We have all heard of different nadais correct?

mridangamkid · Post by **mridangamkid** » 02 Nov 2009, 07:57

But what about 33/8 time?

Granted this isn't Carnatic music, please pardon me this one time as I truly find this video remarkable. I know I am not as mathematically gifted as some of our members on this forum (I am looking at you vkv sir

), however one does not need to be a mathematician to appreciate this genius.

His name is Mathew Savage, and I happened to pass by this youtube video recently and figured why not share?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGD1gl0YtfM

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Nov 2009, 09:23

Very nice mk. Incredible virtuosity. I have heard about him in popular press. I found an NPR link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=17458931

He has particular form of autism. In his early days he could not tolerate any sound ( noise or music ) but completely turned it around to an extremely gifted musical mind.

You are right, you do not have to know the time signature stuff to appreciate the beautiful music he has composed to such an interesting rhythm.

This 33/8 is like a long form chapu like thalam. I was keeping time like the following and it fit the measure fine, but not sure if it follows the song structure.

seven groups of tha ka dhi mi followed by a tha ka tha ki ta, so 8 counts like Adi except the last one being a tha ka tha ki ta. In other words, it is chathusram for the first 7 beats and khandam for the 8th beat. ( the sub-beats are all same duration, so the khandam beat is longer in duration )

another way of counting that fits the songs is: 2 avarthanams of tisra triputa followed by one avarthanam of kanda chapu

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Nov 2009, 01:17

Mridangamkid,
I am truly flattered you are mentioning my name along with Mathew Savage who is in the same class as MAJOR COMPOSERS ALREADY!....I have been following him as well as several other AUTISTIC related persons because of various reasons esp. CREATIVITY whether its RAMANUJAN or EINSTEIN. For example there is a case in which the person heard Beethoven's NINTH & Mahler's SECOND JUST ONCE & was ABLE to reproduce EVERYTHING in the score RIGHTAWAY! That to me gave a FEEL for what the human BRAIN is capable of & is the cherished hope of DUMB BELLS like me who are aspiring to fathom & understand how EINSTEIN came up with General Theory of Relativity.... Even FEYNMAN has wondered about it!....If you have time pl see the 12 part series on BRAIN by CHARLIE ROSE in which BOTH Brain & Mind are explored. In your time it is claimed BOTH will be well understood! Wish I would be around!...VKV

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Nov 2009, 01:23

VK, You are correct in your analysis of 33/8!

tkb · Post by **tkb** » 04 Nov 2009, 09:25

mridangamkid,

Thanks for the link which is indeed very interesting and simply superb!

VK,

Thanks for the help with guidance on the thala structure.

iamkirinlemon · Post by **iamkirinlemon** » 21 Dec 2009, 07:56

If you just hear somebody say "33/8", it sounds very intimidating. The first time I listened to the video I didn't really understand what was going on ... the second time, though, I put it together.

There are two important points here to unlock the puzzle.

1) This is a *swing* rhythm. When he starts playing, the notes are not even in duration; they are 'LONG-short LONG-short LONG-short LONG-short'. To a Carnatic ear this may sound a bit like tisram (DHIN tha DHIN tha DHIN tha DHIN tha, where duration of DHIN is twice the duration of tha).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swung_note

2) He counts "one ... two ... two .. two .." at the beginning, twice. This is the main pulse. Keeping in mind that it's a swung beat, if you pay close attention you will find 14 beats in his count of "one ... two ... two .. two .." and twice that is 14*2 = 28. Finally, when he's actually playing, after the 2 14's, he tacks 5 on to the end and you get 28+5 = 33.

The whole song is structured around 14-14-5, including the improvisation. The drummer is of course dutifully enforcing this structure and holding everyone together.

If you want to really be picky, this structure has some issues because a swing beat makes more sense with an even number of beats (since you replace two evenly spaced beats with a LONG-short pair). For this reason, the 5's at the end of each 14-14-5 are always abrupt and break the flow of the song. Don't get me wrong though, it's still not easy to do and definitely fun to listen to!