What's the raga? Again #3

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 08 Jul 2009, 21:37

Yet another interesting treat: http://sunson.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/ ... c-music-3/

I suspect this one also would be easier. Anyway, enjoy! Any comments/opinions as before are always appreciated!

Note - answers are on the post itself and "hidden" until revealed. So to let others enjoy the post, please do not post the direct answer here - please do not be "that friend who blurts out the raga before we can figure it out" . I just want people to enjoy some rare pieces (atleast what I think are rare - may not be rare to all) and get their own individual satisfaction in getting the raga.

Thanks
Arun

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 09 Jul 2009, 09:26

Thanks Arun ... Sowmya rendered this raga and krithi as a main item at a Music academy concert c1990

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 09 Jul 2009, 10:15

Didn't get this raga, though it seemed familiar in places. Thank you, Arun!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 09 Jul 2009, 10:42

Arun: this quiz took me to areas where I usually do not go and do not even realize I can do anything useful if I go there.

Speaking in code words, here is how it went. On first listen, it sounded like a counter part raga plus enough signals that it does quite belong on that side.
I tried to match with many ragas I sort of know in that area but no success. Then took to the more analytical route ( this is the stuff I usually do not do and not good at ),
did the arithmetic, looked up the melakartha chart and picked out the mela(s). Looked at your results and..... fell of the chair..... I got them exactly right, just as you have mentioned.
The counter part raga that led me to this is the same one you mention there.

I have listened to this song so many times before without even realizing the relationship to its famous friend. That similarity shows up more in the alapana and kalpanaswara than in the song itself.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 09 Jul 2009, 19:32

mohan - yes indeed, and that is the one I refer to in the prelude.

vk -

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 09 Jul 2009, 20:04

Arun
Though it sounded familiar I got completely lost! Since you said it is rarely rendered I quit searching my memry banks (and did not resort to my FFT analysis to decipher

Finally as I looked up your answer I kicked myself for not getting it since I have heard it and loved it long ago! When you are ready you must educate us on this lovely raga. The anecdote you have prefaced is quite entertaining!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 10 Jul 2009, 00:10

thanks cml

- you are asking for a tall order i.e. for me to talk about ragas which are rarely rendered elaborately - this is certainly way out of league. My initial thoughts were explained there in the answer part. I also wonder if SS created or was inspired to create this raga from that other raga (or its similar kind) - except for perhaps more accentuation of that anya swara (?) Also "ri" is very important, and so is the phrase rgsr.... . I think song starts with that phrase (for the first word:i.e. r/g s/r), and it also occurs a lot in the kalpanaswara part of the rendition.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Jul 2009, 00:17

Arun: Exactly my thoughts. When I was listening to it, before I went on the analytical phase, given what I was sensing, I wondered how come no one has created counter part raga to that famous friend only to realize pretty soon this is indeed such an effort.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Jul 2009, 00:22

...in fact I heard the full kalpana swaram (is it chitta swaram?) in one of the renditions available at sangitapriya.(I am not revealing the reference

It is just brilliant.. Is there any reason for this ragam to be ignored by the later vaggeyakaras. Also why is it not commonly rendered in the concerts?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 10 Jul 2009, 00:25

Is it a different rendition? (as I have included the full kalpana swara part of this rendition at the end of the post).

I do know of one composition by a contemporary artist+composer. I am sure there are many others - just that this one is the gold standard and thus people are perhaps unwilling to not showcase. It isnt that rare in concerts - but not that common. I would say about as common as rare treat #1 - may be even more popular

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Jul 2009, 00:44

The interesting thing to know would be those very small minority who do not like its famous friend would like this one.

Someone said the famous friend is too sweet for their tastes. The important substitution does add a bit of melancholy/soulfulness/sadness element to the overall rasa. So this may be tone down the sweetness enough to make it just right level for that minority.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Jul 2009, 00:51

I have the book of ragas by Prof Ramachandran who claims this raga is a janya of the 6th melam with
ArO srgmsmpdns'
Ava s'dnpmgrs
Is it possible?
We can wait till you are ready, to ask Lakshman who may tell us not to our surprise that there are lots of compositions

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 10 Jul 2009, 01:00

impossible. It must be a typo with 5 missing

I think we can talk in direct terms. To speak in veiled references is tiring after a while (and soon becomes less fun too

)

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 10 Jul 2009, 01:01

vk - lot of people find bhairavi to be not sweet and more with melancholy

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Jul 2009, 01:25

Arun
Check Ragapravaham where this raga ia listed under melas
7,26,51,52,56 and 59
(but not 58

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 10 Jul 2009, 01:37

:/ - must be different ragas which used that name over the years - i.e. from history.

The one here which is followed by most musicians for this song (except BMK - who IIRC does do it under 52) can be only in 56 or 58 - and mostly 56 only.

Arun

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Jul 2009, 01:42

OK, no veiled references. I did that to be within the accepted rules of not giving the answer away but we can loosen it a bit as long the raga name itself is not spoken of.

On Bhairavi, agreed, in a limited sense and even then not melancholic but a more subdued rasa than sweet. Beyond that, we all know bhairavi has many dimensions.
The folkish dimension definitely has a celebratory and sweet feel. For example, the ancient kummi village song
'kummi aDi peNNE kummi aDi peNNE..' is celebratory and such similar ( not exact ) essence is found in main stream bhairavi songs. One example that comes to my mind now is the great pAda varnam sAmiyai vara sollaDi sakhiyE' in raga malika, the last charanam in Bhairavi... Anyway, we may be digressing too far from the thread.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Jul 2009, 01:45

Are you confusing with manji?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Jul 2009, 01:57

No. Why?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Jul 2009, 03:45

The melancholy/dainya bhava triggered that thought! This raga does have the dainya bhava..