Ravikiran and Anil Srinivasan at Krishna Gana Sabha

sundance · Post by **sundance** » 01 Jul 2009, 22:40

What can one expect when a concert begins with an announcement that 'Chitraveena' Ravikiran is the "Mozareth" of Madras? The first piece, composed by Ravikiran himself, was all cacophony. What was the need to have a rhythm pad and a kanjeera (BS Purushottam)? A violin (Akkarai Subbulakshmi) and a chitraveena? Aren't the complementary sounds produced by these instruments lost when played together?

The saving grace of the concert was the scintillating "thaanam" in Simhendramadhyamam, which was performed by Ravikiran and Anil Srinivasan. Anil was especially good in demonstrating how even such a hard-core "classical" raga could come alive on the piano. As he said later, before playing Debussy's "Sacred Cathedral," instruments don't know the difference between "east" and "west." It is all in our minds.

Had it been left to Ravikiran and Anil Srinivasan, it would have been a cracker of a jugalbandi. Still, despite the rawness of the other players (in both age and experience), the senior musicians, along with BS Purushottam and Akkarai Subbulakshmi, made it a worthwhile evening.

As an aside, Anil Srinivasan's mini-lecture preceding his Western Classical piece made one wish for more such lec-dems. Anil's demonstrations of impressionism in Western Classical music were as rewarding as his forays into Simhendramadhyamam.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 01 Jul 2009, 23:57

sundance wrote:hard-core "classical" raga could come alive on the piano

That's nonsense. In fact simhendramadhyam is far from "hard-core" classical and in fact lends itself well to being played on non-gamaka instruments. There was a famous film song many years ago "aananda raagam" or some such with many staccato instrumental passages in simhendra madhyamam. In fact SM is a raga commonly played on the jalatarangam. Even SM's transposed cousin mayamalagowlai can be played nicely on piano/jalatarangam.

I did enjoy anil srinivasan's debussy piece too...no surprise there...it is part of standard classical repertoire. Sort of like enjoying a Patnam Subramania Iyer piece by Ravikiran.

I can't take you review seriously unless you make a more substantive critique. It is very easy sitting in chennai to dismiss such efforts. From the comfort zone of the familiar, be it "hard-core" Carnatic or hard-core WCM, all of this can be dismissed as cacophony. So can Schoenberg, Straviksky, Alban Berg...

I was fascinated by the andhakarini piece ("delusion"). I also thought the kadanakuthookalam piece had a latin flavor to it. The idea of playing the rAga staccato on the flute appealed to me.

The rhythm pad player was extremely talented...I cannot understand your gripe.

I did ask Ravikiran about Akkarai Subbulakshmi...she's there usually to complement rather than add to the chitravina. On this occassion she had just landed in town the previous day and hence had a more limited role than normally.

I refrain from writing further about this because I can be regarded as a sympathetic and biased commentator of Chitravina Ravikiran's music

.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 02 Jul 2009, 10:49

sundance wrote:What was the need to have a rhythm pad and a kanjeera (BS Purushottam)? A violin (Akkarai Subbulakshmi) and a chitraveena? Aren't the complementary sounds produced by these instruments lost when played together?

I think the rhythm pad and kanjeera would get along fabulously well due the limitations of both instruments.

As far as violin and chitraveena are concerned, in this case, Akkarai being the disciple of Ravikiran, the effect of complementary sounds would be enhanced and not lost as you fear.

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 02 Jul 2009, 15:12

I am a lover of RK's music and when the theme 'illusion to salavation' was taken I was immensely pleased since I am preparing myself for a Gurupurnima retreat for 10 days at my Guruji's ashram at kerala starting 6/07/09.

Already the list of items played given by sundance and Uday.

All the members performed really well living upto their age and experience but somehow I couldn't resist the feeling that the theme would have been explored in a better way living upto its loftiness.

No doubt technically it was a very good show.But at the end when I came out the mind was filled with queries and bit of disappointment.

While my queries may take me to salvation,the disappointment could be the handwork of delusion
arising out of undue expectation.

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 02 Jul 2009, 15:14

ganeshkant wrote:
While my queries may take me to salvation,the disappointment could be the handwork of delusion
arising out of undue expectation.

coolkapali · Post by **coolkapali** » 02 Jul 2009, 16:06

Missed the concert. Ravikiran is definitely a genious.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Jul 2009, 20:42

And is ingenious!

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 02 Jul 2009, 20:46

Well, I did go to the Lalgudi Krishnan-Anil Srinivasan duo performance for the release of the 'padha varnam' DVDs by Swati Sanskriti at the Academy. I didn't like the violin and piano together. It was kind of odd.
Well, sorry to say, I am neither a fan of Ravikiran's chitraveena. I seem to like Veena better than Chitraveena! =)

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 03 Jul 2009, 13:26

I like the pentatonic raga combo deal (mohanam + s.danyasi + s.saveri + madhyamavati + mohanam) very much. Unfortunately Ravikiran did not explain some of the other aspects of this composition as he promised before it started. I am sure there were many other ragas used as bridges between the main ones ( i am sure i heard vasanthi, surya etc.). Can someone who attended elaborate on this?

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 03 Jul 2009, 14:01

Was shruti bhEdam done to arrive at these various ragas?

sundance · Post by **sundance** » 04 Jul 2009, 00:14

@ Uday_Shankar: I did not dismiss the effort. I did feel that there were too many people on stage. Yes, the rhythm pad player was talented, but his presence in the ensemble was not justified IMO, which is a point we can argue about till the cows come home

The concert was advertized as a jugalbandi between Ravikiran and Anil Srinivasan, and that should have been the case. At least, that's why I turned up.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 04 Jul 2009, 11:17

Any classical recordings of Anil Srinivasan piano (or combined with someone else) available commercially?

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Jul 2009, 05:36

It seems that in general Carnatic music concerts, along with the audience, can be divided into two distinct subsets.

The first type of concert is where classical music is presented in reasonably pristine form with a view to engaging the audience. The audience treats this type of concert as almost a one-on-one experience where individually they connect with the artist and turn over the music phrase by phrase in their minds savouring it. Admittedly these types of concerts are becoming rare and the artists who are able to engage knowledgeable rasikas are few and far between. Among the current crop, one can say that N. Ramani on the flute, Trivandrum R. Venkataraman on the veena, Ravikiran on the chitraveena, and to a lesser extent Jayanthi Kumaresh, and fall into this category. Their very best is the most delectable music a connoisseur could want.

Then there is "performance art" where the artist comes in with the intention of providing a public spectacle and the audience willingly participates and is there to be seen and to see others of their ilk. Performance art draws huge crowds. Performance artists, in my opinion, include Aruna Sayeeram, Sudha Raghunathan, Ranjani-Gayathri (despite their considerable gifts as musicians), and persons who perform on non-traditional instruments from the Carnatic perspective.

Some performance art programs are presented as duets between traditional and non-traditional instrumentalists. I actually attended one such program earlier this year at the Music Academy hosted by SwathiSoft and billed as the Padams of Lalgudi Jayaraman. The performing artists were Lalgudi GJR Kishnan and Lalgudi Vijayalakshmi on the violin and Anil Srinivasan on the keyboard. (If I see a Bosendorfer or a Steinway on the stage I would call it a piano. If I see an electronic instrument on a metal stand at either end and connected to a power outlet, I call it a keyboard.)

As opposed to a traditional concert, Krishnan and Vijayalakshmi started on one rage and continually morphed it playing 5 or 6 different ragas. Anil Srinivasan played along on the keyboard and followed it with his own interpretation of some ragas.

The quality of the audience could be seen in that at the end of this first alapana-like musical interlude, some person in the front row who was seen applauding vigorously all the way through got up and asked that the artists announce the ragas and Anil Srinivasan obliged him.

What it means is that one could ba a jnanasoonyam (and I certainly am not referring to a member with that handle) and still would want to come to such a program. I am quite sure that such a person would not be seen within a mile of a flute concert by N. Ramani.

My comments on non-traditional performances are based on my personal preferences and my belief that they tend to debase the already declining standards of Carnatic music. I do not like Carnatic music on keyboard, guitar, etc., though I have listened to at least a few of each. Nor do I approve of these strange combination concerts which certainly are not needed to boost the carrers of either Ravikiran or the Lalgudi siblings.

I express my opinions in strident tones because, in my opinion, going along with these trends is a crime against our culture.

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 05 Jul 2009, 07:55

harimau,

i am with u on almost all of your sentiments....initially i was perhaps only against your rather high bar that u set with only a steinway or a Bosendorfer qualify to be a piano....while i was with you on the fact that a "keyboard" leaves much to be desired...i wondered how could an upcoming artist afford a piano?

that said steinway has several affordable pianos available now, and there is a robust pre-owned assortment made available by steinway....with impeccable hand-crafted credentials that are guaranteed by the maker themselves!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jul 2009, 08:47

Mahesh,
I have a feeling that Anil Srinivasan has a Steinway or some other make of piano at home. We know how very portable the piano is. We do not have concert halls or church or school halls with a piano where CM concerts take place. I have heard Anil in two live performances and whatever he played on sounded like a piano to me and it was excellent playing. I have heard his recorded music too and think he is a fine artiste. While certain fusion concerts I was subjected to drive me crazy, I feel tranquil listening to Anil's music--no hodge podge of disturbing sounds there. I would like to hear him play with chitra vina
Ravikaran (another favorite of mine) in the near future. I liked the violin combination too when Viji Naatarajan played with him.

Harimau,
I really appreciate the restraint in your post this time. You are entitled to your views, of course. Old is gold, ancient is precious. Antiques have to be preserved without their being eaten up by termites. However, new healthy influences in music need not be negated...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Jul 2009, 19:34

I have also heard Anil play and have found it to be very enjoyable with no 'snobbery' involved. If that makes me a 'lesser' rasika, then so be it. While restraint in postings should be expected, (with absolutely no need for it to be 'appreciated'), personal attacks HAVE to be condemned, especially tasteless ones, for they show even a 'superior' rasika to be a very 'inferior' human being, indeed.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Jul 2009, 20:28

Ravi, do you know who you are, you are a jnanasoonyam for having admitted that. Don't prop yourself up as a 'lesser rasika'.

I strongly suggest that Anil should invite Sri. Ramani, Sri. Venkatraman, Sri. Ravikiran and Ms. Jayanthi Kumaresh to one of his concerts. Hmm..but then Ravikiran was on the stage with Anil in this concert! I do not know what Ravikiran will be called now!!

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 05 Jul 2009, 20:38

I dint really see anything on here that can be deemed snobbish..unless I am missing something? Harimau just does not approve of a format, what's wrong with that? Its his opinion...in an age where every 2-penny singer is compared to yesteryear greats....atleast some honesty and context is worth its weight on this forum...

Some people enjoy the format, i thought the original review of this concert was quite good...snobbery or not...and lets just not go down the path where we feel the need to support everything and nod vigorously when anyone says something positive abt an artist....and diss those who dare to voice an opnion not consistent with the forum.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Jul 2009, 20:48

mahesh3: It is not about this concert or the format! harimau did not attend the concert as far as I understand. How original it is for someone to stand up for pristine music! And what remains in this thread is a well dressed up version. the unsavory parts of it had been removed based on members' request. 'strident tones', yeah right!

Torch bearers can do more damage than good if they are not careful.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jul 2009, 21:48

Ravi,
Okay. I need not have appreciated Harimau for his restraint

but after reading his earlier post, I reacted that way--like a mother, after seeing a child behaving abominably in bad mouthing another child and then calming down. I didn't know about the 'edit' until now.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Jul 2009, 23:36

vasanthakokilam wrote:mahesh3: It is not about this concert or the format! harimau did not attend the concert as far as I understand. How original it is for someone to stand up for pristine music! And what remains in this thread is a well dressed up version. the unsavory parts of it had been removed based on members' request. 'strident tones', yeah right!

Torch bearers can do more damage than good if they are not careful.

Like dogs shown a piece of raw meat, certain people reacted to my earlier posting. It is merely a conditioned response on their part. The automatic assumption was that since I did not attend this particular concert, I should have no comments on this type of combination.

However, I did attend one such concert combining Anil Srinivasan on the keyboard and the violins. Thus, I have a very good idea of what one can expect in such a concert and my comments were based on that. In fact I asked if the next concerts might be the chitraveena and the didgeridoo or the kazoo and the violin.

I would have no problem attending Anil Srinivasan in concert on a real piano playing Western classical music, ragtime or jazz. I do have a problem with these so-called "fusion" concerts which degrade both kinds of music.

Last time, when I said something about Guitar Prasanna, a bunch of guys and gals jumped on me. It would surprise you to know that I have personally hosted Prasanna at my home and have attended his concerts. My opinion on Carnatic music on the guitar is based on actual experience. Only when Kulkarniji pointed out that Guitar Prasanna's music was nothing to write home about did people calm down. Otherwise, you all think that I am here trolling. I have no need to. I am here to say the emperor has no clothes.

I do attend wide variety of concerts, both Carnatic, Hindusthani and Western. I have even gone to an opera by a modern composer such as Philip Glass who breaks Western concepts of consonance to smithereens. Of all these, I personally prefer to listen to Carnatic music but I would like to listen to all three genres individually. I do not understand why an artist of Ravikiran's stature needs to play to the gallery of uninformed listeners who cannot distinguish Todi from Bagesri nor can tell the difference between a chitraveena and bagpipes (those are merely examples; there is no need to ask for actual names and addresses of folks who attended the concert in question and who display such ignorance).

As to it being unoriginal to stand up for pristine music, exactly how many of you came out saying that fusion is confusion?

If you really want reviews of concerts I attend, I am quite ready to post one on Sudha Raghunathan at Cleveland. It would certainly raise howls from the likes of you!

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 06 Jul 2009, 00:02

To bring this rather sordid mess to an end, a word from the subject in question.

arasi, rshankar, vasanthakokilam etc. - thanks for the support and open-minded approach to music.

harimau and mahesh3 - while I do completely understand where you're coming from, I think a large proportion of your opinions are purely in the subjective realm and this whole classification of performance art and purist art was what it was - an opinion. No more, no less.

I do not think any of the artists who perform with me do so with a need to "boost their careers" or whatever else you accuse them of. I think each one is a sensitive artist nonpareil in their respective disciplines, and the sheer idea of accusing them of opportunism this way is a travesty to their devotion to whatever they create. Again, I am not opening this up for debate - I am just stating my claim. Philip Glass is also a personal friend and I think I've worked with each of these approaches not to "debase" any form of music. Clearly, you haven't bothered to read my articles on people whose music you claim is far superior than anything we all can think of - such as MDR. I think you would've understood me better. But enough said. Its ridiculous in the first place to even think of such an elaborate response.

That said, I have neither the need nor the inclination to justify anything so I will refrain from doing so. Since you do claim to have an interest in hearing me live on a real piano - I would urge you to hasten to Dakshina Chitra on the 21st of August where I am planning a purely Western Classical (solo) programme. There is one even earlier but I am not sure if it's open to the public. If I get suitable information, will pass it on.

Peace out and enjoy every form of music and kindly do not bother attending any more "fusion" concerts -I never understood why you had to come to such in the first place with such strict views, and do help me finance a Steinway at Music Academy if you can. For what its worth, apparently Lalgudi sir thoroughly enjoyed it, but he does not know as much as you do.

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 06 Jul 2009, 00:05

And one more thing - calling me a squirrel making noise, and other rasikas dogs attacking meat and so forth seems reflective of an interest in wild life far in excess of the meagre demands of this column. I would urge the moderator at this stage to lock this thread and lets call it a day.

asrini · Post by **asrini** » 06 Jul 2009, 00:11

sureshvv wrote:I like the pentatonic raga combo deal (mohanam + s.danyasi + s.saveri + madhyamavati + mohanam) very much. Unfortunately Ravikiran did not explain some of the other aspects of this composition as he promised before it started. I am sure there were many other ragas used as bridges between the main ones ( i am sure i heard vasanthi, surya etc.). Can someone who attended elaborate on this?

Sorry I did not answer this earlier.

We played Surya + Udayaravichandrika + Samapriya + Pratimadhyamavati + Vasanthi as the ragas. There was no conscious attempt at shruti bheda, but we did try to effect a change one note at a time so as to cover a variety of moods within a pentatonic frame. Samapriya is very similar to sallapam and I played one phrase in each raga (going up and coming down) to emphasize the similarity, and the pratimadhyamavati is affected by (as the name suggests) sharpening the shuddha madhyamam so Ravi ji and I alternated both madhyamams to highlight the difference. The final bridge went from Vasanthi to Natabhairavi (I played the ascending notes highlighting (or accenting, in the case of piano dynamics) SRMPDS highlighting the pentatonic ascent of Mukhari and brought it to a halt, and Ravi ji then took it to Brahmakadigina Padamu).

Hope that helps.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 06 Jul 2009, 00:19

Harimau oversteps the limits of decent discussions and seems to think the forum is his personal blog. Should he be banned for his lack of decency?

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 06 Jul 2009, 00:27

harimau wrote:Only when Kulkarniji pointed out that Guitar Prasanna's music was nothing to write home about did people calm down.

Wow! That was a nice attempt to be on the right side of one of the best men on the forum.

We listen to "Kulkarniji" because he has credibility on this forum. No hidden agendas. He's not there to destroy people. His posts are read with eagerness. His views are respected , even if we disagree. How may posts of our dear Coolji did our moderators have to edit or block (unlike you who has a sadistic pleasure in making our mods work overtime just policing you)

And no, "Kulkarniji" does not hide behind the cloak of anonymity. He is "da man" and not "da coward" !

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Jul 2009, 01:43

I do not understand why an artist of Ravikiran's stature needs to play to the gallery of uninformed listeners who cannot distinguish Todi from Bagesri nor can tell the difference between a chitraveena and bagpipes

Alright, we are getting somewhere. So there is at least one thing about CM you admit to not understand. Seriously, please make an effort to contact Ravikiran ( through his web site or through personal contacts ) and ask him that question. Let us atleast get some education out of this. Till then, you can consider holding off from posting your often repeated views on the degradation of carnatic music in every thread of this type.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 Jul 2009, 04:00

At the request of asrini this thread is now closed. Thanks everyone for your inputs and discussions. If there are questions or unresolved issues they can be handled through personal communications.