct that women covering the upper torso happened very late. In Kerala Swathi Thirunal is credited with permitting lower caste women to cover their tops. The higher caste ladies always used to coverup with their saris (in Kerla they wore the 'muNDu'). The wearing of the 'bodice' came out of the Victorian Prudery! The imitation of the West appears to continue

I remember the times when vidvans wore nothing on the top part of the body. That natural state permitted them to cool off in our tropical weather as also permitted unrestricted sancaaram in the octaves. Typically think of the divine form of CVB (surviving in a number of pictures) who also used to smear himself with Sandalwood paste to cool off even further.

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 04 Jul 2009, 08:09

arasi wrote:Most of the musicians in those days wore panca kaccam and looked great in them! Can't think of any vidUshis in the trditional garb, though. For some reason, women even coming from traditional families opted to wear a six yards sari on stage.

NSG appears in panca kaccam in all concerts..

-hari

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 04 Jul 2009, 08:23

If my memory serves well, I think the custom of panca kaccam wearing all the time lasted until the late 50s and thereafter only for vaideeka kAryam panca kaccam is being worn. What is so special about paca kaccam that should be worn for CM or bhajan?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2009, 08:53

Every grahasta brahmin should wear panca kaccam. That is the reason for the 'double vEShTi'. The 'kaili' style wearing of dhoti is the muslim practice!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2009, 09:33

CML,
True. But as you know only too well, overdoing it is de rigueur now. However, it is the performance that counts. Respledence on the concert stage is distracting. It belongs on the dance stage. Even there, Bala and a few others did not go for it. Their art did shine though.

Hari,
Yes. NSG does wear the pAnca caccam. Often even off stage, I guess.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 04 Jul 2009, 15:44

I've seen Ghatam Karthik in panchakachcham in a few concerts.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 04 Jul 2009, 18:53

So is it possible jeans and T shirts will be the style of future generations even in CM and bhajans?

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 04 Jul 2009, 20:10

Never, VKR sir. Our tradition will never get lost. I mean, India is one of those very very rare countries where people still where the attire that was worn thousands of years ago. For that matter, Ladies will never stop wearing the Sari. It is one of the most favorite attires still and will continue. Men, I think, will stick on to the plain dhoti atleast because it is traditional and comfortable.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2009, 21:27

On the other hand, I don't think VKR would say no to a youngster who wears jeans but is very keen on joining the bhajan group.

These days, I see in weddings and temples, children dressed in non-traditional clothes--jeans, dresses (gowns?).

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jul 2009, 21:29

Coming back to Visaka Hari's programs, it would be interesting to see how many women in the audience come in maDisAr!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jul 2009, 21:46

Every Brahmin should know to wear the pancakaccham. Not only that it is traditional, it makes you look good! Here is a ref that gives good instructions which is easy to follow
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=217

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 05 Jul 2009, 00:11

arasi: I am pant and pooNal wearing sAmbar kuTiyan pattar and will let any one join me irrespective of their belief and clothing style.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jul 2009, 02:21

sAmbar kuDiyan pattar? manasile AyiTTilla.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 05 Jul 2009, 02:57

In Kerala brahmins are called "sambAr Kudiyan Pattar" - one who likes sambAr - similar to brahmins being thayir vadai in tamil nadu

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Jul 2009, 08:45

VK RAMAN wrote:In Kerala brahmins are called "sambAr Kudiyan Pattar" - one who likes sambAr - similar to brahmins being thayir vadai in tamil nadu

And on TV, you can see ads for "Brahmin brand" sambhar powder!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jul 2009, 09:05

It used to ammAmi appaLam

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 05 Jul 2009, 14:00

My thatha used to tell me that Panchakatcham is worn only when you have had a head bath, put on vibuthi etc, wear panchakatcham and perform the morning sandyavandanam and proceed with other pooja and other anusthanam from then onwards. The minute people see the person wearing panchakatcham, house holders included, they will give them the wide berth to maintain the madi, aacharam etc. He used to say every poonal poota brahmanan must wear panchakatcham for performing his religious activities. It is some thing like men walking along the street seeing a lady with chutti on her toes, giving the respect due to a married woman...some thing like that....those were the days in the villages and also in Madras where I grew up in Mylapore....well that is in 60s-70s...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jul 2009, 19:21

Your thatha is absolutely right. The pancakaccam signifies purity both inside as well as outside. In olden times folks used to respect such persons. The vibhuti or thirumaN (either of which is a must) gave a saintly appearance to the person. As time passed such folks became the targets of attack by bad elements in society and many wanted to hide their identity and blend with the rest of the society!
Same is the case with brahmin ladies as well who not only hide their identity but even change their language and accents so that they be not be derided upon. I have to congratulate Vishaka Hari who is also highly educated for boldly displaying her identity in public at all times!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Jul 2009, 19:48

Sam Swaminathan wrote:It is some thing like men walking along the street seeing a lady with chutti on her toes, giving the respect due to a married woman...some thing like that.......

You mean a meTTi, right? cuTTi is something worn on the forehead, IIRC.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 05 Jul 2009, 20:36

Red vermillion powder on the forehead - sindhUr also signifies a married woman!

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 06 Jul 2009, 01:39

Yes Shankar, I meant to write Metti...thanks for the correction.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 06 Jul 2009, 01:41

Yes, CML....the move towards such degradation started way back in 1955 and reached its climax in 1967 when there was a switch in the government in Tamilnadu. It persists even to-day thanks to the ruling "pagutharivalargal".