MSG-Narmada-Suresh Violin Trio @ SKGS -29.8.09

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 29 Aug 2009, 22:29

Sri.M.S.Gopalakrishnan
Dr.Narmada
Sri.G.Suresh - Violin Trio
Sri.J.Vaidyanathan - Mrudangam
Sri.Vaikom Gopalakrishnan - Ghatam

Song list
1.chalamEla - ata thAla varnam - shankrAbharaNam.
2.gam ganapathE - Adhi thAlam tisra nadai - hamsadhwani (s)
3.entarO mahAnubhAvulu - Adhi thAlam - srI rAgam
4.palukavE taminA - Adhi thAlam - pUrnachandrikA - (s)
5.anurAgamulE -rUpakam -(saraswathi ??) (r,s)
6.theliyElEru rAmA - Adhi thAlam - dhEnuka
6.pakkala nilapadi - misrachApu - kharaharapriyA ( r, n @ thanuvunchE , s)
7.nannu pAlimpa - Adhi thAlam - mOhanam ( r, s )
8.neranuchinAnu - Adhi thAlam ( sorry i dont know this rAgam )
9.RTP - shanmugapriyA - Khanda jAthi triputa thAlam 2-kalai

pallavi sAhityam : " mAdhavA kesavA madhusUdhanA
harE krishnA "
rAgamAlika swarAs : shanmugapriyA , kAnadA , sAveri , nAttakurinji , hamsAnandhi , mOhanam , behag, sindhubhaIravI.
10.idathupatham thooki Adum - Adhi thAlam - khAmas
11.thillAna - ( sorry i forgot the rAgam again )
12.niraimathi mugam enum -Adhi thAlam- hamsAnandhi
13.bhavamAna

OMG , what a wonderful concert. one of the best i have ever heard at SKGS . It was just one of those concerts where one couldnt help but just wish that the concert would go on forever . The mike settings were perfect . I didnt have an idea who was Sri.Suresh ( thought that he could be a disciple of MSG sir ) only to find out later that he is his son . Sri . J.Vaidyanathan and Sri.Vaikkom Gopalakrishnan played wonderfully with utmost anticipation . I was expecting the thani to come after nannu pAlimpa , but was left somewhat disappointed when it didnt come . I just felt that giving thani( around 8.30) after the elaborate RTP , curbed the time for them . I felt that percussion dept was not given much importance in this concert .

Overall , Am still recovering from a wonderful evening , leaving the reviewing part to the experts and also happened to meet Sri.Nageswaran sir . Dont know whether any other forumites attended this concert.

Arvind..

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 30 Aug 2009, 01:17

4. anurAgamulE is in saraswati, yes.
8. nenarunchinAnu is in mALavi.

Thanks for the report, Arvind. How long was the concert? How did Suresh play?
Would love to hear the pakkAla nilapaDi...

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 30 Aug 2009, 07:03

bilahari wrote:Thanks for the report, Arvind. How long was the concert? How did Suresh play?
Would love to hear the pakkAla nilapaDi...

Bilahari , Thanks for the clarifications about the rAgAs . The concert was for around 2hrs 50 mins almost.. well , about the performance of Sri. Suresh , even though am least qualified to throw the stone , i would say that suresh's performance was not upto the mark ( or did it sound like that for a novice like me i dont know ) . At some points , sruthi sErla and kAlapramAnam seriyA illa ( sruthi and thAlam were not in place at some points )

I heard that he has started playing concerts only recently with his dad and sister and probably lack of stage experience could be one of the reasons .

About the recording , sorry bilahari as i had to go to this concert directly from office and hence did not have my mp3 player with me. Hope Nageswaran sir is reading this post

Arvind ..

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 30 Aug 2009, 07:12

Details of the pallavi eduppu :

khanda jAthi triputa thAlam - chatusra nadai - 2 kalai
The eduppu is at arai edam after samam
Arudhi is 6 aksharams

,, ma,dha va,, ke,sa va,, ma dhu su dha na
,, ,, ,,

ha ,, re ,, krish ,, na

When notating that it will be

,, tha, ki ta,, tha,ki ta,, thang thing thang thing tha
,, ,, ,,

tha,, ki,, ta,, thom

The kArvai after " thom " ( ie , after "na " in " krishna " overlaps with the kArvai at the samam )

Arvind.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 30 Aug 2009, 07:21

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 30 Aug 2009, 07:22

I also attended the concert. I did observe Nageshwaran Sir immersed in the music being rendered. I think that Suresh played rather poorly in fact if there was a blot in the concert it was his playing. MSG Sir and Narmadha were simply out of the world.It is a pity that such performers get such apoor audience......Mediocrity seems to be ruling the roost in the Carnatic circles......Bye Ragjay

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 30 Aug 2009, 07:36

Arvind, thanks for the info about the pallavi. I guess trikalam wasn't done, right? I read here some time ago that MSG never plays trikalam for the pallavi during solo concerts. I asked about Suresh's playing especially because I have bad memories of his mangling bilahari ragam during their concert in San Diego. He seems to be short on confidence.

I'm disappointed to hear there wasn't a large audience for this concert... I've observed a rather thin audience for TNK's concerts, and rbharath said there was hardly an audience for solos of contemporary violinists like S Varadarajan and RKSK. There seems to be a general aversion to instrumental concerts, at least in Chennai, and that's unfortunate. There is so much to learn and admire about the music of legends like MSG, TNK, etc.

I will put up an elaborate MSG RTP in SaNmugapriya soon--the thanam is to die for...

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 30 Aug 2009, 07:46

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 30 Aug 2009, 08:55

pakkala nilabadi, nannu palimpa and an RTP in the same concert! Wow!

sruti · Post by **sruti** » 30 Aug 2009, 09:54

MSG and Narmadha presented a scintillating recital along with suresh.
nenarunchi in malavi was so interesting. infact there was a good crowd for this concert. Kharaharapriya was presented in splendor and grace by Narmadha.

i would love to here more of Narmadha's solo concerts.in fact her playing reflects the younger days of MSG sir.

the ragamalika swaras were equally invigorating. NATAKURINGI by NARMADHA was exquisite. HAMSANANDI of MSG was sheer essence. i couldn't believe that i spent almost 3 hours in the concert forgetting myself..what an extraordinary performance by Narmadha.....

Suresh ATTEMPTS good sangathis but has to improve in gamaka.his sruthi sense is perfect and it is nice to see the trio performing in good coordination..

laks1972 · Post by **laks1972** » 30 Aug 2009, 10:06

srinivasrgvn wrote:For many, vocal is the only form of CM and they shun all other instrumental concerts!

This , inspite of not understanding the meaning of the kritis in other languages !

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:01

ya bilahari , trikAlam was not done and that MSG sir not doing trikAlam in his solo concerts is now news to me .. and also this pallavi had ample scope to do trikAlam and the pallavi's scope was not utilised fully . I wont say there is an aversion to instrumental concerts in general , as concerts of ravikiran , kadri-AK , draw good crowds in chennai.. But as Srinivasrgvn correctly points out in post no 8, is what i exactly had in mind to post , but fearing controversy i restrained in posting and naming the artistes .

The only thing which i hated about this concert was the percussion dept being sidelined and giving the thani at the fag end of the concert , after the RTP rAgamAlikA swarAs , by which most people had left . Had some senior artistes ( pls dont assume that am degrading Sri.J.Vaidyanathan or Sri.Vaikkom Gopalakrishnan ) accompanied , they would have got a better deal.. This is just my opinion and sorry as a student of mrudangam , i cant help but being supportive ( if not partial ) to the percussion artistes.

@ Srinivasrgvn - Daily tickets at SKGS cost you from Rs 25 to Rs 1000 ( Rs 25 , 50 , 100 , 300 , 500 , 1000) .. I bought an hundred rupees ticket and just managed to sneak in time driving in the horrible panagal park traffic ..

Arvind

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:37

semmu86 wrote: The only thing which i hated about this concert was the percussion dept being sidelined and giving the thani at the fag end of the concert , after the RTP rAgamAlikA swarAs , by which most people had left . Had some senior artistes ( pls dont assume that am degrading Sri.J.Vaidyanathan or Sri.Vaikkom Gopalakrishnan ) accompanied , they would have got a better deal.. This is just my opinion and sorry as a student of mrudangam , i cant help but being supportive ( if not partial ) to the percussion artistes.

Arvind

Arvind,
Lots of concerts one gives tani only at the end of RTP. For eg your guru and parama guru Shri UKS had to take the tani only after RTP in tOdi which was sung after endukku peddala in a famous 1968 MA SSI-LGJ-UKS concert. Perhaps your real grouse may be is that the tani itself was cut short to a minimum hence you being a player yourself you may have felt it bad which is understandable.How long was the tani played?

Just imagine the other side of your POV. If main is sung and then tani is played ,there will always be an earlier exodus of rasikas. I have seen lot of concerts where at the end of tani in main ,rasikas walk out, and at times the entire team which prepares to sing an RTP , decides to skip RTP and just sing one viruththam /slokham and end up with thillAnA and that mega hit tukkada nee nAmA roopamUlaku .

Also in this concert 3 violinists are playing with different levels of skills (they dont need voice rest for sure ), it may make a lot of sense for them to play continuously as they may get into their best of moods and best of form when they play quickly without a gap.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 30 Aug 2009, 14:40

Yes I agree with rajeshnat. Perhaps MSG was conveying, "Don't think this is the main item and go away, there's a pallavi to follow!"

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 31 Aug 2009, 02:35

This is the second or third review I am reading of the trio playing to-gether. Consistently, MSG Sir's ( so what is new !) and to some extent Narmada's playing seemed to have been of high order, every single review about Suresh's has been one of despair. This is rather disappointing and disconcerting.

Hope Nageswaran Sir will get the approval of the master to upload the concert ( assuming a recording has been done ).

appu · Post by **appu** » 31 Aug 2009, 05:01

I heard the MSG trio at Cleveland early this year. Suresh's performance was disappointing then. Looks like not much has changed.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 31 Aug 2009, 18:35

Dear Rajesh - It is not that i was disappointed that the thani was cut short , but the disappointment stemmed from the feeling that JV and VG were reduced to a level of just to keep the time on their instruments . Well , the point you made about that SSI/UKS sir concert is very much true ( but there are also few more things attached to that which i cant put up here )..

I also agree 200% to all other points which you have said .. Yes people have started to become less patient , and would have made their exit in mass numbers had thani got over after nannu pAlimpa.. I now realise maybe the reason for the thani not being given there

.. But still to be brutally frank , when some senior artistes ( i request everyone not to take this concert as an eg, but this is just a generalised statement ) have second rung artistes accompanying them ( especially inn percussion dept ,), we can see the difference very obviously.

Arvind..

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 04 Sep 2009, 21:18

Not to take anything away from this concert, but always all musicians(I am observing for (y)ears ) if they know SVK is going to review, they always sing and load with thyagarAja's krithis. Though not sure if this is indeed the case .

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/09/04/stor ... 030200.htm

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 04 Sep 2009, 23:38

Who is this SVK?

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Sep 2009, 07:18

I don't know this SVK's real name but apparently he's some graded AIR vocalist with actual musical knowledge who doesn't like scrutinising music with this knowledge for fear of bewildering the hapless masses who read his oh-so-pretentious reviews but are somehow able to comprehend phrases like

"...Gopalakrishnan wished to establish his stature on musical idealism."
"He preferred the radiant core of the saintÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s music than the dull periphery of formula presentation."
[What, pray, is the "dull periphery of formula presentation"? Dikshitar and Syama Shastri, the other two composers usually worked into any old "formula presentation"?]
"grit and firmness of his violin virtuosity"
"The balanced approach free from any pretence of profundity"- this is just great irony!
" flights of fingering felicity"
"fastened their rhythmic beats"
"balance between song and sound"

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Sep 2009, 08:35

Bilahari -

Actually, it is the a***s at the newspaper who continue to publish this drivel who should be faulted, and not just SVK!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 05 Sep 2009, 09:26

While I differ with the perspective from which SVK reviews concerts most of the time, I find his review remarkably consistent and accurate from his POV,

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 05 Sep 2009, 09:31

Bilahari SVK is S.V.Krishnamurthy who was the subeditor of the Hindu. His Father was also a music critic and between them they have been reviewing music for about a century.He has turned 85 today . The fact that a paper like the Hindu keeps him on their rolls and seeks his review is in itself testimony to the fact that he is musically knowledgeable. .I dont think that MSG Sir needs to prove any point for getting a good review.Bilahari if the critic is critical then everybody is out to claw him It may be your perception that what he pens is drivel. But the context in which he states and what he states is held in high esteem by the musicians of the earlier generation By the way I can bet that the profound effect a Tyagagarja krithi can have on the audience or for that matter of the other composers of the Trinity cannot be matched I attended the concert and I can relate the so called drivel to the context of the concert. I hold no brief for SVK and I do not agree with all that he says .But for this concert the review is apt. Bye Ragjay

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Sep 2009, 10:16

Nobody's questioning SVK's musical knowledge, but it would be nice to see some glimpses of the same in his reviews. With merely the songlist from the concert in question, even an ignoramus with ready access to a thesaurus can write the type of reviews SVK does. They neither benefit the readers nor the artistes. This is just my opinion, and I don't want to derail this thread about a nice concert.

Ravi, yes, he's only partly to blame!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 05 Sep 2009, 10:40

bilahari wrote: "He preferred the radiant core of the saintÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s music than the dull periphery of formula presentation."
[What, pray, is the "dull periphery of formula presentation"? Dikshitar and Syama Shastri, the other two composers usually worked into any old "formula presentation"?]

I think you have parsed this wrong. "Dull periphery of formula presentation" is to be juxtaposed against "radiant core" - not the "saint's music".

"The balanced approach free from any pretence of profundity"- this is just great irony!

Touche

"...Gopalakrishnan wished to establish his stature on musical idealism."
"grit and firmness of his violin virtuosity"
" flights of fingering felicity"
"fastened their rhythmic beats"
"balance between song and sound"

Great dense lines, I would say.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 05 Sep 2009, 13:22

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 05 Sep 2009, 14:20

flights of fingering felicity

On such an august and respectable forum, I don't know if I dare mention that Felicity (meaning, of course, happiness) is an English girl's name.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Sep 2009, 17:49

Nick!!!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Sep 2009, 19:02

Wow, there are so many dimensions to SVK's writing!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Sep 2009, 02:41

My son's friend's baby sister was named Felicity (in good old England), and my four year old exclaimed: the baby is called Felocity

Must have heard his older sister mention velocity, we guessed!

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 06 Sep 2009, 04:19

I completely agree with srinivasrgvn....can some body please try and explain in simple english (to a mundane soul like me) what exactly SVK intended to say ? Thanks

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Sep 2009, 04:27

It's only one more step from felocity to ferocity!

Best correct the mistake and return to felicity

(The New Indian Express used the word pendency the other day. Pending... Pendant... latent... latency... so pendancy? How do they make this stuff up?)

I've no time for the stuff that Bilahari is posting, but at least it uses actual words. Mind you... it is said that Shakespeare added greatly to the English language, by making it up as he went along

.

Anybody else ever go through that thing in English class where one has to write without using the word "nice"? It's tough, and I can appreciate that the critics do not have an easy task to find a way of saying "he played well" in a hundred different ways.

.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 07 Sep 2009, 01:15

Sam Swaminathan wrote:I completely agree with srinivasrgvn....can some body please try and explain in simple english (to a mundane soul like me) what exactly SVK intended to say ? Thanks

Hope you won't be asking someone to explain in simple notes what exactly was sung in the concert next

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 07 Sep 2009, 01:21

nick H wrote:On such an august and respectable forum...

You must have us confused with the other classical music message board that you contribute to

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 07 Sep 2009, 01:31

srinivasrgvn wrote:A person should first be able to understand the review. It should be readily perceived. A person shouldn't be wondering at words, running to the dictionary!

What is wrong with running to the dictionary? Why can't reading a review be an educational experience? Some people like to take the time and be precise with their expression rather than ramble in a semi thought out fashion and subject their readers to a form of verbal diarrhea.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 07 Sep 2009, 01:36

srinivasrgvn wrote: "A poem should be palpable and mute
As a globed fruit,"

What fruit - Draksha, Kadali or Narikela?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Sep 2009, 01:44

sureshvv: One doesn't need to run for a dictionary (except maybe to wield as a weapon) to realize that the stuff quoted from Sri SVK's review is drivel! Exceptionally well written reviews need not be loaded with such a profusion of bombastic and meaningless phrases that in the final go, describe diddly squat - there are so many well written reviews - both in the sense of conveying the music presented and the emotions and atmosphere evoked with a masterful command of the language, but you will be hard pressed to find those in the usual reviews in The Hindu!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Sep 2009, 01:47

sureshvv wrote:Why can't reading a review be an educational experience? Some people like to take the time and be precise with their expression rather than ramble in a semi thought out fashion and subject their readers to a form of verbal diarrhea.

Do you mean to say that those phrases quoted from the review were 'precise'? I would call that outpouring the worst case of verbal diarrhea only if I was in an uncharacteristically charitable mood.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 07 Sep 2009, 02:14

rshankar.....Amen !!

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 07 Sep 2009, 06:16

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 07 Sep 2009, 10:47

Sureshpv....you ask some one for some thing only when you do not have it....if I have trouble understanding some thing the artist has rendered, I do not see any thing wrong in seeking clarification from some one who knows more than me. In the current context, in all honesty, I cannot understand what exactly SVK is trying to convey. So, where is the harm in asking for a clarification? As srinivasargvn states why all this bombastic usage of the language, when simple statements could have equally conveyed the same message. Studying in school we used to depend on "konar's" notes for understanding the famous tamil work "Thirukural"! We thought that was hilarious!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 07 Sep 2009, 13:48

rshankar: It appears to me that an objective evaluation of this review has suffered because of the byline. As one who disagrees with SVK more often than concurs with his observations, I can empathize. But I have to disagree on 2 points: viz that this "review is drivel" and that the "phrases are meaningless and describe diddly squat".

I do not have SVK's penchant for the pen, so I am probably going to fall short by a mile - but I shall try anyway.

" flights of fingering felicity"

This one is easy. What distinguishes MSG's playing is the speed with which his fingers seem to glide along the strings and the enjoyment that shows when he plays.
I see "flights" describing the speed of play and "felicity" describing the bliss that he brings to the performance. SVK employs some generous alliteration to describe the felicity that he felt himself.

"...Gopalakrishnan wished to establish his stature on musical idealism."
"He preferred the radiant core of the saintÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s music than the dull periphery of formula presentation."

According to SVK, music is supposed to be played foremost to be faithful to the composer's conception both lyrically and musically and not for the mere temporary enjoyment of the listeners. The idea is to elevate the rasikas so they appreciate and accept the exhortation of the Saint composer. He indicates that MSG understands this well and that he abade by this principle. Avoiding over emphasis on musical ornamentation (dull periphery of formula presentation) and bringing out the Bhava in the composition (radiant core) seems to have been well appreciated by the reviewer.

"fastened their rhythmic beats"

Here SVK seems to be complimenting the artiste's adherance to laya and praising the artistes for not slipping or extending the kala pramanam.

"balance between song and sound"

Seems to me he is complimenting the audio arrangements and that he sees amplification as a necessary evil.

"grit and firmness of his violin virtuosity"

This seems to be about the fact that although MSG is aging and appears quite frail, once he sits down to perform a different strength seems to have taken over.

"The balanced approach free from any pretence of profundity"

This seems to be about violin playing without over emphasis on technique (like playing 3 strings together or switching octaves several times per sangati).

Let us not forget that this man may have heard more music than most of us put together and sometimes his views are anachronistic and he is rather opinionated. He must also possess some extraordinary political skills to survive this long in his career. But let us not call his writing drivel or meaningless - it only goes to show our ignorance or disaffection to detail.

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 07 Sep 2009, 14:41

Sureshvv I agree with you in what you say.SVK is a seasoned critic and is held in esteem by a lot of musicians of the past and present.Everytime his reviews are discussed and he runs down a performance he is lambasted in this forum ,now he praises a performance his review is being labeled as a drivel Certainly he is musically sure of what he writes and it is not his business to educate his readers on music.If his reviews are drivel then I shudder to think what one would have to say about the reviews of Subbudu some of which are quite nasty.SVK pens his impressions about the concert, one is free to agree or disagree with his views,but merely because one cannot understand what he says and in what context he states and conclude that the stuff written is drivel is obnoxious.Certainly he is much better than the most other critics of Hindu and other newspaper critics I do not hold any brief for him but am only giving my views.,which members may not accept. In the context of the concert which I attended I am able to relate his remarks. Bye Raghavan

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 07 Sep 2009, 14:56

Thank you Suresh...I now understand what SVK intended to say....

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Sep 2009, 19:17

Suresh - I have absolutely no problems deciphering what SVK means for the most part, but I stick to my opinion, because the same points he wants to make can be conveyed in a much more elegant manner. One does not need a penchant for the pen (these are not literary reviews), but the ability to speak from the heart to reach the rasikas, and IMO, statements straight from the heart usually do not need to be couched in such bombastic language.

Maybe not drivel, but certainly not a review that makes me vicariously enjoy the concert, and under that category, a waste of space. Anyway, I am not going to post anymore comments on this topic.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 07 Sep 2009, 19:29

I simply find SVK largely irrelevant

- both to practitioners and also a very large % of the cm listening populace. That he has survived this long tells as much about his employer as it does about him. And it also speaks about the cm field also i.e. w.r.t the role of critiquing.

Anyway, based on some of my (albeit very limited) interactions with musicians, I do not think he is held in high regard (i.e. as to garner respect) by them w.r.t to his musican acume (I do not mean to imply he doesn't know stuff). I think musicians have much much higher regard for their gurus and established veterans in the field.

Arun

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 07 Sep 2009, 20:47

I simply find SVK largely irrelevant

After such discussion, that's almost a shame

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 09 Sep 2009, 21:50

Sam Swaminathan wrote:Thank you Suresh...I now understand what SVK intended to say....

You are most welcome! My earlier comment to you was not meant as a sarcastic "smart alec" remark but out of genuine concern that when something profound is interpreted and laid out in simpler terms, it gets diluted. I was afraid of becoming "Konaar"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Sep 2009, 23:08

Suresh,
I thought you were already doing konAr

Those 'don't have to study the original, this digest will do' notes are still around from our ancient days?

Srinivasaraghavan,
You will be surprised to know that most NRIs are not the way you picture them to be. By the way, I think sureshvv is from your town!

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 10 Sep 2009, 07:55