Is graha bhedam possible in vivadhi ragas. If yes then please I would like to know about it in detail with examples.
Also which is the easy raga for understanding the concept of graha bhedam for early learners like me.
Thanks in advance.
graha Bhedam
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
Member ramakriya has put together a Beginner's guide: http://neelanjana.wordpress.com/2008/12 ... ers-guide/
You can also search for 'graha' in the forum. There have been several threads on this interesting topic. I am not sure if your question about vivadhi ragas has been discussed or not, but you will find enough past discussions in the forum. But start with Ramakriya's beginner's guide.
You can also search for 'graha' in the forum. There have been several threads on this interesting topic. I am not sure if your question about vivadhi ragas has been discussed or not, but you will find enough past discussions in the forum. But start with Ramakriya's beginner's guide.
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
hianusree,
ramakriya will have to restore the video at his blog. I suggest you post a comment at this blog pointing this out. He may read this post and take care of it also.
In the mean time, listen to these two links. The raga rasika team has put together couple of episodes on this topic.
http://raagarasika.podbean.com/2008/11/ ... ha-bhedam/
http://raagarasika.podbean.com/2008/12/ ... ustration/
ramakriya will have to restore the video at his blog. I suggest you post a comment at this blog pointing this out. He may read this post and take care of it also.
In the mean time, listen to these two links. The raga rasika team has put together couple of episodes on this topic.
http://raagarasika.podbean.com/2008/11/ ... ha-bhedam/
http://raagarasika.podbean.com/2008/12/ ... ustration/
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ramakriya
- Posts: 1877
- Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05
hmm! I need to see what happened to that video I uploaded!
BTW, grahabhEda from vivAdi rAgas is definitely possible - Not much different from non vivAdi ragas. Always, the question is whether a rAga with valid svaras is possible of not.
A grahabheda from Gangeya bhooshani to Neetimati by BMK in one of his renditions of evvare ramayya comes to my mind.
-Ramakriya
BTW, grahabhEda from vivAdi rAgas is definitely possible - Not much different from non vivAdi ragas. Always, the question is whether a rAga with valid svaras is possible of not.
A grahabheda from Gangeya bhooshani to Neetimati by BMK in one of his renditions of evvare ramayya comes to my mind.
-Ramakriya
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hianusree
- Posts: 110
- Joined: 31 Jul 2008, 15:44
Hi ramakriya,
Thank you so much. I have tried to graha bhedam on some ragas. please you can see it here.
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dcqbbxfp_1fdhbpbgv
i hope its correct. please correct me if am wrong
Thank you so much. I have tried to graha bhedam on some ragas. please you can see it here.
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dcqbbxfp_1fdhbpbgv
i hope its correct. please correct me if am wrong
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ramakriya
- Posts: 1877
- Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 02:05
This one is a commercial recording - But don't remember the details now.Jigyaasa wrote:Could you pls upload this and provide a link if it isn't commercial? I would love to listen to it...ramakriya wrote:A grahabheda from Gangeya bhooshani to Neetimati by BMK in one of his renditions of evvare ramayya comes to my mind.
It was back in the cassette days - one side had evvarE rAmayya, and the other had gAnasudhArasamE and pavana tanaya (both compositions of BMK) in vivadi rAgas.
-Ramakriua
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Jim
- Posts: 21
- Joined: 08 Nov 2009, 04:00
I find the Graha Bhedam phenomenon fascinating but I am wondering if this technical marvel is a topic of controversy among the faithful.
By creating a raga inside another raga through a tonal shift and restructuring of intervals and a reassignment of function to pitches, does the artist reveal the exquisite beauty and new depths of the original raga hitherto unapparent to the listener, or does the artist reveal his craft, skill and perhaps cunning in being able to hijack a raga and make it do what he wants it to do? In the course of an indepth alapana, when Pantuvarali might be robbed of sa and pa, its linchpins, to turn it into the pentatonic Mohana with ga as the new sa, the effect is mind blowing, I must admit. And what is more alarming is the "re-entry" phase in which pa is brought back into fold, but now he is in the temporary role of a color swara, sounding as a minor third and fighting for dominance with his neighbor dha, who has been playing the bright major third role in Mohana. And Mohana's ga begins to morph from major to minor until sa comes back and grounds us back in Pantuvarali, all order restored.
See what can happen when both parents go out for the evening and leave the children unsupervised at home!
Do ragas take kindly to these forced relationships? Does Mohana really reside in Pantuvarali or is this just a conjuring trick? Are we trying to make them who we would like them to be, have we playfully found what is possible when the authority figures leave the room and we begin to think outside the box, or are we showing off at the expense of the integrity of the raga, or are all ragas (or perhaps just some ragas) secure enough that they can let us play this way, because in the end order will always be returned?
Help me understand the aesthetic. - Jim
By creating a raga inside another raga through a tonal shift and restructuring of intervals and a reassignment of function to pitches, does the artist reveal the exquisite beauty and new depths of the original raga hitherto unapparent to the listener, or does the artist reveal his craft, skill and perhaps cunning in being able to hijack a raga and make it do what he wants it to do? In the course of an indepth alapana, when Pantuvarali might be robbed of sa and pa, its linchpins, to turn it into the pentatonic Mohana with ga as the new sa, the effect is mind blowing, I must admit. And what is more alarming is the "re-entry" phase in which pa is brought back into fold, but now he is in the temporary role of a color swara, sounding as a minor third and fighting for dominance with his neighbor dha, who has been playing the bright major third role in Mohana. And Mohana's ga begins to morph from major to minor until sa comes back and grounds us back in Pantuvarali, all order restored.
See what can happen when both parents go out for the evening and leave the children unsupervised at home!
Do ragas take kindly to these forced relationships? Does Mohana really reside in Pantuvarali or is this just a conjuring trick? Are we trying to make them who we would like them to be, have we playfully found what is possible when the authority figures leave the room and we begin to think outside the box, or are we showing off at the expense of the integrity of the raga, or are all ragas (or perhaps just some ragas) secure enough that they can let us play this way, because in the end order will always be returned?
Help me understand the aesthetic. - Jim
Last edited by Jim on 21 Nov 2009, 22:10, edited 1 time in total.
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arunk
- Posts: 3424
- Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 21:41
My 2 cents:
> Does Mohana really reside in Pantuvarali or is this just a conjuring trick?
Strictly speaking no, because neither ragas are "truly defined" by just flat versions of their constituent notes - atleast not in the classical sense. As you know, the consitituent swaras in many ragas carry gamakas that must be employed to bring out the classical, carnatic flavor and these gamakas do not transpose "as-is" in almost all case like here. For example, when pantuvarali's ga becomes sa of mohanam, its ri (suddha-rishabham) becomes mohanam's dha. The gamakas that mohanam's dha takes (it can swing to sa) cannot not be the same as the gamakas the ri of pantuvarali can take. The latter is steady or slightly oscillatory - and doesn't (in no raga) swing as assertively to pantuvarali's ga as would be required for the equivalent of mohanam's da's swing with its sa.
Arun
> Does Mohana really reside in Pantuvarali or is this just a conjuring trick?
Strictly speaking no, because neither ragas are "truly defined" by just flat versions of their constituent notes - atleast not in the classical sense. As you know, the consitituent swaras in many ragas carry gamakas that must be employed to bring out the classical, carnatic flavor and these gamakas do not transpose "as-is" in almost all case like here. For example, when pantuvarali's ga becomes sa of mohanam, its ri (suddha-rishabham) becomes mohanam's dha. The gamakas that mohanam's dha takes (it can swing to sa) cannot not be the same as the gamakas the ri of pantuvarali can take. The latter is steady or slightly oscillatory - and doesn't (in no raga) swing as assertively to pantuvarali's ga as would be required for the equivalent of mohanam's da's swing with its sa.
Arun