A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
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mohan
- Posts: 2808
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 16:52
These sort of innovations are occurring more and more frequently in bharatanatyam. There have been dance dramas based on stories of Alladin and Snow White. I think dancers Dr Padma Subramaniam and Bharati Sivaji have performed Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake.
I guess these new themes are chosen to appeal to the audiences and performers.
I guess these new themes are chosen to appeal to the audiences and performers.
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Nick H
- Posts: 9472
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
I have no problems at all with the idea, though. I won't comment on this performance; I didn't watch enough, and I am completely unqualified, but I have no problems with dance themes not being religious/mythological.
I have been spell-bound by dancers taking modern themes --- and I also became really fed up with seeing the unwinding of that sari again and again and again.
Equally, I wouldn't argue with those who might find this view offensive, maintaining that Bharatnatyam is about religion.
I have been spell-bound by dancers taking modern themes --- and I also became really fed up with seeing the unwinding of that sari again and again and again.
Equally, I wouldn't argue with those who might find this view offensive, maintaining that Bharatnatyam is about religion.
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ardhanariswar
- Posts: 107
- Joined: 01 Apr 2008, 22:36
I don't mind unconventional/modern takes on the Varnam. People are doing all sorts of things to varnams, from adapting tana varnams to krithis.
As for the themes, it really depends on the content. Looking at the Wizard of Oz from a children's story, this is very appropriate for the audience as it is a story everyone is familiar with. I previously had the desire of converting some scenes from Romeo and Juliet into a Varnam, but I just didn't have the time to translate and compose new music. It seems like a good idea though.
What I can't ignore is the whole political significance of Wizard of Oz. It's not just a children's story, but a satire on the political and economic situation in America during the Great Depression. It would be very interesting to see a dance explore those themes, but definitely hard to digest, never mind compose/choreograph.
As for the themes, it really depends on the content. Looking at the Wizard of Oz from a children's story, this is very appropriate for the audience as it is a story everyone is familiar with. I previously had the desire of converting some scenes from Romeo and Juliet into a Varnam, but I just didn't have the time to translate and compose new music. It seems like a good idea though.
What I can't ignore is the whole political significance of Wizard of Oz. It's not just a children's story, but a satire on the political and economic situation in America during the Great Depression. It would be very interesting to see a dance explore those themes, but definitely hard to digest, never mind compose/choreograph.
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raj-123
- Posts: 64
- Joined: 24 Dec 2006, 20:36
Yet to listen/watch. but from program details on website, lyrics seem to be in sanskrit. says lyrics were developed in pure sanskrit.
Ludwig van Beethoven - symphony no. 5 in c minor, op. 67 - i. allegro con brio
Alisha commences her recital with a pure rhythmic dance set to one of the most popular songs in western classical music. She offers flowers to Lord Nataraja and pays respect to God, the Guru, the orchestra and the audience.
Alarippu
This is a traditional dance comprising of fascinating flexions of the neck and shoulders to the accompaniment of rhythmic syllables. This dance is in Tisram or 3 beats.
Jathiswaram - Ragam Kapi & Adi Talam
In this item of pure dance, several mathematical sequences (jatis) are woven to a set of musical notes (swaras). This Jatiswaram has been composed for Alisha by the veena player, Sheila Sudhakar.
Wizard of Oz Varnam - Ragamalika & Adi Talam
The popular story of the "Wizard of Oz"
Ludwig van Beethoven - symphony no. 5 in c minor, op. 67 - i. allegro con brio
Alisha commences her recital with a pure rhythmic dance set to one of the most popular songs in western classical music. She offers flowers to Lord Nataraja and pays respect to God, the Guru, the orchestra and the audience.
Alarippu
This is a traditional dance comprising of fascinating flexions of the neck and shoulders to the accompaniment of rhythmic syllables. This dance is in Tisram or 3 beats.
Jathiswaram - Ragam Kapi & Adi Talam
In this item of pure dance, several mathematical sequences (jatis) are woven to a set of musical notes (swaras). This Jatiswaram has been composed for Alisha by the veena player, Sheila Sudhakar.
Wizard of Oz Varnam - Ragamalika & Adi Talam
The popular story of the "Wizard of Oz"
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asitav
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 10:57
I logged on to get info about lyrics, but found this intriguing.
The dance choreography is very apt, the dancer is performs the characters with ease- perhaps the hugest plus with a contemporary theme. Not sure where this program happened, the music is fresh, thoughtful and melodious. Yes, the lyrics are in Sanskrit, but easily relatable. First time listening and I couldn't resist humming the opening pallavi.
I also noticed that the format is very much traditional - and so are the tunes. I'd like to see who is the lyricist/ music composer on this one.
The dance choreography is very apt, the dancer is performs the characters with ease- perhaps the hugest plus with a contemporary theme. Not sure where this program happened, the music is fresh, thoughtful and melodious. Yes, the lyrics are in Sanskrit, but easily relatable. First time listening and I couldn't resist humming the opening pallavi.
I also noticed that the format is very much traditional - and so are the tunes. I'd like to see who is the lyricist/ music composer on this one.
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arasi
- Posts: 16873
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
I saw the clip now. Previously, I saw just the beginning which was all english intro. Yes, the lyrics were in sanskrit. Interesting concept. This is the first time I have seen (heard about) experimentation in an arangETRam. Then again, I do not know much at all about dance.
Mohan,
The feet were painted more in red which covered her toes like shoes!
Mohan,
The feet were painted more in red which covered her toes like shoes!
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aatma
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 07 Oct 2009, 10:32
Hi,
I saw the item & altogether it was nice & also very good effort from all.But what I felt was that why
the "KALAPRAMANAM" is not in its tempo. Always getting deviated from nattuvanar?????????
I saw the item & altogether it was nice & also very good effort from all.But what I felt was that why
the "KALAPRAMANAM" is not in its tempo. Always getting deviated from nattuvanar?????????
Last edited by aatma on 14 Oct 2009, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Anita Menon
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 23 Apr 2010, 09:59
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
I just found this discussion. I appreciate all the feedback both as the teacher and mother of the dancer. The varnam was specially written for my daughter by Archana Mungara (based in Portland, OR).
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VK RAMAN
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:29
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
Here is a ghroup called shantishanti, from our part of the country, who recite sanskrit slokas:
http://www.shantishanti.com/
http://www.shantishanti.com/
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natyasri
- Posts: 322
- Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:05
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
here are my thoughts :
1) I like to experiment withing the set rules, but then what are rules? what is that is classical and what is not? what is folk and what is not? what is that unique thing that has made our classical dances survive and be ever so popular for all these millions of years- its the devotion or the inherent bhakti bhava/ spirituality and the holiness. the dedication of everything to the almighty, the ever present urge of the atma for the paramatma, the urge for the finite to mearge and be one with /in the infinte. is it not? where do i find this in Wizard of Oz? whats spiritual in it? whats holy in it? is watching or performing it give anyone a spiritual experiance? its like giving a lollipop to the kid rather than teaching the benefits of apple. sad that we encourage. why not rather look at the ancient historical characters (what the 'goras' so happily call mythological characters) with a contemporary point of view, say Draupadi or Sita. Thas experiment, still spiritual and holy and yet contemporary.
2) The title suggests a 'tradition' what is it? what is in this varnam that is so traditional- is it the thought that should be traditional or the what meets the eye? I feel funny when young girls wear traditional dresses that show the parts more than it should cover. I wish their parents tought them better.
3) Understanding the essence is more important. There are countless bharatanatyam dancers across the world. and many are doing very good too. to do something different for the sake of it, is sad, really sad. how many thoughts/experiments have been on the various types of namaskarams themselves? there is still so much to learn in what we think that we know that we can wait for another millennium before we need to borrow from the west.
4) how many of kalidasa's compositions that our next gen know. i will be surprised if the know kalidasa at all.
5) todays 10-12yr olds can give us a lesson or two unlike our or the prev gen. they are very well equipped with their mental faculties to learn and understand much of the rich indian literature, classical and contemporary.
6) Personally I would not encourage or support such experiments. In a television dance show someone very innocently ,experimented a contemporary song " jumma chumma de de" in a classical dance, Kathakali. my reaction is almost the same for the both.
Please note: they are just my thought, i dont intend to hurt anyone
1) I like to experiment withing the set rules, but then what are rules? what is that is classical and what is not? what is folk and what is not? what is that unique thing that has made our classical dances survive and be ever so popular for all these millions of years- its the devotion or the inherent bhakti bhava/ spirituality and the holiness. the dedication of everything to the almighty, the ever present urge of the atma for the paramatma, the urge for the finite to mearge and be one with /in the infinte. is it not? where do i find this in Wizard of Oz? whats spiritual in it? whats holy in it? is watching or performing it give anyone a spiritual experiance? its like giving a lollipop to the kid rather than teaching the benefits of apple. sad that we encourage. why not rather look at the ancient historical characters (what the 'goras' so happily call mythological characters) with a contemporary point of view, say Draupadi or Sita. Thas experiment, still spiritual and holy and yet contemporary.
2) The title suggests a 'tradition' what is it? what is in this varnam that is so traditional- is it the thought that should be traditional or the what meets the eye? I feel funny when young girls wear traditional dresses that show the parts more than it should cover. I wish their parents tought them better.
3) Understanding the essence is more important. There are countless bharatanatyam dancers across the world. and many are doing very good too. to do something different for the sake of it, is sad, really sad. how many thoughts/experiments have been on the various types of namaskarams themselves? there is still so much to learn in what we think that we know that we can wait for another millennium before we need to borrow from the west.
4) how many of kalidasa's compositions that our next gen know. i will be surprised if the know kalidasa at all.
5) todays 10-12yr olds can give us a lesson or two unlike our or the prev gen. they are very well equipped with their mental faculties to learn and understand much of the rich indian literature, classical and contemporary.
6) Personally I would not encourage or support such experiments. In a television dance show someone very innocently ,experimented a contemporary song " jumma chumma de de" in a classical dance, Kathakali. my reaction is almost the same for the both.
Please note: they are just my thought, i dont intend to hurt anyone
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VK RAMAN
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:29
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
VK RAMAN wrote:Here is a group called shantishanti, from our part of the country, who recite sanskrit slokas:
http://www.shantishanti.com/
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rshankar
- Posts: 13754
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:26
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
Natyasri,
I would like to take another path altogether - our culture, our ways and tradition actually define the experience of divinity, and devotion very broadly - according to Adi Sankara and his advaitic tenets, when knowledge matures and lodges securely in the mind, it becomes wisdom, and when wisdom issues forth in action, it becomes devotion. As I understand this, there is no evidence of religion or religious practices or sentiments in this definition.
Using that broad definition, for me, in a dance performance, spirituality is experienced by the dancer when he/she becomes one with the dance - understands it, internalizes it, and makes it their own. The viewer experience becomes spiritual when this is communicated to the audience. Some topics are easier for a dancer to relate to and 'spiritualize', and others are easier for an audience to feel 'spiritualized' - there is an intersecting set where this is experienced by both.
If one wants a spiritual experience through the performance of young girls who can't understand or relate to why the heck a nAyika would wait around or forgive an errant man even if he were god himself, I think it has to come from themes that they can relate to. A wooden performance of a very, very traditional and mythological piece leaves me unmoved and far from feeling spiritual. I think this is probably the reason why dancers like Smt. Mamta Niyogi-Nakhra from Canda have fashioned child-friendly themes that can be intensely spiritual, without being religious.
I do not think that 'The Wizard of Oz' can be compared to 'jumma cumma de' which I think is very banal. Themes like The Wizard of Oz tell a story - and offer scope for expressing and communicating several different emotions.
Again, these are just my thoughts!
I would like to take another path altogether - our culture, our ways and tradition actually define the experience of divinity, and devotion very broadly - according to Adi Sankara and his advaitic tenets, when knowledge matures and lodges securely in the mind, it becomes wisdom, and when wisdom issues forth in action, it becomes devotion. As I understand this, there is no evidence of religion or religious practices or sentiments in this definition.
Using that broad definition, for me, in a dance performance, spirituality is experienced by the dancer when he/she becomes one with the dance - understands it, internalizes it, and makes it their own. The viewer experience becomes spiritual when this is communicated to the audience. Some topics are easier for a dancer to relate to and 'spiritualize', and others are easier for an audience to feel 'spiritualized' - there is an intersecting set where this is experienced by both.
If one wants a spiritual experience through the performance of young girls who can't understand or relate to why the heck a nAyika would wait around or forgive an errant man even if he were god himself, I think it has to come from themes that they can relate to. A wooden performance of a very, very traditional and mythological piece leaves me unmoved and far from feeling spiritual. I think this is probably the reason why dancers like Smt. Mamta Niyogi-Nakhra from Canda have fashioned child-friendly themes that can be intensely spiritual, without being religious.
I do not think that 'The Wizard of Oz' can be compared to 'jumma cumma de' which I think is very banal. Themes like The Wizard of Oz tell a story - and offer scope for expressing and communicating several different emotions.
Again, these are just my thoughts!
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natyasri
- Posts: 322
- Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:05
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
rshankar,
i respect your thoughts.
at the same time, let me tell you this- i started learning dance since i was 3 1/2 yrs old. my teacher rather made us understand the themes of the dance than creating something like this. iam not old enough to be catagorized under previous generation. but panchatantra was something besides the stories in my english text book that i could easily relate to. but never did my teacher saw it befitting to teach me those in bharatanatyam. also do u really think that the vast Indian literature- some,more apt to bharatanatyam, has nothing to offer to this and the next generation bharatanatyam dancers that they can relate, express? do you really think they have a spiritual experiance while doing such items as W of O? - well, i would not comment on that because its very personal.
dont you think by teaching the indian literature thru dance, we are passing on our culture and by choosing these contemporary themes we are failing to do so. would it not impress and make you feel safe, if a 16yr old talks about kalidasa's ritusamhara or meghasandesham? or say when a 13 yr old interprets and expresses "sharanagati" in his/her own understaning or way of looking at it?
i dont know if these contemporary themes are good or not. but iam scared that our literature is going into darkness, thrown into a big black hole without an end. and no one cares about it.
If as a mother i ignore a composition like' pushpavilapam' will my daughter ever know it or understand it, let alone value it.
i dont know how much i make sense. Religion is definately a path you choose for a spirtual experience. and that experience itself has nothing to do with religion, i understand.
but look at it this way, is varnam not supposed to be more than a mere story telling piece?
i guess that iam just not for these kind of western contemporary themes for bharatanatyam- atleast not now.
i respect your thoughts.
at the same time, let me tell you this- i started learning dance since i was 3 1/2 yrs old. my teacher rather made us understand the themes of the dance than creating something like this. iam not old enough to be catagorized under previous generation. but panchatantra was something besides the stories in my english text book that i could easily relate to. but never did my teacher saw it befitting to teach me those in bharatanatyam. also do u really think that the vast Indian literature- some,more apt to bharatanatyam, has nothing to offer to this and the next generation bharatanatyam dancers that they can relate, express? do you really think they have a spiritual experiance while doing such items as W of O? - well, i would not comment on that because its very personal.
dont you think by teaching the indian literature thru dance, we are passing on our culture and by choosing these contemporary themes we are failing to do so. would it not impress and make you feel safe, if a 16yr old talks about kalidasa's ritusamhara or meghasandesham? or say when a 13 yr old interprets and expresses "sharanagati" in his/her own understaning or way of looking at it?
i dont know if these contemporary themes are good or not. but iam scared that our literature is going into darkness, thrown into a big black hole without an end. and no one cares about it.
If as a mother i ignore a composition like' pushpavilapam' will my daughter ever know it or understand it, let alone value it.
i dont know how much i make sense. Religion is definately a path you choose for a spirtual experience. and that experience itself has nothing to do with religion, i understand.
but look at it this way, is varnam not supposed to be more than a mere story telling piece?
i guess that iam just not for these kind of western contemporary themes for bharatanatyam- atleast not now.
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asitav
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 10:57
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
I watched the dance in question once more and find it absurd and ignorant to compare the innocent yet 'by the book' depiction of a very straight forward story by a young child to Bollywood type music/ dance.
India is the origin of many art forms- Bharatanatyam and Carnatic music included. Back in the time of its origination, which is clearly divine, some 'guidelines' have been putforth with regards to the do's and don'ts. Fast forward a few centuries, dancers within India tried to incorporate non-mythological, non religious themes into dance. It is not only because they wanted to portray something novel, but also because for a real artist, art is a form of expression. Art cannot be inhibited by the boundaries of a country, religion or a sect of people.
There is not one single rule to my knowledge, in any of the scriptures to date barring people from writing songs on non-Indian themes. Dr. Balamurali Krishna wrote 'Kannula panduga Russia'- it is not religious, not related to India, yet traditional in its format, its gamakams and its presentation. Likewise, in Bharatanatyam, the hasta viniyogams and other lessons are generic enough to be applicable to include a wide variety of cultures and items around us. If a dance teacher is okay with a child performing Panchatantra or depicting Sita and Draupadi, but not with a similar story from another part of the globe, it is teaching the next generation to be narrow minded. More than that, it is teaching that Bharatanatyam, as a dance form, is incapable of depicting anything that is not Indian- which is clearly absurd.
About our next generation not knowing the works of great poets like Kalidasa, is a failure from our end. Yes, you can definitely try and teach them Meghadootam, or Malavikaagnimitra, or Kumara Sambhavam. It is critical to understand that performing a non Indian story and Indian historical story is not as important as choosing a story that is 'danceable' Vs not being suitable for dance. I can quote 10 stories off the top of my head in Panchatantra that are not danceable by a single individual.
The individual boundaries of what should and should'nt be chosen for performance, is clearly a personal preference. Artists like T.M.Krishna have identified themselves as athiests, while their admirers claim to be realizing their favorite deities during their performance. Clearly an indication, that the perception of art is in the eyes of the beholder. What we see just proves our level of openness and understanding. Not liking the traditional performance of a non-Indian theme is definitely the barrier/ignorance on the viewer's point. Being able to perform and choreograph to a non- Indian concept using an Indian artform is the superiority of the artist and the performer.
India is the origin of many art forms- Bharatanatyam and Carnatic music included. Back in the time of its origination, which is clearly divine, some 'guidelines' have been putforth with regards to the do's and don'ts. Fast forward a few centuries, dancers within India tried to incorporate non-mythological, non religious themes into dance. It is not only because they wanted to portray something novel, but also because for a real artist, art is a form of expression. Art cannot be inhibited by the boundaries of a country, religion or a sect of people.
There is not one single rule to my knowledge, in any of the scriptures to date barring people from writing songs on non-Indian themes. Dr. Balamurali Krishna wrote 'Kannula panduga Russia'- it is not religious, not related to India, yet traditional in its format, its gamakams and its presentation. Likewise, in Bharatanatyam, the hasta viniyogams and other lessons are generic enough to be applicable to include a wide variety of cultures and items around us. If a dance teacher is okay with a child performing Panchatantra or depicting Sita and Draupadi, but not with a similar story from another part of the globe, it is teaching the next generation to be narrow minded. More than that, it is teaching that Bharatanatyam, as a dance form, is incapable of depicting anything that is not Indian- which is clearly absurd.
About our next generation not knowing the works of great poets like Kalidasa, is a failure from our end. Yes, you can definitely try and teach them Meghadootam, or Malavikaagnimitra, or Kumara Sambhavam. It is critical to understand that performing a non Indian story and Indian historical story is not as important as choosing a story that is 'danceable' Vs not being suitable for dance. I can quote 10 stories off the top of my head in Panchatantra that are not danceable by a single individual.
The individual boundaries of what should and should'nt be chosen for performance, is clearly a personal preference. Artists like T.M.Krishna have identified themselves as athiests, while their admirers claim to be realizing their favorite deities during their performance. Clearly an indication, that the perception of art is in the eyes of the beholder. What we see just proves our level of openness and understanding. Not liking the traditional performance of a non-Indian theme is definitely the barrier/ignorance on the viewer's point. Being able to perform and choreograph to a non- Indian concept using an Indian artform is the superiority of the artist and the performer.
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natyasri
- Posts: 322
- Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:05
Re: A very contemporary mArgam - innovation within tradition
you are very right in what ever you have said asitav. but there are a few thing:
Why is there a thinking that taking non-indian themes necessary to prove one as an artist, or to be superior? have any of our previous generations taken such subjects, or is it that their artistic capabilities were limited? i think it is truly superior to convey the indian subjects/literature convincingly to the foreign audience and make them relate to it, is the real challenge- spirutuality knows no boundaries as u say.
While i said about panchatantra etc, i am definately talking about danceable literature yet that can be related by the young crowd of today.
These contemporary themes has become a fashion. what happens in this thrust is we lose our own base.
i definately donot agree that such experiments are imeperative for the artist. how many non indian artists have acutally done any type of work on indian literature. here i dont mean give and take. but is it not necessary to first learn and understand and relate to , to our culture- be it the choreographer or the performer, and then move ahead.
i dont know, but i see a definate end and death to so many things and so many are already gone. i may sound negative and cliched, but mark my words and this post, and check back after 20 years and see how much truth is there.
There are certain things that shud be left as untouched as possible just to let them be alive. you can see history and make out the end of so many art forms.
i will definately be shocked if i have atleast one agree to more than 25% of what i say. but as i said before, just check back after 20 years and you will know.
Why is there a thinking that taking non-indian themes necessary to prove one as an artist, or to be superior? have any of our previous generations taken such subjects, or is it that their artistic capabilities were limited? i think it is truly superior to convey the indian subjects/literature convincingly to the foreign audience and make them relate to it, is the real challenge- spirutuality knows no boundaries as u say.
While i said about panchatantra etc, i am definately talking about danceable literature yet that can be related by the young crowd of today.
These contemporary themes has become a fashion. what happens in this thrust is we lose our own base.
i definately donot agree that such experiments are imeperative for the artist. how many non indian artists have acutally done any type of work on indian literature. here i dont mean give and take. but is it not necessary to first learn and understand and relate to , to our culture- be it the choreographer or the performer, and then move ahead.
i dont know, but i see a definate end and death to so many things and so many are already gone. i may sound negative and cliched, but mark my words and this post, and check back after 20 years and see how much truth is there.
There are certain things that shud be left as untouched as possible just to let them be alive. you can see history and make out the end of so many art forms.
i will definately be shocked if i have atleast one agree to more than 25% of what i say. but as i said before, just check back after 20 years and you will know.