rAgA of this tillAnA

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 29 Oct 2009, 19:03

I have u/l a tillAnA. The announcer says it is kApi but it sounds like Anandabhairavi to me. Can someone please confirm? Thanks.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ml79in

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Oct 2009, 21:50

A very nice one! Ananda bhairavi, of course. The experts will say if it was just a typo or there was any kApi element. One of the sangatis (because the kApi idea was planted in me!)--did it bring a hint of kApi? a particular daivatam, perhaps? Then again, I was prepped to listen to one!
A nice, sedate tillAnA, sung well by the two women.
TSI proveshere that a tillAna doesn't exist simply to serve as a splashy finale to a concert.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 30 Oct 2009, 04:56

Thanks arasi for confirming it.

hianusree · Post by **hianusree** » 30 Oct 2009, 09:14

Was it the tillana that was broadcast on AIR on 28th oct '09 morning. Because I heard the 8.45 A.M concert on the radio and it was announced kapi tillana and even i felt that there was touch of kapi and finally it started sounding like anandabhairavi. may be it was a ragamalika tillana?? or the announcer was carried off by the first few phrases of the singers. The singers were Mambalam Sisters.

hianusree · Post by **hianusree** » 30 Oct 2009, 09:20

Also can if possible can you please send me to my mail id, a tillana they sung on that day. it was a tillana by OottukAdu Venkata Subbaier. i dont remember the raga. It was a good concert indeed to hear!!!!!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Oct 2009, 09:25

hi anusri!
Thanks for naming the artistes as Mambalam Sisters.

Lakshman,
Here's expert opinion (not mine!): Suddha daivatam and antara gAndhAram occur in both rAgams. Still, the tillAnA starts off as kApi...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Oct 2009, 09:58

>One of the sangatis (because the kApi idea was planted in me!)--did it bring a hint of kApi?

Same here. If I did not get planted the kApi idea, I would have struggled with it up to 1:37 and probably considered the whole thing AB. From 'Ananda nadamaDum natarAjan' it is indeed Ananda Bhairavi.

Up to 1:37, it is bit too much of a tightrope.

hianusree · Post by **hianusree** » 30 Oct 2009, 09:59

But the when you hear again and again it seems to be anandabhairavi only because even the first phrase has the swaras: S; S G R- R G; m p m P..............

And "S; S G R" is typical ananda bhairavi phrase is it not, and all the more they sing it with the stress"azutham"that we give to the phrase especially in ananda bhairavi. I downloaded it and listened it.

Sorry if am wrong!!!!!!!!!

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 30 Oct 2009, 20:11

The program is available here:

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/tvg/UPLO ... R_Chithra/

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 30 Oct 2009, 21:38

Lakshman
Perhaps it was a too fast advice to TVG who has changed the liisting

It does definitely sound Anandabhairavi except towards the end. Too much use of D1 as far as I can hear.
What does your book say?
I will wait for a final verdict from Arun!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 30 Oct 2009, 21:43

CML: Just to mess you up a little bit, now that you have the kApi idea, listen to the first minute and a half again and see if you perceive some kApi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 31 Oct 2009, 00:00

VK
I am just mesmerized by the initial drone of s; rgr-mpmP; which is too much of a AB than K to be able to detect kapi phrases. Tell me the time line where you hear it and i will shut my ears to the rest..

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 31 Oct 2009, 02:03

This is Kapi for sure - just a (somewhat) badly sung one though.

Listen to a rendition of Inta soukhya, then come back and listen to this tillana. You can find lots of similar phrases.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 31 Oct 2009, 03:24

r-t, up to 1:37 I can go with what you say. But beyond that there does not seem to be any question it is AB.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 31 Oct 2009, 04:14

Or parulanna mAta, as the expert pointed out.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 31 Oct 2009, 07:40

It seems kapi first part and Anandabhairavi at the end. I have a version of DKP singing this but strangely that version stops (as if she is really stopping the song), after the pallavi part i.e. before the Anandabhairavi part

To me, the first part of sangati of pallavi can perhaps be AB up to dhim.... - but the thi-ra-na part is very much kApi (arasi I believe the slide down to G2 from P w.r.t na of tirana is probably what you were referring to). The second (the way pa of the dhim is approached - i think from ni down to pa), and third sangati etc. are kapi only (more for 3rd than 2nd, 3rd indeed very similar to parulanna.

As far as I can discern, D1 doesnt figure in kApi part, and first time figures around 1:43 (tail end of naTarAjan... as well as a tinge in start of sabEsan)

Arun

hianusree · Post by **hianusree** » 31 Oct 2009, 11:13

HI

I here would like to clear my doubts.

Usually in kapi the anthara ga comes in picture, so in Ananda bhairavai( which is diferent either). But this tillana does not have an Antara ga that would be in kapi. But there are much traces of Ananda Bhairavi as you here over and again. please can you clear my doubts as to why it might be kapi??

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 31 Oct 2009, 21:49

I dont think this is kApi throughout (so more like ragamalika) - but I am not sure. kApi (bhashaanga versions) does use G3 more but that doesnt mean it completely replaces G2 everywhere - you can have sections that dont use it. Thus the first part seems like definitely kApi although why it is not Anandabhairavi is somewhat subtle. because more distinctive differences are perhaps not employed there in.

(I could be wrong here)
To my ears, the usage of the "thi ra na" part cannot-come-in or dont-seem-like Anandabhairavi (approxly g /p mg first time, np m/p mg second time) in particular the flatter ga as ending of a phrase (as opposite to perceptible kampita gamaka which is most common in Anandabhairavi and also can come in many other ragas kapi inclusive, and pa with ni as anuswara. Of course for the 3rd sangati seems more kapi because it reminds me of parulanna - but it is also a cumulative effect i.e. once I sense shades of kapi earlier, later ones would fit even if something could be common with other raga. It could be the opposite for others. But basically p with ni as anuswara, and slide down to ga and hold flat seem like the cue points.

Arun

hianusree · Post by **hianusree** » 31 Oct 2009, 22:39

Yes, may be the rendition was like that. I heard a clear version today ( the same tillana)in "Ananda bhairavai" in a flute recital by Shri.Sruti sagar. It was undoubtedly Anandabhairavi and there were no traces of Kapi there, not even a single sangati. the announcer was carried away by the rendition???

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Nov 2009, 06:25

TSI is not a haphazard composer.
The notes must be available in some book!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 01 Nov 2009, 19:31

I located a complete DKP/DKJ rendition of this. I had 2 versions one that had just the pallavi that I mentioned earlier, and this one. On a funny note, the raga labelling for the first one is kApi and the second one is Anandabhairavi. I do not know if I got it that way from someone, or that I had listened to it a while ago and concluded that the first one was kApi based on just the pallavi part, and second one was Anandabhairavi

This complete version does not seem to have much shades of kApi but then all of these may have been subliminal influence anyway!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ewozrp

So it looks it was Anandabhairavi only all along.

Arun

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 01 Nov 2009, 21:29

it is unadulterated aananda bhairavi

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Nov 2009, 22:09

Thanks Arun for the authentic AB.
But I still could not sense the Kapi in the original at the start. There is a mental block!
Could you filter the kApi (separating the AB cream) and present it

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Nov 2009, 22:35

CML, you are asking for trouble. You are doing well with not detecting any kApi. It was that way for me at first, but then I forced in the kApi interpretation and now I see kApi in every AB

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Nov 2009, 23:04

I can understand AB and RG; but AB and Kapi is puzzzling and interesting!
VK you are lucky to sense Kapi in every AB

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Nov 2009, 23:42

This is Halloween time and it is the kApi ghost infiltrating AB. I am sure I will be back to normal in a few days.

Before this kaPi thought being put into my head episode, these two ragas were quite apart for me.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Nov 2009, 00:27

Call it AnandaKapi and enjoy it

Ramesh Abhiraman · Post by **Ramesh Abhiraman** » 02 Nov 2009, 02:21

Enjoyed first hearing the DKP DKJ rendering of the Anandabhairavi thillana. Then I heard the sisters singing. Both indubitably ananda bhairavi through and through. Funny about the announcement bungle. Btw, thanks for the yeoman service of uploading all the Tillanas to sangeetamshare. I liked the Shankarabharanam as well.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Nov 2009, 03:03

mambalam sister's version is pretty much similar, so they got the bad rap in the early parts of this thread for mixing in kApi. We will have to then rephrase r-t's assessment: They are singing a real bad kApi but an excellent AB

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Nov 2009, 06:44

Shall we compromise and say Mishra AB

This will be the first mishra thillana in CM history